Christianity

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]It did not add the rest of my post Said: I forgot to mention that I am not trying to change you (Lindsosaurus) either Just enjoying a nice/civil debate Which is rare around hereLindsosaurus

I feel ya! And in terms of what I am talking about, it is more about the existential human condition rather than evolution, ie, we are ultimately alone (only I alone can have my experiences, thoughts etc...you can be close to people but no one is you but you), we have complete freedom of choice (even when you feel you dont, you really do), we create our own meaning (ie life is essentially meaningless), and we are mortal. There is anxiety associated with all of these things thus we create defenses against this anxiety by finding ways to make meaning, fighting our mortality with the idea that we will live on in some other place, finding guidance for our choices and not feeling ultimately alone as God knows my exact experience. Humans are inherently good and tend to strive towards bettering themselves (self-actualization) thus many people gravitate towards things that promote all the good stuff you were talking about. (and really it tends to be adaptive to do those type of things) To me, Having an Ultimate Maker is a defense against the complete fear of the unknown and meaninglessness. Other people find it in causes, careers, family etc...

my parents r hindu , and i dont belive in fairy tale word " god " , and suppose if they ever get " say evidence " god like figure exist in the world ,even then i wont give a dam about it , let alone following some religion or praying to god for something or just praying Y_Y

startrizerg

Have you ever taken a course on grammar?

I'm not sure how I took anything out of context, but modern idea that faith is divorced from fact has nothing to do with how the NT defines faith. You seem to think it must mean 100% certainity, but it doens't have to. We can say it's quite probable, like we do for other ancient historical events.

[QUOTE="bsman00"]people dont come back from the dead... there is no proof in any book....clayron

Well yeah I already know you think that, but there's no point in starting the discussion until you answer whether you think it's okay that God has made the evidence avoidable.

Nothing can persuade me to become a christian. Even if concrete evidence is found, it's not enough to make me jump on the bandwagon.....tocool340

Nothing could persuade me.

Not even if God himself came down to Earth.

I dont look up to anyone or believe in anyone but myself.

roosuu

Why can nothing persuade you?

[QUOTE="MatrixSamurai27"]

If you aren't a Christian, what would persuade you to become one? Also, somewhat related, why are you not one?

clayron

Why someone is or is not something is no one's business but their own.

This. I wouldn't convert or convince anyone how to think, at least not in this country.

To the chagrin of my girlfriend's mother, there is absolutely nothing short of Jesus turning my pants into wine that would make me a Christian. And even then I wouldn't want to worship a God of any sort.

I'm not sure how I took anything out of context, but modern idea that faith is divorced from fact has nothing to do with how the NT defines faith. You seem to think it must mean 100% certainity, but it doens't have to. We can say it's quite probable, like we do for other ancient historical events.

MatrixSamurai27

I do not understand what you mean. Could you clarify it for me?

Why can nothing persuade you?

MatrixSamurai27

Some people are just as close-minded as they claim Christians are. I can understand wanting tangible evidence of God...in all accounts that is fairly reasonable for a person to want. But, if God personally approached you, introduces himself and shakes your hand you would still deny him? What is the reason for that? You have got the evidence. You have some tangible, what more is there to request?

To the chagrin of my girlfriend's mother, there is absolutely nothing short of Jesus turning my pants into wine that would make me a Christian. And even then I wouldn't want to worship a God of any sort.

foxhound_fox

See, I can understand this.

You would, in the case of pants to wine, of a divine existence and you would chose no to worship the divine entity. I can understand that.

However, with the previous poster I do not understand how you can have proof and not believe.

Nothing can persuade me to become a Christian. lexika

Failing to acknowledge the truth in the presence of irrefutable proof is the sign of a true fool.

Now I am not saying that there is irrefutable proof of God or any religion.

I am just saying that it is foolish to say NOTHING can make you believe in Anything.

It is important to keep an open mind about ALL things (even those that contradict what you beleive), to be able to accept new facts and be able to disregard things that are proven to be untrue.

Not taking sides, just playing devil's advocate

Nothing, besides God appearing before me, would make me believe in God. Even then though, I wouldn't worship him.

Nothing, besides God appearing before me, would make me believe in God. Even then though, I wouldn't worship him.

redstorm72

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

Nothing, besides God appearing before me, would make me believe in God. Even then though, I wouldn't worship him.

rawsavon

I don't think anyone, even the most hardcore athiest, could continue to deny the existence of God if he actually appeared in front of them. I'm more than willing to accept new facts. If I die then wake up floating in the clouds (or in a firey pit :D), I'll be the first one to say "huh, guess I was wrong", but until that time, I'll continue believe in what I can see, what I feel and what can be proven. Doesn't mean I don't have some spiritual belief's, just means I base them off of what I see around me. Your right though that some people are completly stubborn about these types of things. We may not all agree, but we should at least listen to eachother.

[QUOTE="lexika"]Nothing can persuade me to become a Christian. rawsavon

Failing to acknowledge the truth in the presence of irrefutable proof is the sign of a true fool.

Now I am not saying that there is irrefutable proof of God or any religion.

I am just saying that it is foolish to say NOTHING can make you believe in Anything.

It is important to keep an open mind about ALL things (even those that contradict what you beleive), to be able to accept new facts and be able to disregard things that are proven to be untrue.

Not taking sides, just playing devil's advocate

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="lexika"]Nothing can persuade me to become a Christian. lexika

Failing to acknowledge the truth in the presence of irrefutable proof is the sign of a true fool.

Now I am not saying that there is irrefutable proof of God or any religion.

I am just saying that it is foolish to say NOTHING can make you believe in Anything.

It is important to keep an open mind about ALL things (even those that contradict what you beleive), to be able to accept new facts and be able to disregard things that are proven to be untrue.

Not taking sides, just playing devil's advocate

I am not a Christian and I think the whole idea is quite ridiculous, nothing would convert me, even if a spirit appeared in front of me claiming to be Jesus, I would just ask him questions that Christians can't seem to answer and hope he goes away

to me, Christianity is a joke

and there is absolutely nothing on this earth that could get me to become one

i try to respect other peoples beliefs, and for the most part i do

but sometimes i cant help myself from laughing

oh, and im not atheist, agnostic, or affiliated with any religion or generalized belief system

i believe in god in my own way

[QUOTE="clayron"]

I'm not sure how I took anything out of context, but modern idea that faith is divorced from fact has nothing to do with how the NT defines faith. You seem to think it must mean 100% certainity, but it doens't have to. We can say it's quite probable, like we do for other ancient historical events.

[QUOTE="bsman00"]people dont come back from the dead... there is no proof in any book....MatrixSamurai27

Well yeah I already know you think that, but there's no point in starting the discussion until you answer whether you think it's okay that God has made the evidence avoidable.

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Do i think GOD has made the evidence avoidable? i dont get what you mean by that....please explain more....

What specific points of my statement are you not understanding?

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]To the chagrin of my girlfriend's mother, there is absolutely nothing short of Jesus turning my pants into wine that would make me a Christian. And even then I wouldn't want to worship a God of any sort. clayron

I would become a Christian if Jesus or Gabriel came down into my apartment and told me verbatim "Become a christian my son. I'm for real."guynamedbilly

Nothing, besides God appearing before me, would make me believe in God. Even then though, I wouldn't worship him.redstorm72

The problem is that these standards of proof for belief are too high. First of all, they make belief in God unavoidable, so then God doesn't have an avenue to test us to see if we really are truth seeking. Second, miracles aren't part of the "normal" operations of the universe so to speak. They need to be rare for several reasons. Finally, historians don't require that something in the past actually be seen by people today in order for it to be considered historical.

Nothing can persuade me to become a Christian. lexika

Why?

I am not a Christian and I think the whole idea is quite ridiculous, nothing would convert me, even if a spirit appeared in front of me claiming to be Jesus, I would just ask him questions that Christians can't seem to answer and hope he goes awayJunglemanchiId

Why is it ridiculous?

to me, Christianity is a jokei-rock-socks

Why?

wow, TC's name. Matrix, awesome Samurai, awsome 27, my favourite number. I think I love you.-eddy-

Err, what? Who is TC?

Do i think GOD has made the evidence avoidable? i dont get what you mean by that....please explain more....bsman00

See my replies above in my last post. If you want a standard of proof like them, then I won't waste my time.

To the chagrin of my girlfriend's mother, there is absolutely nothing short of Jesus turning my pants into wine that would make me a Christian. And even then I wouldn't want to worship a God of any sort. foxhound_fox

I would become a Christian if Jesus or Gabriel came down into my apartment and told me verbatim "Become a christian my son. I'm for real."guynamedbilly

Nothing, besides God appearing before me, would make me believe in God. Even then though, I wouldn't worship him.redstorm72

Also, why you would you then not worship Him?

Also, why you would you then not worship Him?

MatrixSamurai27

It's probably related to how the character of Yaweh is presented in the old testament, or that they are just not the kind of people who would worship. (like me)

I will never become a Christian. It would contradict everything I stand for.

[QUOTE="MatrixSamurai27"]Also, why you would you then not worship Him?

_Tobli_

It's probably related to how the character of Yaweh is presented in the old testament, or that they are just not the kind of people who would worship. (like me)

Why wouldn't you even it's true? Do you not care about what is true and what isn't?MatrixSamurai27

I didn't say that i wouldn't acknowledge the validity of the christian faith if someone was able to prove it. How i respond to it is a completely different matter.

Jesus Christ to come to my front door and turn a bahtub of water into some high-end wine for me to drink.. then and only then will i convert to christianity.

It would take something really special to make me believe in God..... I can't even think of a senario that would result in me believing in any faith.

I don't believe in God because much like most people living in the Eu we read the bible and decided that it was full of hypocrisy, incosistancies and ideas stolen from various religions. Tbf in the Uk 1.2 million people attend church on average each week 2% of the population, more people actually attend football games in the Uk than church.

It would take something really special to make me believe in God..... I can't even think of a senario that would result in me believing in any faith.

I don't believe in God because much like most people living in the Eu we read the bible and decided that it was full of hypocrisy, incosistancies and ideas stolen from various religions. Tbf in the Uk 1.2 million people attend church on average each week 2% of the population, more people actually attend football games in the Uk than church.

muff07

Nothing could persuade me to become one. Because its completely impossible for me to believe that the ridiculously contradictory 2000 year old book that christians use as the basis of their faith is true... Darth-Caedus

And those contradictions are? However, contradictions don't automatically take away from historicity anyway.

I didn't say that i wouldn't acknowledge the validity of the christian faith if someone was able to prove it. How i respond to it is a completely different matter.

_Tobli_

I was asking why you would respond that way even if you accepted it's validity.

Also, to the people who keep saying they need a personal appearance or something similar, it would be good for discussion if you actually interacted with what I said about why that's a stupid standard of proof and not done in scholarly circles with regard to historical events.

Well nothing. Even with the most free interpretation of scripture, to me Christianity has some teachings with which I dont agree, and even if by said interpretation, their obsolete ideas are "soothened" a bit.

I'm already beginning to doubt the overall intelligence of this community. -.-ThePiousAeneas

Nothing would ever convince me to belive in such things. Christianity and the bible are responsibe for keeping astronomy from advancing for 1500 years, slavers in america during the 1700-1800s used the bible to justify enslaving blacks, and the bible gave Hitler insperation to kill 6 million innocent people.

I was asking why you would respond that way even if you accepted it's validity.MatrixSamurai27

Well that is because it's not in my nature to do those sorts of things, and the fact that it is Yaweh makes the prospect that much less appealing.

http://www.evilbible.com/

[QUOTE="MatrixSamurai27"]I was asking why you would respond that way even if you accepted it's validity._Tobli_

Well that is because it's not in my nature to do those sorts of things, and the fact that it is Yaweh makes the prospect that much less appealing.

http://www.evilbible.com

Yeah, it's not in anyone's nature to worship God. It's called total depravity. I will deal with some of the website's claims, but I must say that website's claims are atrociously dumb and they obviously haven't done their research on the Ancient Near East, which is required before making judgments on the morality in the OT. So which claim of it would you like me to talk about first?

[QUOTE="i-rock-socks"]to me, Christianity is a jokeMatrixSamurai27

Why?

if you want to be taken seriously, then you shouldnt multi-quote EVERY single person who OBVIOUSLY doesnt share your views

and if your not even gonna try and come up with any legitimate questions, then the only thing ive got to say to you is

"why not"

[QUOTE="_Tobli_"]

[QUOTE="MatrixSamurai27"]Also, why you would you then not worship Him?

MatrixSamurai27

It's probably related to how the character of Yaweh is presented in the old testament, or that they are just not the kind of people who would worship. (like me)

After a short google search of the average attendances of the English football league and all the leagues with records in the Uk (Scotland,Northern Ireland and Wales) the Uk's known football attneding population is2.1 million people almost double the amount going to church.

How I love the country I live in :P

Also for the guy looking for reasons how the bibles inconsistant read Issiah 17:1 It says damascus will become a heap of ruins, Ironically Damascus is one of the oldest contiuosly inhabited cities on earth.

Also, to the people who keep saying they need a personal appearance or something similar, it would be good for discussion if you actually interacted with what I said about why that's a stupid standard of proof and not done in scholarly circles with regard to historical events.MatrixSamurai27

[QUOTE="MatrixSamurai27"]Also, to the people who keep saying they need a personal appearance or something similar, it would be good for discussion if you actually interacted with what I said about why that's a stupid standard of proof and not done in scholarly circles with regard to historical events.guynamedbilly

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"][QUOTE="MatrixSamurai27"]Also, to the people who keep saying they need a personal appearance or something similar, it would be good for discussion if you actually interacted with what I said about why that's a stupid standard of proof and not done in scholarly circles with regard to historical events.InsaneGamer323

[QUOTE="lexika"]Nothing can persuade me to become a Christian. MatrixSamurai27

After a short google search of the average attendances of the English football league and all the leagues with records in the Uk (Scotland,Northern Ireland and Wales) the Uk's known football attneding population is2.1 million people almost double the amount going to church.

How I love the country I live in :P

Also for the guy looking for reasons how the bibles inconsistant read Issiah 17:1 It says damascus will become a heap of ruins, Ironically Damascus is one of the oldest contiuosly inhabited cities on earth.

I was raised Christian but I never went to church much or felt any real connection to the religeon. So when I had some moral problems with the bible's teachings I saw no reason to defend it and dropped it.

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"][QUOTE="MatrixSamurai27"]Also, to the people who keep saying they need a personal appearance or something similar, it would be good for discussion if you actually interacted with what I said about why that's a stupid standard of proof and not done in scholarly circles with regard to historical events.InsaneGamer323