Court Upholds Religious School's Right to Expel Actively Lesbian Students

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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#151 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts
It annoys me when people say that homosexuality isn't a choice. While I do agree that homosexuality, much like heterosexuality may very well not be a choice, that doesn't give them an excuse to not take part in abstinence. Heterosexuals do it, so I don't see why homosexuals can't. It's as though they're excused to have sex but heterosexuals aren't.
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hoola

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#152 hoola
Member since 2004 • 6422 Posts

74yes, 73 no. that is actually very close. I voted yes because i don't like the government telling organizations and businesses who to accept as a customer.

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LJS9502_basic

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#153 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180098 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Actually because a public school is funded by tax dollars and has to accept students. Many public schools have been sued because parents and children were offended.:|

Famiking

Hence, why I wrote "does/would do. You can't say the system is wrong when you didn't even do it right ;)

Does/would does not change the fact that public schools get sued. Does/would does not change the fact that the state has to educate all students within an age range and without tuition payments. ;)

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Famiking

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#154 Famiking
Member since 2009 • 4879 Posts
It annoys me when people say that homosexuality isn't a choice. While I do agree that homosexuality, much like heterosexuality may very well not be a choice, that doesn't give them an excuse to not take part in abstinence. Heterosexuals do it, so I don't see why homosexuals can't. It's as though they're excused to have sex but heterosexuals aren't.Genetic_Code
Why can't heterosexuals have sex either? Heck, in the last thread people were FOR a heterosexual where a young male was banned from going to his girlfriend's prom by his religious school.
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Link256

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#155 Link256
Member since 2005 • 29195 Posts

Private schools have the right to refuse enrollment. Public schools do not.

LJS9502_basic

/thread

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Famiking

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#156 Famiking
Member since 2009 • 4879 Posts

[QUOTE="Famiking"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Actually because a public school is funded by tax dollars and has to accept students. Many public schools have been sued because parents and children were offended.:|

LJS9502_basic

Hence, why I wrote "does/would do. You can't say the system is wrong when you didn't even do it right ;)

Does/would does not change the fact that public schools get sued. Does/would does not change the fact that the state has to educate all students within an age range and without tuition payments. ;)

If you're getting sued then something is broken or not working the way it's supposed to.
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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#158 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts
[QUOTE="Famiking"]Why can't heterosexuals have sex either? Heck, in the last thread people were FOR a heterosexual where a young male was banned from going to his girlfriend's prom by his religious school.

I don't know of the thread you type of (type of? or is it speak of?), but if they weren't actively engaging in sex, then I see no problem with it.

74yes, 73 no. that is actually very close. I voted yes because i don't like the government telling organizations and businesses who to accept as a customer.

hoola
I'm surprised it's not 90:10. This really is an easy choice. A child who is responsible for their own actions were caught doing something against the school's code of conduct. Why. Isn't. The school. Allowed. To. Discriminate? It's not the taking of someone's life. It's a sensible practice. If there were some school meant for only gays, and if the reverse were to happen, I would assume that a large sum of those that voted "no" in this poll would have voted "yes" in the other poll.
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mindstorm

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#159 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

[QUOTE="mindstorm"] But my school does not limit itself to the "this is what we think" approach. We look at all of the sides... not just one side. We then come to the conclusions ourselves. Personally, I find that to be true education, not simply a "religious education."Famiking
Then why do you get expelled for pre-marital sex? That doesn't sound like looking at all sides to me... I still don't see where it would harm religion if all schools were non-religious but religious courses were offered to those that want them.

There is a difference between teaching all sides and living all sides. :wink: I'd rather go to a religious school because the school itself will hold a united belief and principle. If you understood just how passionate I am about my university, seminary, and professors then you'd know why there is a need for a religious education. Not only do my professors teach religion but they believe it. I have many times seen professors break down when teaching topics such as the doctrine of the atonement. I absolutely love it and would not be able to have that experience in a secular education. Also, these same professors will have Bible studies at their houses and care not only about their knowledge but spiritual and emotional lives. I love it.

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deactivated-5df4e79c309ad

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#160 deactivated-5df4e79c309ad
Member since 2005 • 6045 Posts
Private club has club rules, forum has forum rules, private school has its own rules. Government is not going to regulate Gamespot if a mod ban you for life. You can make your own club and discriminate whoever you like and you will win all class law suit. That's freedom. Private restaurants still holds right to refuse serve people they don't like.magicalclick
That's a good point. I wonder how the Gamespot owners would feel if the government forced them to have their TOS conform to the U.S. First Amendment governing freedom of speech?
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LJS9502_basic

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#161 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180098 Posts

If you're getting sued then something is broken or not working the way it's supposed to.Famiking
Not necessarily. Parents don't think their children should follow rules....have you not followed the news when school districts are getting sued?

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Wings_008

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#162 Wings_008
Member since 2008 • 3813 Posts

the school is right, after all the school can not be a catholic school if it tolorated that case

and homosexuality isnt a choice but its not like they have the right to do it anywhere

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Famiking

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#163 Famiking
Member since 2009 • 4879 Posts

If you're getting sued then something is broken or not working the way it's supposed to.LJS9502_basic
Not necessarily. Parents don't think their children should follow rules....have you not followed the news when school districts are getting sued?

It's probably because the rules are mundane or offensive.
I don't know of the thread you type of (type of? or is it speak of?), but if they weren't actively engaging in sex, then I see no problem with it.Genetic_Code
They were going against the school rules, which was your only basis.

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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#164 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts

They were going against the school rules, which was your only basis.

Famiking
It depends if it were public or private. I should've asked that first.
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willtsherman

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#165 willtsherman
Member since 2007 • 667 Posts

omg, LOL, ahahahahahahah:lol::D:lol::D:lol:

who cares? I don't.

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Famiking

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#166 Famiking
Member since 2009 • 4879 Posts
[QUOTE="Famiking"]

They were going against the school rules, which was your only basis.

Genetic_Code
It depends if it were public or private. I should've asked that first.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26875426&page=0 Private Baptist fundamentalist school
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LostProphetFLCL

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#167 LostProphetFLCL
Member since 2006 • 18526 Posts

Wow, what bigotry, this is a step away from banning people from a school because of their skin color.

I really wonder what caused the hatred of gays that the OP has, pretty much every thread I see posted by him shows that he dislikes gays. I can only guess between some odd comlex or maybe a family history of bigotry against various minorities, but either way, Jemdude, grow up, your attitudes towards people who don't think exactly like you, are pathetic and just make Christians look bad.

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hamstergeddon

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#168 hamstergeddon
Member since 2006 • 7188 Posts
I do. Lesbians shouldn't even be in a school that condemns their sexuality to begin with. That's why we have private vs. public schools to begin with. So all the racist, intolerant bigots can hide in their private schools, separated from mainstream society.
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Trinners

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#169 Trinners
Member since 2009 • 2537 Posts

Hai kids.

The contituion gives us the right to RELIGIOUS BELIEFS not BEHAVIOUR.

They can think lesbians are abominations but they can't act any further on that.

The school is in the wrong here.

/thread

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BR1NG3R

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#170 BR1NG3R
Member since 2006 • 1530 Posts

This is discrimination for sexual orientation.

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limpbizkit818

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#171 limpbizkit818
Member since 2004 • 15044 Posts
A private school has the right to choose who does and does not attend its classes.
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scfan3

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#172 scfan3
Member since 2004 • 3325 Posts

A private school has the right to choose who does and does not attend its classes.limpbizkit818
Yep, I went to a private school for 7 years (middle and high school). If you don't like the rules then talk to your parents and get out of there, otherwise follow the rules. At my school you had to sign a contract EVERY year stating you understood the handbook.

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#173 limpbizkit818
Member since 2004 • 15044 Posts

I don't see why we should have religious schools in the first place, why don't we just ban them. I mean, you should be allowed to take a religious class if you want, but a religious school is just a breeding ground for intolerance.Religious schools should be illegal.Famiking

You sound just as intolerant as the religious schools you wish to outlaw.

You cry for the schools to be open minded while in the same breath ask for them to be made illegal when they hold a different viewpoint. Awesome double standard.

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#174 Famiking
Member since 2009 • 4879 Posts

[QUOTE="Famiking"]I don't see why we should have religious schools in the first place, why don't we just ban them. I mean, you should be allowed to take a religious class if you want, but a religious school is just a breeding ground for intolerance.Religious schools should be illegal.limpbizkit818

You sound just as intolerant as the religious schools you wish to outlaw.

You cry for the schools to be open minded while in the same breath ask for them to be made illegal when they hold a different viewpoint. Awesome double standard.

Huh? What different viewpoint? I'm religious myself.....

Except I don't want people to be discriminated based on their sexual orientation. If this is the sort of thing that kids will learn, then schools like these should be outlawed, like I said they breed intolerance.

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nwonknU

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#175 nwonknU
Member since 2004 • 122 Posts

The decision is wrong and only promotes more bigotry, but it is indeed a private Christian school, so it's not unexpected. Thankfully, homophobia is on the decline as more and more people are coming to the realization that their ancient point-of-view, and blind faith, shouldn't rule the lives of others. It wasn't so long ago that African-Americans weren't equal in many aspects of American life, but that changed, and so will the issue of accepting homosexuality.

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789shadow

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#176 789shadow
Member since 2006 • 20195 Posts

They got it right. Private organizations have the right to make their own rules and expel anyone who refuses to follow them.

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Silenthps

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#177 Silenthps
Member since 2006 • 7302 Posts
the school should have every right to purge their school from sinners imo. otherwise, sins like that would spread like a disease.
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#178 nwonknU
Member since 2004 • 122 Posts
the school should have every right to purge their school from sinners imo. otherwise, sins like that would spread like a disease.Silenthps
Your viewpoint of purging the "sinners" from school only adds to the bigotry, hate, and discrimination against gays and lesbians. Why stop at school? Might as well purge them from society as a whole, for simply being who they are.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#179 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
Well its a private school, though if they expel students for things OUTSIDE of school (not on school property).. I would think it as descrimination, they should only be able to uphold their rules with in the school.. So on one hand I hate what they are doing, they are still privately funded and can do it.. But as long as they do it based on events occuring with in school.. And not outside it.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#180 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
the school should have every right to purge their school from sinners imo. otherwise, sins like that would spread like a disease.Silenthps
Which is ironic because bigotry is a far worse disease you seem to be well intunned with.. Bigotry has caused far worse things in history than gays, nice try though..
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#181 greenprince
Member since 2006 • 3332 Posts

[QUOTE="matenmoe"]

Another item about this- The girls were knowingly enrolled in a school that did not support their sexual preference. Why go where they weren't wanted, blow mom and dad's tuition $$,and their own education, by risking getting caught? I really can't feel sorry for them being foolhardy.

Famiking

You act as if they choose to go there, seriously who would CHOOSE to go to a religious school?

I went to a Catholic High school for one year through my own personal decision. I wasn't even a Christian at the time, and it wasn't that bad.:| You make it seem like going to a religious school is the most horrible thing in the world.

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scfan3

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#182 scfan3
Member since 2004 • 3325 Posts

[QUOTE="Famiking"][QUOTE="matenmoe"]

Another item about this- The girls were knowingly enrolled in a school that did not support their sexual preference. Why go where they weren't wanted, blow mom and dad's tuition $$,and their own education, by risking getting caught? I really can't feel sorry for them being foolhardy.

greenprince

You act as if they choose to go there, seriously who would CHOOSE to go to a religious school?

I went to a Catholic High school for one year through my own personal decision. I wasn't even a Christian at the time, and it wasn't that bad.:| You make it seem like going to a religious school is the most horrible thing in the world.

I know, I hated going to that Christian school I went to but I decided to keep going thinking it would get better and I'm glad I went there based on what I got out of it. Religious schools are not horrible places.....
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danwallacefan

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#183 danwallacefan
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts

its not just the religious freedom of the school, its about the property rights of the school. Yes I absolutely agree with the court's ruling.

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T_P_O

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#184 T_P_O
Member since 2008 • 5388 Posts

its not just the religious freedom of the school, its about the property rights of the school. Yes I absolutely agree with the court's ruling.

danwallacefan
Have a heart at least...
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MattUD1

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#185 MattUD1
Member since 2004 • 20715 Posts
It annoys me when people say that homosexuality isn't a choice. While I do agree that homosexuality, much like heterosexuality may very well not be a choice, that doesn't give them an excuse to not take part in abstinence. Heterosexuals do it, so I don't see why homosexuals can't. It's as though they're excused to have sex but heterosexuals aren't.Genetic_Code
You are talking about sexual behavior, not sexuality.
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deactivated-5d0e4d67d0988

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#186 deactivated-5d0e4d67d0988
Member since 2008 • 5396 Posts

Religion:1

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kiniky

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#187 kiniky
Member since 2009 • 309 Posts
cant you skip the religious part? my cousins are muslim and they went to a catholic school.
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majoras_wrath

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#188 majoras_wrath
Member since 2005 • 6062 Posts
the school should have every right to purge their school from sinners imo. otherwise, sins like that would spread like a disease.Silenthps
I wouldn't mind purging all bigots from the earth. Otherwise, hate speech could spread like a disease. I'm bigoted against bigots.
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#189 matenmoe
Member since 2004 • 1238 Posts

My prep high school was founded by catholic nuns. It now has a national 'Ivy League high school' reputation-people want to educate their kids there. It was not this way when I went there in theearly 80's.I now know no less than6 homosexuals were my classmates then. This was before homosexuality became a political issue, and they didn't openly admit to homosexuality. As they believed it their own personal business, not some government faction's. the reason I went there was to avoid the bulls**t I'd seen my older brothers endure in the public schools at the time. Mom and dad being public school teachers, wanted me to think about going to a private school where the BS was able to be disciplined out, unlike the places they were teaching.

This catholic foundation school also had 3 muslims as my classmates, and even 2 jewish students. Due to their religious varieties, they were not required to attend religious school functions with the rest of us- althougha fewdid anyway, curious about the preceedings. I remember talking to these other religion members about their religions during lunch.It was pretty cool to learn first hand. Neither side got converted to the other-we weren't into that. Nobody got discriminated against in any record public or school wise. The student body was made up of already intelligent students as a requirement to entrance, afterall. I was never forced into learning intolerance by any of the administration there. Good folks ran the place, still do. I was bright enough not to buy intolerance even when it was sold- part of that was due to my religion. (I followed Christ in the bible, not thefew bigotsin the school).

I have no bigotry (that I know of-although some here will prove I do) against homosexuals, muslims or jews as many posts here think I should have learned -by being a private school preppy. Incidentally, my father actually worked a second job to pay my tuition there-so I am not a rich snob, either. I have since fallen from the constant practice of my religion. But this is my issue-never the school's or anyone else's. I support private, religious, and prepatory schools to this date. To have only someone else's choice is also to not have my own choice. Let the individual human decide a belief for themself, never let the majority force descions upon that individual where a belief is concerned.

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homegirl2180

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#190 homegirl2180
Member since 2004 • 7161 Posts
I wholeheartedly agree the court's decision. The school is privately-run, and as such can make its own rules that the enrolling students agree to follow. The government doesn't have a right to stick its nose in this. (Most) Christian schools make students sign a School Code of sorts and warns them that disobedience of this Code can result in such and such action. They agreed to it, they broke the rules, and they were summarily expelled. Nothing wrong there.
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LastResortCooki

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#191 LastResortCooki
Member since 2009 • 160 Posts

Most people here don't understand the difference between rules and intolerance. Just because a school enforces rules, especially moral rules, does not make it bad. In fact, it makes it superior to all other schools for having higher standards.ShortMonkey1

Moral rules; wat they are doing is promoting discrimination of people with different sexual orientations. Thats not higher moral standards, thats pure discrimination. And anyways most of the rules set in the bible are taught everywhere because they are the basis for good behaviour. Probably only useful thing the bible ever did.

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deactivated-5df4e79c309ad

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#192 deactivated-5df4e79c309ad
Member since 2005 • 6045 Posts

Some people here have accused the school of hatred and bigotry, but that is simply not true. An organization can restrict the type of people they allow in depending on the audience they are trying to reach. For example, a Japanese association (or any other ethnic association for that matter) is only going to accept as members, people who have a connection to the Japanese heritage. They are not going to be inclusive and accept every "Tom, Dick and Harry" who signs up. Does that mean that they hate non-Japanese people? Of course not. The same thing goes for a private Christian school. They are primarily there for the Christians of their particular denomination and want to promote a Christian lifestyle to all students. It is not for everybody of every lifestyle and every religion. That doesn't mean that they hate such people. It's degisned for a Christian audience and promote the Christian lifestyle.

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Famiking

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#193 Famiking
Member since 2009 • 4879 Posts
They don't have Japanese schools that only allow Japanese people though...
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LastResortCooki

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#194 LastResortCooki
Member since 2009 • 160 Posts

Some people here have accused the school of hatred and bigotry, but that is simply not true. An organization can restrict the type of people they allow in depending on the audience they are trying to reach. For example, a Japanese association (or any other ethnic association for that matter) is only going to accept as members, people who have a connection to the Japanese heritage. They are not going to be inclusive and accept every "Tom, Dick and Harry" who signs up. Does that mean that they hate non-Japanese people? Of course not. The same thing goes for a private Christian school. They are primarily there for the Christians of their particular denomination and want to promote a Christian lifestyle to all students. It is not for everybody of every lifestyle and every religion. That doesn't mean that they hate such people. It's degisned for a Christian audience and promote the Christian lifestyle.

Jemdude

Yes i realise that, ive never read the bible, but i cannot beleive it actively promotes discrimination about lesbians....Maybe the girls were christians, WHAT IS THAT SCHOOL'S RIGHT TO DENY CHRISTIANS ENTRY just because of their sexual orientation. If the girls said they definitively weren't christians, i'd understand, but since they din't....

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wendt360

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#195 wendt360
Member since 2009 • 324 Posts

i think that if ur a lesbian u should be expelled

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CardiacKid07

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#196 CardiacKid07
Member since 2007 • 1225 Posts
If they are completely self-funded than while i do not like it they should be allowed. However if they recieve any kind of state or federal funding or aid than in that case I think they should not be allowed to just call the shots like that.mattykovax
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#197 LostProphetFLCL
Member since 2006 • 18526 Posts

[QUOTE="Jemdude"]

Some people here have accused the school of hatred and bigotry, but that is simply not true. An organization can restrict the type of people they allow in depending on the audience they are trying to reach. For example, a Japanese association (or any other ethnic association for that matter) is only going to accept as members, people who have a connection to the Japanese heritage. They are not going to be inclusive and accept every "Tom, Dick and Harry" who signs up. Does that mean that they hate non-Japanese people? Of course not. The same thing goes for a private Christian school. They are primarily there for the Christians of their particular denomination and want to promote a Christian lifestyle to all students. It is not for everybody of every lifestyle and every religion. That doesn't mean that they hate such people. It's degisned for a Christian audience and promote the Christian lifestyle.

LastResortCooki

Yes i realise that, ive never read the bible, but i cannot beleive it actively promotes discrimination about lesbians....Maybe the girls were christians, WHAT IS THAT SCHOOL'S RIGHT TO DENY CHRISTIANS ENTRY just because of their sexual orientation. If the girls said they definitively weren't christians, i'd understand, but since they din't....

well, there's nothing in the bible that really actively discriminates against gays, but remember, Christians once used the bible to justify slavery, even though there's nothing in the bible saying slavery is acceptable....

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Solid_Snake325

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#198 Solid_Snake325
Member since 2006 • 6091 Posts
Wow the poll is quite evenly divided.
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chessmaster1989

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#199 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts
From a legal standpoint, I guess I agree with the court's decision. From an ethical standpoint, I think it's absolutely horrible that the school would do that.
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LJS9502_basic

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#200 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180098 Posts

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]the school should have every right to purge their school from sinners imo. otherwise, sins like that would spread like a disease.majoras_wrath
I wouldn't mind purging all bigots from the earth. Otherwise, hate speech could spread like a disease. I'm bigoted against bigots.

So you are for censorship?