Crazy thought i just had...(religion)

[QUOTE="123625"]

When i see a whale give birth to a cow. I'll beleive you.

Also the only religion causing Holy wars is Radical Islam.

NSR34GTR

its clear you dont know the first thing about islam. the US invaded iraq for WMD and found nothing. now who created the war?

Obviously you muslims connot comprehend this language called english

I said and clearly stated RADICAL ISLAM!

I thought by now with how much we know in science that religion should have died off already.C_Town_Soul

Our understanding is very limited. We know very little about our own brains.

[QUOTE="123625"]

When i see a whale give birth to a cow. I'll beleive you.

Also the only religion causing Holy wars is Radical Islam.

NSR34GTR

its clear you dont know the first thing about islam. the US invaded iraq for WMD and found nothing. now who created the war?

Not to get off topic, that wasnt over religion, that was over a possible threat to our nation. And hey, even though Saddam probally moved the weapons out of the country, we are still find stashes and baried weapons in the ground, who says we havent dug in the right spot yet?

Sorry I dont want to get off subject here

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="SonKev"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]Thats where science (theory) ulitmately fails, when it tells me we came from a rock, I am not afraid to say. We have never seen this primordial soup coming from dead matter and never will.

And if Evolution can't give a solid foudation for how life began how can we beleive in any of it?

domatron23

Evolution=/=origin of life

You're right, the big bang is. the big bang leads to evolution,(which basically is chapter1 of evolution) so if the big bang is broken...oh man are you screwed.

What does the big bang have to do with anything? Evolution is just a change in inherited traits in a poplation of organisms over time. There doesn't have to be a naturalistic origin of life in order for evolution to be true. How life began is beyond the point here.

And because Evolution doesnt have a solid foundation for how life began how are we to trust it? All it gives us is abiogenesis which is so stupid (in my opinion)

Evolution does not need a solid foundation for the beginning of life. It doesn't matter if abiogenesis or the flying spaghetti monster's noodly appendage was responsible for life, all that matters is that this life is subject to change in inherited traits over time.

Partially why i don't trust evolution. A begining defines an end. You seem to skip the begining completely saying its not important when it is one of the most crucial.

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="SonKev"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]Thats where science (theory) ulitmately fails, when it tells me we came from a rock, I am not afraid to say. We have never seen this primordial soup coming from dead matter and never will.

And if Evolution can't give a solid foudation for how life began how can we beleive in any of it?

123625

Evolution=/=origin of life

You're right, the big bang is. the big bang leads to evolution,(which basically is chapter1 of evolution) so if the big bang is broken...oh man are you screwed.

What does the big bang have to do with anything? Evolution is just a change in inherited traits in a poplation of organisms over time. There doesn't have to be a naturalistic origin of life in order for evolution to be true. How life began is beyond the point here.

And because Evolution doesnt have a solid foundation for how life began how are we to trust it? All it gives us is abiogenesis which is so stupid (in my opinion)

Evolution does not need a solid foundation for the beginning of life. It doesn't matter if abiogenesis or the flying spaghetti monster's noodly appendage was responsible for life, all that matters is that this life is subject to change in inherited traits over time.

Partially why i don't trust evolution. A begining defines an end. You seem to skip the begining completely saying its not important when it is one of the most crucial.

jesus isn't the real lord. He was born from Mary, right, no father. People thought she commited adultury.

when jesus was born, the people were amazed, because he began to speak. He said that if adam was born without any parents and eve was created from his ribs, why can't you believe i have no father?

Allah is jesus creator.

On the day of judgement, the sun will be brought above our heads, and people will drown in their sweat, its height depending on their sins.

50 000 angels will be dragging hell before all of humanity, and if one angel let go of a chain, hell will be released on all of us. Hell begins to speak and says it is hungry for the disbelievers. Truely, it is a horrific sight.

then people turn to the prophets of Allah.

they first go to Adam and ask him for help.

adam tells them move away from me, move away from me, how can i help you when allah has created me like he created you?

today allah is angrier than he ever was and ever will be, and i ate from the tree so how can i face allah?

then they move to other prophets and the same thing is said, but with their sins until they reach jesus.

jesus tells them the same thing, get away from me and allah is at his peak of anger.

he says how can i face allah when people have worshipped me rather than him.

do you see this? Jesus is afraid that he will be punished as a result of christianity. turn to islam before it is too late.

After that, jesus sends the people to muhammad, and he prostrates to allah, along with the believers. Allah comes forward to us and the sky turns black. Those who didn't belive in him AND HIS MESSENGER will fall flat on their faces. For those who think you only need to worship ANY GOD AND YOU'LL BE FINE YOU ARE WRONG!!

then the sky turns black and books start falling, with every deed people have committed and the judging begins.

Allah tells the people there is no death, and this is their place for eternity.

inshaalah, we will all be in heaven

jesus isn't the real lord. He was born from Mary, right, no father. People thought she commited adultury.

when jesus was born, the people were amazed, because he began to speak. He said that if adam was born without any parents and eve was created from his ribs, why can't you believe i have no father?

Allah is jesus creator.

On the day of judgement, the sun will be brought above our heads, and people will drown in their sweat, its height depending on their sins.

50 000 angels will be dragging hell before all of humanity, and if one angel let go of a chain, hell will be released on all of us. Hell begins to speak and says it is hungry for the disbelievers. Truely, it is a horrific sight.

then people turn to the prophets of Allah.

they first go to Adam and ask him for help.

adam tells them move away from me, move away from me, how can i help you when allah has created me like he created you?

today allah is angrier than he ever was and ever will be, and i ate from the tree so how can i face allah?

then they move to other prophets and the same thing is said, but with their sins until they reach jesus.

jesus tells them the same thing, get away from me and allah is at his peak of anger.

he says how can i face allah when people have worshipped me rather than him.

do you see this? Jesus is afraid that he will be punished as a result of christianity. turn to islam before it is too late.

After that, jesus sends the people to muhammad, and he prostrates to allah, along with the believers. Allah comes forward to us and the sky turns black. Those who didn't belive in him AND HIS MESSENGER will fall flat on their faces. For those who think you only need to worship ANY GOD AND YOU'LL BE FINE YOU ARE WRONG!!

then the sky turns black and books start falling, with every deed people have committed and the judging begins.

Allah tells the people there is no death, and this is their place for eternity.

inshaalah, we will all be in heaven

hishkarnib

Tell me what happens after you die in Islam (ill counter this point about Jesus soon)

QUOTE

Evolution does not need a solid foundation for the beginning of life. It doesn't matter if abiogenesis or the flying spaghetti monster's noodly appendage was responsible for life, all that matters is that this life is subject to change in inherited traits over time.

And you make it sound like its hard to believe in a God.... I really dont see how anyone could look at that, and see it acceptable, seems like very desperate measures to me

Looks at the world around you, the beauty, the significant design in everything

Just look at the design of DNA/RNA

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="SonKev"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]Thats where science (theory) ulitmately fails, when it tells me we came from a rock, I am not afraid to say. We have never seen this primordial soup coming from dead matter and never will.

And if Evolution can't give a solid foudation for how life began how can we beleive in any of it?

C_Town_Soul

Evolution=/=origin of life

You're right, the big bang is. the big bang leads to evolution,(which basically is chapter1 of evolution) so if the big bang is broken...oh man are you screwed.

What does the big bang have to do with anything? Evolution is just a change in inherited traits in a poplation of organisms over time. There doesn't have to be a naturalistic origin of life in order for evolution to be true. How life began is beyond the point here.

And because Evolution doesnt have a solid foundation for how life began how are we to trust it? All it gives us is abiogenesis which is so stupid (in my opinion)

Evolution does not need a solid foundation for the beginning of life. It doesn't matter if abiogenesis or the flying spaghetti monster's noodly appendage was responsible for life, all that matters is that this life is subject to change in inherited traits over time.

Partially why i don't trust evolution. A begining defines an end. You seem to skip the begining completely saying its not important when it is one of the most crucial.

Never said it was! Get it? I said " one reason i dont beleive in it because it doesnt give a solid explanation for the begining. and what explanation by sceince that have been given are completely ludicrous by all standards.

Point being something had to of started it.

Never said it was! Get it? I said " one reason i dont beleive in it because it doesnt give a solid explanation for the begining. and what explanation by sceince that have been given are completely ludicrous by all standards.

123625

[QUOTE="123625"]Thats where science (theory) ulitmately fails, when it tells me we came from a rock, I am not afraid to say. We have never seen this primordial soup coming from dead matter and never will.

And if Evolution can't give a solid foudation for how life began how can we beleive in any of it?

You seem to skip the begining completely saying its not important when it is one of the most crucial.123625

Don't Christians practice this when asked to consider the origin of God? Saying "God is eternal" and claiming "he's always been there" is a bit too easy, don't you think?

Gah..I'm getting pulled in to a religion topic.

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]

Im still skeptical about those fossils, They could be easily be different types of apes or monkeys that could of gone extinct.

Or they could be variations between kinds. (Not impossible)

123625

Look through my post again, read the text, examine the fossils and tell me which ones you think are apes or monkeys. Why, if they are just random extinct species, do they show a progression towards a human skull in chronological order?

And "variation between kinds" is just evolution (unless I have misunderstood you).

No its not the same as evolution, its just a change within the kind. A red dog may give birth to a blue dog does that mean they are not dogs? No of course not, it's still a dog.

Unless the change is a complete change to previous its not evolution.

Okay that's nice but you haven't answered the question. Which of those fossils are monkey or apes? Look at them (they wont bite) and tell me what you think.

You were saying that the skulls I presented were just variations within kinds. That's not a minor change like coat colour in dogs it's a major change involving complex stuff like the enlargement of the cranial capacity, bipedalism etc.

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]

Im still skeptical about those fossils, They could be easily be different types of apes or monkeys that could of gone extinct.

Or they could be variations between kinds. (Not impossible)

domatron23

Look through my post again, read the text, examine the fossils and tell me which ones you think are apes or monkeys. Why, if they are just random extinct species, do they show a progression towards a human skull in chronological order?

And "variation between kinds" is just evolution (unless I have misunderstood you).

No its not the same as evolution, its just a change within the kind. A red dog may give birth to a blue dog does that mean they are not dogs? No of course not, it's still a dog.

Unless the change is a complete change to previous its not evolution.

Okay that's nice but you haven't answered the question. Which of those fossils are monkey or apes? Look at them (they wont bite) and tell me what you think.

You were saying that the skulls I presented were just variations within kinds. That's not a minor change like coat colour in dogs it's a major change involving complex stuff like the enlargement of the cranial capacity, bipedalism etc.

I don't beleive they are human skulls. They could just as easily be variations of extinct ape of chimp.

after you die as a believer:

you're soul is taken out by the angel of death, who comes in the form of a handsome teen in his youth, which ibrahim stated as "seeing this form is enough reward alone". He gently takes your sould and you go to the heavens. The angel orderes for the gate to be openedand it does. you move up from heaven to heaven and the angels tell you thisis your place. The believer says oh allah, make the last hour come soon. They are taken back to their graves and the questioning begins. They are asked who is your lord, what is your book and who is your messenger.

they will answer correctly allah, the quran and muhammad, then their graves will expand and be furnished with that of heaven until the day of reckoning.

as for the disbeliever, their soul will be ripped out by the angel of death in a form described by ibrahim as a giant with flames coming out from everywhere. when ibrahim saw this, he fainted. when he regained consciousness he said that this for alone is enough punishment to be seen. your soul will be ripped so severly you will utter a scream that all except humanity and the jinn will hear, if it were to be heard, you will faint. Then he is taken to heaven, but the gate wont open. They he is shown hell and the angels tell him this is your place in the hereafter.

then the disbeliever will say, oh allah, please do not make the hour arrive, then they will be thrown to their grave and onto their faces (this is their soul returning to the grave). Then the questioning begins. even if they knew the answers in their lifetime, they wont know them due to the will of allah, then their grave will tighten, till their rips are squashed into each other and their graves furnished will hell until the hour arrives

[QUOTE="123625"]You seem to skip the begining completely saying its not important when it is one of the most crucial.Velocitas8

Don't Christians practice this when asked to consider the origin of God? Saying "God is eternal" and claiming "he's always been there" is a bit too easy, don't you think?

Gah..I'm getting pulled in to a religion topic.

Two choices.

Either you are the result of intellegence and design (this could mean something guided evolution) I can accept something like that if it happened.

Or some how the we came into existence unguided and are the result various random mutations.

And so what if god is eternal? Its got nothing to do with the subject at hand here.

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]

Im still skeptical about those fossils, They could be easily be different types of apes or monkeys that could of gone extinct.

Or they could be variations between kinds. (Not impossible)

123625

Look through my post again, read the text, examine the fossils and tell me which ones you think are apes or monkeys. Why, if they are just random extinct species, do they show a progression towards a human skull in chronological order?

And "variation between kinds" is just evolution (unless I have misunderstood you).

No its not the same as evolution, its just a change within the kind. A red dog may give birth to a blue dog does that mean they are not dogs? No of course not, it's still a dog.

Unless the change is a complete change to previous its not evolution.

Okay that's nice but you haven't answered the question. Which of those fossils are monkey or apes? Look at them (they wont bite) and tell me what you think.

You were saying that the skulls I presented were just variations within kinds. That's not a minor change like coat colour in dogs it's a major change involving complex stuff like the enlargement of the cranial capacity, bipedalism etc.

I don't beleive they are human skulls. They could just as easily be variations of extinct ape of chimp.

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]

Im still skeptical about those fossils, They could be easily be different types of apes or monkeys that could of gone extinct.

Or they could be variations between kinds. (Not impossible)

domatron23

Look through my post again, read the text, examine the fossils and tell me which ones you think are apes or monkeys. Why, if they are just random extinct species, do they show a progression towards a human skull in chronological order?

And "variation between kinds" is just evolution (unless I have misunderstood you).

No its not the same as evolution, its just a change within the kind. A red dog may give birth to a blue dog does that mean they are not dogs? No of course not, it's still a dog.

Unless the change is a complete change to previous its not evolution.

Okay that's nice but you haven't answered the question. Which of those fossils are monkey or apes? Look at them (they wont bite) and tell me what you think.

You were saying that the skulls I presented were just variations within kinds. That's not a minor change like coat colour in dogs it's a major change involving complex stuff like the enlargement of the cranial capacity, bipedalism etc.

You've seen people with fat heads, you seen people with tiny heads (pictures) who live high in the mountains with high pressure...

Not every ape will look the same, there are different types that breed with each other, genetic mutations also happen that could possible change the shape of certain part of the skull...

So many things could have caused this...

And since you are on the topic of fossils, explain all the missing links, we would have found millions/billions of fossils if the earth is billions of years old, we have no fossils inbetween stages of other animals, and they WOULD be everywhere...

And dont say equilibrium...

after you die as a believer:

you're soul is taken out by the angel of death, who comes in the form of a handsome teen in his youth, which ibrahim stated as "seeing this form is enough reward alone". He gently takes your sould and you go to the heavens. The angel orderes for the gate to be openedand it does. you move up from heaven to heaven and the angels tell you thisis your place. The believer says oh allah, make the last hour come soon. They are taken back to their graves and the questioning begins. They are asked who is your lord, what is your book and who is your messenger.

they will answer correctly allah, the quran and muhammad, then their graves will expand and be furnished with that of heaven until the day of reckoning.

as for the disbeliever, their soul will be ripped out by the angel of death in a form described by ibrahim as a giant with flames coming out from everywhere. when ibrahim saw this, he fainted. when he regained consciousness he said that this for alone is enough punishment to be seen. your soul will be ripped so severly you will utter a scream that all except humanity and the jinn will hear, if it were to be heard, you will faint. Then he is taken to heaven, but the gate wont open. They he is shown hell and the angels tell him this is your place in the hereafter.

then the disbeliever will say, oh allah, please do not make the hour arrive, then they will be thrown to their grave and onto their faces (this is their soul returning to the grave). Then the questioning begins. even if they knew the answers in their lifetime, they wont know them due to the will of allah, then their grave will tighten, till their rips are squashed into each other and their graves furnished will hell until the hour arrives

hishkarnib

Funny i thought you went to grave first and then an angel of death will come to you asking three questions. Do you have the suras to back up this claim of yours and are these from a valid source. I woud like to read em.

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]

Im still skeptical about those fossils, They could be easily be different types of apes or monkeys that could of gone extinct.

Or they could be variations between kinds. (Not impossible)

C_Town_Soul

Look through my post again, read the text, examine the fossils and tell me which ones you think are apes or monkeys. Why, if they are just random extinct species, do they show a progression towards a human skull in chronological order?

And "variation between kinds" is just evolution (unless I have misunderstood you).

No its not the same as evolution, its just a change within the kind. A red dog may give birth to a blue dog does that mean they are not dogs? No of course not, it's still a dog.

Unless the change is a complete change to previous its not evolution.

Okay that's nice but you haven't answered the question. Which of those fossils are monkey or apes? Look at them (they wont bite) and tell me what you think.

You were saying that the skulls I presented were just variations within kinds. That's not a minor change like coat colour in dogs it's a major change involving complex stuff like the enlargement of the cranial capacity, bipedalism etc.

I don't beleive they are human skulls. They could just as easily be variations of extinct ape of chimp.

Now you are just lying. Evolution is not true untill we have seen it happen, (Sciencetific fact is what we have observed). Those skulls could easily be variations between kinds!

You stated that we evolve as a species. Are humans evolving in the first place?

And I don't agree with religion becoming obsolete.

sorry i actually dont but there are definitely surahs for them.

i was at friday payer today and this was the topic of discussion at the khutba so yeah thats why my mind is fresh at it the guy sed them as a surah then translated.

i really appreciate the fact that you are listening to my opinion and researching islam, keep researching and you will find answers, allah speaks to us through tthe quranand inshallah one day you will become a muslim.

im off to pray maghrib (its 8:30 pm in AU) brb in 10 mins

You've seen people with fat heads, you seen people with tiny heads (pictures) who live high in the mountains with high pressure...

Not every ape will look the same, there are different types that breed with each other, genetic mutations also happen that could possible change the shape of certain part of the skull...

So many things could have caused this...

And since you are on the topic of fossils, explain all the missing links, we would have found millions/billions of fossils if the earth is billions of years old, we have no fossils inbetween stages of other animals, and they WOULD be everywhere...

And dont say equilibrium...

SonKev

[QUOTE="SonKev"]

You've seen people with fat heads, you seen people with tiny heads (pictures) who live high in the mountains with high pressure...

Not every ape will look the same, there are different types that breed with each other, genetic mutations also happen that could possible change the shape of certain part of the skull...

So many things could have caused this...

And since you are on the topic of fossils, explain all the missing links, we would have found millions/billions of fossils if the earth is billions of years old, we have no fossils inbetween stages of other animals, and they WOULD be everywhere...

And dont say equilibrium...

C_Town_Soul

Artist renderation do make it fact:roll:

[QUOTE="SonKev"]

You've seen people with fat heads, you seen people with tiny heads (pictures) who live high in the mountains with high pressure...

Not every ape will look the same, there are different types that breed with each other, genetic mutations also happen that could possible change the shape of certain part of the skull...

So many things could have caused this...

And since you are on the topic of fossils, explain all the missing links, we would have found millions/billions of fossils if the earth is billions of years old, we have no fossils inbetween stages of other animals, and they WOULD be everywhere...

And dont say equilibrium...

C_Town_Soul

Anyone can make drawings... the very sad thing is, so many of these drawings have been proven wrong through the years and decieved so many people... : /

Do you know what the missing links are bud?

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]

Im still skeptical about those fossils, They could be easily be different types of apes or monkeys that could of gone extinct.

Or they could be variations between kinds. (Not impossible)

123625

Look through my post again, read the text, examine the fossils and tell me which ones you think are apes or monkeys. Why, if they are just random extinct species, do they show a progression towards a human skull in chronological order?

And "variation between kinds" is just evolution (unless I have misunderstood you).

No its not the same as evolution, its just a change within the kind. A red dog may give birth to a blue dog does that mean they are not dogs? No of course not, it's still a dog.

Unless the change is a complete change to previous its not evolution.

Okay that's nice but you haven't answered the question. Which of those fossils are monkey or apes? Look at them (they wont bite) and tell me what you think.

You were saying that the skulls I presented were just variations within kinds. That's not a minor change like coat colour in dogs it's a major change involving complex stuff like the enlargement of the cranial capacity, bipedalism etc.

I don't beleive they are human skulls. They could just as easily be variations of extinct ape of chimp.

Now you are just lying. Evolution is not true untill we have seen it happen, (Sciencetific fact is what we have observed). Those skulls could easily be variations between kinds!

oh yeah and by the way, you were saying that as long as you believe in god you will be fine.

well islamic oath (the shahada) states that ash hadu an lailaha ila allah wa ash hadu ana muhammadan rasulullah.

this is translated as: i bear witness that there is no god but allah and muhammad is the messenger of allah.

Two choices.

Either you are the result of intellegence and design (this could mean something guided evolution) I can accept something like that if it happened.

Or some how the we came into existence unguided and are the result various random mutations.

And so what if god is eternal? Its got nothing to do with the subject at hand here.

123625

Indeed it's straying from the topic at hand, but I just find it laughable that someone would think the first option is any more logical and reasonable than the second.

If we're all the result of "Intelligent design," from where does this intelligent being that created us originate? Everything must have a beginning, right? Does God just appear in to existence at one point? Did some other being create him?

Obviously you don't have the answer, nobody does. Just something to think about. And no, I'm not an Atheist.. I used to consider myself a (non-denominational) Christian, actually. Guess I'd be considered Agnostic now.

So many of the creatures inbetween the evolutions would have been knocked out by there own belief of survival of the fitest... half the drawings by evolutionists are cripelled freakin beings that would have been eaten by EVERYTHING...the theory of evolution is so desperate it makes me very sad : /

Sooooo many problems everywhere in it, esspecially the foundation...

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]

Im still skeptical about those fossils, They could be easily be different types of apes or monkeys that could of gone extinct.

Or they could be variations between kinds. (Not impossible)

C_Town_Soul

Look through my post again, read the text, examine the fossils and tell me which ones you think are apes or monkeys. Why, if they are just random extinct species, do they show a progression towards a human skull in chronological order?

And "variation between kinds" is just evolution (unless I have misunderstood you).

No its not the same as evolution, its just a change within the kind. A red dog may give birth to a blue dog does that mean they are not dogs? No of course not, it's still a dog.

Unless the change is a complete change to previous its not evolution.

Okay that's nice but you haven't answered the question. Which of those fossils are monkey or apes? Look at them (they wont bite) and tell me what you think.

You were saying that the skulls I presented were just variations within kinds. That's not a minor change like coat colour in dogs it's a major change involving complex stuff like the enlargement of the cranial capacity, bipedalism etc.

I don't beleive they are human skulls. They could just as easily be variations of extinct ape of chimp.

Now you are just lying. Evolution is not true untill we have seen it happen, (Sciencetific fact is what we have observed). Those skulls could easily be variations between kinds!

I see you are clearly trying, but untill we see evolution through an animal Evolution is not fact just accept it and move on. And kind does matter, that guy earlier was trying to pass it off as evolution when it clearly is not. :roll:

You are mixing up microevolution and macroevolution dude...

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="SonKev"]

You've seen people with fat heads, you seen people with tiny heads (pictures) who live high in the mountains with high pressure...

Not every ape will look the same, there are different types that breed with each other, genetic mutations also happen that could possible change the shape of certain part of the skull...

So many things could have caused this...

And since you are on the topic of fossils, explain all the missing links, we would have found millions/billions of fossils if the earth is billions of years old, we have no fossils inbetween stages of other animals, and they WOULD be everywhere...

And dont say equilibrium...

SonKev

Anyone can make drawings... the very sad thing is, so many of these drawings have been proven wrong through the years and decieved so many people... : /

Do you know what the missing links are bud?

To be honest thought. missing link is a stupid term. That's just like saying, oh people have evidence of my grandmother being alive and they know I'm alive, but since no one can find my mother, we're going to assume that I'm not related to my grandmother even though we can do DNA testing and comparing unique common characters between us.

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]

Im still skeptical about those fossils, They could be easily be different types of apes or monkeys that could of gone extinct.

Or they could be variations between kinds. (Not impossible)

123625

Look through my post again, read the text, examine the fossils and tell me which ones you think are apes or monkeys. Why, if they are just random extinct species, do they show a progression towards a human skull in chronological order?

And "variation between kinds" is just evolution (unless I have misunderstood you).

No its not the same as evolution, its just a change within the kind. A red dog may give birth to a blue dog does that mean they are not dogs? No of course not, it's still a dog.

Unless the change is a complete change to previous its not evolution.

Okay that's nice but you haven't answered the question. Which of those fossils are monkey or apes? Look at them (they wont bite) and tell me what you think.

You were saying that the skulls I presented were just variations within kinds. That's not a minor change like coat colour in dogs it's a major change involving complex stuff like the enlargement of the cranial capacity, bipedalism etc.

I don't beleive they are human skulls. They could just as easily be variations of extinct ape of chimp.

Now you are just lying. Evolution is not true untill we have seen it happen, (Sciencetific fact is what we have observed). Those skulls could easily be variations between kinds!

I see you are clearly trying, but untill we see evolution through an animal Evolution is not fact just accept it and move on. And kind does matter, that guy earlier was trying to pass it off as evolution when it clearly is not. :roll:

true, so do you have any comments on mine?

im not trying to argue with you, i just want to correct your doubts about islam

You are mixing up microevolution and macroevolution dude...

SonKev

[QUOTE="123625"]Two choices.

Either you are the result of intellegence and design (this could mean something guided evolution) I can accept something like that if it happened.

Or some how the we came into existence unguided and are the result various random mutations.

And so what if god is eternal? Its got nothing to do with the subject at hand here.

Velocitas8

Indeed it's straying from the topic at hand, but I just find it laughable that someone would think the first option is any more logical and reasonable than the second.

If we're all the result of "Intelligent design," from where does this intelligent being that created us originate? Everything must have a beginning, right? Does God just appear in to existence at one point? Did some other being create him?

Obviously you don't have the answer, nobody does. Just something to think about. And no, I'm not an Atheist.. I used to consider myself a (non-denominational) Christian, actually. Guess I'd be considered Agnostic now.

Well think about it did god create time? a begining can only be within time.

And how is being designed by intellegence laughable? It makes alot more sense than evolution which doesnt even tell us how any of it began.

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="SonKev"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]Thats where science (theory) ulitmately fails, when it tells me we came from a rock, I am not afraid to say. We have never seen this primordial soup coming from dead matter and never will.

And if Evolution can't give a solid foudation for how life began how can we beleive in any of it?

C_Town_Soul

Evolution=/=origin of life

You're right, the big bang is. the big bang leads to evolution,(which basically is chapter1 of evolution) so if the big bang is broken...oh man are you screwed.

What does the big bang have to do with anything? Evolution is just a change in inherited traits in a poplation of organisms over time. There doesn't have to be a naturalistic origin of life in order for evolution to be true. How life began is beyond the point here.

And because Evolution doesnt have a solid foundation for how life began how are we to trust it? All it gives us is abiogenesis which is so stupid (in my opinion)

Evolution does not need a solid foundation for the beginning of life. It doesn't matter if abiogenesis or the flying spaghetti monster's noodly appendage was responsible for life, all that matters is that this life is subject to change in inherited traits over time.

Partially why i don't trust evolution. A begining defines an end. You seem to skip the begining completely saying its not important when it is one of the most crucial.

I don't really have much to add to this. In any case why should the ambiguous beginning of life discredit evolution. It's kind of like saying to a child who hasn't had sex education "you don't know exactly how you were born so therefore you don't exist!".

I personally don't know how the universe started and I am ignorant of the big bang and most other theories including God so I will simply say I don't know. But how does that change what I do know (about evolution and the evidence that backs it up)?

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="SonKev"]

You forget one thing, natural selection is a theory, just an idea believed by people...

And no matter how many people believe it to be true, wont ever make it

SonKev

Evolution is backed up by loads of evidence, go do some research.

Its not a scientific fact though.

Some people will never understand this, and will argue and argue,

They are afraid of the thought of God being real

Why are we afraid of god being real? i'd love there to be a god and an afterlife, but there isn't.

true, so do you have any comments on mine?

im not trying to argue with you, i just want to correct your doubts about islam

hishkarnib

I would rather not argue too. i just don't see it as the one religion true religion.

If its only a temporary punishment (if islam is real) then i'll aacept it and ask allah everything, if i reach him.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="SonKev"]

You forget one thing, natural selection is a theory, just an idea believed by people...

And no matter how many people believe it to be true, wont ever make it

SonKev

Evolution is backed up by loads of evidence, go do some research.

Its not a scientific fact though.

Nothing in science is ever proven to be 100% fact,weve explained this to you.

Also a whale will never give birth to a cow, thats impossible.

So you just admited, its still a theory and can never be proven

Scientific laws are absolute

It has more proof than god. Does it not? Its more credible than being produced from incest via Adam and Eve

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]

Im still skeptical about those fossils, They could be easily be different types of apes or monkeys that could of gone extinct.

Or they could be variations between kinds. (Not impossible)

123625

Look through my post again, read the text, examine the fossils and tell me which ones you think are apes or monkeys. Why, if they are just random extinct species, do they show a progression towards a human skull in chronological order?

And "variation between kinds" is just evolution (unless I have misunderstood you).

No its not the same as evolution, its just a change within the kind. A red dog may give birth to a blue dog does that mean they are not dogs? No of course not, it's still a dog.

Unless the change is a complete change to previous its not evolution.

Okay that's nice but you haven't answered the question. Which of those fossils are monkey or apes? Look at them (they wont bite) and tell me what you think.

You were saying that the skulls I presented were just variations within kinds. That's not a minor change like coat colour in dogs it's a major change involving complex stuff like the enlargement of the cranial capacity, bipedalism etc.

I don't beleive they are human skulls. They could just as easily be variations of extinct ape of chimp.

So this isn't human?

Once again I ask you; why do these skulls show a progression towards human characteristics in chronological order.

Well think about it did god create time? a begining can only be within time.

And how is being designed by intellegence laughable? It makes alot more sense than evolution which doesnt even tell us how any of it began.

123625

[QUOTE="123625"]Two choices.

Either you are the result of intellegence and design (this could mean something guided evolution) I can accept something like that if it happened.

Or some how the we came into existence unguided and are the result various random mutations.

And so what if god is eternal? Its got nothing to do with the subject at hand here.

Velocitas8

Indeed it's straying from the topic at hand, but I just find it laughable that someone would think the first option is any more logical and reasonable than the second.

If we're all the result of "Intelligent design," from where does this intelligent being that created us originate? Everything must have a beginning, right? Does God just appear in to existence at one point? Did some other being create him?

Obviously you don't have the answer, nobody does. Just something to think about. And no, I'm not an Atheist.. I used to consider myself a (non-denominational) Christian, actually. Guess I'd be considered Agnostic now.

God has been there forever, He created time and beginning, and is not bounded by them. God is supernatural, I know its very hard to understand and accept, but we arent given all the answers and even if we were, would we understand them...? We dont come close to even fully understanding our own brain, and it is a material we actually have...

I very sorry you are in a possition of unsureness, but I do have an amazing verse for you. God says;

Isa 55:8-9

8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways ," says the LORD.
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
NKJV

(other Christians are discussing it here: http://isichristianclan.net/ISI/viewtopic.php?t=1425&sid=292154db13e73cdec6a814134b68c5d7)

but you're missing the point it is temporary for some due to allahs mercy. But you may be stuck in hell for eternity because allah will tell you that you have been guided to islam, allah may have sent me to guide you, you have researched islam for yourself as well, you can tell its the great religion, turn to the quran. Allah won't throw a single being in hell without telling them why he did so.

besides even if it was temporary, wer're talking thousands and millions of years here, and you will end up in the lowest heven after that. Wouldn't you rather a spot in the 7th heaven?

[QUOTE="123625"]

Well think about it did god create time? a begining can only be within time.

And how is being designed by intellegence laughable? It makes alot more sense than evolution which doesnt even tell us how any of it began.

C_Town_Soul

A leap of faith is BS. Isn't it human instinct to question everything? We need proof. It's not a leap of faith, its being fed utter BS since day one. The vast majority of people brought up Christian are Christian.

[QUOTE="Velocitas8"][QUOTE="123625"]Two choices.

Either you are the result of intellegence and design (this could mean something guided evolution) I can accept something like that if it happened.

Or some how the we came into existence unguided and are the result various random mutations.

And so what if god is eternal? Its got nothing to do with the subject at hand here.

SonKev

Indeed it's straying from the topic at hand, but I just find it laughable that someone would think the first option is any more logical and reasonable than the second.

If we're all the result of "Intelligent design," from where does this intelligent being that created us originate? Everything must have a beginning, right? Does God just appear in to existence at one point? Did some other being create him?

Obviously you don't have the answer, nobody does. Just something to think about. And no, I'm not an Atheist.. I used to consider myself a (non-denominational) Christian, actually. Guess I'd be considered Agnostic now.

God has been there forever, He created time and beginning, and is not bounded by them. God is supernatural, I know its very hard to understand and accept, but we arent given all the answers and even if we were, would we understand them...? We dont come close to even fully understanding our own brain, and it is a material we actually have...

I very sorry you are in a possition of unsureness, but I do have an amazing verse for you. God says;

Isa 55:8-9

8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways ," says the LORD.
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
NKJV

(other Christians are discussing it here: http://isichristianclan.net/ISI/viewtopic.php?t=1425&sid=292154db13e73cdec6a814134b68c5d7)

Oh, so you were there when "god" created the universe? You were there when he created time? Hahah, you do realise god didn't write or dictate the bible?

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="SonKev"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]Thats where science (theory) ulitmately fails, when it tells me we came from a rock, I am not afraid to say. We have never seen this primordial soup coming from dead matter and never will.

And if Evolution can't give a solid foudation for how life began how can we beleive in any of it?

domatron23

Evolution=/=origin of life

You're right, the big bang is. the big bang leads to evolution,(which basically is chapter1 of evolution) so if the big bang is broken...oh man are you screwed.

What does the big bang have to do with anything? Evolution is just a change in inherited traits in a poplation of organisms over time. There doesn't have to be a naturalistic origin of life in order for evolution to be true. How life began is beyond the point here.

And because Evolution doesnt have a solid foundation for how life began how are we to trust it? All it gives us is abiogenesis which is so stupid (in my opinion)

Evolution does not need a solid foundation for the beginning of life. It doesn't matter if abiogenesis or the flying spaghetti monster's noodly appendage was responsible for life, all that matters is that this life is subject to change in inherited traits over time.

Partially why i don't trust evolution. A begining defines an end. You seem to skip the begining completely saying its not important when it is one of the most crucial.

I don't really have much to add to this. In any case why should the ambiguous beginning of life discredit evolution. It's kind of like saying to a child who hasn't had sex education "you don't know exactly how you were born so therefore you don't exist!".

I personally don't know how the universe started and I am ignorant of the big bang and most other theories including God so I will simply say I don't know. But how does that change what I do know (about evolution and the evidence that backs it up)?

All i here evolutionist say is that "we have evidence!' Now i will ask you a simple question so simple that even you can answer it.

Science's main princible is to observe fact and find out how it works no?

Is Evolution Fact or scientific theory?

Im just saying that evolution has to come up with some form of credible begining, then i might consider accepting it.

A begining defines an end.

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="SonKev"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="123625"]Thats where science (theory) ulitmately fails, when it tells me we came from a rock, I am not afraid to say. We have never seen this primordial soup coming from dead matter and never will.

And if Evolution can't give a solid foudation for how life began how can we beleive in any of it?

123625

Evolution=/=origin of life

You're right, the big bang is. the big bang leads to evolution,(which basically is chapter1 of evolution) so if the big bang is broken...oh man are you screwed.

What does the big bang have to do with anything? Evolution is just a change in inherited traits in a poplation of organisms over time. There doesn't have to be a naturalistic origin of life in order for evolution to be true. How life began is beyond the point here.

And because Evolution doesnt have a solid foundation for how life began how are we to trust it? All it gives us is abiogenesis which is so stupid (in my opinion)

Evolution does not need a solid foundation for the beginning of life. It doesn't matter if abiogenesis or the flying spaghetti monster's noodly appendage was responsible for life, all that matters is that this life is subject to change in inherited traits over time.

Partially why i don't trust evolution. A begining defines an end. You seem to skip the begining completely saying its not important when it is one of the most crucial.

I don't really have much to add to this. In any case why should the ambiguous beginning of life discredit evolution. It's kind of like saying to a child who hasn't had sex education "you don't know exactly how you were born so therefore you don't exist!".

I personally don't know how the universe started and I am ignorant of the big bang and most other theories including God so I will simply say I don't know. But how does that change what I do know (about evolution and the evidence that backs it up)?

All i here evolutionist say is that "we have evidence!' Now i will ask you a simple question so simple that even you can answer it.

Science's main princible is to observe fact and find out how it works no?

Is Evolution Fact or scientific theory?

Im just saying that evolution has to come up with some form of credible begining, then i might consider accepting it.

A begining defines an end.

It's much, much more credible than being spawned by incest. It's much more credible than a women being created by a man's rib. It's more credible than a 2000 year old book, translated, edited and revised to make it seem less violent.

[QUOTE="SonKev"][QUOTE="Velocitas8"][QUOTE="123625"]Two choices.

Either you are the result of intellegence and design (this could mean something guided evolution) I can accept something like that if it happened.

Or some how the we came into existence unguided and are the result various random mutations.

And so what if god is eternal? Its got nothing to do with the subject at hand here.

jking197

Indeed it's straying from the topic at hand, but I just find it laughable that someone would think the first option is any more logical and reasonable than the second.

If we're all the result of "Intelligent design," from where does this intelligent being that created us originate? Everything must have a beginning, right? Does God just appear in to existence at one point? Did some other being create him?

Obviously you don't have the answer, nobody does. Just something to think about. And no, I'm not an Atheist.. I used to consider myself a (non-denominational) Christian, actually. Guess I'd be considered Agnostic now.

God has been there forever, He created time and beginning, and is not bounded by them. God is supernatural, I know its very hard to understand and accept, but we arent given all the answers and even if we were, would we understand them...? We dont come close to even fully understanding our own brain, and it is a material we actually have...

I very sorry you are in a possition of unsureness, but I do have an amazing verse for you. God says;

Isa 55:8-9

8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways ," says the LORD.
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
NKJV

(other Christians are discussing it here: http://isichristianclan.net/ISI/viewtopic.php?t=1425&sid=292154db13e73cdec6a814134b68c5d7)

Oh, so you were there when "god" created the universe? You were there when he created time? Hahah, you do realise god didn't write or dictate the bible?

We don't know if thats how it happened at all. We beleive it happened like that, just like some people beleive the big bang occured, but they werent around, how does it make it fact if it wasnt observed?

It recquires faith.

And god Inspired the bible through the holy spirit.

Well think about it did god create time? a begining can only be within time.

And how is being designed by intellegence laughable? It makes alot more sense than evolution which doesnt even tell us how any of it began.

123625

These are the supposed arguments from Creationists that I dislike. Explaining away God's existence with "he's always been there" is a cop-out.

And I never called intelligent design "laughable." I said claiming it's more likely than evolutionary theory is laughable. Intelligent design has not a single shred of proof to back it up. In fact, there's mounds of evidence that actually disprove "Young Earth" Creationism/Intelligent Design.

God has been there forever, He created time

SonKev

The definition of god is the creator of everything except himself. Right

Creation is the process of creating something

For every cause there is an effect, thus some amount of time has to go by to accomplish this feat.

In other words, in order to create something, some amount of time goes by.

You cannot create time because time is needed to create something.

Thus, time has always existed.

The mere fact that time has always existed contradicts the definition of god as the creator of everything

Therefore, god does not exist.

Oh, so you were there when "god" created the universe? You were there when he created time? Hahah, you do realise god didn't write or dictate the bible?

God spoke to the authors through the Holy Spirit to create the Bible. I guess He didnt LITERALLY write the Bible...lol