Darwins Theory of Evolution is not Fact, it is merely Theory

Well Evolution is not my favorite subject, so of course I will make common mistakes. Although I know enough to agree that it is a Theory and has yet to become a fact.

VisigothSaxon

You guys are showing no reason.

Do I need to add a poll? You guys don't honestly think Darwin's Theory of Evolution is fact right? If so then please give evidence now, or give up. I am not going to repeat myself anymore.

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

Well Evolution is not my favorite subject, so of course I will make common mistakes. Although I know enough to agree that it is a Theory and has yet to become a fact.

Engrish_Major

Then there should be no arguement here, correct?

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]

guys i think VigisothSaxon is trolling :( there's no other possible explanation for the stupidity

VisigothSaxon

Or you are, if Evolution is Fact, then give me the evidence, if not then move on.

*Head explodes a second time in exasperation*

Come on dude, there aremillions of documents and scientific studies that have been done to test the validity of evolution. Do some research!

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

I know, why would there still be apes...

VisigothSaxon

Thats it, I'm having a stroke right now.. These apes are never going to human beings.. They are going down a seperate path of evolution.. The primates of today and humans share a common ancestors countless generations back that branched out.. You claim you know what the theory of evolution is.. Yet you have made some of the most common and obvious mistakes out there.

Well Evolution is not my favorite subject, so of course I will make common mistakes. Although I know enough to agree that it is a Theory and has yet to become a fact.

Then you have no clue how the Science community works.. If this were religious based idea.. It would have been canonized and considered second nature of religious belief centuries ago.. Science is in it self critical of ones analysis.. There will NEVER be stone cold "facts".. Furthermore do you understand what is not set in stone in the Theory of Evoultion? Because it has nothing to do with the fact that evolution has occured.. ITs accepted as fact, the thing tha tis constantly changing is how and why we evolved..

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]

guys i think VigisothSaxon is trolling :( there's no other possible explanation for the stupidity

VisigothSaxon

Or you are, if Evolution is Fact, then give me the evidence, if not then move on.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2.php?topic_id=46

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

A Scientific Theory is still not a fact and stop using that argument.

Engrish_Major

Facts change. Scientific theories are current human models of understanding. Theories are "proven" hypotheses, where the nature and quantum of "proof" (typically being deductively based, open to criticism, repeatably tested or observed) has been provided.

All this talk of "facts" and "proof" is really unhelpful, since they are relative terms within a scientific framework.

VisigothSaxon

How do you have such a low post count?

You guys are showing no reason.

Do I need to add a poll? You guys don't honestly think Darwin's Theory of Evolution is fact right? If so then please give evidence now, or give up. I am not going to repeat myself anymore.

I will post this again because you appear to have missed it.

Scientific theories are explanations. Do you know what an explanation is? here let me help. An explanation is a set of statements constructed to describe a set of facts which clarifies the causes, and consequences of those facts. A few examples of the facts that evolution has explained. Animals change over millions of years due to natural selection, Punctuated equilibrium has occurred, etc. Those statements are undeniable facts, and a theory is the pinnacle of scientific explanation.

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]

guys i think VigisothSaxon is trolling :( there's no other possible explanation for the stupidity

redstorm72

Or you are, if Evolution is Fact, then give me the evidence, if not then move on.

*Head explodes a second time in exasperation*

Come on dude, there aremillions of documents and scientific studies that have been done to test the validity of evolution. Do some research!

That does not make it fact, either provide what makes it fact or stop bringing it up.

You guys are showing no reason.

Do I need to add a poll? You guys don't honestly think Darwin's Theory of Evolution is fact right? If so then please give evidence now, or give up. I am not going to repeat myself anymore.

VisigothSaxon

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"] HA! In here , I am in the last year of school and till that I took "something" about evolution , it was a mere 2 pages of darwin's life and what his theory did and a quick stinch of it .FMAB_GTO

What does Darwin's theory of evolution have anything to do with knowing what a scientific theory is? Thats kind of a cornerstone to how we catalogue and explain scientific phenemnons.

I personally think Odin shaped us all in his image.

You guys are showing no reason.

Do I need to add a poll? You guys don't honestly think Darwin's Theory of Evolution is fact right? If so then please give evidence now, or give up. I am not going to repeat myself anymore.

VisigothSaxon

Evolution is fact, we have more evidence of it then any other Scientific theory out there.. Its a cornerstone of biology.. What is being constantly improved with the theory are the how's and why's numerous organisms have changed through out time.. Stop going on with this, you don't even know the first two things about science..

I will post this again because you appear to have missed it.

Scientific theories are explanations. Do you know what an explanation is? here let me help. An explanation is a set of statements constructed to describe a set of facts which clarifies the causes, and consequences of those facts. A few examples of the facts that evolution has explained. Animals change over millions of years due to natural selection, Punctuated equilibrium has occurred, etc. Those statements are undeniable facts, and a theory is the pinnacle of scientific explanation.

Guybrush_3

That does not make it fact. God and Religion are an explanation for our life and existence as well. Either prove it fact, or move on.

I know that a Scientific Theory is surrounded by evidence and facts, that does not make the Theory in of itself a fact now does it?

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

I know, why would there still be apes...

VisigothSaxon

Speciation occurs when populations are split. For some basic evidence for this, please refer to Australian Marsupials.

I don't know, apes are all over the place and in areas with humans. You would think if there are native human's there, there wouldn't be apes.

Why not answer my previous post?

I don't think that, since I observe that species can co-exist. Is our genetic heritage not enough evidence for you?

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

You guys are showing no reason.

Do I need to add a poll? You guys don't honestly think Darwin's Theory of Evolution is fact right? If so then please give evidence now, or give up. I am not going to repeat myself anymore.

sSubZerOo

Evolution is fact, we have more evidence of it then any other Scientific theory out there.. Its a cornerstone of biology.. What is being constantly improved with the theory are the how's and why's numerous organisms have changed through out time.. Stop going on with this, you don't even know the first two things about science..

Not Darwin's Evolution. I said Darwin's Theory of Evolution read next time, I already said the Evolution proved fact in biology is something I agree with.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

Well Evolution is not my favorite subject, so of course I will make common mistakes. Although I know enough to agree that it is a Theory and has yet to become a fact.

Then there should be no arguement here, correct?

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

What does Darwin's theory of evolution have anything to do with knowing what a scientific theory is? Thats kind of a cornerstone to how we catalogue and explain scientific phenemnons.

needled24-7

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Speciation occurs when populations are split. For some basic evidence for this, please refer to Australian Marsupials.

RationalAtheist

I don't know, apes are all over the place and in areas with humans. You would think if there are native human's there, there wouldn't be apes.

Why not answer my previous post?

I don't think that, since I observe that species can co-exist. Is our genetic heritage not enough evidence for you?

I am sorry I would need Darwin's Evolution to be fact for me to believe. Just like you would want God/Religion as a fact to believe it. Now prove it as fact, or give up.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

Or you are, if Evolution is Fact, then give me the evidence, if not then move on.

VisigothSaxon

*Head explodes a second time in exasperation*

Come on dude, there aremillions of documents and scientific studies that have been done to test the validity of evolution. Do some research!

That does not make it fact, either provide what makes it fact or stop bringing it up.

Like I said in my first post, nothing is fact, but there are things that have such an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting them that they are taken as such.

You keep saying that it's not "fact", well name one thing that is "fact". Here's an example. The sky is blue? Prove it. Oh wait, you can't. You can only give a vast amount of evidence that supports your conclusion, but never prove it to a shadow of a doubt that it is fact. There are always uncertainties.

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"] :roll: I was just pointing out how bad it is over here , why do people take everything here too seriously ? being ignorent about something is not a bad thing , its how people usually learn ,I didnt know the difference and you told me , thats it ! Dont let it get even larger than it have to be .FMAB_GTO

Um, how will I not learn? Oh I think you are talking about yourself considering you won't share the evidence that proves Darwin's Evolution as fact. I mean you might as well share this evidence you would be famous.

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

I will post this again because you appear to have missed it.

Scientific theories are explanations. Do you know what an explanation is? here let me help. An explanation is a set of statements constructed to describe a set of facts which clarifies the causes, and consequences of those facts. A few examples of the facts that evolution has explained. Animals change over millions of years due to natural selection, Punctuated equilibrium has occurred, etc. Those statements are undeniable facts, and a theory is the pinnacle of scientific explanation.

VisigothSaxon

That does not make it fact. God and Religion are an explanation for our life and existence as well. Either prove it fact, or move on.

I know that a Scientific Theory is surrounded by evidence and facts, that does not make the Theory in of itself a fact now does it?

You're playing at semantics to try to make something look like something else. STOP IT! You choose to be willfully ignorant of the truth.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

Or you are, if Evolution is Fact, then give me the evidence, if not then move on.

VisigothSaxon

*Head explodes a second time in exasperation*

Come on dude, there aremillions of documents and scientific studies that have been done to test the validity of evolution. Do some research!

That does not make it fact, either provide what makes it fact or stop bringing it up.

:| I will say this for the last time.. Every biologist out there will say that evolution is fact, that it has happened and still continues to happen.. The theory of evolution is an all encompassing idea.. It just doesn't talk about evolution happening.. It explains how and why in countless ways.. It will always be changing and improving because we always finding more and new ways of how and why organisms evolve.. There is no point in even discussing this because you have no idea what

A) the foundations of science to begin with.. Whats a Scientific Law, a Scientific theory and numerous other things.. A scientific thoery, is not a "theory" it is something completely different.

B) You don't know basics of what the Theory of Evolution entails..

C) Your hypocritical.. Your giving a supposed extremely bias criticism on it supposedly not having enough evidence or what not.. But are propping up the Bible, a book that requires faith in metaphysics.. Something completely outside the realm of the natural world.

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"] :roll: I was just pointing out how bad it is over here , why do people take everything here too seriously ? being ignorent about something is not a bad thing , its how people usually learn ,I didnt know the difference and you told me , thats it ! Dont let it get even larger than it have to be .FMAB_GTO

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"] Scientific theories are comprised of facts. He's more than obliged to rage when statements like yours are made. sSubZerOo

The Bible is comprised of Historical Facts... See what I mean...

:| This thread is going to give me a stroke.. No it isn't.. We have no evidence Jesus walked on water, turned water into wine.. We have no evidence that a guy could live in a whale's stomach, or other such things.. They are not even the same.. Hence why Christianity and other religions require faith, because there is absolutly no real evidence to back up the mythological claims these books do..

yea i feel that way too, and I havent even participated yet.

Anyway, the way I see it is this:

Theory of Evolution = scientific theory supported by years of research, observations, and facts. As someone said, we have facts proving evolution, we just do not know exactly why it happens or for what purpose.

Imagine a room with a table, a chair, and an apple. Now this room is under constant surveillance, and only one person has entered it. Five minutes later they leave. So you go inside the room and observe; the apple is eaten, the chair is glued to the ceiling, and the table is knocked over. You may not know exactly how that person did those things, but you can assume he ate the apple. You can conduct experiments with different adhesives and duplicate how he glued the chair to the ceiling. You can test various ways a table can be knocked over.

You will never, ever know exactly how things went down in that room since it was sealed, but you know that A.) the contents of the room were undisturbed prior to entry, and B.) after entry the contents were changed.

ugh i hate analogies, i dont know why i bother.

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

*Head explodes a second time in exasperation*

Come on dude, there aremillions of documents and scientific studies that have been done to test the validity of evolution. Do some research!

redstorm72

That does not make it fact, either provide what makes it fact or stop bringing it up.

Like I said in my first post, nothing is fact, but there are things that have such an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting them that they are taken as such.

You keep saying that it's not "fact", well name one thing that is "fact". Here's an example. The sky is blue? Prove it. Oh wait, you can't. You can only give a vast amount of evidence that supports your conclusion, but never prove it to a shadow of a doubt that it is fact. There are always uncertainties.

Gravity is technically still a theory 99% of scientists have chosen is the best idea we have come up with for a lot of things that happen in this universe. So we label it as a Law. It's technically not fact. It just has piles and piles of evidence supporting it and is generally accepted by the scientific community to be the law governing the state of large objects in the world. The law of gravity however holds absolutely no merit when on the sub-atomic level when dealing with the strong and weak nuclear forces that hold atoms together. But it works pretty damn good for everything else. Same with a lot of phsycis and math.

The Theory of Evolution also has piles and piles of evidence from thousands of independent sources from across the planet who do scientific experiments and make general observations that can be redone over and over and over with the same results.

The only other theory of how humans came into being that is generally accepted in the western world is supported by 1 book with no observations, no reproducible scientific experiments, or any sorts of measurementsat all. It's still accepted based upon pure faith. There is absolutely no science behind it.

"Since you can't disprove it, it must be right" is not science, it's a argumentative fallacy that makes no sense. That's what the other theory soley relies on in the scientific community. Which is completely incorrect.

Wasdie

"The only other theory of how humans came into being that is generally accepted in the western world is supported by 1 book with no observations, no reproducible scientific experiments, or any sorts of measurementsat all. It's still accepted based upon pure faith. There is absolutely no science behind it." --This comment is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Thereare two schools of thought that have challenged the Theory ofEvolution lately,they areCreationism and the Theory or Intelligent Design. Lets generalize: Creationsists typicallyare young earth believers and take the Bible verbatim (or almost verbatim),and Intelligent Design supporters believe the universe/life is too complex by observation and mathmatics to believe in the Theory of Evolution. So you can believe in Creationsim and Intelligent design butsomeonecanbelieve in Intelligent Design and notCreationism(as defined above)There IS scientific evidence pointing to an intelligent designer, just like there is evidence to support the assumptions the Theory of Evolution believers espouse. Now the vast majority of the scientific community has focused on trying to prove the Theory of Evolution for years now. So is the majority of:observations, scientific experiments, or measurements are going to fall heavily on the side of "Evolution", but Quanity doesn't mean Quality.

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"][QUOTE="needled24-7"]but VigisothSaxon will not learn. it is scary that there are actually other people that think like that.

VisigothSaxon

Um, how will I not learn? Oh I think you are talking about yourself considering you won't share the evidence that proves Darwin's Evolution as fact. I mean you might as well share this evidence you would be famous.

Now prove it as fact, or give up.

VisigothSaxon

Religon is a hypothesis not a theory, for a hypothesis to become a theory it needs to be provided with evidence via a repeatable experiment and be peer reviewed by at least 2 other experts in the field. markop2003

It's not even a hypothesis since it's not observable.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

That is all inconsequential, both still cannot be proven/disproven regardless of what tools we have right now. The Bible as old as it is has yet to be proven/disproven the same goes for Darwin's Evolution.

VisigothSaxon

Disproof is a logical fallacy. Evolution is a theory, since evolution as a hypothesis has been proven as a "fact du jour" (or fact or the day) by the scientific community - independently and regardless of personal bias. This is because the scientific method accepts the relative nature of knowledge and thusly bases it's "models of understanding" (such as evolution) on the (massive) amount of evidence that supports it.

Gravity is also a good case in point too. The theory of gravity has been revised significantly in the last 100 years. Although Newton's original model still holds true for most casses, the extent of knowledge about the nature of gravity is far more now than it was then. Yet still there is so much for scientists still to discover!

I think the difference between religion and science is that science asks the questions, while never being satisfied that the sanswer is correct (due to the rational, deductive, open framework that is the scientific method. Whereas religions think they already know the answers to those questions and refuse to investigate alternative possibilities.

We can both agree though that Religion is heavily investigated and always trying do be disproven. Look at how extensively the bible is put under the microscope and yet it has not been proven/disproven just like evolution. Stop being ignorant people, I can accept the fact that both Evolution and Religion are not fact, why can't you? A Scientific Theory is still not a fact and stop using that argument.

Sorry, you did read it!

No, I think people try to resolve their religious views with an increasing rational world view. It is becoming natural to question things and being skeptical is considered to be ok for most people.

It all depends on what you consider a "fact" is. I'll stop using my above argument on the relativity of "facts" until you come up with a suitable counter to it, rather than calling me ignorant and demanding I stop.

What's wrong with putting the bible under a microscope? Wouldn't we all see God if it's true?

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"][QUOTE="needled24-7"]but VigisothSaxon will not learn. it is scary that there are actually other people that think like that.

needled24-7

Clearly it is the other way around. I do not have anything wrong with Scientific Facts. I am sorry Religion holds as much as Darwin's Theory does. You are beyond ignorant.

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

*Head explodes a second time in exasperation*

Come on dude, there aremillions of documents and scientific studies that have been done to test the validity of evolution. Do some research!

That does not make it fact, either provide what makes it fact or stop bringing it up.

Like I said in my first post, nothing is fact, but there are things that have such an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting them that they are taken as such.

You keep saying that it's not "fact", well name one thing that is "fact". Here's an example. The sky is blue? Prove it. Oh wait, you can't. You can only give a vast amount of evidence that supports your conclusion, but never prove it to a shadow of a doubt that it is fact. There are always uncertainties.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

You guys are showing no reason.

Do I need to add a poll? You guys don't honestly think Darwin's Theory of Evolution is fact right? If so then please give evidence now, or give up. I am not going to repeat myself anymore.

VisigothSaxon

Evolution is fact, we have more evidence of it then any other Scientific theory out there.. Its a cornerstone of biology.. What is being constantly improved with the theory are the how's and why's numerous organisms have changed through out time.. Stop going on with this, you don't even know the first two things about science..

Not Darwin's Evolution. I said Darwin's Theory of Evolution read next time, I already said the Evolution proved fact in biology is something I agree with.

So another words you support psuedo science of Intelligent design right? The mere fact that your trying to claim that to prove it, when in fact we have millions of pieces of evidence, yet your some how trying to put your religious beliefs in equal right when it doesn't have any evidence.. Thats called hypocrisy.. Either being equally as critical as your beliefs or stop posting.

I am sorry I would need Darwin's Evolution to be fact for me to believe. Just like you would want God/Religion as a fact to believe it. Now prove it as fact, or give up.

VisigothSaxon

No, - religion needs faith for belief, while scientific belief is based on rational deduction.

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"][QUOTE="needled24-7"]but VigisothSaxon will not learn. it is scary that there are actually other people that think like that.

VisigothSaxon

Um, how will I not learn? Oh I think you are talking about yourself considering you won't share the evidence that proves Darwin's Evolution as fact. I mean you might as well share this evidence you would be famous.

fact vs theory aside, let me ask you one question:

what is more likely?

Darwin?

or God?

Take into consideration the facts that support the theory of evolution, versus faith and the coincedental truths (i.e. yes, this place existed and, yes, a man named Jesus existed) of the Bible

[QUOTE="markop2003"]Religon is a hypothesis not a theory, for a hypothesis to become a theory it needs to be provided with evidence via a repeatable experiment and be peer reviewed by at least 2 other experts in the field. THE_DRUGGIE

It's not even a hypothesis since it's not observable.

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Disproof is a logical fallacy. Evolution is a theory, since evolution as a hypothesis has been proven as a "fact du jour" (or fact or the day) by the scientific community - independently and regardless of personal bias. This is because the scientific method accepts the relative nature of knowledge and thusly bases it's "models of understanding" (such as evolution) on the (massive) amount of evidence that supports it.

Gravity is also a good case in point too. The theory of gravity has been revised significantly in the last 100 years. Although Newton's original model still holds true for most casses, the extent of knowledge about the nature of gravity is far more now than it was then. Yet still there is so much for scientists still to discover!

I think the difference between religion and science is that science asks the questions, while never being satisfied that the sanswer is correct (due to the rational, deductive, open framework that is the scientific method. Whereas religions think they already know the answers to those questions and refuse to investigate alternative possibilities.

RationalAtheist

We can both agree though that Religion is heavily investigated and always trying do be disproven. Look at how extensively the bible is put under the microscope and yet it has not been proven/disproven just like evolution. Stop being ignorant people, I can accept the fact that both Evolution and Religion are not fact, why can't you? A Scientific Theory is still not a fact and stop using that argument.

Sorry, you did read it!

No, I think people try to resolve their religious views with an increasing rational world view. It is becoming natural to question things and being skeptical is considered to be ok for most people.

It all depends on what you consider a "fact" is. I'll stop using my above argument on the relativity of "facts" until you come up with a suitable counter to it, rather than calling me ignorant and demanding I stop.

What's wrong with putting the bible under a microscope? Wouldn't we all see God if it's true?

I had hoped with this thread would die early on, but people here cannot accept that it is just a theory.

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"][QUOTE="needled24-7"]but VigisothSaxon will not learn. it is scary that there are actually other people that think like that.

needled24-7

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"] .......................................Didn't get your point .mrbojangles25

Um, how will I not learn? Oh I think you are talking about yourself considering you won't share the evidence that proves Darwin's Evolution as fact. I mean you might as well share this evidence you would be famous.

fact vs theory aside, let me ask you one question:

what is more likely?

Darwin?

or God?

Take into consideration the facts that support the theory of evolution, versus faith and the coincedental truths (i.e. yes, this place existed and, yes, a man named Jesus existed) of the Bible

To me, God, why?

God answers way more questions of the universe. Darwin's Theory does not provide the same level of answers and does not connect the dots of mystery like God does.

Scientific Facts.

VisigothSaxon

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

That does not make it fact, either provide what makes it fact or stop bringing it up.

VisigothSaxon

Like I said in my first post, nothing is fact, but there are things that have such an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting them that they are taken as such.

You keep saying that it's not "fact", well name one thing that is "fact". Here's an example. The sky is blue? Prove it. Oh wait, you can't. You can only give a vast amount of evidence that supports your conclusion, but never prove it to a shadow of a doubt that it is fact. There are always uncertainties.

*Head explodes a third time*

Don't get all philosophical on me. I'm not trying to make Darwin's theory into more than a theory because a theory is already the highest level anything scientific can go. There is nothing in science that is fact, yet look at all the things we've done with these theories. Nothing can be proven to be without a shadow of a doubt to be fact, there is always uncertainty. Stop getting hung up on semantics.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

We can both agree though that Religion is heavily investigated and always trying do be disproven. Look at how extensively the bible is put under the microscope and yet it has not been proven/disproven just like evolution. Stop being ignorant people, I can accept the fact that both Evolution and Religion are not fact, why can't you? A Scientific Theory is still not a fact and stop using that argument.

VisigothSaxon

Sorry, you did read it!

No, I think people try to resolve their religious views with an increasing rational world view. It is becoming natural to question things and being skeptical is considered to be ok for most people.

It all depends on what you consider a "fact" is. I'll stop using my above argument on the relativity of "facts" until you come up with a suitable counter to it, rather than calling me ignorant and demanding I stop.

What's wrong with putting the bible under a microscope? Wouldn't we all see God if it's true?

I had hoped with this thread would die early on, but people here cannot accept that it is just a theory.

I feel the frustration is stemming from the fact that you are associating a scientific theory supported by facts...

...with a random theory, i.e. "something some dude just thought up"