Dear Mods, this long derailed crazy thread needs a lock please :) Thank you

Uh....me? I'm American. LJS9502_basic

Really?!?! I thought you were from Central America!

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Half-Way"]

like i said, research ;)

you can either look at theHuman Development Index or by others likeGlobal Peace Index,Gender Equality,Life expectancy ect.

you will be surprised how many times countries like norway and sweden are at the top

Half-Way

obviously, and you need to realize that the same is true for every county and mostly every single type of research EVER. Its impossible to take everything into account, there will always be either corruption or flaws.

the question is simply, is it enough to make a point? Or in the case of this thread, should we trust an opinion of a random nationalistic person on a gameing forum, or the only type of facts we have available?

il go with the facts, as long as people keep living in a dream world, they will never fix the problems in their society but rather ignore them.

There is a site that combines all sorts of information based on countries, and combines them into a overall score. Thats where i got the list of countries from. Feel free to research on your own, that is if you prefer facts. Nationalism and Patriotism can only get you as far. Its worth nothing in the real world.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Uh....me? I'm American. ToppledPillars

Really?!?! I thought you were from Central America!

[QUOTE="poptart"]But that would make this thread boring :(t3hrubikscube

[QUOTE="ToppledPillars"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Uh....me? I'm American. LJS9502_basic

Really?!?! I thought you were from Central America!

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="darktx2005"] Wikileaks revealed some of that for one. I'm not talking about Canada. I'm talking more about places like Pakistan and such. l4dak47

Pakistan has suffered the most because of this s*** war on terror.US doesnt help Pakistan

[QUOTE="t3hrubikscube"][QUOTE="poptart"]But that would make this thread boring :(SkyWard20

Now now - easy tiger...

[QUOTE="t3hrubikscube"][QUOTE="poptart"]But that would make this thread boring :(SkyWard20

[QUOTE="Decrate"]

...have you seen this video yet? its from wikileaks, it was released a while back and shows how stupid the armed forces can be; killing innocent reporters that looked like a threat. but you'll probably make up another excuse like you have been doing

Palantas

Some other facts as regards that video:

1. Those reporters were in the company of armed men who were carrying heavy weapons.
2. Those reporters and armed men were in close proximity to US ground forces.
3. US ground forces in this area had been under sporadic fire all morning.
4. The helicopters only engaged this group of armed men when they saw what they thought was an attempt to fire on US mounted elements.

But I'm sure you knew all that. I'm imagine you're well educated in small unit operations.

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You need to also realize that some things are omitted in compiling those statistics depending on country.LJS9502_basic

obviously, and you need to realize that the same is true for every county and mostly every single type of research EVER. Its impossible to take everything into account, there will always be either corruption or flaws.

the question is simply, is it enough to make a point? Or in the case of this thread, should we trust an opinion of a random nationalistic person on a gameing forum, or the only type of facts we have available?

il go with the facts, as long as people keep living in a dream world, they will never fix the problems in their society but rather ignore them.

There is a site that combines all sorts of information based on countries, and combines them into a overall score. Thats where i got the list of countries from. Feel free to research on your own, that is if you prefer facts. Nationalism and Patriotism can only get you as far. Its worth nothing in the real world.

for the same reason scientists believe in the big bang, there is no pure truth, but the evidence they have collected hints at a big probability.

TBH, I'm 50% for Wikileaks. Some documents are classified for a reason and should never see public eye; others should be leaked because they expose political lies. The politicians who exploit the American people's ignorance of their government need a slap in the face.

Also, people need to learn the definition of terrorism. It's kinda hilarious so many people misuse the term when it's hammered into our heads daily.

Upparoom

I would rather have too much information than too little. I was in the army and there are things that the amarican public should know about. Things that you are under orders not to talk about or even tell your family where have been or what you have seen.

for the same reason scientists believe in the big bang, there is no pure truth, but the evidence they have collected hints at a big probability.

Half-Way

[QUOTE="Palantas"]

[QUOTE="Decrate"]

...have you seen this video yet? its from wikileaks, it was released a while back and shows how stupid the armed forces can be; killing innocent reporters that looked like a threat. but you'll probably make up another excuse like you have been doing

Decrate

Some other facts as regards that video:

1. Those reporters were in the company of armed men who were carrying heavy weapons.
2. Those reporters and armed men were in close proximity to US ground forces.
3. US ground forces in this area had been under sporadic fire all morning.
4. The helicopters only engaged this group of armed men when they saw what they thought was an attempt to fire on US mounted elements.

But I'm sure you knew all that. I'm imagine you're well educated in small unit operations.

[QUOTE="Upparoom"]

TBH, I'm 50% for Wikileaks. Some documents are classified for a reason and should never see public eye; others should be leaked because they expose political lies. The politicians who exploit the American people's ignorance of their government need a slap in the face.

Also, people need to learn the definition of terrorism. It's kinda hilarious so many people misuse the term when it's hammered into our heads daily.

pimpog

I would rather have too much information than too little. I was in the army and there are things that the amarican public should know about. Things that you are under orders not to talk about or even tell your family where have been or what you have seen.

[QUOTE="pimpog"]

[QUOTE="Upparoom"]

TBH, I'm 50% for Wikileaks. Some documents are classified for a reason and should never see public eye; others should be leaked because they expose political lies. The politicians who exploit the American people's ignorance of their government need a slap in the face.

Also, people need to learn the definition of terrorism. It's kinda hilarious so many people misuse the term when it's hammered into our heads daily.

LJS9502_basic

I would rather have too much information than too little. I was in the army and there are things that the amarican public should know about. Things that you are under orders not to talk about or even tell your family where have been or what you have seen.

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

for the same reason scientists believe in the big bang, there is no pure truth, but the evidence they have collected hints at a big probability.

LJS9502_basic

um no, the thing they have in common is that, both try to find the truth based on the data they have. Instead of dismissing the Idea as a whole because there MIGHT be flaws. ;)

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

for the same reason scientists believe in the big bang, there is no pure truth, but the evidence they have collected hints at a big probability.

Half-Way

um no, the thing they have in common is that, both try to find the truth based on the data they have. Instead of dismissing the Idea as a whole because there MIGHT be flaws. ;)

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="pimpog"]

I would rather have too much information than too little. I was in the army and there are things that the amarican public should know about. Things that you are under orders not to talk about or even tell your family where have been or what you have seen.

darktx2005

Ok now your being sarcastic or have never served overseas in a combat zone.

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]There is a difference between scientists trying to figure things out...and knowingly using flawed statistics. Not a good analogy AT ALL.

LJS9502_basic

um no, the thing they have in common is that, both try to find the truth based on the data they have. Instead of dismissing the Idea as a whole because there MIGHT be flaws. ;)

flaws and corruption is something that needs to be taken into account when making any type of statistic, dose that mean we shouldnt trust any statistics?

For all we know the US could have even scored worse then it did. The question is simply if we should use the sources of information we have.

Thats the whole point of an argument, to find sources which support your claim or opinion.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Half-Way"]

um no, the thing they have in common is that, both try to find the truth based on the data they have. Instead of dismissing the Idea as a whole because there MIGHT be flaws. ;)

Half-Way

flaws and corruption is something that needs to be taken into account when making any type of statistic, dose that mean we shouldnt trust any statistics?

For all we know the US could have even scored worse then it did. The question is simply if we should use the sources of information we have.

Thats the whole point of an argument, to find sources which support your claim or opinion.

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Not at all. When you take statistics from two countries but omit part of one...you are NOT finding a comparative truth....you are finding an inaccurate statistic because the base information is not the same.LJS9502_basic

flaws and corruption is something that needs to be taken into account when making any type of statistic, dose that mean we shouldnt trust any statistics?

For all we know the US could have even scored worse then it did. The question is simply if we should use the sources of information we have.

Thats the whole point of an argument, to find sources which support your claim or opinion.

is this going to turn into a "what you know might be wrong" discussion? Simply because you cant look at your own country from a neutral perspective and dismiss statistics based on the the fact that they MIGHT be flawed or corrupted. Those statistics made by United Nations Development Programme. If you dont trust them, why would you even trust anything that someone else says?

Do you want us to turn this into a thread about philosophy and question everything that might be false? All because the USA didnt turn out to be "the best" country in the world which many of you claim.

Riddle me this. If this info was sent to BBC, or Fox, or MNSBC, would they be spies for reporting it? Would you be calling for these places owners ot be assassinated, and these places shut down?

Oh, and for the & for the "patriots",I ask you this about "freedom". What is Freedom when the people who gurantee your freedom take it away. By this i refer back to WW2, where Japanese Americans where forced into internment camps. Where were their freedoms? You base your country on freedoms that can be taken away at an instant, is thatnot called Tyranny? Does this not make you as bad as the people who want to willfully deny your freedoms?

And for the Romanian fellow here, what is your understanding of the US, have you been there? Do you study its history, its politics? If not then sometimes saying nothing makes you sound smarter than the man who knows everything. As he can make mistakes, while you cannot. But if you wish to speak, don't disagreefor the sake ofwith the man who knows everything, as he may be right in some places. Even if he's wrong in others.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

flaws and corruption is something that needs to be taken into account when making any type of statistic, dose that mean we shouldnt trust any statistics?

For all we know the US could have even scored worse then it did. The question is simply if we should use the sources of information we have.

Thats the whole point of an argument, to find sources which support your claim or opinion.

Half-Way

is this going to turn into a "what you know might be wrong" discussion? Simply because you cant look at your own country from a neutral perspective and dismiss statistics based on the the fact that they MIGHT be flawed or corrupted. Those statistics made by United Nations Development Programme. If you dont trust them, why would you even trust anything that someone else says?

Do you want us to turn this into a thread about philosophy and question everything that might be false? All because the USA didnt turn out to be "the best" country in the world which many of you claim.

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]And to discount those stats that don't accurately support a claim......though by making the stats the same the US would score higher.;)

Tetrarch9

is this going to turn into a "what you know might be wrong" discussion? Simply because you cant look at your own country from a neutral perspective and dismiss statistics based on the the fact that they MIGHT be flawed or corrupted. Those statistics made by United Nations Development Programme. If you dont trust them, why would you even trust anything that someone else says?

Do you want us to turn this into a thread about philosophy and question everything that might be false? All because the USA didnt turn out to be "the best" country in the world which many of you claim.

i live in norway, how about you

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

flaws and corruption is something that needs to be taken into account when making any type of statistic, dose that mean we shouldnt trust any statistics?

For all we know the US could have even scored worse then it did. The question is simply if we should use the sources of information we have.

Thats the whole point of an argument, to find sources which support your claim or opinion.

Half-Way

is this going to turn into a "what you know might be wrong" discussion? Simply because you cant look at your own country from a neutral perspective and dismiss statistics based on the the fact that they MIGHT be flawed or corrupted. Those statistics made by United Nations Development Programme. If you dont trust them, why would you even trust anything that someone else says?

Do you want us to turn this into a thread about philosophy and question everything that might be false? All because the USA didnt turn out to be "the best" country in the world which many of you claim.

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]And to discount those stats that don't accurately support a claim......though by making the stats the same the US would score higher.;)

LJS9502_basic

is this going to turn into a "what you know might be wrong" discussion? Simply because you cant look at your own country from a neutral perspective and dismiss statistics based on the the fact that they MIGHT be flawed or corrupted. Those statistics made by United Nations Development Programme. If you dont trust them, why would you even trust anything that someone else says?

Do you want us to turn this into a thread about philosophy and question everything that might be false? All because the USA didnt turn out to be "the best" country in the world which many of you claim.

i dont think you read my posts at all.

in a real argument you would need proof that my statistics are wrong, then i would go and find another source, and so on.

But you still havent showed ME proof. Why should i do all the work here, and your allowed to stay ignorant? I want a roll reversal now.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Half-Way"]

is this going to turn into a "what you know might be wrong" discussion? Simply because you cant look at your own country from a neutral perspective and dismiss statistics based on the the fact that they MIGHT be flawed or corrupted. Those statistics made by United Nations Development Programme. If you dont trust them, why would you even trust anything that someone else says?

Do you want us to turn this into a thread about philosophy and question everything that might be false? All because the USA didnt turn out to be "the best" country in the world which many of you claim.

Half-Way

i dont think you read my posts at all.

[QUOTE="Tetrarch9"]

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

is this going to turn into a "what you know might be wrong" discussion? Simply because you cant look at your own country from a neutral perspective and dismiss statistics based on the the fact that they MIGHT be flawed or corrupted. Those statistics made by United Nations Development Programme. If you dont trust them, why would you even trust anything that someone else says?

Do you want us to turn this into a thread about philosophy and question everything that might be false? All because the USA didnt turn out to be "the best" country in the world which many of you claim.

Half-Way

i live in norway, how about you

Hows the weather?

[QUOTE="Robbazking"]

Nah only die hard republicans believe that. The rest of the world just facepalm at america.

airshocker

Most Americans facepalm at the world as well. And we have a much better reason to.

Any one going to address my previous post?

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

Do you want us to turn this into a thread about philosophy and question everything that might be false? All because the USA didnt turn out to be "the best" country in the world which many of you claim.

thegerg

Those studies don't show that the US isn't the "best" nation or that another one is.

Flawed statistics aside, those studies do not identify a "best" country. "Best" is subjective. Such studies can't prove what teh "best" nation is.

you should have seen the beginning of this discussion before making an argument yourself.

Everyone is aware of subjectivity. I started this discussion because a user claimed Romania was a worse country then the USA, to which i responded "those countries are better, based on those statistics."

you need to clarify the basis of the argument. Then when arguing about something subjective you need to find data that support your opinion, then the opposite part should find sources which support their claim.

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

[QUOTE="Tetrarch9"]I have to ask because of your past posts. What country do you live in Half-Way?

Tetrarch9

i live in norway, how about you

Hows the weather?

snowed earlier today and yesterday, gotta love it :P

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

Any one going to address my previous post?

Attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention, attention.

Is that enough for now?

Any one going to address my previous post?

lordreaven

Riddle me this. If this info was sent to BBC, or Fox, or MNSBC, would they be spies for reporting it? Would you be calling for these places owners ot be assassinated, and these places shut down?

Oh, and for the & for the "patriots",I ask you this about "freedom". What is Freedom when the people who gurantee your freedom take it away. By this i refer back to WW2, where Japanese Americans where forced into internment camps. Where were their freedoms? You base your country on freedoms that can be taken away at an instant, is thatnot called Tyranny? Does this not make you as bad as the people who want to willfully deny your freedoms?

And for the Romanian fellow here, what is your understanding of the US, have you been there? Do you study its history, its politics? If not then sometimes saying nothing makes you sound smarter than the man who knows everything. As he can make mistakes, while you cannot. But if you wish to speak, don't disagree with the man who knows everything, as he may be right in some places. Even if he's wrong in others.

lordreaven

Wikileaks exercises journalism. That's all I can say.

But I'm Romanian too, so I can address the second half of the post:P I've never been to the USA. We study its history and politics... although kids today are very stupid so that doesn't make a difference. We're stuck between Russia and the western world. It was always like this. People have to take sides.

Riddle me this. If this info was sent to BBC, or Fox, or MNSBC, would they be spies for reporting it? Would you be calling for these places owners ot be assassinated, and these places shut down? It was sent to the New York times the biggest newspaper in America.an No ones called them spies.

Oh, and for the & for the "patriots",I ask you this about "freedom". What is Freedom when the people who gurantee your freedom take it away. By this i refer back to WW2, where Japanese Americans where forced into internment camps. Where were their freedoms? You base your country on freedoms that can be taken away at an instant, is thatnot called Tyranny? Does this not make you as bad as the people who want to willfully deny your freedoms? That is something that all americans. (Except for the racists) Regret and look at as a dark part of american history. And something like that would never happen in Modern America though you can argue thatmajor discrimation is going on against muslims. Like most of the West.

And for the Romanian fellow here, what is your understanding of the US, have you been there? Do you study its history, its politics? If not then sometimes saying nothing makes you sound smarter than the man who knows everything. As he can make mistakes, while you cannot. But if you wish to speak, don't disagree with the man who knows everything, as he may be right in some places. Even if he's wrong in others.

lordreaven

[QUOTE="Tetrarch9"]

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

i live in norway, how about you

Half-Way

Hows the weather?

snowed earlier today and yesterday, gotta love it :P

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

Any one going to address my previous post?

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

Riddle me this. If this info was sent to BBC, or Fox, or MNSBC, would they be spies for reporting it? Would you be calling for these places owners ot be assassinated, and these places shut down?

Oh, and for the & for the "patriots",I ask you this about "freedom". What is Freedom when the people who gurantee your freedom take it away. By this i refer back to WW2, where Japanese Americans where forced into internment camps. Where were their freedoms? You base your country on freedoms that can be taken away at an instant, is thatnot called Tyranny? Does this not make you as bad as the people who want to willfully deny your freedoms?

And for the Romanian fellow here, what is your understanding of the US, have you been there? Do you study its history, its politics? If not then sometimes saying nothing makes you sound smarter than the man who knows everything. As he can make mistakes, while you cannot. But if you wish to speak, don't disagree with the man who knows everything, as he may be right in some places. Even if he's wrong in others.

Wikileaks exercises journalism. That's all I can say.

But I'm Romanian too, so I can address the second half of the post:P I've never been to the USA. We study its history and politics... although kids today are very stupid so that doesn't make a difference. We're stuck between Russia and the western world. It was always like this. People have to take sides.

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

Riddle me this. If this info was sent to BBC, or Fox, or MNSBC, would they be spies for reporting it? Would you be calling for these places owners ot be assassinated, and these places shut down? It was sent to the New York times the biggest newspaper in America.an No ones called them spies.

Oh, and for the & for the "patriots",I ask you this about "freedom". What is Freedom when the people who gurantee your freedom take it away. By this i refer back to WW2, where Japanese Americans where forced into internment camps. Where were their freedoms? You base your country on freedoms that can be taken away at an instant, is thatnot called Tyranny? Does this not make you as bad as the people who want to willfully deny your freedoms? That is something that all americans. (Except for the racists) Regret and look at as a dark part of american history. And something like that would never happen in Modern America though you can argue thatmajor discrimation is going on against muslims. Like most of the West.

And for the Romanian fellow here, what is your understanding of the US, have you been there? Do you study its history, its politics? If not then sometimes saying nothing makes you sound smarter than the man who knows everything. As he can make mistakes, while you cannot. But if you wish to speak, don't disagree with the man who knows everything, as he may be right in some places. Even if he's wrong in others.

Tetrarch9

Riddle me this. If this info was sent to BBC, or Fox, or MNSBC, would they be spies for reporting it? Would you be calling for these places owners ot be assassinated, and these places shut down?

Oh, and for the & for the "patriots",I ask you this about "freedom". What is Freedom when the people who gurantee your freedom take it away. By this i refer back to WW2, where Japanese Americans where forced into internment camps. Where were their freedoms? You base your country on freedoms that can be taken away at an instant, is thatnot called Tyranny? Does this not make you as bad as the people who want to willfully deny your freedoms?

And for the Romanian fellow here, what is your understanding of the US, have you been there? Do you study its history, its politics? If not then sometimes saying nothing makes you sound smarter than the man who knows everything. As he can make mistakes, while you cannot. But if you wish to speak, don't disagree with the man who knows everything, as he may be right in some places. Even if he's wrong in others.

lordreaven

Should a journalist or journalistic organization ever get punished for printing the truth? Well no it shouldn't – that's a slippery slope...