Do You Believe Jesus Christ Rose From The Dead? (Poll)

Radical behavior change in those people does not change anything. Do you not get it? Eyewitness accounts=thrown out as evidence due to no collaborating evidence and a very obvious bias in the witnesses.

500 eyewitness accounts, as opposed to thousands of people to whom he preached and who witnessed him over their lifetimes who never saw him rise from the dead. 500 is not that large a number, I could fabricate a story and have 500 eyewitnesses by this time next week. Doesn't it strike you as the least bit suspicious that Jesus appeared ONLY to his followers and told them to go out and spread his word, and that the chosen will just believe you and those who don't are not chosen?

theone86

Your assertion is refuted by the resurrected appearance of Jesus to Saul, a non-believing perscutor of the early Christians who became known as Paul, the greatest earthly missionary to ever live. as well as to many other non-believers, even James.

Quite the contray. The eyewitness testimony and other evidence such as the dramatic change in the behavior of the Apostles after seeing the resurrected Christ, confirm the veracity of the resurrection account of Jesus Christ by historical standards.blackregiment

[QUOTE="theone86"]

500 eyewitness accounts, as opposed to thousands of people to whom he preached and who witnessed him over their lifetimes who never saw him rise from the dead. 500 is not that large a number, I could fabricate a story and have 500 eyewitnesses by this time next week. Doesn't it strike you as the least bit suspicious that Jesus appeared ONLY to his followers and told them to go out and spread his word, and that the chosen will just believe you and those who don't are not chosen?

blackregiment

Your assertion is refuted by the resurrected appearance of Jesus to Saul, a non-believing perscutor of the early Christians who became known as Paul, the greatest earthly missionary to ever live. as well as to many other non-believers, even James.

A. Don't get me started on Paul. If there is one biblical author I cannot stand it is Paul. Even 2000 years ago born-agains were nuts.

B. The only person who witnessed Jesus was Paul himself. It is not at all possible that something else triggered his change of heart and that he fabricated the story of god appearing to him in order to get more people to follow him?

Radical behavior change in those people does not change anything. Do you not get it? Eyewitness accounts=thrown out as evidence due to no collaborating evidence and a very obvious bias in the witnesses.theone86

GOD and Science go hand in hand. They are one in the same. Fact - Everything is created from matter. That is how we are able to study life and the things that exist in it. GOD created this Earth and the Heavens so He not only is supernatural, but also Scientific. I don't have any long quotes for the GS viewers to view nor do I feel that I must fight tooth and nail to prove that Jesus is who He is. I just know inside that if I (being a believer in Christ as my savior) am right that all will bow before Him as their Lord and that everyone will know that this isn't false teaching, but if Atheists are correct then it doesn't matter any way because there will be no final judgement and no after life. I'll take my chances w/ believing:)

After 60 million years of research on the universe, i could tell you that gods and godlike beings does exist. Life doesn't just appear out of nowhere or at random, life was created from the original Deity. even if you believe the earth was made up of gas, you have to think where does the gas came from. look at yourself see how well you are designed. even if you think we evolved from something, where does that something came from? the universe is immeasurable and incomprehensible even to your greatest minds.Laughing_God

After 60 million years of research on the universe, i could tell you that gods and godlike beings does exist. Life doesn't just appear out of nowhere or at random, life was created from the original Deity. even if you believe the earth was made up of gas, you have to think where does the gas came from. look at yourself see how well you are designed. even if you think we evolved from something, where does that something came from? the universe is immeasurable and incomprehensible even to your greatest minds.Laughing_God

Radical behavior change in those people does not change anything. Do you not get it? Eyewitness accounts=thrown out as evidence due to no collaborating evidence and a very obvious bias in the witnesses.

theone86

And policemen are biased against criminal activity yet their testimony against criminals is not "thrown out" as biased. There are over 500 corroborating witnesses recorded in the New Testament. If one understands the rules of evidence as it relates to eyewitnesses, then they will know that for the testimony of a witness to be discounted one must show that they are not truthful. You are welcome to submit evidence that proves that the eyewitnesses in the Bible were not being truthful.

Oh and by they way, your personal opinion is not valid evidence.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

500 eyewitness accounts, as opposed to thousands of people to whom he preached and who witnessed him over their lifetimes who never saw him rise from the dead. 500 is not that large a number, I could fabricate a story and have 500 eyewitnesses by this time next week. Doesn't it strike you as the least bit suspicious that Jesus appeared ONLY to his followers and told them to go out and spread his word, and that the chosen will just believe you and those who don't are not chosen?

theone86

Your assertion is refuted by the resurrected appearance of Jesus to Saul, a non-believing perscutor of the early Christians who became known as Paul, the greatest earthly missionary to ever live. as well as to many other non-believers, even James.

A. Don't get me started on Paul. If there is one biblical author I cannot stand it is Paul. Even 2000 years ago born-agains were nuts.

B. The only person who witnessed Jesus was Paul himself. It is not at all possible that something else triggered his change of heart and that he fabricated the story of god appearing to him in order to get more people to follow him?

You might want to read the Bible before making statements like that.

[QUOTE="Laughing_God"]After 60 million years of research on the universe, i could tell you that gods and godlike beings does exist. Life doesn't just appear out of nowhere or at random, life was created from the original Deity. even if you believe the earth was made up of gas, you have to think where does the gas came from. look at yourself see how well you are designed. even if you think we evolved from something, where does that something came from? the universe is immeasurable and incomprehensible even to your greatest minds.Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Laughing_God"]After 60 million years of research on the universe, i could tell you that gods and godlike beings does exist. Life doesn't just appear out of nowhere or at random, life was created from the original Deity. even if you believe the earth was made up of gas, you have to think where does the gas came from. look at yourself see how well you are designed. even if you think we evolved from something, where does that something came from? the universe is immeasurable and incomprehensible even to your greatest minds.Laughing_God

[QUOTE="Laughing_God"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]How do you know?

Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Laughing_God"] i did my research and i have the documents.Laughing_God

I seriously doubt it, of course I cannot say for sure that he didn't, but I am pretty damn confident that, no he did not, I would even be willing to bet my life that he didn't.

I seriously doubt it, of course I cannot say for sure that he didn't, but I am pretty damn confident that, no he did not, I would even be willing to bet my life that he didn't.

bethwo

It's funny...after I read what you wrote all I could do is think...well, not really your life, but rather your soul:?

[QUOTE="bethwo"]

I seriously doubt it, of course I cannot say for sure that he didn't, but I am pretty damn confident that, no he did not, I would even be willing to bet my life that he didn't.

It's funny...after I read what you wrote all I could do is think...well, not really your life, but rather your soul:?

I picked yes, because I'm a Christian and that's what I believe. The second option says, "No. People don't rise from the dead!" Well, Jesus wasn't a person. He was and is the Son of God.zeppelin_64

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

[QUOTE="bethwo"]

I seriously doubt it, of course I cannot say for sure that he didn't, but I am pretty damn confident that, no he did not, I would even be willing to bet my life that he didn't.

Engrish_Major

It's funny...after I read what you wrote all I could do is think...well, not really your life, but rather your soul:?

Here we go. I know where this discussion will lead before it even plays out, but yes the answer to your question is 'YES'. The only way to the father is through the Son...The only way to be saved is by believing in Jesus Christ.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

It's funny...after I read what you wrote all I could do is think...well, not really your life, but rather your soul:?

Here we go. I know where this discussion will lead before it even plays out, but yes the answer to your question is 'YES'. The only way to the father is through the Son...The only way to be saved is by believing in Jesus Christ.

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

[QUOTE="bethwo"]

I seriously doubt it, of course I cannot say for sure that he didn't, but I am pretty damn confident that, no he did not, I would even be willing to bet my life that he didn't.

Engrish_Major

It's funny...after I read what you wrote all I could do is think...well, not really your life, but rather your soul:?

Yes! The Prince of Preachers Charles Haddon Sprurgeon said of Christ,

Turn aside and see this great sight-
an incarnate God upon the cross;
a substitute atoning for mortal guilt;
a sacrifice satisfying the vengeance of heaven;
and delivering the rebellious sinner.

Here is essential wisdom; enthroned, crowned, glorified.

The gospel is the sum of wisdom;
an epitome of knowledge;
a treasure-house of truth;
and a revelation of mysterious secrets.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

It's funny...after I read what you wrote all I could do is think...well, not really your life, but rather your soul:?

zmbi_gmr

Here we go. I know where this discussion will lead before it even plays out, but yes the answer to your question is 'YES'. The only way to the father is through the Son...The only way to be saved is by believing in Jesus Christ.

This reminds me of a good quote from C.S. Lewis;

"But the truth is God has not told us what His arrangements about the other people are. We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him."

I am Christian, and thus believe in Christ, but I like his line of thinking.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

It's funny...after I read what you wrote all I could do is think...well, not really your life, but rather your soul:?

maheo30

Yes! The Prince of Preachers Charles Haddon Sprurgeon said of Christ,

Turn aside and see this great sight-
an incarnate God upon the cross;
a substitute atoning for mortal guilt;
a sacrifice satisfying the vengeance of heaven;
and delivering the rebellious sinner.

Here is essential wisdom; enthroned, crowned, glorified.

The gospel is the sum of wisdom;
an epitome of knowledge;
a treasure-house of truth;
and a revelation of mysterious secrets.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Your assertion is refuted by the resurrected appearance of Jesus to Saul, a non-believing perscutor of the early Christians who became known as Paul, the greatest earthly missionary to ever live. as well as to many other non-believers, even James.

A. Don't get me started on Paul. If there is one biblical author I cannot stand it is Paul. Even 2000 years ago born-agains were nuts.

B. The only person who witnessed Jesus was Paul himself. It is not at all possible that something else triggered his change of heart and that he fabricated the story of god appearing to him in order to get more people to follow him?

You might want to read the Bible before making statements like that.

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"] We can only get to heaven by believing in Christ?Engrish_Major

Here we go. I know where this discussion will lead before it even plays out, but yes the answer to your question is 'YES'. The only way to the father is through the Son...The only way to be saved is by believing in Jesus Christ.

Do you believe everything you read? :lol: I will have to check that out over lunch today to see what it says before I put my two cents in...

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

Here we go. I know where this discussion will lead before it even plays out, but yes the answer to your question is 'YES'. The only way to the father is through the Son...The only way to be saved is by believing in Jesus Christ.

Do you believe everything you read? :lol: I will have to check that out over lunch today to see what it says before I put my two cents in...

[QUOTE="maheo30"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"] We can only get to heaven by believing in Christ?Engrish_Major

Yes! The Prince of Preachers Charles Haddon Sprurgeon said of Christ,

Turn aside and see this great sight-
an incarnate God upon the cross;
a substitute atoning for mortal guilt;
a sacrifice satisfying the vengeance of heaven;
and delivering the rebellious sinner.

Here is essential wisdom; enthroned, crowned, glorified.

The gospel is the sum of wisdom;
an epitome of knowledge;
a treasure-house of truth;
and a revelation of mysterious secrets.

I most certainly am. I'm a 5 pt. calvinist :D! Spurgeon was a calvinist as well. Here's proof,

The following is from Spurgeon's sermon,
The Widow of Sarepta. #817. 1 Kings 17:8, 9.

None of us have any right to God's mercy.

Election is an indisputable truth of Christianity,
and one full of the richest comfort to the child
of God- one which is intended to kindle in him
perpetual flames of adoring gratitude. It is a
truth which lays him low, and makes him feel
that there is nothing in him, and then raises
him up and bids him, like a seraph, adore
before the throne!

Distinguishing grace is a fact; prize this
truth and hold it firmly. Thank God that
you are made a partaker of his eternal love.

The sovereign electing grace of God
chooses us to repentance, to faith, and
afterwards to holiness of living, to Christian
service, to zeal, and to devotion.

Election should be to you savory meat such as
Isaac's soul loved; and as you feed upon it you
will become like the three holy children in Babylon,
both fatter and fairer and more lovely than those
who have not received this precious truth.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

And it is not wise to totally discount it either, especially when the authors gave their lives rather than recant their faith in the events they were eyewitness to.

The guidelines you posted support the veracity of what the Gospel writers recorded, especially in light of the historical setting, the persecution they endured, and the dramatic change in their attitude and boldness in spreading the Gospel after the resurrected Jesus appeared to them. They went from timid, dispersed, and crushed individuals after the crucifixion, to bold preachers of the Gospel, defying the Jewish authorities, right in Jerusalem, the very city where Christ was crucified.

Act 5:24 Now when the high priest and the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these things, they doubted of them whereunto this would grow.
Act 5:25 Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.
Act 5:26 Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.
Act 5:27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
Act 5:28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Act 5:33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

blackregiment

The Bible records over 500 eyewitness to the resurrected Christ. Perhaps you can bring forth the evidence from those, living at the time, that disputes the resurrection. Let's keep score. Right now the score is 500 for and 0 against. I will be waiting. :)

The Apostles were biased, biased enough to die for what they saw. They put their lives on the line.

The Apostles and early Christians were stoned, beheaded, boiled in oil, imprisoned, crucified, scourged, fed to lions, clothed in animal skins and then torn apart by wild beasts, tarred and lit on fire, disemboweled, burnt at the stake, etc., rather than recant their faith.

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"] Well, in Romans 8:30, Ephesians 1:5, and 2 Thessalonians 2:13, the bible suggests that god pre-chooses who believes and who does not. So, those of us who do not believe are automatically destined for hell anyway.Engrish_Major

Do you believe everything you read? :lol: I will have to check that out over lunch today to see what it says before I put my two cents in...

It's funny that you took my comment so seriously when clearly what I wrote to you was in fun:?

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] And I have not totally discounted it either. However, I approach eyewitness testimony with extreme skepticism. And I don't see how you can say that R.J. Shafer's guidelines support what the Gospel writers recorded. They were incredibly biased, among other things. And one only has to look at question number four, which asks "4. Do his statements seem inherently improbable: e.g., contrary to human nature, or in conflict with what we know?". That alone puts the resurrection of Christ under a great deal of scrutiny; so much scrutiny that it requires much more than mere eyewitness testimony and an empty tomb to verify.

The Bible records over 500 eyewitness to the resurrected Christ. Perhaps you can bring forth the evidence from those, living at the time, that disputes the resurrection. Let's keep score. Right now the score is 500 for and 0 against. I will be waiting. :)

The Apostles were biased, biased enough to die for what they saw. They put their lives on the line.

The Apostles and early Christians were stoned, beheaded, boiled in oil, imprisoned, crucified, scourged, fed to lions, clothed in animal skins and then torn apart by wild beasts, tarred and lit on fire, disemboweled, burnt at the stake, etc., rather than recant their faith.

I most certainly am. I'm a 5 pt. calvinist :D! maheo30

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]I am still waiting for your eyewitness testimony. The score remains 500-0. :)Engrish_Major

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

The Bible records over 500 eyewitness to the resurrected Christ. Perhaps you can bring forth the evidence from those, living at the time, that disputes the resurrection. Let's keep score. Right now the score is 500 for and 0 against. I will be waiting. :)

The Apostles were biased, biased enough to die for what they saw. They put their lives on the line.

The Apostles and early Christians were stoned, beheaded, boiled in oil, imprisoned, crucified, scourged, fed to lions, clothed in animal skins and then torn apart by wild beasts, tarred and lit on fire, disemboweled, burnt at the stake, etc., rather than recant their faith.

[QUOTE="bethwo"]

I seriously doubt it, of course I cannot say for sure that he didn't, but I am pretty damn confident that, no he did not, I would even be willing to bet my life that he didn't.

zmbi_gmr

It's funny...after I read what you wrote all I could do is think...well, not really your life, but rather your soul:?

Absolutely I do.

There's too much contradiction betweeen the different books of the new testament so I'm not going to take the story seriously.

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"] We can only get to heaven by believing in Christ?Engrish_Major

Here we go. I know where this discussion will lead before it even plays out, but yes the answer to your question is 'YES'. The only way to the father is through the Son...The only way to be saved is by believing in Jesus Christ.

God does choose or elect some to be used in working His plan here on earth. Abraham, Moses, and Saul (Paul) are some examples. In addition though, salvation is freely available to those that seek the truth in Christ. God want everyone to come to the truth in Christ.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

God does choose or elect some to be used in working His plan here on earth. Abraham, Moses, and Saul (Paul) are some examples. In addition though, salvation is freely available to those that seek the truth in Christ. God want everyone to come to the truth in Christ.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

blackregiment

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

A. Don't get me started on Paul. If there is one biblical author I cannot stand it is Paul. Even 2000 years ago born-agains were nuts.

B. The only person who witnessed Jesus was Paul himself. It is not at all possible that something else triggered his change of heart and that he fabricated the story of god appearing to him in order to get more people to follow him?

maheo30

You might want to read the Bible before making statements like that.

That'a about the only argument they have to fall back on and they can offer no proof that the New Testament writers were lying. All they can offer is their personal opinion, like we are just supposed to believe their personal opinion. :)

A common occurance in these threads is that the non-believers consistently offer nothing more that personal opinions to support their position. :)

[QUOTE="maheo30"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

You might want to read the Bible before making statements like that.

blackregiment

That'a about the only argument they have to fall back on and they can offer no proof that the New Testament writers were lying. All they can offer is their personal opinion, like we are just supposed to believe their personal opinion. :)

A common occurance in these threads is that the non-believers consistently offer nothing more that personal opinions to support their position. :)

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]God does choose or elect some to be used in working His plan here on earth. Abraham, Moses, and Saul (Paul) are some examples. In addition though, salvation is freely available to those that seek the truth in Christ. God want everyone to come to the truth in Christ.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Engrish_Major

That would be funny if your assertion were true, which it is not. In Aisa, the Christian Church is growing at a rapid rate. In fact, they are sending missionaries to the western world.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="maheo30"] I'm so tired of the "they were liars argument." Such a statement shows a complete ignorance of Paul and his life as a pharisee and a jew as well as the times in which he lived. If Paul lies about it he gets caught by the other apostles. They lived in a community. They weren't isolated. -Sun_Tzu-

That'a about the only argument they have to fall back on and they can offer no proof that the New Testament writers were lying. All they can offer is their personal opinion, like we are just supposed to believe their personal opinion. :)

A common occurance in these threads is that the non-believers consistently offer nothing more that personal opinions to support their position. :)

You supplied a list of points on how the veracity of a historical event and testimony about that event is considered and evaluated. That is hardly "proof" that the New Testament authors were liars, that Christ did not rise from the grave.

That would be funny if your assertion were true, which it is not. In Aisa, the Christian Church is growing at a rapid rate. In fact, they are sending missionaries to the western world.

blackregiment

[QUOTE="maheo30"]I most certainly am. I'm a 5 pt. calvinist :D! Engrish_Major

I most certainly am. I'm a 5 pt. calvinist :D! maheo30

[QUOTE="maheo30"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

You might want to read the Bible before making statements like that.

That'a about the only argument they have to fall back on and they can offer no proof that the New Testament writers were lying. All they can offer is their personal opinion, like we are just supposed to believe their personal opinion. :)

A common occurance in these threads is that the non-believers consistently offer nothing more that personal opinions to support their position. :)

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

That would be funny if your assertion were true, which it is not. In Aisa, the Christian Church is growing at a rapid rate. In fact, they are sending missionaries to the western world.

Engrish_Major

You are moving the goal posts. You stated that God "predestines" more people in those countries. Now you are trying to say that because their are more people that identify thmeselvs as Christians in western countries that that means the same thing. It does not.

I explained the difference in election where God chooses some to be used in His work and the ability of all to freely seek the truth of the Lord in Christ.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.