Eight Programs That Have Already Faced Devastating Budget Cuts

Savings is down and spending is up... hmmm.... doesn't sound like consumers are hoarding cash, does it?

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/business/us-saving-down-spending-up-322342.html

jimkabrhel

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"] We already did that part with the Fed throwing trillions at the economy and 'stimulus'. That Keynesian effect is why we are now in a liquidity trap. KC_Hokie

>fed

>fiscal stimulus

ruseriousbro

http://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygreenstein/2011/09/20/the-feds-16-trillion-bailouts-under-reported/

Alright hokie I guess we have to go back to basics

The fed dictates monetary policy

It has no say in the government's fiscal policy

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

Savings is down and spending is up... hmmm.... doesn't sound like consumers are hoarding cash, does it?

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/business/us-saving-down-spending-up-322342.html

KC_Hokie

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/28/news/economy/income_spending/index.htm

Savings rate falls to lowest level since 2007

Now what?

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

Savings is down and spending is up... hmmm.... doesn't sound like consumers are hoarding cash, does it?

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/business/us-saving-down-spending-up-322342.html

jimkabrhel

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/28/news/economy/income_spending/index.htm

Savings rate falls to lowest level since 2007

Now what?

1. It's not like we have a choice. Budgets are finite. We can't fund everything we want.

2. Outside of the big cities like New York and LA, the military is the main thing that holds the economy up. Many rural states don't HAVE an economy beyond food production. The only thing that keeps these states functioning is huge military expenditures.

3. You should also understand that military R&D is a huge part of our economy. It's our primary export and manufacturing base.

4. There is a credible case to be made that education, WIC, healthcare, etc, is not the federal govt's job, they are the job of state governments who are more in tune with what the local needs are. Why do we have bureacrats in DC handling education in Mesquite, Wyoming 2000 miles away or Los Angeles 3000 miles away? LOCAL LOCAL LOCAL.

5. We are a (geographically) huge country. It does not make sense to have all govt functions centralized. That's why we have states. The main responsibility of the federal govt is national defense. The rest should be handled locally, depending on needs and budget.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] >we already did that part with the fed

>fed

>fiscal stimulus

ruseriousbro

-Sun_Tzu-

http://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygreenstein/2011/09/20/the-feds-16-trillion-bailouts-under-reported/

Alright hokie I guess we have to go back to basics

The fed dictates monetary policy

It has no say in the government's fiscal policy

Our economy got a triple whammy from the federal government....'stimulus', trillions thrown at it from the Fed, and massive government spending and debt (increasing debt to $16 trillion).

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Have you been living on mars? Fed pumped $16 trillion into economy. Debt has increased $10 trillion under Obama.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygreenstein/2011/09/20/the-feds-16-trillion-bailouts-under-reported/

KC_Hokie

Alright hokie I guess we have to go back to basics

The fed dictates monetary policy

It has no say in the government's fiscal policy

Our economy got a triple whammy from the federal government....'stimulus', trillions thrown at it from the Fed, and massive government spending and debt (increasing debt to $16 trillion).

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

Alright hokie I guess we have to go back to basics

The fed dictates monetary policy

It has no say in the government's fiscal policy

-Sun_Tzu-

Our economy got a triple whammy from the federal government....'stimulus', trillions thrown at it from the Fed, and massive government spending and debt (increasing debt to $16 trillion).

Even Keynes said his theory was short term and not intended for extended periods. Debt piling up wasn't supposed to be perpetual and should be paid off in better time.

Obama wants to double down on the government spending.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"] The Fed is part of the Federal Government.

Our economy got a triple whammy from the federal government....'stimulus', trillions thrown at it from the Fed, and massive government spending and debt (increasing debt to $16 trillion).

KC_Hokie

Even Keynes said his theory was short term and not intended for extended periods. Debt piling up wasn't supposed to be perpetual and should be paid off in better time.

Obama wants to double down on the government spending.

wow

We were already in a liquidity trap before the government did anything to fight recession. The reason why there was a stimulus bill in the first place was because of the fear that monetary policy had become useless, so the determination was made that expansionary fiscal policy was necessary. 

You really don't know what a liquidity trap is, you don't seem to have even a basic understanding of economics, you're just continuing to reveal your own profound ignorance. 

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Yes the fed is part of the federal government (how much of a part is a subject of debate). That does not mean it has any authority on fiscal matters. 

-Sun_Tzu-

Even Keynes said his theory was short term and not intended for extended periods. Debt piling up wasn't supposed to be perpetual and should be paid off in better time.

Obama wants to double down on the government spending.

wow

We were already in a liquidity trap before the government did anything to fight recession. The reason why there was a stimulus bill in the first place was because of the fear that monetary policy had become useless, so the determination was made that expansionary fiscal policy was necessary. 

You really don't know what a liquidity trap is, you don't seem to have even a basic understanding of economics, you're just continuing to reveal your own profound ignorance. 

The last thing we should do now is more government spending.

Again, even Keynes said his theory was short term. He never said debt should pile up over a decade or more. He specifically stated when the economy started recovering that spending should slow down and that debt paid off.

OK but then 'stimulus' was tried by the Fed, government spending and Obama's 'stimulus'. Investment went up with interest rates hitting historic lows. Once the Keynesian effect stops, which is what has happened, you enter into a liquidity trap.

 

KC_Hokie

This is an asinine statement. 

We didn't just enter a liquidity trap, we've been in a liquidity trap for over 4 years now. The government's countercyclical policies didn't cause this liquidity trap, it was caused by the global collapse of the financial industry and the subsequent recession. 

But you're at least partially right, interest rates are at record lows. The fear of a high national debt and deficit is that they tend to raise interest rates, and that rise in interest rates is what harms the economy. 

But our national debt and deficit has not resulted in high interest rates, which is why I have been asking you if not through higher interest rates, through what mechanism is the national debt and deficit harming the economy? 

Who got this idea into your head that the existence of a liquidity trap proves that we need draconian deficit reduction? Don't listen to them anymore about anything. 

In fact, stop listening to everyone you are getting information from about everything. 

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]OK but then 'stimulus' was tried by the Fed, government spending and Obama's 'stimulus'. Investment went up with interest rates hitting historic lows. Once the Keynesian effect stops, which is what has happened, you enter into a liquidity trap.

 

-Sun_Tzu-

This is an asinine statement. 

We didn't just enter a liquidity trap, we've been in a liquidity trap for over 4 years now. The government's countercyclical policies didn't cause this liquidity trap, it was caused by the global collapse of the financial industry and the subsequent recession. 

But you're at least partially right, interest rates are at record lows. The fear of a high national debt and deficit is that they tend to raise interest rates, and that rise in interest rates is what harms the economy. 

But our national debt and deficit has not resulted in high interest rates, which is why I have been asking you if not through higher interest rates, through what mechanism is the national debt and deficit harming the economy? 

Who got this idea into your head that the existence of a liquidity trap proves that we need draconian deficit reduction? Don't listen to them anymore about anything. 

In fact, stop listening to everyone you are getting information from. 

Rates have been so low for so long people aren't investing in U.S. savings bonds. Neither are corporations and companies. This monetary policy isn't sustainable.

And like I said even Keynes never intended government spending and debt to pile up and be permanent.

FYI...debt per day now at $1.3 billion PER DAY! Even Keynes would say that is insane.

Rates have been so low for so long people aren't investing in U.S. savings bonds.

KC_Hokie

hahahahahaha

I really hope it is the case that you never took an economics class. Otherwise you either failed it miserably or your teacher failed you miserably. 

Just think about this sentence for a few minutes.

Do you really think if people weren't investing in US treasury securities that the interest rates on them would be at historic lows? Do you know how interest rates are determined? Of course you don't. 

Here is a layman explanation; the interest rate on US treasury securities is determined by the demand for said securities. If demand for these securities is high, that means that government is able to borrow at a low rate and when demand is low that means that the government is forced to borrow at a higher rate of interest in order to attract lenders. As is the case now, people are lining up in droves to put their money in these securities, which is why interest rates are at historic lows. 

What you are saying simply does not make a lick of sense. 

Stop raping causality. 

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

Rates have been so low for so long people aren't investing in U.S. savings bonds.

-Sun_Tzu-

hahahahahaha

I really hope it is the case that you never took an economics class. Otherwise you either failed it miserably or your teacher failed you miserably. 

Just think about this sentence for a few minutes.

Do you really think if people weren't investing in US treasury securities that the interest rates on them would be at historic lows? Do you know how interest rates are determined? Of course you don't. 

Here is a layman explanation; the interest rate on US treasury securities is determined by the demand for said securities. If demand for these securities is high, that means that government is able to borrow at a low rate and when demand is low that means that the government is forced to borrow at a higher rate of interest in order to attract lenders. As is the case now, people are lining up in droves to put their money in these securities, which is why interest rates are at historic lows. 

What you are saying simply does not make a lick of sense. 

Stop raping causality. 

So the spending with such low rates means a decrease in credit ratings (which has already happened).

So we're into the downward part of the Keynesian effect and into a liquidity trap. And high government spending as a huge percentage of GDP won't help the economy at this point.

i wonder what keynes would think of your butchering his theoryAbbeten

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

Rates have been so low for so long people aren't investing in U.S. savings bonds.

KC_Hokie

hahahahahaha

I really hope it is the case that you never took an economics class. Otherwise you either failed it miserably or your teacher failed you miserably. 

Just think about this sentence for a few minutes.

Do you really think if people weren't investing in US treasury securities that the interest rates on them would be at historic lows? Do you know how interest rates are determined? Of course you don't. 

Here is a layman explanation; the interest rate on US treasury securities is determined by the demand for said securities. If demand for these securities is high, that means that government is able to borrow at a low rate and when demand is low that means that the government is forced to borrow at a higher rate of interest in order to attract lenders. As is the case now, people are lining up in droves to put their money in these securities, which is why interest rates are at historic lows. 

What you are saying simply does not make a lick of sense. 

Stop raping causality. 

So the spending with such low rates means a decrease in credit ratings (which has already happened).

So we're into the downward part of the Keynesian effect and into a liquidity trap. And high government spending as a huge percentage of GDP won't help the economy at this point.

1. It's not like we have a choice. Budgets are finite. We can't fund everything we want.

2. Outside of the big cities like New York and LA, the military is the main thing that holds the economy up. Many rural states don't HAVE an economy beyond food production. The only thing that keeps these states functioning is huge military expenditures.

3. You should also understand that military R&D is a huge part of our economy. It's our primary export and manufacturing base.

4. There is a credible case to be made that education, WIC, healthcare, etc, is not the federal govt's job, they are the job of state governments who are more in tune with what the local needs are. Why do we have bureacrats in DC handling education in Mesquite, Wyoming 2000 miles away or Los Angeles 3000 miles away? LOCAL LOCAL LOCAL.

5. We are a (geographically) huge country. It does not make sense to have all govt functions centralized. That's why we have states. The main responsibility of the federal govt is national defense. The rest should be handled locally, depending on needs and budget.

LazySloth718

/thread,  A VERY GOOD POINT, this is what is wrong with liberals, they think the federal government knows how to run our individual lives, they have no clue.  They are very disconnected with our lives, but they pretend to know.  The reason why we created them was because of Daniel Shay's rebellion, not to free blacks, do this, do everything.  

  The federal government tried to free blacks, sounds great right?  Except it cost millions of lives, disease, people getting lined up and shot.  Sounds more like self mutilation of a population to me, than freeing slaves!  It is true, if you got shot in the arm, they cut your whole arm, or bleed you to death in the case of Abraham Lincoln.  That time period is what I refer to as the brain drain age.  Just a small example of the government doing something that "sounds" awesome, but in reality is a big cluster fvck of illogical, irrational living.  Heck even the state does not know how to manage the personal lives of individuals, especially domestic situations.  I know I am being abstract, but you get the point.

The federal government tried to free blacks, sounds great right?  Except it cost millions of lives, disease, people getting lined up and shot.  Sounds more like self mutilation of a population to me, than freeing slaves!mahlasor

[QUOTE="LazySloth718"]

1. It's not like we have a choice. Budgets are finite. We can't fund everything we want.

2. Outside of the big cities like New York and LA, the military is the main thing that holds the economy up. Many rural states don't HAVE an economy beyond food production. The only thing that keeps these states functioning is huge military expenditures.

3. You should also understand that military R&D is a huge part of our economy. It's our primary export and manufacturing base.

4. There is a credible case to be made that education, WIC, healthcare, etc, is not the federal govt's job, they are the job of state governments who are more in tune with what the local needs are. Why do we have bureacrats in DC handling education in Mesquite, Wyoming 2000 miles away or Los Angeles 3000 miles away? LOCAL LOCAL LOCAL.

5. We are a (geographically) huge country. It does not make sense to have all govt functions centralized. That's why we have states. The main responsibility of the federal govt is national defense. The rest should be handled locally, depending on needs and budget.

mahlasor

/thread,  A VERY GOOD POINT, this is what is wrong with liberals, they think the federal government knows how to run our individual lives, they have no clue.  They are very disconnected with our lives, but they pretend to know.  The reason why we created them was because of Daniel Shay's rebellion, not to free blacks, do this, do everything.  

  The federal government tried to free blacks, sounds great right?  Except it cost millions of lives, disease, people getting lined up and shot.  Sounds more like self mutilation of a population to me, than freeing slaves!  It is true, if you got shot in the arm, they cut your whole arm, or bleed you to death in the case of Abraham Lincoln.  That time period is what I refer to as the brain drain age.  Just a small example of the government doing something that "sounds" awesome, but in reality is a big cluster fvck of illogical, irrational living.  Heck even the state does not know how to manage the personal lives of individuals, especially domestic situations.  I know I am being abstract, but you get the point.

[QUOTE="mahlasor"]The federal government tried to free blacks, sounds great right?  Except it cost millions of lives, disease, people getting lined up and shot.  Sounds more like self mutilation of a population to me, than freeing slaves!Ace6301

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Do you have any idea how disastrous that would be?jimkabrhel

When you give these responsibilities to the government, then in addition to giving up money for them to spend however they will, you also give them the power to control how your children are raised, how they are educated, and what foods everyone eats.

This is clearly not working, since the US government is using the public schools to indoctrinate children with collectivist beliefs (for example I was forced to perform community service as part of my curriculum in grade school), and the government is poisoning the entire country by dumping fluoride (a confirmed neurotoxin that is proven to degenerate the brain) into our water.

The government is poisoning us to reduce our intellect, to reduce our capability to think, reason, question, and dissent. Then the government uses the reduced mental capabilities of the masses to more easily brainwash them in the public education system.

I'll put it in terms of your posting style: Please give me proof that the US government is doing any of the things you mention. Hard evidence, not your opinion. 

The concentraions of fluoride used in drinking water to prevent tooth decay is nowhere near the levels needed to interact with calcium in the rest of the body. There are greater concerns in the water, like pharma drugs and BPA, but those are in the water from private citizens and from large corporations, not eh government.

Then, tell me a country where the government doesn't fund education, where the score score highly in math and science.

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] It would not be disastrous. If people value education, then they will pay for it - freely. If people value childcare, then they will pay for it - freely. If people value food safety, then they will pay for it - freely.

When you give these responsibilities to the government, then in addition to giving up money for them to spend however they will, you also give them the power to control how your children are raised, how they are educated, and what foods everyone eats.

This is clearly not working, since the US government is using the public schools to indoctrinate children with collectivist beliefs (for example I was forced to perform community service as part of my curriculum in grade school), and the government is poisoning the entire country by dumping fluoride (a confirmed neurotoxin that is proven to degenerate the brain) into our water.

The government is poisoning us to reduce our intellect, to reduce our capability to think, reason, question, and dissent. Then the government uses the reduced mental capabilities of the masses to more easily brainwash them in the public education system.

Laihendi

I'll put it in terms of your posting style: Please give me proof that the US government is doing any of the things you mention. Hard evidence, not your opinion. 

The concentraions of fluoride used in drinking water to prevent tooth decay is nowhere near the levels needed to interact with calcium in the rest of the body. There are greater concerns in the water, like pharma drugs and BPA, but those are in the water from private citizens and from large corporations, not eh government.

Then, tell me a country where the government doesn't fund education, where the score score highly in math and science.

how does putting fluoride in public water fountains control peopleAbbeten

i guess, if you want to compromise on your definition of 'control'Abbeten

Holy sh*t.

The government was controlling me by providing my family with low cost health insurance.

And controlling me directly by giving me free health care.

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]Jesus. Those are some areas of American life that actually NEED to be expanded and invested in. Can there be any more cuts to military spending? ghoklebutter

Go on...

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="chrisrooR"]Jesus. Those are some areas of American life that actually NEED to be expanded and invested in. Can there be any more cuts to military spending? SpartanMSU

Go on...

i guess, if you want to compromise on your definition of 'control'Abbeten

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]i guess, if you want to compromise on your definition of 'control'Laihendi

I didn't learn much at all.Laihendi

I didn't learn much at all.Laihendi

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Abbeten"]i guess, if you want to compromise on your definition of 'control'-Sun_Tzu-

I didn't learn much at all.Laihendi

University of Phoenix isn't very goodDroidPhysX

It's laughable that you can't take on what I say without cutting sentence fragments out of context.Laihendi

[QUOTE="SpartanMSU"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Military cuts are good, but I'm primarily focused on the economic corruption going on in this country (hint: Wall Street). -Sun_Tzu-

Go on...

Yes. I work on the buy side. I'm curious to what his interpretation is.

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] It would not be disastrous. If people value education, then they will pay for it - freely. If people value childcare, then they will pay for it - freely. If people value food safety, then they will pay for it - freely.

When you give these responsibilities to the government, then in addition to giving up money for them to spend however they will, you also give them the power to control how your children are raised, how they are educated, and what foods everyone eats.

This is clearly not working, since the US government is using the public schools to indoctrinate children with collectivist beliefs (for example I was forced to perform community service as part of my curriculum in grade school), and the government is poisoning the entire country by dumping fluoride (a confirmed neurotoxin that is proven to degenerate the brain) into our water.

The government is poisoning us to reduce our intellect, to reduce our capability to think, reason, question, and dissent. Then the government uses the reduced mental capabilities of the masses to more easily brainwash them in the public education system.

Laihendi

I'll put it in terms of your posting style: Please give me proof that the US government is doing any of the things you mention. Hard evidence, not your opinion. 

The concentraions of fluoride used in drinking water to prevent tooth decay is nowhere near the levels needed to interact with calcium in the rest of the body. There are greater concerns in the water, like pharma drugs and BPA, but those are in the water from private citizens and from large corporations, not eh government.

Then, tell me a country where the government doesn't fund education, where the score score highly in math and science.

Do enlighten me how it violates the 14th Amendment, Mr. OT Constitutional Law Expert.

Fluoride is toxic... in level far, far higher than is normally ingested by drinking normal amounts of water during the day and brushing twice a day. 

"Possible neurotoxin" So that isn't confirmed by current research. Dental fluorisis is a cosmetic problem, without evidence that is health related.

The rest of your post is paranoia, not science.

Women, Infants, and Children programs 

i blame tim hudak's old boys club /sarcasm

the government is poisoning the entire country by dumping fluoride (a confirmed neurotoxin that is proven to degenerate the brain) into our water.

Laihendi

Fluoridated water is easily one of the greatest health projects implemented in the 20th century.  What you're suggesting is unfounded scientifically illiterate conspiracy bullshlt.  Let me guess, all those contrails are controlling us too right?

You're fvcking nuts. 

Education cuts: because reducing human capital is the key to economic success!chessmaster1989

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

I'll put it in terms of your posting style: Please give me proof that the US government is doing any of the things you mention. Hard evidence, not your opinion. 

The concentraions of fluoride used in drinking water to prevent tooth decay is nowhere near the levels needed to interact with calcium in the rest of the body. There are greater concerns in the water, like pharma drugs and BPA, but those are in the water from private citizens and from large corporations, not eh government.

Then, tell me a country where the government doesn't fund education, where the score score highly in math and science.

jimkabrhel

Do enlighten me how it violates the 14th Amendment, Mr. OT Constitutional Law Expert.

Fluoride is toxic... in level far, far higher than is normally ingested by drinking normal amounts of water during the day and brushing twice a day. 

"Possible neurotoxin" So that isn't confirmed by current research. Dental fluorisis is a cosmetic problem, without evidence that is health related.

The rest of your post is paranoia, not science.

Forcibly medicating me is a pretty blatant denial of personal liberty.Laihendi

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Forcibly medicating me is a pretty blatant denial of personal liberty.Aljosa23