Everybody SHOULD Support Decriminalization of Cannabis... EVERYBODY

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]

This is news to me. Did the users also have a history of tobacco use?

xxDustmanxx

Inhaling smoke ona regular basis is typically bad for your lungs. . . . .regardless of what's mixed into it.

I don't know about cancer-killing, but even if it is good for your health, so are some prescription drugs. . .that doesn't automatically mean we want those prescription drugs to be recreationally used by a large amount of people. Just like alcohol: alcohol helps the heart, but that doesn't mean we should all of a sudden ignore alcoholism.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]As cannabis is known to have cancer killing properties.AirGuitarist87

you are correct. Weed cannot reverse cancer.

Too many problems with many of those studies.drj077

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]As cannabis is known to have cancer killing properties.AirGuitarist87

Cannabis is an immuno-modulator and a cancer preventative in the lungs it seems. Unfortunately, the impurities in the rest of the marijuana inhaled can overpower those effects. However, in breast cancer, the substance actually increases tumor growth and metastasis.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]As cannabis is known to have cancer killing properties.AirGuitarist87

[QUOTE="drj077"]Too many problems with many of those studies.The_Versatile

And you should know that I have no problem with people using cannabis as long as they don't smoke it. Let science develop the appropriate compounds and agonists/antagonists, so that we have something useful instead of something mediocre.

I'm not biased against marijuana use in my patients if it's done correctly, but I am biased against people with opinions such as yours.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Inhaling smoke ona regular basis is typically bad for your lungs. . . . .regardless of what's mixed into it.

I don't know about cancer-killing, but even if it is good for your health, so are some prescription drugs. . .that doesn't automatically mean we want those prescription drugs to be recreationally used by a large amount of people. Just like alcohol: alcohol helps the heart, but that doesn't mean we should all of a sudden ignore alcoholism.

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]As cannabis is known to have cancer killing properties.drj077

Cannabis is an immuno-modulator and a cancer preventative in the lungs it seems. Unfortunately, the impurities in the rest of the marijuana inhaled can overpower those effects. However, in breast cancer, the substance actually increases tumor growth and metastasis.

[QUOTE="drj077"]

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"] I've never heard that before. I know it is a pain-killer that many cancer patients use, but I've never heard it can kill cancer. In fact, it's got a higher likelihood of causing cancer than tobacco smoke.xxDustmanxx

Cannabis is an immuno-modulator and a cancer preventative in the lungs it seems. Unfortunately, the impurities in the rest of the marijuana inhaled can overpower those effects. However, in breast cancer, the substance actually increases tumor growth and metastasis.

J Immunol. 2005 Mar 15;174(6):3281-9.

Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol enhances breast cancer growth and metastasis by suppression of the antitumor immune response.

Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Medical College of Virginia Campus, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA 23298, USA. rjmckall@hsc.vcu.edu

In the current study, we tested the central hypothesis that exposure to Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta9-THC), the major psychoactive component in marijuana, can lead to enhanced growth of tumors that express low to undetectable levels of cannabinoid receptors by specifically suppressing the antitumor immune response. We demonstrated that the human breast cancer cell lines MCF-7 and MDA-MB-231 and the mouse mammary carcinoma 4T1 express low to undetectable levels of cannabinoid receptors, CB1 and CB2, and that these cells are resistant to Delta9-THC-induced cytotoxicity. Furthermore, exposure of mice to Delta9-THC led to significantly elevated 4T1 tumor growth and metastasis due to inhibition of the specific antitumor immune response in vivo. The suppression of the antitumor immune response was mediated primarily through CB2 as opposed to CB1. Furthermore, exposure to Delta9-THC led to increased production of IL-4 and IL-10, suggesting that Delta9-THC exposure may specifically suppress the cell-mediated Th1 response by enhancing Th2-associated cytokines. This possibility was further supported by microarray data demonstrating the up-regulation of a number of Th2-related genes and the down-regulation of a number of Th1-related genes following exposure to Delta9-THC. Finally, injection of anti-IL-4 and anti-IL-10 mAbs led to a partial reversal of the Delta9-THC-induced suppression of the immune response to 4T1. Such findings suggest that marijuana exposure either recreationally or medicinally may increase the susceptibility to and/or incidence of breast cancer as well as other cancers that do not express cannabinoid receptors and are resistant to Delta9-THC-induced apoptosis.

It also seems to depend on the receptor response and the dosage. High doses of THC like that which would be required in cancer treatment is incredibly psychotropic.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="drj077"]

Cannabis is an immuno-modulator and a cancer preventative in the lungs it seems. Unfortunately, the impurities in the rest of the marijuana inhaled can overpower those effects. However, in breast cancer, the substance actually increases tumor growth and metastasis.

J Immunol. 2005 Mar 15;174(6):3281-9.

Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol enhances breast cancer growth and metastasis by suppression of the antitumor immune response.

Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Medical College of Virginia Campus, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA 23298, USA. rjmckall@hsc.vcu.edu

In the current study, we tested the central hypothesis that exposure to Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta9-THC), the major psychoactive component in marijuana, can lead to enhanced growth of tumors that express low to undetectable levels of cannabinoid receptors by specifically suppressing the antitumor immune response. We demonstrated that the human breast cancer cell lines MCF-7 and MDA-MB-231 and the mouse mammary carcinoma 4T1 express low to undetectable levels of cannabinoid receptors, CB1 and CB2, and that these cells are resistant to Delta9-THC-induced cytotoxicity. Furthermore, exposure of mice to Delta9-THC led to significantly elevated 4T1 tumor growth and metastasis due to inhibition of the specific antitumor immune response in vivo. The suppression of the antitumor immune response was mediated primarily through CB2 as opposed to CB1. Furthermore, exposure to Delta9-THC led to increased production of IL-4 and IL-10, suggesting that Delta9-THC exposure may specifically suppress the cell-mediated Th1 response by enhancing Th2-associated cytokines. This possibility was further supported by microarray data demonstrating the up-regulation of a number of Th2-related genes and the down-regulation of a number of Th1-related genes following exposure to Delta9-THC. Finally, injection of anti-IL-4 and anti-IL-10 mAbs led to a partial reversal of the Delta9-THC-induced suppression of the immune response to 4T1. Such findings suggest that marijuana exposure either recreationally or medicinally may increase the susceptibility to and/or incidence of breast cancer as well as other cancers that do not express cannabinoid receptors and are resistant to Delta9-THC-induced apoptosis.

It also seems to depend on the receptor response and the dosage. High doses of THC like that which would be required in cancer treatment is incredibly psychotropic.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"] Point taken, but it is also important to take into account the difference in chemicals found in tobacco and cannabis. As cannabis is known to have cancer killing properties.xxDustmanxx

I don't know about cancer-killing, but even if it is good for your health, so are some prescription drugs. . .that doesn't automatically mean we want those prescription drugs to be recreationally used by a large amount of people. Just like alcohol: alcohol helps the heart, but that doesn't mean we should all of a sudden ignore alcoholism.

You're ignoring my point.

Also this bbc article suggests that cbd may help prevent the spread of malignent tumors as well as breast cancer. It seems that there is no clear cut answer here, i acknowledge that recreational cannabis use is not without its detriments. But i believe that we can all agree that it is far less detrimental than both tabacco and alcohol as well as most pharmecuticals.

Bbc article.

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="AtvarU"]

What makes you think the drug dealers will go away just cause its legal?

xxDustmanxx

because people could sell it legally in stores....

wouldn't the dealers just sell it to the stores

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

because people could sell it legally in stores....

AtvarU

wouldn't the dealers just sell it to the stores

Or sell different drugs.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

I don't know about cancer-killing, but even if it is good for your health, so are some prescription drugs. . .that doesn't automatically mean we want those prescription drugs to be recreationally used by a large amount of people. Just like alcohol: alcohol helps the heart, but that doesn't mean we should all of a sudden ignore alcoholism.

You're ignoring my point.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

because people could sell it legally in stores....

AtvarU

wouldn't the dealers just sell it to the stores

[QUOTE="AtvarU"]

The prices will also plummet, pretty much putting dealers out of business.xxDustmanxx

wouldn't the dealers just sell it to the stores

Or sell different drugs.

Also this bbc article suggests that cbd may help prevent the spread of malignent tumors as well as breast cancer. It seems that there is no clear cut answer here, i acknowledge that recreational cannabis use is not without its detriments. But i believe that we can all agree that it is far less detrimental than both tabacco and alcohol as well as most pharmecuticals.xxDustmanxx

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]Also this bbc article suggests that cbd may help prevent the spread of malignent tumors as well as breast cancer. It seems that there is no clear cut answer here, i acknowledge that recreational cannabis use is not without its detriments. But i believe that we can all agree that it is far less detrimental than both tabacco and alcohol as well as most pharmecuticals.The_Versatile

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"] A lot of the people who sell marijuana arent street hardened gang felons. Some are nonviolent civil disobedients looking to make a quick buck. They would probably just seek a license to sell marijuana.xxDustmanxx

It should stay criminalized, since you shouldn't have it in your possession. Hopefully pot never gets legalized in my lifetime. I don't feel like getting killed by a guy hopped up on pot in my future.Pittfan666

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"] I agree with you, i'm just not sure whether or not he is actually citing biased studies, but they definitely conflict with other well accepted studies. I am also positive that BBC is pretty unbiased.The_Versatile

[QUOTE="Pittfan666"]It should stay criminalized, since you shouldn't have it in your possession. Hopefully pot never gets legalized in my lifetime. I don't feel like getting killed by a guy hopped up on pot in my future.The_Versatile

To be fair, I have loled at just about everything you have posted in this thread. Reading activist propaganda =/= research.

Where are the phase III and IV clinical trials accepted by the FDA or EMEA? Your evidence is purely anecdotal at best.

Hope this is the last thing and everyone agrees with me. The law will not change until unbiased scientific studies are carried out, which by the sound of it wont be anytime soon

I'm glad we are on the same page Versatile. The back-up is much appreciated, i suppose us "potheads" have to stick together. On that note, I'm sure we can all agree to disagree, although its quite unsettling that one side has to get locked up for their views and non-harmful actions. xxDustmanxx

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"][QUOTE="Pittfan666"]It should stay criminalized, since you shouldn't have it in your possession. Hopefully pot never gets legalized in my lifetime. I don't feel like getting killed by a guy hopped up on pot in my future.DaBrainz

To be fair, I have loled at just about everything you have posted in this thread. Reading activist propaganda =/= research.

Where are the phase III and IV clinical trials accepted by the FDA or EMEA? Your evidence is purely anecdotal at best.

Hope this is the last thing and everyone agrees with me. The law will not change until unbiased scientific studies are carried out, which by the sound of it wont be anytime soon

AtvarU

This is true. The first step is convincing the DEA to move it off of the class 1 controlled substance list. Then maybe some sponsers will step in to perform the proper studies.

For the haters:

Real-life experience > biased, government-funded faux "studies"

You can't deny that, unless you're insane, and you might as well kill yourself now to spare yourself any more suffering.

One more point for the haters:

Let's just hope that YOU never become afflicted with any illness for which cannabis will be one of the few, or even only medications that will treat you. I guarantee if that ever happens, you'll be a proponent of cannabis in a millisecond. Did you ever think about that? Because it's happened before. So many patients who didn't know about cannabis, or were even against it... after using it, they reported that they had changed their minds on how they felt about. They realized they had been misled by government propoganda. They realized it's just an herb, not a monster. And most importantly, they realized it was EFFECTIVE as a medicine, without all the horrible side-effects that synthetics saddle you with.

I'm outta here now. Time to eat, time to medicate, and time to watch The Price Is Right. That's right, I'm going to medicate with cannabis. Call the cops! :o

[QUOTE="DaBrainz"]

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"] :lol: Thanks for the comedy, brother. I actually needed a laugh. Laughter is great medicine just like cannabis. :)The_Versatile

To be fair, I have loled at just about everything you have posted in this thread. Reading activist propaganda =/= research.

Where are the phase III and IV clinical trials accepted by the FDA or EMEA? Your evidence is purely anecdotal at best.

Um...how does that refute my point? The fact that you admit your speaking from experiance proves its only anecdotal. Do you understand how NDAs work?

For the haters:

Real-life experience > biased, government-funded faux "studies"

You can't deny that, unless you're insane, and you might as well kill yourself now to spare yourself any more suffering.

One more point for the haters:

Let's just hope that YOU never become afflicted with any illness for which cannabis will be one of the few, or even only medications that will treat you. I guarantee if that ever happens, you'll be a proponent of cannabis in a millisecond. Did you ever think about that? Because it's happened before. So many patients who didn't know about cannabis, or were even against it... after using it, they reported that they had changed their minds on how they felt about. They realized they had been misled by government propoganda. They realized it's just an herb, not a monster. And most importantly, they realized it was EFFECTIVE as a medicine, without all the horrible side-effects that synthetics saddle you with.

I'm outta here now. Time to eat, time to medicate, and time to watch The Price Is Right. That's right, I'm going to medicate with cannabis. Call the cops! :o

The_Versatile

And as far as "other anti-depressants" doing what cannabinoids do... sure, maybe. But many people still want a natural remedy, so we don't have to be doped up on synthetics all the time. You may be a doctor, but I'm a patient. And unless you've been there yourself, you can't testify to what I can. Have you been to the point where you were still in so much pain, but couldn't stand to put another pill in your body? I have. And that's why cannabis is superior medication. Because it does the same thing as pharmaceutical inventions, yet without tearing your liver apart. Now if you're going to point out lung damage again, then may I again remind you of vaporization. Sheesh, I find it hard to believe you're a doctor actually. I've never had a chat with a doctor like this before. My doctors are always supportive of my medical cannabis usage.The_Versatile

Antidepressants do it and they do it better. Also, what do you mean by "natural remedy"? The mechanism by which SSRIs work is just as natural only it works better.

And, again, you mention "medical cannabis usage". Are you really that daft to think that I'm not in support of such usage? You have totally missed the point and the boat on this one and apparently you enjoy thinking what you want to think regardless of the literature and how YOU interpret it.

By the way, you interpret it poorly.

Also, if you're in so much pain that you can't put another pill in your body, then you shouldn't be able to move to inhale a substance either. I've seen people with metastatic breast and esophageal cancer in 10/10 pain. We use fentanyl and duragesic patches. Controlled, useful, and scientifically proven.

For the haters:

Real-life experience > biased, government-funded faux "studies"

You can't deny that, unless you're insane, and you might as well kill yourself now to spare yourself any more suffering.

The_Versatile

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"]

For the haters:

Real-life experience > biased, government-funded faux "studies"

You can't deny that, unless you're insane, and you might as well kill yourself now to spare yourself any more suffering.

AirGuitarist87

Exactly. Studies funded through the NIH are typically peer-reviewed and totally unbiased as they have to be for circulation. Studies and websites established by people with a history or marijuana use or abuse is the very definition of biased, however, and that information is nothing more than propaganda and desperation.

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"]And as far as "other anti-depressants" doing what cannabinoids do... sure, maybe. But many people still want a natural remedy, so we don't have to be doped up on synthetics all the time. You may be a doctor, but I'm a patient. And unless you've been there yourself, you can't testify to what I can. Have you been to the point where you were still in so much pain, but couldn't stand to put another pill in your body? I have. And that's why cannabis is superior medication. Because it does the same thing as pharmaceutical inventions, yet without tearing your liver apart. Now if you're going to point out lung damage again, then may I again remind you of vaporization. Sheesh, I find it hard to believe you're a doctor actually. I've never had a chat with a doctor like this before. My doctors are always supportive of my medical cannabis usage.drj077

We use fentanyl and duragesic patches. Controlled, useful, and scientifically proven.

Doesn't fentanyl have some terrible and fairly common side effects, and haven't there been a bunch of lawsuits over fatalities related to it?

[QUOTE="drj077"]

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"]And as far as "other anti-depressants" doing what cannabinoids do... sure, maybe. But many people still want a natural remedy, so we don't have to be doped up on synthetics all the time. You may be a doctor, but I'm a patient. And unless you've been there yourself, you can't testify to what I can. Have you been to the point where you were still in so much pain, but couldn't stand to put another pill in your body? I have. And that's why cannabis is superior medication. Because it does the same thing as pharmaceutical inventions, yet without tearing your liver apart. Now if you're going to point out lung damage again, then may I again remind you of vaporization. Sheesh, I find it hard to believe you're a doctor actually. I've never had a chat with a doctor like this before. My doctors are always supportive of my medical cannabis usage.GTALoco

We use fentanyl and duragesic patches. Controlled, useful, and scientifically proven.

Doesn't fentanyl have some terrible and fairly common side effects, and haven't there been a bunch of lawsuits over fatalities related to it?

The same as any other narcotic. Lethargy, respiratory depression, pruritis, etc. The lawsuits are related to improper dosing of the drug on the part of either physicians or patients that don't know they have to remove one patch before applying another and other problems. The drug is actually very safe when used appropriately and it's incredibly useful in end-of-life situations.

For the haters:

Real-life experience > biased, government-funded faux "studies"

You can't deny that, unless you're insane, and you might as well kill yourself now to spare yourself any more suffering.

For the haters:

Real-life experience > biased, government-funded faux "studies"

You can't deny that, unless you're insane, and you might as well kill yourself now to spare yourself any more suffering.

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="The_Versatile"]

For the haters:

Real-life experience > biased, government-funded faux "studies"

You can't deny that, unless you're insane, and you might as well kill yourself now to spare yourself any more suffering.

sSubZerOo

Wow you have a lot of misconceptions.

The Pharmaceutical companies are about making money, if cannabis was viable, they would of extracted it, put it in a vial or a pen injector or a patch by now.

Why do you think thatin a system where phase III and IV clinical trials cost hundreds of millions of dollars to evaluate the safety and effectiveness of a drug that we should some how make an exceptionfor cannabis?

The facts are the evidence that does exist is not sufficient enough to warrant such an investment.

And don't even get me started on the global warming thing, when the media says scientific consensus, scientific is used very loosely.