Flaw in Christian beliefs

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

*sigh*, here we go again *straps self in*

maybe ignorance is a free ticket. When I get to the pearly gates I'm just going to say, "No one told me!" :P

:lol:

here we go again

Well here we go........another Religious mumbo-jumbo.

religion is bszzz20

I just can't stand the people who try to convert you.

I can't tolerate having someone shove their "beliefs" down my throat.

God simply can't get a message out to everyone at once. He's not superman, you know.SolidSnake35

Batman perhaps?

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]God simply can't get a message out to everyone at once. He's not superman, you know.ShadowofTulkas

Batman perhaps?

maybe 8)

God simply can't get a message out to everyone at once. He's not superman, you know.SolidSnake35

I don't know, from what the bible attributes to God, he is some kind of superman. Come on, he can see everyone anywhere?

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]God simply can't get a message out to everyone at once. He's not superman, you know.felixlynch777

I don't know, from what the bible attributes to God, he is some kind of superman. Come on, he can see everyone anywhere?

I brought popcorn.

*Eats popcorn*

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]God simply can't get a message out to everyone at once. He's not superman, you know.SolidSnake35

I don't know, from what the bible attributes to God, he is some kind of superman. Come on, he can see everyone anywhere?

Yeah I guess we all would:lol:

Yeah, jeez god, give the early north americans a break ay?

Another flaw is that the earth is clearly not 6,000 years old lol. (carbon dating etc.)

That's not a flaw and it's been addressed several times. :roll:

Does anyone have new topic ideas?

That's not a flaw and it's been addressed several times. :roll:

Does anyone have new topic ideas?

LJS9502_basic

ooooo oooo does bible mention pizza? no? OMG THATS ONE HELLUVA FLAW

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

That's not a flaw and it's been addressed several times. :roll:

Does anyone have new topic ideas?

mingo123

ooooo oooo does bible mention pizza? no? OMG THATS ONE HELLUVA FLAW

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

four_of_clubs

(18 ) The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, (19) since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. (20) For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

four_of_clubs

[QUOTE="four_of_clubs"]

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

mindstorm

(18 ) The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, (19) since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. (20) For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

are you saying that africans go to hell?

Yeah, jeez god, give the early north americans a break ay?

Another flaw is that the earth is clearly not 6,000 years old lol. (carbon dating etc.)

Robinho1873

Carbon dating isn't used to date the Earth.....:roll:

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

four_of_clubs

I can't believe the countless times this argument has been brought up, it's been answered over and over and over again.

Perhaps God comes in different shapes depending on the culture he wants to inform?

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="four_of_clubs"]

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

NaiKoN9293

(18 ) The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, (19) since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. (20) For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

are you saying that africans go to hell?

God judges based off of what you know and what position you are in (example, as I'm studying to become a minister I'll be held more accountable for my actions than any of the rest of us). Someone who hears the name of Christ is going to be judged much more severely for rejecting his name than someone who has never even heard the name.

With all of that said, no man can come to the Father except through the Son (e.g. no person can go to heaven without knowing Christ). God alone can judge who goes to heaven or hell and God alone knowns what is in a person's heart (in other words, even many who call themselves Christians will not go to heaven due to their lack of seeking Christ in their lives).

[QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="four_of_clubs"]

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

mindstorm

(18 ) The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, (19) since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. (20) For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

are you saying that africans go to hell?

God judges based off of what you know and what position you are in (example, as I'm studying to become a minister I'll be held more accountable for my actions than any of the rest of us). Someone who hears the name of Christ is going to be judged much more severely for rejecting his name than someone who has never even heard the name.

With all of that said, no man can come to the Father except through the Son (e.g. no person can go to heaven without knowing Christ). God alone can judge who goes to heaven or hell and God alone knowns what is in a person's heart (in other words, even many who call themselves Christians will not go to heaven due to their lack of seeking Christ in their lives).

You are a sick rascist, WTF is wrong with you?

[QUOTE="Robinho1873"]

Yeah, jeez god, give the early north americans a break ay?

Another flaw is that the earth is clearly not 6,000 years old lol. (carbon dating etc.)

Lansdowne5

Carbon dating isn't used to date the Earth.....:roll:

Oops wrong words sorry. I meant fossils etc. You, sir, are right to roll your eyes.

[QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="four_of_clubs"]

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

mindstorm

(18 ) The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, (19) since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. (20) For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

are you saying that africans go to hell?

God judges based off of what you know and what position you are in (example, as I'm studying to become a minister I'll be held more accountable for my actions than any of the rest of us). Someone who hears the name of Christ is going to be judged much more severely for rejecting his name than someone who has never even heard the name.

With all of that said, no man can come to the Father except through the Son (e.g. no person can go to heaven without knowing Christ). God alone can judge who goes to heaven or hell and God alone knowns what is in a person's heart (in other words, even many who call themselves Christians will not go to heaven due to their lack of seeking Christ in their lives).

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="four_of_clubs"]

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

Robinho1873

(18 ) The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, (19) since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. (20) For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

are you saying that africans go to hell?

God judges based off of what you know and what position you are in (example, as I'm studying to become a minister I'll be held more accountable for my actions than any of the rest of us). Someone who hears the name of Christ is going to be judged much more severely for rejecting his name than someone who has never even heard the name.

With all of that said, no man can come to the Father except through the Son (e.g. no person can go to heaven without knowing Christ). God alone can judge who goes to heaven or hell and God alone knowns what is in a person's heart (in other words, even many who call themselves Christians will not go to heaven due to their lack of seeking Christ in their lives).

That's why it's so important that Christians do their duty in spreading their faith.

One can still be convicted by the Holy Spirit that they are a sinner and in need of a savior even if they have never heard the name of Christ. They can still seek to serve him in the best way they know how in serving the Creator and not the Creation and in living a holy life. If a person who has never heard the name of Christ does that then I think they might just have a chance at salvation.

An example would be Abraham of the Old Testament. He only knew of the pagan gods of his father but the Holy Spirit was still able to convict him to do what God would have him to do with his life.

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"]

Yeah, jeez god, give the early north americans a break ay?

Another flaw is that the earth is clearly not 6,000 years old lol. (carbon dating etc.)

Robinho1873

Carbon dating isn't used to date the Earth.....:roll:

Oops wrong words sorry. I meant fossils etc. You, sir, are right to roll your eyes.

Where does it say the earth is 6000 years old in the Bible?

[QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="four_of_clubs"]

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

mindstorm

(18 ) The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, (19) since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. (20) For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

are you saying that africans go to hell?

God judges based off of what you know and what position you are in (example, as I'm studying to become a minister I'll be held more accountable for my actions than any of the rest of us). Someone who hears the name of Christ is going to be judged much more severely for rejecting his name than someone who has never even heard the name.

With all of that said, no man can come to the Father except through the Son (e.g. no person can go to heaven without knowing Christ). God alone can judge who goes to heaven or hell and God alone knowns what is in a person's heart (in other words, even many who call themselves Christians will not go to heaven due to their lack of seeking Christ in their lives).

That's why it's so important that Christians do their duty in spreading their faith.

One can still be convicted by the Holy Spirit that they are a sinner and in need of a savior even if they have never heard the name of Christ. They can still seek to serve him in the best way they know how in serving the Creator and not the Creation and in living a holy life. If a person who has never heard the name of Christ does that then I think they might just have a chance at salvation.

An example would be Abraham of the Old Testament. He only knew of the pagan gods of his father but the Holy Spirit was still able to convict him to do what God would have him to do with his life.

Yeah but that never happens anymore. You never here of anyone being led to God even though he didn't know his name. I just think that religion is like the worlds biggest cult. Your lead to believe lies and then you die and nothing happens. It just so happens that in this case the poison punch is the bible. While I'm here can I just ask, is it possible to be a creationist and still believe in evolution?

[QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"]

Yeah, jeez god, give the early north americans a break ay?

Another flaw is that the earth is clearly not 6,000 years old lol. (carbon dating etc.)

stepnkev

Carbon dating isn't used to date the Earth.....:roll:

Oops wrong words sorry. I meant fossils etc. You, sir, are right to roll your eyes.

Where does it say the earth is 6000 years old in the Bible?

I don't know. I've never read it. But you always here evolutionist biologists saying that is one of the major flaws in the bible. And fossils were what lead Darwin on the path to write ''The Origin of Species''. Theres a fascinating documentry on Channel 4 hosted by Richard Dwakins called ''The Genious of Charles Darwin'' which explains evolution well and why the earth is 4 billion years old.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="four_of_clubs"]

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

Robinho1873

(18 ) The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, (19) since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. (20) For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

are you saying that africans go to hell?

God judges based off of what you know and what position you are in (example, as I'm studying to become a minister I'll be held more accountable for my actions than any of the rest of us). Someone who hears the name of Christ is going to be judged much more severely for rejecting his name than someone who has never even heard the name.

With all of that said, no man can come to the Father except through the Son (e.g. no person can go to heaven without knowing Christ). God alone can judge who goes to heaven or hell and God alone knowns what is in a person's heart (in other words, even many who call themselves Christians will not go to heaven due to their lack of seeking Christ in their lives).

That's why it's so important that Christians do their duty in spreading their faith.

One can still be convicted by the Holy Spirit that they are a sinner and in need of a savior even if they have never heard the name of Christ. They can still seek to serve him in the best way they know how in serving the Creator and not the Creation and in living a holy life. If a person who has never heard the name of Christ does that then I think they might just have a chance at salvation.

An example would be Abraham of the Old Testament. He only knew of the pagan gods of his father but the Holy Spirit was still able to convict him to do what God would have him to do with his life.

Yeah but that never happens anymore. You never here of anyone being led to God even though he didn't know his name. I just think that religion is like the worlds biggest cult. Your lead to believe lies and then you die and nothing happens. It just so happens that in this case the poison punch is the bible. While I'm here can I just ask, is it possible to be a creationist and still believe in evolution?

About being a Creationist and Evolutionist... One can indeed be a Theistic Evolutionist in believing God used evolution to create the world as it is now. I used to be one myself even. Sure I debate Young-Earth Creationism all the time here but what is important for a Christian to believe most of all is that God did indeed create the world and miracles like that of the resurrection of Jesus Christ actually occured.

[QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="four_of_clubs"]

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

mindstorm

(18 ) The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, (19) since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. (20) For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

are you saying that africans go to hell?

God judges based off of what you know and what position you are in (example, as I'm studying to become a minister I'll be held more accountable for my actions than any of the rest of us). Someone who hears the name of Christ is going to be judged much more severely for rejecting his name than someone who has never even heard the name.

With all of that said, no man can come to the Father except through the Son (e.g. no person can go to heaven without knowing Christ). God alone can judge who goes to heaven or hell and God alone knowns what is in a person's heart (in other words, even many who call themselves Christians will not go to heaven due to their lack of seeking Christ in their lives).

That's why it's so important that Christians do their duty in spreading their faith.

One can still be convicted by the Holy Spirit that they are a sinner and in need of a savior even if they have never heard the name of Christ. They can still seek to serve him in the best way they know how in serving the Creator and not the Creation and in living a holy life. If a person who has never heard the name of Christ does that then I think they might just have a chance at salvation.

An example would be Abraham of the Old Testament. He only knew of the pagan gods of his father but the Holy Spirit was still able to convict him to do what God would have him to do with his life.

Yeah but that never happens anymore. You never here of anyone being led to God even though he didn't know his name. I just think that religion is like the worlds biggest cult. Your lead to believe lies and then you die and nothing happens. It just so happens that in this case the poison punch is the bible. While I'm here can I just ask, is it possible to be a creationist and still believe in evolution?

About being a Creationist and Evolutionist... One can indeed be a Theistic Evolutionist in believing God used evolution to create the world as it is now. I used to be one myself even. Sure I debate Young-Earth Creationism all the time here but what is important for a Christian to believe most of all is that God did indeed create the world and miracles like that of the resurrection of Jesus Christ actually occured.

How the hell can we prove that the resurrection is true? If it is the zombie apocalypse has already begun!

Hitler was a Christian, was he led by God to do what he did?

[QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="four_of_clubs"]

Here is a doozie of a puzzler:

You say that you must follow the path of Christ/God in order to achieve eternal salvation in heaven. Okay, point taken.
But I then bring up the point "Hey, what about poor kids in Africa that aren't able to reach out to a church and learn about god?"
They say "That is mankind's fault for turning Africa poor etc etc etc." Okay, point taken.

But here is the question to you:

Think about First Nation's in North America, whom originally came from Asia thousands of years ago over the magic of the "seasonal ice bridge." Why were they not aware of god? Why is it that only wealthy states were originally aware of the presence of god? Are you telling me that anyone whom lived in these times living in North America simply went to hell because they were not informed?
Well, sorry, they were aware of god. But a different god. Their god. Actually, there were many gods. Why did these many gods exist? You can't simply say that they are false idols... to the First Nation tribes, they actually serve a lot of purpose!
I figure that if god's plan is to have you follow ten rules in order to get into heaven, then every single tribe/state/nation should have been informed from the get-go.

Of course I imagine the rebuttle will be along the lines of a "loss of information", or "but they sent missionaries to help them! (along with small-pox and domination of the land -cough-) but hey I'd like to hear what you have to say, as I could be mistaken and totally wrong.

Not to mention it's late, and my thoughts probably are not one hundred percent coherent.

mindstorm

(18 ) The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, (19) since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. (20) For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

are you saying that africans go to hell?

God judges based off of what you know and what position you are in (example, as I'm studying to become a minister I'll be held more accountable for my actions than any of the rest of us). Someone who hears the name of Christ is going to be judged much more severely for rejecting his name than someone who has never even heard the name.

With all of that said, no man can come to the Father except through the Son (e.g. no person can go to heaven without knowing Christ). God alone can judge who goes to heaven or hell and God alone knowns what is in a person's heart (in other words, even many who call themselves Christians will not go to heaven due to their lack of seeking Christ in their lives).

That's why it's so important that Christians do their duty in spreading their faith.

One can still be convicted by the Holy Spirit that they are a sinner and in need of a savior even if they have never heard the name of Christ. They can still seek to serve him in the best way they know how in serving the Creator and not the Creation and in living a holy life. If a person who has never heard the name of Christ does that then I think they might just have a chance at salvation.

An example would be Abraham of the Old Testament. He only knew of the pagan gods of his father but the Holy Spirit was still able to convict him to do what God would have him to do with his life.

Yeah but that never happens anymore. You never here of anyone being led to God even though he didn't know his name. I just think that religion is like the worlds biggest cult. Your lead to believe lies and then you die and nothing happens. It just so happens that in this case the poison punch is the bible. While I'm here can I just ask, is it possible to be a creationist and still believe in evolution?

About being a Creationist and Evolutionist... One can indeed be a Theistic Evolutionist in believing God used evolution to create the world as it is now. I used to be one myself even. Sure I debate Young-Earth Creationism all the time here but what is important for a Christian to believe most of all is that God did indeed create the world and miracles like that of the resurrection of Jesus Christ actually occured.

There's just to much evidence to deny evolution. Even breeders of dogs and Pidgeons are showing examples of evolution. Taking characteristics which they like and breeding with another. In other words ''Artificial selection'' rather than ''natural selection'' If people choose to beleive in God thats fine but if they deny evolution then they just can't see the wood for the trees.

[QUOTE="stepnkev"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"]

Yeah, jeez god, give the early north americans a break ay?

Another flaw is that the earth is clearly not 6,000 years old lol. (carbon dating etc.)

Robinho1873

Carbon dating isn't used to date the Earth.....:roll:

Oops wrong words sorry. I meant fossils etc. You, sir, are right to roll your eyes.

Where does it say the earth is 6000 years old in the Bible?

I don't know. I've never read it. But you always here evolutionist biologists saying that is one of the major flaws in the bible. And fossils were what lead Darwin on the path to write ''The Origin of Species''. Theres a fascinating documentry on Channel 4 hosted by Richard Dwakins called ''The Genious of Charles Darwin'' which explains evolution well and why the earth is 4 billion years old.

Which leads me to believe these "evolutionist biologists" have never read the Bible since it never states how old the earth is.

[QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="stepnkev"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"]

Yeah, jeez god, give the early north americans a break ay?

Another flaw is that the earth is clearly not 6,000 years old lol. (carbon dating etc.)

stepnkev

Carbon dating isn't used to date the Earth.....:roll:

Oops wrong words sorry. I meant fossils etc. You, sir, are right to roll your eyes.

Where does it say the earth is 6000 years old in the Bible?

I don't know. I've never read it. But you always here evolutionist biologists saying that is one of the major flaws in the bible. And fossils were what lead Darwin on the path to write ''The Origin of Species''. Theres a fascinating documentry on Channel 4 hosted by Richard Dwakins called ''The Genious of Charles Darwin'' which explains evolution well and why the earth is 4 billion years old.

Which leads me to believe these "evolutionist biologists" have never read the Bible since it never states how old the earth is.

Yeah, jeez god, give the early north americans a break ay?

Another flaw is that the earth is clearly not 6,000 years old lol. (carbon dating etc.)

Robinho1873

[QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="stepnkev"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"]

Yeah, jeez god, give the early north americans a break ay?

Another flaw is that the earth is clearly not 6,000 years old lol. (carbon dating etc.)

stepnkev

Carbon dating isn't used to date the Earth.....:roll:

Oops wrong words sorry. I meant fossils etc. You, sir, are right to roll your eyes.

Where does it say the earth is 6000 years old in the Bible?

I don't know. I've never read it. But you always here evolutionist biologists saying that is one of the major flaws in the bible. And fossils were what lead Darwin on the path to write ''The Origin of Species''. Theres a fascinating documentry on Channel 4 hosted by Richard Dwakins called ''The Genious of Charles Darwin'' which explains evolution well and why the earth is 4 billion years old.

Which leads me to believe these "evolutionist biologists" have never read the Bible since it never states how old the earth is.

Well actually..... if we assume what is said in the Bible to be correct. Then the Earth was made during the 7 days of Creation. So that is roughly seven days to start off with. After this point, it says that Adam was the first man. It also gives us an average of how long each man lived for in the Bible, and actually records every direct descendant of Adam until Jesus. Because we can't be 100% accurate about how long each man lived for however, when calculated we get an age of between 4000 years to 6000 years for the age of the Earth. You are completely right that it never catagorically says the age of the Earth in the Bible, but then, there wouldn't have been a proper record of time back then anyway.

[QUOTE="Robinho1873"]

Yeah, jeez god, give the early north americans a break ay?

Another flaw is that the earth is clearly not 6,000 years old lol. (carbon dating etc.)

Silenthps

Yeah because the words of men are more reliable than empirical evidence. There is so much evidence for evolution that we may as well just call it fact.

Those who deny evolution simply do not understand it or understand the vast amounts of evidence for it.

[QUOTE="stepnkev"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="stepnkev"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"]

Yeah, jeez god, give the early north americans a break ay?

Another flaw is that the earth is clearly not 6,000 years old lol. (carbon dating etc.)

Lansdowne5

Carbon dating isn't used to date the Earth.....:roll:

Oops wrong words sorry. I meant fossils etc. You, sir, are right to roll your eyes.

Where does it say the earth is 6000 years old in the Bible?

I don't know. I've never read it. But you always here evolutionist biologists saying that is one of the major flaws in the bible. And fossils were what lead Darwin on the path to write ''The Origin of Species''. Theres a fascinating documentry on Channel 4 hosted by Richard Dwakins called ''The Genious of Charles Darwin'' which explains evolution well and why the earth is 4 billion years old.

Which leads me to believe these "evolutionist biologists" have never read the Bible since it never states how old the earth is.

Well actually..... if we assume what is said in the Bible to be correct. Then the Earth was made in 7 days. So that is seven days to start off with. After this point, it says that Adam was the first man. It also gives us an average of how long each man lived for in the Bible, and actually records every direct descendant of Adam until Jesus. Because we can't be 100% accurate about how long each man lived for however, when calculated we get an age of between 4000 years to 6000 years for the age of the Earth. You are completely right that it never catagorically says the age of the Earth in the Bible, but then, there wouldn't have been a proper record of time back then anyway.

Ah at last! A more knowledgeable man than myself saves me from my flounderings in scriptoral evidence. What I do know however is that evolution is FACT.

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="stepnkev"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="stepnkev"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Robinho1873"]

Yeah, jeez god, give the early north americans a break ay?

Another flaw is that the earth is clearly not 6,000 years old lol. (carbon dating etc.)

Robinho1873

Carbon dating isn't used to date the Earth.....:roll:

Oops wrong words sorry. I meant fossils etc. You, sir, are right to roll your eyes.

Where does it say the earth is 6000 years old in the Bible?

I don't know. I've never read it. But you always here evolutionist biologists saying that is one of the major flaws in the bible. And fossils were what lead Darwin on the path to write ''The Origin of Species''. Theres a fascinating documentry on Channel 4 hosted by Richard Dwakins called ''The Genious of Charles Darwin'' which explains evolution well and why the earth is 4 billion years old.

Which leads me to believe these "evolutionist biologists" have never read the Bible since it never states how old the earth is.

Well actually..... if we assume what is said in the Bible to be correct. Then the Earth was made in 7 days. So that is seven days to start off with. After this point, it says that Adam was the first man. It also gives us an average of how long each man lived for in the Bible, and actually records every direct descendant of Adam until Jesus. Because we can't be 100% accurate about how long each man lived for however, when calculated we get an age of between 4000 years to 6000 years for the age of the Earth. You are completely right that it never catagorically says the age of the Earth in the Bible, but then, there wouldn't have been a proper record of time back then anyway.

Ah at last! A more knowledgeable man than myself saves me from my flounderings in scriptoral evidence. What I do know however is that evolution is FACT.

Ummmm, I thought a fact was something that could be proven behond doubt?