Flaw in Christian beliefs

[QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"]So when the terrorists killed themselves in 9/11, they all went to hell?Theokhoth

Even by the rules of Islam, they went to Hell. . . .

In their minds they were going to Heaven ...

That conviction is the same as all the others .. no?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

As opposed to dreading the ever-present inevitability of death? What a terrible effect.

Hewkii

why would one dread death?

Who knows? But if they do, and find comfort in religion, why criticise them for it? Some people need therapy, some don't.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"]So when the terrorists killed themselves in 9/11, they all went to hell?soren008

Even by the rules of Islam, they went to Hell. . . .

In their minds they were going to Heaven ...

That conviction is the same as all the others .. no?

No. Their conviction was blind and based on a false idea of what awaited them.

[QUOTE="soren008"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"]So when the terrorists killed themselves in 9/11, they all went to hell?Theokhoth

Even by the rules of Islam, they went to Hell. . . .

In their minds they were going to Heaven ...

That conviction is the same as all the others .. no?

No. Their conviction was blind and based on a false idea of what awaited them.

So your a Christian then... so arn't all the other religions according to you blind & based on a false idea ?

So your a Christian then... so arn't all the other religions according to you blind & based on a false idea ?

soren008

No. I'm not an atheist. I think all religions have some tinge of truth to them, but where they differ with Christianity they are wrong. Like a math problem. You can get close to the answer, but no matter how you put it, 2+2 will always equal 4.

[QUOTE="Hewkii"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

As opposed to dreading the ever-present inevitability of death? What a terrible effect.

Theokhoth

why would one dread death?

Who knows? But if they do, and find comfort in religion, why criticise them for it? Some people need therapy, some don't.

But therapy isn't supposed to last forever... :roll:

But therapy isn't supposed to last forever... :roll:

Deity_Slapper

Completely irrelevant to my point.

But therapy isn't supposed to last forever... :roll:

Deity_Slapper

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

But therapy isn't supposed to last forever... :roll:

Theokhoth

Completely irrelevant to my point.

Actually, it was all about your point. If religion is the fearful persons' therapy, and therapy is supposed to serve as a catalyst towards healthier and self-sufficient living, then people should leave their religions as soon as they no longer fear death...unless of course, the therapy isn't working! :o

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

But therapy isn't supposed to last forever... :roll:

Deity_Slapper

Completely irrelevant to my point.

Actually, it was all about your point. If religion is the fearful persons' therapy, and therapy is supposed to serve as a catalyst towards healthier and self-sufficient living, then people should leave their religions as soon as they no longer fear death...unless of course, the therapy isn't working! :o

Of course, this therapy centers around the fear of death, and since death is an inevitability (unless you'd like to debate that, too), it only makes sense that some people would follow religion, if it were solely for this reason, for their whole lives.

I think its funny how some people talk about heaven and hell with so much self assure of what is going on. I also think that religius people are pretty arrogant since they talk about stuff they dont know as they know it all.

Same can be said for the non relilgious. Last I checked they had no proof their ideas were right either. And is arrogant to say they do.

Take a bit of consideration on how social system works, power, institutions etc and you will understand the tru purpose of a church

By that logic then since we have a social system in place...religion wouldn't be necessary. Hmm...conflict with your statement.

I think if there is a god, he hates christians and others religious people. "Stop puting words in my mouth you crazy freaks"

We have His teachings...

He may think something along these lines. I hate the church, I dont dismiss Christ teachings though, he had a very powerfull mind and was clearly ahead of its time, but he is not son of god. Just a preacher of love and peace, like a hippie

And your evidence of this statement is...?

And I dont care I what I say or who I beleive will take me into heaven. If that is required to enter there, I would be better off in Hell then. All the great people are there anyways......

And you know this as well because...?

Adrianstalker

Just a few comments...

[QUOTE="soren008"]

So your a Christian then... so arn't all the other religions according to you blind & based on a false idea ?

Theokhoth

No. I'm not an atheist. I think all religions have some tinge of truth to them, but where they differ with Christianity they are wrong. Like a math problem. You can get close to the answer, but no matter how you put it, 2+2 will always equal 4.

er .. what ? a simple "yes" would do ...

Religions are hugely different ... and differ from christianity on many matters ..

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="soren008"]

So your a Christian then... so arn't all the other religions according to you blind & based on a false idea ?

soren008

No. I'm not an atheist. I think all religions have some tinge of truth to them, but where they differ with Christianity they are wrong. Like a math problem. You can get close to the answer, but no matter how you put it, 2+2 will always equal 4.

er .. what ? a simple "yes" would do ...

Religions are hugely different ... and differ from christianity on many matters ..

Hence why I believe they are equating 2+2 to equal 5. Close, but you still miss.

But I also believe all religions have some bit of truth in them. Except Scientology. Because that's a cult. Followed by Tom Cruise. Who's a moron.

[QUOTE="soren008"]

So your a Christian then... so arn't all the other religions according to you blind & based on a false idea ?

Theokhoth

No. I'm not an atheist. I think all religions have some tinge of truth to them, but where they differ with Christianity they are wrong. Like a math problem. You can get close to the answer, but no matter how you put it, 2+2 will always equal 4.

Really? How convenient

Basically your fairyland is the only 100% true one. Thank god you are wrong

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="soren008"]

So your a Christian then... so arn't all the other religions according to you blind & based on a false idea ?

Adrianstalker

No. I'm not an atheist. I think all religions have some tinge of truth to them, but where they differ with Christianity they are wrong. Like a math problem. You can get close to the answer, but no matter how you put it, 2+2 will always equal 4.

Really? How convenient

Basically your fairyland is the only 100% true one. Thank god you are wrong

Aww. Did you catch the irony yet?

[QUOTE="soren008"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="soren008"]

So your a Christian then... so arn't all the other religions according to you blind & based on a false idea ?

Theokhoth

No. I'm not an atheist. I think all religions have some tinge of truth to them, but where they differ with Christianity they are wrong. Like a math problem. You can get close to the answer, but no matter how you put it, 2+2 will always equal 4.

er .. what ? a simple "yes" would do ...

Religions are hugely different ... and differ from christianity on many matters ..

Hence why I believe they are equating 2+2 to equal 5. Close, but you still miss.

But I also believe all religions have some bit of truth in them. Except Scientology. Because that's a cult. Followed by Tom Cruise. Who's a moron.

I wasn't asking whether you were an athiest ? :|

Stop with the pretentious 2+2 BS ...

If you believe in Christianity, by your logic other believers of a different religion will go to hell ?

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

But therapy isn't supposed to last forever... :roll:

Theokhoth

Completely irrelevant to my point.

Actually, it was all about your point. If religion is the fearful persons' therapy, and therapy is supposed to serve as a catalyst towards healthier and self-sufficient living, then people should leave their religions as soon as they no longer fear death...unless of course, the therapy isn't working! :o

Of course, this therapy centers around the fear of death, and since death is an inevitability (unless you'd like to debate that, too), it only makes sense that some people would follow religion, if it were solely for this reason, for their whole lives.

But I JUST SAID...when they overcome their fear of death...it can happen you know. I've been through it myself. I used to fear death. Now I don't. Why would they follow their whole lives? The therapy doesn't work, that's why. Probably by design, in fact. If they healed everyone, there'd be no business left. :roll:

You're assuming that people never overcome their fears...

I wasn't asking whether you were an athiest ? :|

Stop with the pretentious 2+2 BS ...

If you believe in Christianity, by your logic other believers of a different religion will go to hell ?

soren008

Probably. I don't know for certain. The 2+2 thing is to demonstrate my point via analogy.

By "other believers of a different religion," do you mean people who follow x religion and never hear about Christianity, or other?

But I JUST SAID...when they overcome their fear of death...it can happen you know. I've been through it myself. I used to fear death. Now I don't. Why would they follow their whole lives?

You're assuming that people never overcome their fears...

Deity_Slapper

If their fear of death stems from their belief that nothing happens after death (naturalism), then they will stay religious, or will be atheistic with belief in the afterlife. If their fear of death comes from somewhere else, then they can do what you did.

You aren't getting me at all, really.

But I JUST SAID...when they overcome their fear of death...it can happen you know. I've been through it myself. I used to fear death. Now I don't. Why would they follow their whole lives? The therapy doesn't work, that's why. Probably by design, in fact. If they healed everyone, there'd be no business left. :roll:

You're assuming that people never overcome their fears...

Deity_Slapper

But first you are making an assumption here.

I think all religions have some tinge of truth to them, but where they differ with Christianity they are wrong.Theokhoth

They're just wrong, huh? Flat-out wrong? I mean, I agree, but christianity is wrong, too. Why is your religion right, and others' not? Just cause it's yours, right? :lol:

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"] I think all religions have some tinge of truth to them, but where they differ with Christianity they are wrong.Deity_Slapper

They're just wrong, huh? Flat-out wrong? I mean, I agree, but christianity is wrong, too. Why is your religion right, and others' not? Just cause it's yours, right? :lol:

Yeah, pretty much. Why would I follow a religion I thought was inevitably wrong?

[QUOTE="Adrianstalker"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="soren008"]

So your a Christian then... so arn't all the other religions according to you blind & based on a false idea ?

Theokhoth

No. I'm not an atheist. I think all religions have some tinge of truth to them, but where they differ with Christianity they are wrong. Like a math problem. You can get close to the answer, but no matter how you put it, 2+2 will always equal 4.

Really? How convenient

Basically your fairyland is the only 100% true one. Thank god you are wrong

Aww. Did you catch the irony yet?

Yeah, I did... quite funny

You are talking about heaven and hell, and you mention the word irony...Thats the irony

If their fear of death stems from their belief that nothing happens after death (naturalism), then they will stay religious, or will be atheistic with belief in the afterlife. If their fear of death comes from somewhere else, then they can do what you did.Theokhoth

If they have a belief that nothing happens after they die, then why would they stay religious? Or, how could they be atheists with a belief in an afterlife? An afterlife is clearly the creation of a higher power. Atheists don't buy that.

You aren't getting me at all, really.

Theokhoth

I think it's the other way around, but now that I think about it, maybe it's a good thing if I'm not getting you. :lol:

[QUOTE="soren008"]

I wasn't asking whether you were an athiest ? :|

Stop with the pretentious 2+2 BS ...

If you believe in Christianity, by your logic other believers of a different religion will go to hell ?

Theokhoth

Probably. I don't know for certain. The 2+2 thing is to demonstrate my point via analogy.

By "other believers of a different religion," do you mean people who follow x religion and never hear about Christianity, or other?

"Probably".... good ..

now back to you saying the 9/11 bomber's "conviction was based on a false idea"

Was the conviction false because it wasn't based on the Islamic code, or false because the Islamic code is false ?

I'm right, all convictions are the same ...

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] I think all religions have some tinge of truth to them, but where they differ with Christianity they are wrong.Theokhoth

They're just wrong, huh? Flat-out wrong? I mean, I agree, but christianity is wrong, too. Why is your religion right, and others' not? Just cause it's yours, right? :lol:

Yeah, pretty much. Why would I follow a religion I thought was inevitably wrong?

Riiiight...but why is theirs wrong, and yours isn't? :?

JUST CAUSE IT'S YOURS?!?!? :lol: So silly...

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] I think all religions have some tinge of truth to them, but where they differ with Christianity they are wrong.Theokhoth

They're just wrong, huh? Flat-out wrong? I mean, I agree, but christianity is wrong, too. Why is your religion right, and others' not? Just cause it's yours, right? :lol:

Yeah, pretty much. Why would I follow a religion I thought was inevitably wrong?

How does it make you feel knowing somebody just like you has the exact same conviction that your going to hell?

If they have a belief that nothing happens after they die, then why would they stay religious?

The just in case factor. Pascal's Wager.

Or, how could they be atheists with a belief in an afterlife? An afterlife is clearly the creation of a higher power. Atheists don't buy that.

Some certainly do, and it is very much possible. Richard Dawkins himself has stated as much, though he doesn't believe in an afterlife (as far as I know).

I think it's the other way around, but now that I think about it, maybe it's a good thing if I'm not getting you. :lol:

I can only wonder why. . .

Deity_Slapper

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Yeah, pretty much. Why would I follow a religion I thought was inevitably wrong?

Deity_Slapper

Riiiight...but why is theirs wrong, and yours isn't? :?

JUST CAUSE IT'S YOURS?!?!? :lol: So silly...

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] I think all religions have some tinge of truth to them, but where they differ with Christianity they are wrong.soren008

They're just wrong, huh? Flat-out wrong? I mean, I agree, but christianity is wrong, too. Why is your religion right, and others' not? Just cause it's yours, right? :lol:

Yeah, pretty much. Why would I follow a religion I thought was inevitably wrong?

How does it make you feel knowing somebody just like you has the exact same conviction that your going to hell?

Conviction? What does conviction really mean in the long run?

Riiiight...but why is theirs wrong, and yours isn't? :?

Deity_Slapper

I think you've really missed my point. Again. Deliberately or not, I can't tell.

"Probably".... good ..

now back to you saying the 9/11 bomber's "conviction was based on a false idea"

Was the conviction false because it wasn't based on the Islamic code, or false because the Islamic code is false ?

Either/or. It wasn't based on the Islamic Code, so you might want to go with that.

I'm right, all convictions are the same ...

No, no they aren't.

soren008

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Yeah, pretty much. Why would I follow a religion I thought was inevitably wrong?

LJS9502_basic

Riiiight...but why is theirs wrong, and yours isn't? :?

JUST CAUSE IT'S YOURS?!?!? :lol: So silly...

And because they missed your pieces of the puzzle there going on a one way ticket to hell ... :P

I hope you know you missed their pieces as well ...

However, I'm not judging other religions as terrible ideas....merely missing the important piece of the puzzle.LJS9502_basic

Following a religion that is missing an important piece of the puzzle would be a terrible idea, would it not? ;)

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

If they have a belief that nothing happens after they die, then why would they stay religious?Theokhoth

The just in case factor. Pascal's Wager.

That would be a coward, not an atheist. :lol:

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

If they have a belief that nothing happens after they die, then why would they stay religious?Deity_Slapper

The just in case factor. Pascal's Wager.

That would be a coward, not an atheist. :lol:

We aren't talking about atheists. And atheists can be cowards, too. It's not connected to your religion.;)

And because they missed your pieces of the puzzle there going on a one way ticket to hell ... :P

I hope you know you missed their pieces as well ...

soren008

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]However, I'm not judging other religions as terrible ideas....merely missing the important piece of the puzzle.Deity_Slapper

Following a religion that is missing an important piece of the puzzle would be a terrible idea, would it not? ;)

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]However, I'm not judging other religions as terrible ideas....merely missing the important piece of the puzzle.LJS9502_basic

Following a religion that is missing an important piece of the puzzle would be a terrible idea, would it not? ;)

It's common sense, sir. :|

I wouldn't want a house without a foundation, or a car without an engine...those are IMPORTANT pieces, and it would be a "terrible idea" to purchase either one, if they lacked such pieces.

Next... :roll:

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]However, I'm not judging other religions as terrible ideas....merely missing the important piece of the puzzle.Deity_Slapper

Following a religion that is missing an important piece of the puzzle would be a terrible idea, would it not? ;)

It's common sense, sir. :|

I wouldn't want a house without a foundation, or a car without an engine...those are IMPORTANT pieces, and it would be a "terrible idea" to purchase either one, if they lacked such pieces.

Next... :roll:

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]However, I'm not judging other religions as terrible ideas....merely missing the important piece of the puzzle.LJS9502_basic

Following a religion that is missing an important piece of the puzzle would be a terrible idea, would it not? ;)

It's common sense, sir. :|

I wouldn't want a house without a foundation, or a car without an engine...those are IMPORTANT pieces, and it would be a "terrible idea" to purchase either one, if they lacked such pieces.

Next... :roll:

Those other religions have a god...so then, they're not missing important pieces after all? Is this what you're saying?

Oh, by the way, you have to prove god even exists before you can start claiming things about him...dressing him up with fancy titles like, "the foundation". :lol:

[QUOTE="soren008"]

And because they missed your pieces of the puzzle there going on a one way ticket to hell ... :P

I hope you know you missed their pieces as well ...

LJS9502_basic

Now, belief in GOD is a very simple idea .. but those depictions of the Gods do vary in the many religious scriptures ?

So I'm guessing you believe that "force"(god) can be served in many different ways ... the islamic people believe in the same GOD as you? just in different ways ?

Based on the Islamic code your missing a lot of pieces ...based on the buddhist code your missing some too ...

Do you believe in Heaven and Hell? or are you a cherry picker ?

However, I'm not judging other religions as terrible ideas....merely missing the important piece of the puzzle.LJS9502_basic

You assume they are trying to build the same puzzle as you are.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and every other world religion has each built their own separate puzzle. When you put all these pieces together in the same box, you'll find that they all are cut from the same board. Salvation. If somebody else can achieve it in a way different from your own, they are not wrong, they are just different.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]However, I'm not judging other religions as terrible ideas....merely missing the important piece of the puzzle.Deity_Slapper

Following a religion that is missing an important piece of the puzzle would be a terrible idea, would it not? ;)

It's common sense, sir. :|

I wouldn't want a house without a foundation, or a car without an engine...those are IMPORTANT pieces, and it would be a "terrible idea" to purchase either one, if they lacked such pieces.

Next... :roll:

Those other religions have a god...so then, they're not missing important pieces after all? Is this what you're saying?

Oh, by the way, you have to prove god even exists before you can start claiming things about him...dressing him up with fancy titles like, "the foundation". :lol:

I think that he is trying to tell us, that most religions have certain common features. For instance, belief in God and afterlife.They differ on certain aspects, for instance Muslims considering Jesus(P.B.U.H.) as prophet and Christians considering him as son of God.

I think that he is trying to tell us, that most religions have certain common features. For instance, belief in God and afterlife.They differ on certain aspects, for instance Muslims considering Jesus(P.B.U.H.) as prophet and Christians considering him as son of God. MFaraz_Hayat

Nope. You're missing an important piece of the puzzle. Just ask him. :roll:

I think that he is trying to tell us, that most religions have certain common features. For instance, belief in God and afterlife.They differ on certain aspects, for instance Muslims considering Jesus(P.B.U.H.) as prophet and Christians considering him as son of God.

MFaraz_Hayat

You know, until someone corrected me, I always thought that "pbuh" thing was an insult.

I'm an idiot.

[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]I think that he is trying to tell us, that most religions have certain common features. For instance, belief in God and afterlife.They differ on certain aspects, for instance Muslims considering Jesus(P.B.U.H.) as prophet and Christians considering him as son of God. Deity_Slapper

Nope. You're missing an important piece of the puzzle. Just ask him. :roll:

I think the role of Jesus is the "puzzle", with Islam treating this aspect by calling him a Prophet and Christianity calling him the son of God,

It's these kinds of topics, debates, fights, etc that made me stop following Christianity altogether.

When it comes to debates like McCain vs Obama, I don't generally see too many fights. I'm being presumpuous, but a lot of debates that deal solely with, dare I say it: human affairs, it's civil for the most part. I'm not saying fist fighting and doo-doo throwing doesn't happen, but not as much as this:

When any kind of debate whatsoever deals with the Bible, directly or indirectly, it's SO much more prone to long drawn out arguments and a much bigger seperation of opposing sides.

People want to believe in life after death, a superior being, a promised land, and other things so much that it creates a big seperation of other religions and athiests. Why do debates like this have to be so ****ing hot? Why can't people just use their religions as guidelines and not necessarily have to nit-pick every single detail. Shine on any thiest that have taken those steps and are okay with some historical things the Bible states as not necessarily true and shine on any athiest who is okay with religion.