High Income inequality is detrimental to a societies wellbeing.

[QUOTE="EntropyWins"]Yes it does.airshocker

How? If I'm being taxed even more to pay for other people, how am I being rewarded?

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"][QUOTE="EntropyWins"] Yes it does. EntropyWins

ilovegames, please tell me how you think wages are deterimined and why. Thanks.

SpartanMSU

Anytime time now, ilovegames1992...

Increased effort on egalitarianism would translate into the social trend of a decreased crime rate, so then you'd be able to spend even more time arguing how socialism doesn't benefit you on the off-topic board of a video game site.

THE_DRUGGIE

Maybe that makes a difference for NYPD cops, but I'm not NYPD. So how else am I benefitted?

[QUOTE="EntropyWins"]So what you mean is that it does not allow you to get overpaid for your work? Then I suppose that is true. airshocker

It's not overpaid...it's the price the market determines.

I think they didn't pay attention in econ 101.

If you work harder/smarter you will still get a better job that pays more just like in America . If you work more hours you will still get paid more for you work, same as now. Is that not rewarding you for hard work?EntropyWins

No, because you're taking more money out of my pay check to pay for other people. So I'll be rewarded less for working just like I always do./

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

Increased effort on egalitarianism would translate into the social trend of a decreased crime rate, so then you'd be able to spend even more time arguing how socialism doesn't benefit you on the off-topic board of a video game site.

airshocker

Maybe that makes a difference for NYPD cops, but I'm not NYPD. So how else am I benefitted?

Egalitarianism also leads to increased consumer confidence, which then benefits both large and small businesses by increasing the amount of money spent in the private sector by the public.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="RushKing"] Socalist by the standards of a americain right winger.Crunchy_Nuts

Yes it does.EntropyWins

How? If I'm being taxed even more to pay for other people, how am I being rewarded?

[QUOTE="EntropyWins"][QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"] Only to a certain extent.xscrapzx

Egalitarianism also leads to increased consumer confidence, which then benefits both large and small businesses by increasing the amount of money spent in the private sector by the public.

THE_DRUGGIE

But taxes will have gone up dramatically, so how can I spend more money than I am right now?

I still don't see how that actually benefits me, though. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say. How am I affected by business making more money?

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

Increased effort on egalitarianism would translate into the social trend of a decreased crime rate, so then you'd be able to spend even more time arguing how socialism doesn't benefit you on the off-topic board of a video game site.

Maybe that makes a difference for NYPD cops, but I'm not NYPD. So how else am I benefitted?

Egalitarianism also leads to increased consumer confidence, which then benefits both large and small businesses by increasing the amount of money spent in the private sector by the public.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="EntropyWins"] So what you mean is that it does not allow you to get overpaid for your work? Then I suppose that is true. EntropyWins

Kuraimen, are you ever going to tell me what you do for a living? I've asked you three times now.

[QUOTE="EntropyWins"]If you work harder/smarter you will still get a better job that pays more just like in America . If you work more hours you will still get paid more for you work, same as now. Is that not rewarding you for hard work?airshocker

No, because you're taking more money out of my pay check to pay for other people. So I'll be rewarded less for working just like I always do./

You need a balance.Of course, if inequality is high enough to the point where social mobility becomes extremely difficult, then it is less like capitalism and more like feudalism with a oligopoly controlling most real economic power. And if there is too much focus on keeping a society egalitarian (particularly by force), that can stymie incentives and lead to a bloated public sector. That said, every country is different, and trying to do anything too fast in addressing inequality is a recipe for disaster.

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

Egalitarianism also leads to increased consumer confidence, which then benefits both large and small businesses by increasing the amount of money spent in the private sector by the public.

airshocker

But taxes will have gone up dramatically, so how can I spend more money than I am right now?

I still don't see how that actually benefits me, though. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say. How am I affected by business making more money?

Kuraimen, are you ever going to tell me what you do for a living? I've asked you three times now.

airshocker

So now you admit you will be rewarded for hard work, thank you. EntropyWins

No...I'll be rewarded less under your system. Was I unclear?

If you tax more taxes from me, you are shrinking my paycheck, thus you aren't rewarding me as much as I used to be.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="EntropyWins"]If you work harder/smarter you will still get a better job that pays more just like in America . If you work more hours you will still get paid more for you work, same as now. Is that not rewarding you for hard work?EntropyWins

No, because you're taking more money out of my pay check to pay for other people. So I'll be rewarded less for working just like I always do./

No it is not closer. It's nowhere near close to socialism. Economic freedom indexthemajormayor

[QUOTE="EntropyWins"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] You really have to stop, you are making yourself look foolish and you really need to look up what a true socialist society would be like.xscrapzx

Not at all, I'm just calling for a more pro-active approach to lowering the income gap, which some here think is evil because it equates to socialism

You need a balance.Of course, if inequality is high enough to the point where social mobility becomes extremely difficult, then it is less like capitalism and more like feudalism with a oligopoly controlling most real economic power. And if there is too much focus on keeping a society egalitarian (particularly by force), that can stymie incentives and lead to a bloated public sector. That said, every country is different, and trying to do anything too fast in addressing inequality is a recipe for disaster.

jetpower3

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

Egalitarianism also leads to increased consumer confidence, which then benefits both large and small businesses by increasing the amount of money spent in the private sector by the public.

airshocker

But taxes will have gone up dramatically, so how can I spend more money than I am right now?

I still don't see how that actually benefits me, though. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say. How am I affected by business making more money?

1. The increase in taxes would be offset by the amount of money put into social programs (healthcare being one) that would decrease the amount of money you would have to spend on insurance and the like while then giving you more money to spend in the private sector, which could then be increased even further by the adpotion of a social democratic welfare system (currently, the US has a liberal welfare system), but the increase from the social democratic welfare system would not be necessary, though it would still be a nice boost. Also, this leads to increased income security for the middle cIass in that the funding of social programs eliminates expenses that would otherwise be burdensome or even destructive given unfortunate circumstances.

Also, as far as businesses making more money goes, you are benefitted by having more businesses take their products to your country, perhaps even offering lower prices given the increase in consumer confidence. This means that the private sector would be willing to work with the public and thus the private sector would be able to enjoy benefits from the public sector without having to cater to increased regulations, given that a liberal relationship between the private and public sectors would be set in place.

[QUOTE="EntropyWins"]So now you admit you will be rewarded for hard work, thank you. airshocker

No...I'll be rewarded less under your system. Was I unclear?

If you tax more taxes from me, you are shrinking my paycheck, thus you aren't rewarding me as much as I used to be.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]No it is not closer. It's nowhere near close to socialism. Economic freedom indexCrunchy_Nuts

• Business Freedom - Business freedom is a quantitative measure of the ability to start, operate, and close a business that represents the overall burden of regulation as well as the efficiency of government in the regulatory process.
• Trade Freedom - Trade freedom is a composite measure of the absence of tariff and non-tariff barriers that affect imports and exports of goods and services. Different imports entering a country can, and often do, face different tariffs.
• Monetary Freedom - Monetary freedom combines a measure of price stability with an assessment of price controls. Both inflation and price controls distort market activity. Price stability without microeconomic intervention is the ideal state for the free market.
• Government Size/Spending - This component considers the level of government expenditures as a percentage of GDP. Government expenditures, including consumption and transfers, account for the entire score.
• Fiscal Freedom - Fiscal freedom is a measure of the tax burden imposed by government.
• Property Rights - The property rights component is an assessment of the ability of individuals to accumulate private property, secured by clear laws that are fully enforced by the state.
• Investment Freedom - In an economically free country, there would be no constraints on the flow of investment capital. Individuals and firms would be allowed to move their resources into and out of specific activities both internally and across the country's borders without restriction.
• Financial Freedom - Financial freedom is a measure of banking efficiency as well as a measure of independence from government control and interference in the financial sector.
• Freedom from Corruption - Corruption erodes economic freedom by introducing insecurity and uncertainty into economic relationships. The higher the level of corruption, the lower the level of overall economic freedom and the lower a country's score.
• Labor Freedom - The labor freedom component is a quantitative measure that looks into various aspects of the legal and regulatory framework of a country's labor market.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="EntropyWins"] Who is calling for a pure socialist state? I don't assume all of you are calling for a pure capitalist state, because if that was the case then it would be much easier to point out all the flaws. EntropyWins

Not at all, I'm just calling for a more pro-active approach to lowering the income gap, which some here think is evil because it equates to socialism

I'd like someone to explain to me how wages are determined and why. Thanks.

I'd like someone to explain to me how wages are determined and why. Thanks.

SpartanMSU

High demand of labour higher salary, higher supply of labour lower salary. And unions and sh*t.

• Business Freedom - Business freedom is a quantitative measure of the ability to start, operate, and close a business that represents the overall burden of regulation as well as the efficiency of government in the regulatory process.
• Trade Freedom - Trade freedom is a composite measure of the absence of tariff and non-tariff barriers that affect imports and exports of goods and services. Different imports entering a country can, and often do, face different tariffs.
• Monetary Freedom - Monetary freedom combines a measure of price stability with an assessment of price controls. Both inflation and price controls distort market activity. Price stability without microeconomic intervention is the ideal state for the free market.
• Government Size/Spending - This component considers the level of government expenditures as a percentage of GDP. Government expenditures, including consumption and transfers, account for the entire score.
• Fiscal Freedom - Fiscal freedom is a measure of the tax burden imposed by government.
• Property Rights - The property rights component is an assessment of the ability of individuals to accumulate private property, secured by clear laws that are fully enforced by the state.
• Investment Freedom - In an economically free country, there would be no constraints on the flow of investment capital. Individuals and firms would be allowed to move their resources into and out of specific activities both internally and across the country's borders without restriction.
• Financial Freedom - Financial freedom is a measure of banking efficiency as well as a measure of independence from government control and interference in the financial sector.
• Freedom from Corruption - Corruption erodes economic freedom by introducing insecurity and uncertainty into economic relationships. The higher the level of corruption, the lower the level of overall economic freedom and the lower a country's score.
• Labor Freedom - The labor freedom component is a quantitative measure that looks into various aspects of the legal and regulatory framework of a country's labor market.

themajormayor

And unions and sh*t.themajormayor

1. The increase in taxes would be offset by the amount of money put into social programs (healthcare being one) that would decrease the amount of money you would have to spend on insurance and the like while then giving you more money to spend in the private sector, which could then be increased even further by the adpotion of a social democratic welfare system (currently, the US has a liberal welfare system), but the increase from the social democratic welfare system would not be necessary, though it would still be a nice boost. Also, this leads to increased income security for the middle cIass in that the funding of social programs eliminates expenses that would otherwise be burdensome or even destructive given unfortunate circumstances.

Also, as far as businesses making more money goes, you are benefitted by having more businesses take their products to your country, perhaps even offering lower prices given the increase in consumer confidence. This means that the private sector would be willing to work with the public and thus the private sector would be able to enjoy benefits from the public sector without having to cater to increased regulations, given that a liberal relationship between the private and public sectors would be set in place.

THE_DRUGGIE

Besides not knowing the difference between a social democratic welfare system and a liberal welfare system, I still don't see how I would have anymore money to spend than I do right now. Obviously my taxes are going to have to go up, along with property taxes that I now pay via rent. But if I take into account getting rid of health insurance, I'm still going to have to pay something to the government to get taken care of. I don't see how any of this can be cheaper than what I'm doing now, even if I did get rid of my monthly health insurance payment.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

Egalitarianism also leads to increased consumer confidence, which then benefits both large and small businesses by increasing the amount of money spent in the private sector by the public.

But taxes will have gone up dramatically, so how can I spend more money than I am right now?

I still don't see how that actually benefits me, though. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say. How am I affected by business making more money?

1. The increase in taxes would be offset by the amount of money put into social programs (healthcare being one) that would decrease the amount of money you would have to spend on insurance and the like while then giving you more money to spend in the private sector, which could then be increased even further by the adpotion of a social democratic welfare system (currently, the US has a liberal welfare system), but the increase from the social democratic welfare system would not be necessary, though it would still be a nice boost. Also, this leads to increased income security for the middle cIass in that the funding of social programs eliminates expenses that would otherwise be burdensome or even destructive given unfortunate circumstances.

Also, as far as businesses making more money goes, you are benefitted by having more businesses take their products to your country, perhaps even offering lower prices given the increase in consumer confidence. This means that the private sector would be willing to work with the public and thus the private sector would be able to enjoy benefits from the public sector without having to cater to increased regulations, given that a liberal relationship between the private and public sectors would be set in place.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

• Business Freedom - Business freedom is a quantitative measure of the ability to start, operate, and close a business that represents the overall burden of regulation as well as the efficiency of government in the regulatory process.
• Trade Freedom - Trade freedom is a composite measure of the absence of tariff and non-tariff barriers that affect imports and exports of goods and services. Different imports entering a country can, and often do, face different tariffs.
• Monetary Freedom - Monetary freedom combines a measure of price stability with an assessment of price controls. Both inflation and price controls distort market activity. Price stability without microeconomic intervention is the ideal state for the free market.
• Government Size/Spending - This component considers the level of government expenditures as a percentage of GDP. Government expenditures, including consumption and transfers, account for the entire score.
• Fiscal Freedom - Fiscal freedom is a measure of the tax burden imposed by government.
• Property Rights - The property rights component is an assessment of the ability of individuals to accumulate private property, secured by clear laws that are fully enforced by the state.
• Investment Freedom - In an economically free country, there would be no constraints on the flow of investment capital. Individuals and firms would be allowed to move their resources into and out of specific activities both internally and across the country's borders without restriction.
• Financial Freedom - Financial freedom is a measure of banking efficiency as well as a measure of independence from government control and interference in the financial sector.
• Freedom from Corruption - Corruption erodes economic freedom by introducing insecurity and uncertainty into economic relationships. The higher the level of corruption, the lower the level of overall economic freedom and the lower a country's score.
• Labor Freedom - The labor freedom component is a quantitative measure that looks into various aspects of the legal and regulatory framework of a country's labor market.

I'd like someone to explain to me how wages are determined and why. Thanks.

SpartanMSU

I can't say that it would or would not. Assuming you make somewhere in the middle range of salaries in America it may not affect you at all. The goal would be to bring both extremes of the income spectrum closer to the center. EntropyWins

I live in New York, so my salary is a bit higher than most other places.

Taxes would have to increase for any more socialized programs. We can't even afford the ones we have right now, FFS.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

• Business Freedom - Business freedom is a quantitative measure of the ability to start, operate, and close a business that represents the overall burden of regulation as well as the efficiency of government in the regulatory process.
• Trade Freedom - Trade freedom is a composite measure of the absence of tariff and non-tariff barriers that affect imports and exports of goods and services. Different imports entering a country can, and often do, face different tariffs.
• Monetary Freedom - Monetary freedom combines a measure of price stability with an assessment of price controls. Both inflation and price controls distort market activity. Price stability without microeconomic intervention is the ideal state for the free market.
• Government Size/Spending - This component considers the level of government expenditures as a percentage of GDP. Government expenditures, including consumption and transfers, account for the entire score.
• Fiscal Freedom - Fiscal freedom is a measure of the tax burden imposed by government.
• Property Rights - The property rights component is an assessment of the ability of individuals to accumulate private property, secured by clear laws that are fully enforced by the state.
• Investment Freedom - In an economically free country, there would be no constraints on the flow of investment capital. Individuals and firms would be allowed to move their resources into and out of specific activities both internally and across the country's borders without restriction.
• Financial Freedom - Financial freedom is a measure of banking efficiency as well as a measure of independence from government control and interference in the financial sector.
• Freedom from Corruption - Corruption erodes economic freedom by introducing insecurity and uncertainty into economic relationships. The higher the level of corruption, the lower the level of overall economic freedom and the lower a country's score.
• Labor Freedom - The labor freedom component is a quantitative measure that looks into various aspects of the legal and regulatory framework of a country's labor market.

Crunchy_Nuts

So essentially a bunch of money based freedoms (which by the way smarter workers should have more of.) Labour freedoms are fine, unskilled workers will have to do labour work and as long as their human rights are maintained everything is fare game. Corruption is easy to fix. Find the corrupt and shoot them. Bingo.

xscrapzx

[QUOTE="SpartanMSU"]

I'd like someone to explain to me how wages are determined and why. Thanks.

EntropyWins

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

1. The increase in taxes would be offset by the amount of money put into social programs (healthcare being one) that would decrease the amount of money you would have to spend on insurance and the like while then giving you more money to spend in the private sector, which could then be increased even further by the adpotion of a social democratic welfare system (currently, the US has a liberal welfare system), but the increase from the social democratic welfare system would not be necessary, though it would still be a nice boost. Also, this leads to increased income security for the middle cIass in that the funding of social programs eliminates expenses that would otherwise be burdensome or even destructive given unfortunate circumstances.

Also, as far as businesses making more money goes, you are benefitted by having more businesses take their products to your country, perhaps even offering lower prices given the increase in consumer confidence. This means that the private sector would be willing to work with the public and thus the private sector would be able to enjoy benefits from the public sector without having to cater to increased regulations, given that a liberal relationship between the private and public sectors would be set in place.

airshocker

Besides not knowing the difference between a social democratic welfare system and a liberal welfare system, I still don't see how I would have anymore money to spend than I do right now. Obviously my taxes are going to have to go up, along with property taxes that I now pay via rent. But if I take into account getting rid of health insurance, I'm still going to have to pay something to the government to get taken care of. I don't see how any of this can be cheaper than what I'm doing now, even if I did get rid of my monthly health insurance payment.

liberal welfare system = US system (needs-based)

social democratic = Swedish system (general benefits like schooling, healthcare), basically redistribution of wealth through taxation

The social benefits are the main attraction here, as they reduce the wealth gap and increase confidence in the economy for persons in the middle to lower classes. The fact of the matter is that, if you only focus on your money and absolutely nothing else, you fail to see how the social benefits would translate into a stronger market, and thus lower product prices so you could, in fact, get more for your money.

[QUOTE="jetpower3"]

You need a balance.Of course, if inequality is high enough to the point where social mobility becomes extremely difficult, then it is less like capitalism and more like feudalism with a oligopoly controlling most real economic power. And if there is too much focus on keeping a society egalitarian (particularly by force), that can stymie incentives and lead to a bloated public sector. That said, every country is different, and trying to do anything too fast in addressing inequality is a recipe for disaster.

xscrapzx

Thanks. Additionally, it is by no means an easy process. Too much free or easy money can ironically be very counterproductive (check out the "resource curse" and "speculative bubbles"), and too much scarcity leads to companies cutting costs and being very careful with their capital allocations (not too different than the current situation the U.S. is in - also fuels inequality, particularly among younger people with less experience and negotiating leverage). If one is not careful, these situations can follow one another in rapid succession (boom and bust, over and over). Obviously however, bubbles are for the most part sudden and untenable to control. Managing consistent growth and cushioning the blows are key, and one of the most elusive economic ideas in an unstable world.

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

• Business Freedom - Business freedom is a quantitative measure of the ability to start, operate, and close a business that represents the overall burden of regulation as well as the efficiency of government in the regulatory process.
• Trade Freedom - Trade freedom is a composite measure of the absence of tariff and non-tariff barriers that affect imports and exports of goods and services. Different imports entering a country can, and often do, face different tariffs.
• Monetary Freedom - Monetary freedom combines a measure of price stability with an assessment of price controls. Both inflation and price controls distort market activity. Price stability without microeconomic intervention is the ideal state for the free market.
• Government Size/Spending - This component considers the level of government expenditures as a percentage of GDP. Government expenditures, including consumption and transfers, account for the entire score.
• Fiscal Freedom - Fiscal freedom is a measure of the tax burden imposed by government.
• Property Rights - The property rights component is an assessment of the ability of individuals to accumulate private property, secured by clear laws that are fully enforced by the state.
• Investment Freedom - In an economically free country, there would be no constraints on the flow of investment capital. Individuals and firms would be allowed to move their resources into and out of specific activities both internally and across the country's borders without restriction.
• Financial Freedom - Financial freedom is a measure of banking efficiency as well as a measure of independence from government control and interference in the financial sector.
• Freedom from Corruption - Corruption erodes economic freedom by introducing insecurity and uncertainty into economic relationships. The higher the level of corruption, the lower the level of overall economic freedom and the lower a country's score.
• Labor Freedom - The labor freedom component is a quantitative measure that looks into various aspects of the legal and regulatory framework of a country's labor market.

themajormayor

[QUOTE="SpartanMSU"]

I'd like someone to explain to me how wages are determined and why. Thanks.

EntropyWins

You didn't answer my question...

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"] So essentially a bunch of money based freedoms (which by the way smarter workers should have more of.) Labour freedoms are fine, unskilled workers will have to do labour work and as long as their human rights are maintained everything is fare game. Corruption is easy to fix. Find the corrupt and shoot them. Bingo.

Crunchy_Nuts

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] I don't see what you're talking about. The freer economy according to these criterias means less government involvement which means more capitalism. themajormayor

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"] So you're saying that to get a more freedoms we have to let more government in first. They'd love us to fall for that one wouldn't they.Crunchy_Nuts