How do people in USA feel about Native Americans?

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Fair and square? Have you even read US history?redstorm72

Fair in the sense that EVERY single nation on earth was formed by taking land forcefully from someone. It sucks but that was (and still sort of is) how the world works.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

lol your joking right?

ghoklebutter

Anarchists are just a bunch of pansies, your all complete jokes. How about someone just break into your home then, after all the concept of owning land makes no sense to you, so don't call the cops when someone intrudes on your property. And you pay taxes and drive on public roads and use police departmetns and schools ect...your not an anarchist, you just want to pretend you are so you can be "cool".

Your probably just some kid who doesn't know any better. People who claim to be anarchists are just silly.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

lol your joking right?

ShadowMoses900

Anarchists are just a bunch of pansies, your all complete jokes. How about someone just break into your home then, after all the concept of owning land makes no sense to you, so don't call the cops when someone intrudes on your property. And you pay taxes and drive on public roads and use police departmetns and schools ect...your not an anarchist, you just want to pretend you are so you can be "cool".

Your probably just some kid who doesn't know any better. People who claim to be anarchists are just silly.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Not at all. majoras_wrath

Anarchists are just a bunch of pansies, your all complete jokes. How about someone just break into your home then, after all the concept of owning land makes no sense to you, so don't call the cops when someone intrudes on your property. And you pay taxes and drive on public roads and use police departmetns and schools ect...your not an anarchist, you just want to pretend you are so you can be "cool".

Your probably just some kid who doesn't know any better. People who claim to be anarchists are just silly.

No one gives two sh!ts about him, have you ever seen The Road? Because that's Anarchy is. In a real anrachy setting people would form into tribes (which means obeying some rules and customs of said tribe) and setting up camps (land ownership and terriorty) and defend and fight other groups for resources or whatever (war).

As you can clearly see, you anarchists are hypocrites who are just trying to be "cool", I bet that guy paid taxes and used public services and when shopping in society right? Ya like I said, kids. Mabey not in body, but defianetly in mind.

[QUOTE="majoras_wrath"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]Anarchists are just a bunch of pansies, your all complete jokes. How about someone just break into your home then, after all the concept of owning land makes no sense to you, so don't call the cops when someone intrudes on your property. And you pay taxes and drive on public roads and use police departmetns and schools ect...your not an anarchist, you just want to pretend you are so you can be "cool".Your probably just some kid who doesn't know any better. People who claim to be anarchists are just silly.ShadowMoses900

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

lol your joking right?

ShadowMoses900

Anarchists are just a bunch of pansies, your all complete jokes. How about someone just break into your home then, after all the concept of owning land makes no sense to you, so don't call the cops when someone intrudes on your property. And you pay taxes and drive on public roads and use police departmetns and schools ect...your not an anarchist, you just want to pretend you are so you can be "cool".

Your probably just some kid who doesn't know any better. People who claim to be anarchists are just silly.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"][QUOTE="majoras_wrath"] Heh. Like Noam Chomsky right? What a f*cking kid. [spoiler] complaining about ignorance while blatantly displaying your own. oh my [/spoiler] majoras_wrath

All I hear from this post of your is "Shadow kicked my ass, I'm upset now, I'm going to throw insults like a child at him blah blah blah"

Get over yourself. I don't care about his ligustic theories, all that is well and good. But he is still an idiot and hypocrite for being an Anarchist. Your all a bunch of jokes.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Fair and square? Have you even read US history?ghoklebutter

Fair in the sense that EVERY single nation on earth was formed by taking land forcefully from someone. It sucks but that was (and still sort of is) how the world works.

Alright, why don't you take the first step and give up your house to the people whose ancestors once owned the land your house is on? It's 's only fair since that land was wrongfully taken from them, right?

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Not at all. ghoklebutter

Anarchists are just a bunch of pansies, your all complete jokes. How about someone just break into your home then, after all the concept of owning land makes no sense to you, so don't call the cops when someone intrudes on your property. And you pay taxes and drive on public roads and use police departmetns and schools ect...your not an anarchist, you just want to pretend you are so you can be "cool".

Your probably just some kid who doesn't know any better. People who claim to be anarchists are just silly.

Anarchy means no lay or order, what fantasy world do you live in? There wouldbeno "Crime", how can you claim to be something you don't even understand? If this was anarchy (anarchist society is an oxymoron btw) then I could take whatever the hell I want from you, after all you siad you don't believe in property in the first place so you could just give it to me like a wuss and not fight back.

And lol at being an anarchist and a pacifist, you'd be dead within an hour of an anarchy environement. A guy would come along and try to hurt you and your family and you would let them and get killed in the process. And no sh!t your not an anarchist in practice, if your were you'd be arrested. Your not an anarchist period, your just a joke.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Fair and square? Have you even read US history?redstorm72

Fair in the sense that EVERY single nation on earth was formed by taking land forcefully from someone. It sucks but that was (and still sort of is) how the world works.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="redstorm72"]

Fair in the sense that EVERY single nation on earth was formed by taking land forcefully from someone. It sucks but that was (and still sort of is) how the world works.

redstorm72

Alright, why don't you take the first step and give up your house to the people whose ancestors once owned the land your house is on? It's 's only fair since that land was wrongfully taken from them, right?

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Who cares? One instance of imperialism is just as bad as another. The fact that it's been ubiquitous doesn't mean anything. Just because it's common doesn't mean it shouldn't be opposed.ghoklebutter

Alright, why don't you take the first step and give up your house to the people whose ancestors once owned the land your house is on? It's 's only fair since that land was wrongfully taken from them, right?

Yep, troll confirmed.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Anarchists are just a bunch of pansies, your all complete jokes. How about someone just break into your home then, after all the concept of owning land makes no sense to you, so don't call the cops when someone intrudes on your property. And you pay taxes and drive on public roads and use police departmetns and schools ect...your not an anarchist, you just want to pretend you are so you can be "cool".

Your probably just some kid who doesn't know any better. People who claim to be anarchists are just silly.

ShadowMoses900

Anarchy means no lay or order, what fantasy world do you live in? There wouldbeno "Crime", how can you claim to be something you don't even understand? If this was anarchy (anarchist society is an oxymoron btw) then I could take whatever the hell I want from you, after all you siad you don't believe in property in the first place so you could just give it to me like a wuss and not fight back.

And lol at being an anarchist and a pacifist, you'd be dead within an hour of an anarchy environement. A guy would come along and try to hurt you and your family and you would let them and get killed in the process. And no sh!t your not an anarchist in practice, if your were you'd be arrested. Your not an anarchist period, your just a joke.

Anarchy means no lay or order, what fantasy world do you live in? There wouldbeno "Crime", how can you claim to be something you don't even understand? If this was anarchy (anarchist society is an oxymoron btw) then I could take whatever the hell I want from you, after all you siad you don't believe in property in the first place so you could just give it to me like a wuss and not fight back.

And lol at being an anarchist and a pacifist, you'd be dead within an hour of an anarchy environement. A guy would come along and try to hurt you and your family and you would let them and get killed in the process. And no sh!t your not an anarchist in practice, if your were you'd be arrested. Your not an anarchist period, your just a joke.

ShadowMoses900

No, anarchy is the absence of the state, not necessarily law and order. Anything that is a violation of individual rights can constitute crime - and that includes a host of things, including murder, rape, theft, etc. And no, you can't take something from me because you need my consent and you must actually prove that I don't really need it.

It's true that some anarchist thinkers have advocated violence, but they don't define the whole school of thought. Anarcho-pacifism is, in fact, a real form of anarchism that most people advocate. It involves dismantling the state through nonviolent means. Anyone who thinks that anarchy naturally entails violence is an idiot.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="redstorm72"]

Alright, why don't you take the first step and give up your house to the people whose ancestors once owned the land your house is on? It's 's only fair since that land was wrongfully taken from them, right?

ShadowMoses900

Yep, troll confirmed.

No, that's not a good solution either. Land belongs to no one.ghoklebutter

Well, my propery ownership documents say differently. If you want to get metaphysical about it, yeah, no one can own anything. But really, where do you draw the line? If I can't own a peice of land, can I own a car? A computer? Hell, are my children really even mine? It's pointless to speculate about that though because the world doesn't, and never will, work like that.

Actually the current configuration of nations in the world was largely due to the indoeuropean conquest of the world (one group of people). Before that there were many non expansionist groups that lived well. So you can't say that's how the world or our species works, just that one instance of our species became incredibly violent and conquered almost everybody else.kuraimen

War and conquest are universal human traits (no just European), to say otherwise is just naive.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] No, that's not a good solution either. Land belongs to no one.ghoklebutter

Yep, troll confirmed.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Theft is still a crime in an anarchist society - you're assuming that the institution of private property is the only way to defend possessions. It's not. Usufruct is enough to establish a secure system of material possession. Anyway, I'm not an anarchist in practice, but that doesn't indicate any flaw in anarchism. And you're only assuming that I'm blind because you probably don't even understand what anarchy entails. There can still be a code of law with anarchy, and many serious anarchists are, in fact, pacifists. I suggest that you study anarchism from an unbiased source before you make silly conclusions.Ace6301

Anarchy means no lay or order, what fantasy world do you live in? There wouldbeno "Crime", how can you claim to be something you don't even understand? If this was anarchy (anarchist society is an oxymoron btw) then I could take whatever the hell I want from you, after all you siad you don't believe in property in the first place so you could just give it to me like a wuss and not fight back.

And lol at being an anarchist and a pacifist, you'd be dead within an hour of an anarchy environement. A guy would come along and try to hurt you and your family and you would let them and get killed in the process. And no sh!t your not an anarchist in practice, if your were you'd be arrested. Your not an anarchist period, your just a joke.

The Road was a very respected novel and film, it provided a back drop of how society happens when lose law. That's what anarchy is, stop pretending to be a Mr. Know it all, it's hilarious because your the complete opposite. I think your trolling most of the time honestly, you never seem to know what your talking about.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] No, that's not a good solution either. Land belongs to no one.ghoklebutter

Yep, troll confirmed.

Then give me your house then. After all you don't own it right? I do now.

War and conquest are universal human traits (no just European), to say otherwise is just naive.redstorm72

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]War and conquest are universal human traits (no just European), to say otherwise is just naive.kuraimen

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Anarchy means no lay or order, what fantasy world do you live in? There wouldbeno "Crime", how can you claim to be something you don't even understand? If this was anarchy (anarchist society is an oxymoron btw) then I could take whatever the hell I want from you, after all you siad you don't believe in property in the first place so you could just give it to me like a wuss and not fight back.

And lol at being an anarchist and a pacifist, you'd be dead within an hour of an anarchy environement. A guy would come along and try to hurt you and your family and you would let them and get killed in the process. And no sh!t your not an anarchist in practice, if your were you'd be arrested. Your not an anarchist period, your just a joke.

ShadowMoses900

The Road was a very respected novel and film, it provided a back drop of how society happens when lose law. That's what anarchy is, stop pretending to be a Mr. Know it all, it's hilarious because your the complete opposite. I think your trolling most of the time honestly, you never seem to know what your talking about.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="redstorm72"]War and conquest are universal human traits (no just European), to say otherwise is just naive.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Yep, troll confirmed.

ShadowMoses900

Then give me your house then. After all you don't own it right? I do now.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] Please learn things from actual academic sources rather than basing your entire idea of a political system on a fictional novel/movie. Ace6301

The Road was a very respected novel and film, it provided a back drop of how society happens when lose law. That's what anarchy is, stop pretending to be a Mr. Know it all, it's hilarious because your the complete opposite. I think your trolling most of the time honestly, you never seem to know what your talking about.

Sounds to me like your upset a bit, too bad I don't care. Anarchy is a damn joke, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in fantasy land.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] No. I'm quite serious about my stance against land-acquisition. Land isn't something to be owned by any particular group or individual.ghoklebutter

Then give me your house then. After all you don't own it right? I do now.

But there's no law, I can take whatever I want from you and you can't do a damn thing about it. It would be my guns VS your pacifism, guess which would win?

Don't have anything negative towards them. Would be friends with some, but you don't see any in most states that are actually 100%. Many people have a bit of their genes, but it's a rarity indeed to see a whole blooded Native American Indian.

As to what we did I think it was despicable. Drove them onto reservations and caused them to develop alcoholism at an alarming rate due to their plight. At least, they get some benefits back from the Fed. Govt.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Then give me your house then. After all you don't own it right? I do now.

ShadowMoses900

But there's no law, I can take whatever I want from you and you can't do a damn thing about it. It would be my guns VS your pacifism, guess which would win?

Nevertheless, you bring up an important point. I certainly will abandon anarchism if it becomes clear to me that authority is absolutely necessary for law and order.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

The Road was a very respected novel and film, it provided a back drop of how society happens when lose law. That's what anarchy is, stop pretending to be a Mr. Know it all, it's hilarious because your the complete opposite. I think your trolling most of the time honestly, you never seem to know what your talking about.

ShadowMoses900

Sounds to me like your upset a bit, too bad I don't care. Anarchy is a damn joke, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in fantasy land.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] I actually think the same about you, but then I realize your ideas are more similar to that of a sorely ignorant individual. Please get a clue about anarchism before you try and discuss it while using a post-apocalyptic fiction novel as your only source. May as well argue against Monarchy while citing Mario or Zelda.Ace6301

Sounds to me like your upset a bit, too bad I don't care. Anarchy is a damn joke, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in fantasy land.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] No, in an anarchist society, I actually would own it, and you wouldn't have a right to take it away without my consent. Again, usufruct.ghoklebutter

But there's no law, I can take whatever I want from you and you can't do a damn thing about it. It would be my guns VS your pacifism, guess which would win?

Law enforcement wouldn't exist, it would be just a bunch of guys with guns (me)pushing the people without guns around(you). Where would the freedom be in that? It would just be a savage world, I think you don't know what Anarchy is, I think your describing something else. I recommend you go live with the Amish, they seem to be more catered to what you want.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] I actually think the same about you, but then I realize your ideas are more similar to that of a sorely ignorant individual. Please get a clue about anarchism before you try and discuss it while using a post-apocalyptic fiction novel as your only source. May as well argue against Monarchy while citing Mario or Zelda.Ace6301

Sounds to me like your upset a bit, too bad I don't care. Anarchy is a damn joke, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in fantasy land.

Anarchy is a joke, get over it.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]It's pretty much accepted that humans have been in conflict with each throughout much of history.LJS9502_basic

Anarchy is a joke, get over it.ShadowMoses900

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

But there's no law, I can take whatever I want from you and you can't do a damn thing about it. It would be my guns VS your pacifism, guess which would win?

ShadowMoses900

Law enforcement wouldn't exist, it would be just a bunch of guys with guns (me)pushing the people without guns around(you). Where would the freedom be in that? It would just be a savage world, I think you don't know what Anarchy is, I think your describing something else. I recommend you go live with the Amish, they seem to be more catered to what you want.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] Which history? I just told you that there are anthropological studies that show relatively peaceful and non expansionist groups of people and that even Darwin defended such notion. What is your source?kuraimen

I think war has been going on with humans since like...forever. And while yes the human race as a whole is alot older than 5000 years, however scientists speculate that Modern Man is roughly around 5000 to 6000. Sorry that's the way the world is, it sucks but someday we may have peace.

But I think that only God can truly do that, not man.

So long ago it doesn't even matter anymore. :( Sorry natives!

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] Should I grab the popcorn? I have some time to kill before the Pens game....Ace6301

Anarchy is a joke, get over it.ShadowMoses900

I'm not here to have some internet drama with some teenager, I'm here to have a discussion. One in which you are uneducated with. Anarchy can't work, it's a lack of order, not this magical fantasy land where you believe everyone get's along without law or authority. What would happen is people would come and take what they want from you and your family/group, there's no authority to stop them.

And the fact that you don't believe in owning guns makes you the victim, people with the guns would come and shoot you and take everything. There's no law becasue they ARE the law!

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]You should use some more contemporary than Darwin. History has evolved since his time and much more is known.ShadowMoses900

I think war has been going on with humans since like...forever. And while yes the human race as a whole is alot older than 5000 years, however scientists speculate that Modern Man is roughly around 5000 to 6000. Sorry that's the way the world is, it sucks but someday we may have peace.

But I think that only God can truly do that, not man.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]You should use some more contemporary than Darwin. History has evolved since his time and much more is known.ShadowMoses900

I think war has been going on with humans since like...forever. And while yes the human race as a whole is alot older than 5000 years, however scientists speculate that Modern Man is roughly around 5000 to 6000. Sorry that's the way the world is, it sucks but someday we may have peace.

But I think that only God can truly do that, not man.

Well, my future fiance is Native American so I suppose i like them :P

'm not here to have some internet drama with some teenager, I'm here to have a discussion. One in which you are uneducated with. Anarchy can't work, it's a lack of order, not this magical fantasy land where you believe everyone get's along without law or authority. What would happen is people would come and take what they want from you and your family/group, there's no authority to stop them.And the fact that you don't believe in owning guns makes you the victim, people with the guns would come and shoot you and take everything. There's no law becasue they ARE the law!ShadowMoses900

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]'m not here to have some internet drama with some teenager, I'm here to have a discussion. One in which you are uneducated with. Anarchy can't work, it's a lack of order, not this magical fantasy land where you believe everyone get's along without law or authority. What would happen is people would come and take what they want from you and your family/group, there's no authority to stop them.And the fact that you don't believe in owning guns makes you the victim, people with the guns would come and shoot you and take everything. There's no law becasue they ARE the law!Ace6301

All I got from this is that you don't have any idea what your talking about and this is your way of admitting defeat. Muhahhahaha

Sorry if I upset you, but it's not my fault that you don't know much about this subject. Don't get mad at me.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]'m not here to have some internet drama with some teenager, I'm here to have a discussion. One in which you are uneducated with. Anarchy can't work, it's a lack of order, not this magical fantasy land where you believe everyone get's along without law or authority. What would happen is people would come and take what they want from you and your family/group, there's no authority to stop them.And the fact that you don't believe in owning guns makes you the victim, people with the guns would come and shoot you and take everything. There's no law becasue they ARE the law!ShadowMoses900

All I got from this is that you don't have any idea what your talking about and this is your way of admitting defeat. Muhahhahaha

Sorry if I upset you, but it's not my fault that you don't know much about this subject. Don't get mad at me.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] In the future I'd suggest if you wish to have anyone take you seriously in a discussion that you should actually demonstrate knowledge in what you're talking about. I can't say I'm too surprised given your demonstrated lack of understanding on the subject of other political ideas in the past but I guess I'm an optimist when it comes to people like you. Now, would you please go look up any actual definition of anarchy? I don't even care if you don't admit I'm right, I just want you to learn.Ace6301

All I got from this is that you don't have any idea what your talking about and this is your way of admitting defeat. Muhahhahaha

Sorry if I upset you, but it's not my fault that you don't know much about this subject. Don't get mad at me.

It got deralied by people who don't know what Anarchy is.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

All I got from this is that you don't have any idea what your talking about and this is your way of admitting defeat. Muhahhahaha

Sorry if I upset you, but it's not my fault that you don't know much about this subject. Don't get mad at me.

ShadowMoses900

It got deralied by people who don't know what Anarchy is.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] What ever happened to wishing to have a debate?Ace6301

It got deralied by people who don't know what Anarchy is.

Anarchy is a lack of order, there is no law in such an environement. And all these anarchists are jokes, I don't know which anarchy you are thinking of, but it's not the real one.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

It got deralied by people who don't know what Anarchy is.

ShadowMoses900

Anarchy is a lack of order, there is no law in such an environement. And all these anarchists are jokes, I don't know which anarchy you are thinking of, but it's not the real one.