I have a question for Christians...

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LJS9502_basic

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#51 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

He presented his interpretation of the texts. Just like everyone else has been doing for the past 2,000 years.

worlock77

The texts are clear on that so he wasn't presenting an interpretation in line with what was actually written. That would be like my interpretation of your post as saying you said....it's okay to make up facts. Is my interpretation accurate? Would I be creating falsehoods about you if I spread that as a valid reading of your post?

What? We're talking about a book of myths and fables that have been copied, translated, interpreted and reinterpreted countless times over the last 2,000 years. And yes, I can easily see how one could get "God had sex with Mary" out of the notion that the woman became pregnent through the Holy Spirit. And yes, you are being pedantic. You always do this. Your argue over minutia and wording while avoiding the overall point the person was making.

The point the person was making was wrong......and your arguing over my correction of the text is more along the lines of arguing minutia.;)

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Stavrogin_

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#52 Stavrogin_
Member since 2011 • 804 Posts
[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]I have a question for christians, if i'm allowed. If god is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, how do christians justify the numerous contradictions in the bible which is supposed to be the word of god. God "can't be wrong" and yet the bible has so many mistakes and contradictions. How do you justify this and continue to believe?

Christians? Anyone here?
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LJS9502_basic

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#53 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts
[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]I have a question for christians, if i'm allowed. If god is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, how do christians justify the numerous contradictions in the bible which is supposed to be the word of god. God "can't be wrong" and yet the bible has so many mistakes and contradictions. How do you justify this and continue to believe?

Christians? Anyone here?

That's a bit vague. What do you expect Christians to do with that?
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worlock77

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#54 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The texts are clear on that so he wasn't presenting an interpretation in line with what was actually written. That would be like my interpretation of your post as saying you said....it's okay to make up facts. Is my interpretation accurate? Would I be creating falsehoods about you if I spread that as a valid reading of your post? LJS9502_basic

What? We're talking about a book of myths and fables that have been copied, translated, interpreted and reinterpreted countless times over the last 2,000 years. And yes, I can easily see how one could get "God had sex with Mary" out of the notion that the woman became pregnent through the Holy Spirit. And yes, you are being pedantic. You always do this. Your argue over minutia and wording while avoiding the overall point the person was making.

The point the person was making was wrong......and your arguing over my correction of the text is more along the lines of arguing minutia.;)

No, the point the person was making was a matter of personal interpretation. I'm not sure what about that is so difficult for you to grasp.

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LJS9502_basic

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#55 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

What? We're talking about a book of myths and fables that have been copied, translated, interpreted and reinterpreted countless times over the last 2,000 years. And yes, I can easily see how one could get "God had sex with Mary" out of the notion that the woman became pregnent through the Holy Spirit. And yes, you are being pedantic. You always do this. Your argue over minutia and wording while avoiding the overall point the person was making.

worlock77

The point the person was making was wrong......and your arguing over my correction of the text is more along the lines of arguing minutia.;)

No, the point the person was making was a matter of personal interpretation. I'm not sure what about that is so difficult for you to grasp.

And as I just pointed out to you personal interpretation is not the answer when one ignores what's on the written page. What is difficult to grasp about that?
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worlock77

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#56 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]I have a question for christians, if i'm allowed. If god is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, how do christians justify the numerous contradictions in the bible which is supposed to be the word of god. God "can't be wrong" and yet the bible has so many mistakes and contradictions. How do you justify this and continue to believe?LJS9502_basic
Christians? Anyone here?

That's a bit vague. What do you expect Christians to do with that?

Vague? I thought it was pretty to the point.

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parkurtommo

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#57 parkurtommo
Member since 2009 • 28295 Posts

A thread questioning the bible? Bravo! *golf clap*

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worlock77

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#58 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] The point the person was making was wrong......and your arguing over my correction of the text is more along the lines of arguing minutia.;)

LJS9502_basic

No, the point the person was making was a matter of personal interpretation. I'm not sure what about that is so difficult for you to grasp.

And as I just pointed out to you personal interpretation is not the answer when one ignores what's on the written page. What is difficult to grasp about that?

What exactly did he ignore?

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LJS9502_basic

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#59 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

No, the point the person was making was a matter of personal interpretation. I'm not sure what about that is so difficult for you to grasp.

worlock77

And as I just pointed out to you personal interpretation is not the answer when one ignores what's on the written page. What is difficult to grasp about that?

What exactly did he ignore?

The actual words in the Bible....
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LJS9502_basic

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#60 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts
Vague? I thought it was pretty to the point.worlock77
Oh yes....very straight to the point is the word contradictions. Very specific that is.:|
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parkurtommo

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#61 parkurtommo
Member since 2009 • 28295 Posts

I've never beleived in fairy tales, they're just too... fake.

*waits for religious fanatic*

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weezyfb

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#62 weezyfb
Member since 2009 • 14703 Posts
many people in the bible probably did not exist ie adam and eve
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alexside1

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#63 alexside1
Member since 2006 • 4412 Posts

I've never beleived in fairy tales, they're just too... fake.

*waits for religious fanatic*

parkurtommo
What exactly are you trying to do here?
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worlock77

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#64 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]And as I just pointed out to you personal interpretation is not the answer when one ignores what's on the written page. What is difficult to grasp about that?LJS9502_basic

What exactly did he ignore?

The actual words in the Bible....

What words?

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Stavrogin_

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#65 Stavrogin_
Member since 2011 • 804 Posts

That's a bit vague. What do you expect Christians to do with that?LJS9502_basic
You want me to be more concise? No problem.

1. God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.

2. The bible is the word of god.

3. The bible has mistakes and contradictions.

Question: How do you justify this and continue to believe?

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LJS9502_basic

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#66 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That's a bit vague. What do you expect Christians to do with that?Stavrogin_

You want me to be more concise? No problem.

1. God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.

2. The bible is the word of god.

3. The bible has mistakes and contradictions.

Question: How do you justify this and continue to believe?

That isn't specific. Number three is vague.....how am I supposed to know what you are talking about?
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alexside1

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#67 alexside1
Member since 2006 • 4412 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That's a bit vague. What do you expect Christians to do with that?Stavrogin_

You want me to be more concise? No problem.

1. God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.

2. The bible is the word of god.

3. The bible has mistakes and contradictions.

Question: How do you justify this and continue to believe?

How do you arrive this conclusion?

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worlock77

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#68 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]Vague? I thought it was pretty to the point.LJS9502_basic
Oh yes....very straight to the point is the word contradictions. Very specific that is.:|

What, you want him to write out a list of every contradtiction in the Bible? That could make for a very long post. The Bible is known to be riddled with contradictions, and even the most staunch of apoligists will acknowledge that.

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LJS9502_basic

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#69 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]Vague? I thought it was pretty to the point.worlock77

Oh yes....very straight to the point is the word contradictions. Very specific that is.:|

What, you want him to write out a list of every contradtiction in the Bible? That could make for a very long post. The Bible is known to be riddled with contradictions, and even the most staunch of apoligists will acknowledge that.

Considering I have no idea to what he's referring to....his post was vague.
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harashawn

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#70 harashawn
Member since 2008 • 27620 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That's a bit vague. What do you expect Christians to do with that?Stavrogin_

You want me to be more concise? No problem.

1. God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.

2. The bible is the word of god.

3. The bible has mistakes and contradictions.

Question: How do you justify this and continue to believe?

I think you need to share these contradictions so we can answer your question.
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iamsoangryatyou

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#71 iamsoangryatyou
Member since 2011 • 25 Posts
And as I just pointed out to you personal interpretation is not the answer when one ignores what's on the written page. What is difficult to grasp about that?LJS9502_basic
You mean like when you dismiss the bits you don't believe as metaphor and take the bits you do as fact?
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LJS9502_basic

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#73 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]And as I just pointed out to you personal interpretation is not the answer when one ignores what's on the written page. What is difficult to grasp about that?iamsoangryatyou
You mean like when you dismiss the bits you don't believe as metaphor and take the bits you do as fact?

Actually I don't decide. As with any literature one has to understand what one is reading. Otherwise one is misinterpreting the work.
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parkurtommo

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#74 parkurtommo
Member since 2009 • 28295 Posts

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

I've never beleived in fairy tales, they're just too... fake.

*waits for religious fanatic*

alexside1

What exactly are you trying to do here?

I don't know :|

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TheHighWind

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#75 TheHighWind
Member since 2003 • 5724 Posts

If I had a million ducats, oh if I had a million ducats. I'd buy you a saints remains and all those crazy lucky saint's BONES!!

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alexside1

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#76 alexside1
Member since 2006 • 4412 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Oh yes....very straight to the point is the word contradictions. Very specific that is.:|Colin1192

What, you want him to write out a list of every contradtiction in the Bible? That could make for a very long post. The Bible is known to be riddled with contradictions, and even the most staunch of apoligists will acknowledge that.

yes, that is exactly what he wants. because no one would do such a thing, so he makes it his demand.

then when no one will do that, he claims victory

Amazing that you appear in this thread all of the sudden and attempt to degraded the Christians in order to gloat.
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LJS9502_basic

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#77 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Oh yes....very straight to the point is the word contradictions. Very specific that is.:|Colin1192

What, you want him to write out a list of every contradtiction in the Bible? That could make for a very long post. The Bible is known to be riddled with contradictions, and even the most staunch of apoligists will acknowledge that.

yes, that is exactly what he wants. because no one would do such a thing, so he makes it his demand.

then when no one will do that, he claims victory

:lol: Victory? I didn't know this was a contest. And when the means are not justified by the end then what exactly does being accomplish other than an existence of little reason?
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worlock77

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#78 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Oh yes....very straight to the point is the word contradictions. Very specific that is.:|LJS9502_basic

What, you want him to write out a list of every contradtiction in the Bible? That could make for a very long post. The Bible is known to be riddled with contradictions, and even the most staunch of apoligists will acknowledge that.

Considering I have no idea to what he's referring to....his post was vague.

I'll give you one how about that? Take the book of Matthew: John knows full and well who and what Jesus is when he baptises him. Yet later on in the book of Matthew when John is in prison and hears of Jesus' works he seems to be unsure as to whether or not Jesus is the Messiah.

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LJS9502_basic

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#79 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

What, you want him to write out a list of every contradtiction in the Bible? That could make for a very long post. The Bible is known to be riddled with contradictions, and even the most staunch of apoligists will acknowledge that.

worlock77

Considering I have no idea to what he's referring to....his post was vague.

I'll give you one how about that? Take the book of Matthew: John knows full and well who and what Jesus is when he baptises him. Yet later on in the book of Matthew when John is in prison and hears of Jesus' works he seems to be unsure as to whether or not Jesus is the Messiah.

Scripture text is?
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alexside1

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#80 alexside1
Member since 2006 • 4412 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

What, you want him to write out a list of every contradtiction in the Bible? That could make for a very long post. The Bible is known to be riddled with contradictions, and even the most staunch of apoligists will acknowledge that.

worlock77

Considering I have no idea to what he's referring to....his post was vague.

I'll give you one how about that? Take the book of Matthew: John knows full and well who and what Jesus is when he baptises him. Yet later on in the book of Matthew when John is in prison and hears of Jesus' works he seems to be unsure as to whether or not Jesus is the Messiah.

Quotes please.
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Stavrogin_

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#81 Stavrogin_
Member since 2011 • 804 Posts

Considering I have no idea to what he's referring to....his post was vague. LJS9502_basic
Well then, that's your fault, not mine. Here is a list of bible contradictions Link 1 and Link 2. For example, the bible says the earth is flat. The earth is not flat, ergo god is wrong. How do you justify this?
How do you arrive this conclusionalexside1
I didn't. That's what christians believe.

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Colin1192

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#82 Colin1192
Member since 2008 • 6221 Posts

[QUOTE="Colin1192"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

What, you want him to write out a list of every contradtiction in the Bible? That could make for a very long post. The Bible is known to be riddled with contradictions, and even the most staunch of apoligists will acknowledge that.

alexside1

yes, that is exactly what he wants. because no one would do such a thing, so he makes it his demand.

then when no one will do that, he claims victory

Amazing that you appear in this thread all of the sudden and attempt to degraded the Christians in order to gloat.

what are you even talking about

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Seraphy-

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#83 Seraphy-
Member since 2011 • 1562 Posts
let's just say, I am so voting iamsoangryatyou for Best Debater OTcars 2011
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worlock77

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#84 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Considering I have no idea to what he's referring to....his post was vague. alexside1

I'll give you one how about that? Take the book of Matthew: John knows full and well who and what Jesus is when he baptises him. Yet later on in the book of Matthew when John is in prison and hears of Jesus' works he seems to be unsure as to whether or not Jesus is the Messiah.

Quotes please.

Try reading your holy book. Matthew chapters 3 and 11. As a Christian you should know this.

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LJS9502_basic

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#85 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Considering I have no idea to what he's referring to....his post was vague. Stavrogin_

Well then, that's your fault, not mine. Here is a list of bible contradictions For example, the bible says the earth is flat. The earth is not flat, ergo god is wrong. How do you justify this?
How do you arrive this conclusionalexside1
I didn't. That's what christians believe.

Link one has no text applied. Just someone's rants. As for link two....I'll take a look at a few...but considering the link is evil bible I'm not expecting honesty.

As for the earth......the bible was written by men....as far as the science of the day....it was in no way as advanced as today. And someday when science advances more.....people will laugh at what we believed.

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alexside1

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#86 alexside1
Member since 2006 • 4412 Posts

*link* I didn't. That's what christians believe.

Stavrogin_

Wait..... what..... EVILBIBLE? :lol: I don't trust that website anymore than the "answersingensis" website. Your under a false assumption that every christian believes in the same exact thing.

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alexside1

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#87 alexside1
Member since 2006 • 4412 Posts

[QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I'll give you one how about that? Take the book of Matthew: John knows full and well who and what Jesus is when he baptises him. Yet later on in the book of Matthew when John is in prison and hears of Jesus' works he seems to be unsure as to whether or not Jesus is the Messiah.

worlock77

Quotes please.

Try reading your holy book. Matthew chapters 3 and 11. As a Christian you should know this.

You claim it, thus the burden is on you. Not me.
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alexside1

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#88 alexside1
Member since 2006 • 4412 Posts

[QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="Colin1192"]

yes, that is exactly what he wants. because no one would do such a thing, so he makes it his demand.

then when no one will do that, he claims victory

Colin1192

Amazing that you appear in this thread all of the sudden and attempt to degraded the Christians in order to gloat.

what are you even talking about

Your so called "prediction" is questionable at best, that and fact your appear all of the sudden just to post that.Coincidence? I think not.

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worlock77

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#89 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="alexside1"] Quotes please.alexside1

Try reading your holy book. Matthew chapters 3 and 11. As a Christian you should know this.

You claim it, thus the burden is on you. Not me.

Yes and I just told you were to look.

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scorch-62

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#90 scorch-62
Member since 2006 • 29763 Posts
[QUOTE="Colin1192"][QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Oh yes....very straight to the point is the word contradictions. Very specific that is.:|

What, you want him to write out a list of every contradtiction in the Bible? That could make for a very long post. The Bible is known to be riddled with contradictions, and even the most staunch of apoligists will acknowledge that.

yes, that is exactly what he wants. because no one would do such a thing, so he makes it his demand. then when no one will do that, he claims victory

I haven't exactly bothered to check if this is every one, but it's a fairly nice list.
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LJS9502_basic

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#91 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts

[QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I'll give you one how about that? Take the book of Matthew: John knows full and well who and what Jesus is when he baptises him. Yet later on in the book of Matthew when John is in prison and hears of Jesus' works he seems to be unsure as to whether or not Jesus is the Messiah.

worlock77

Quotes please.

Try reading your holy book. Matthew chapters 3 and 11. As a Christian you should know this.

Chapter 11 is more along the lines that John was expecting a different approach. If you read what John said and balance that with what Jesus taught...you would see the messages are not the same. So John was asking a question....which was answered by OT scripture.
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Seraphy-

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#92 Seraphy-
Member since 2011 • 1562 Posts

And someday when science advances more.....people will laugh at what we believed.

LJS9502_basic
um not really we laugh at what people back then believed because they smashed rocks together until they came to the conclusion lead wine or whatever was good for your health (possibly because some divine spirit said so) that's not really how things works nowadays in the modern world
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alexside1

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#93 alexside1
Member since 2006 • 4412 Posts

[QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Try reading your holy book. Matthew chapters 3 and 11. As a Christian you should know this.

worlock77

You claim it, thus the burden is on you. Not me.

Yes and I just told you were to look.

And I'm asking you to quote it. I have no reason to believe you until you do so.
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hydralisk86

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#94 hydralisk86
Member since 2006 • 8847 Posts
[QUOTE="hydralisk86"][QUOTE="harashawn"]The evidence was passed through word of mouth. The desciples shared their stories and teachings, and those stories and teaching were passed on to others by those who heard them, then were eventually written down as the Gospels. There are also historical records which mention Jesus, so if he existed, it would be safe to assume they did as well.harashawn
The reason i posted this thread was because i wanted more information about the 12 disciples. I did read that Jesus was a real man, however, i found nothing in the 3 books i read about the apostles being real. I think I remember somewhere that James, the brother of Jesus, was killed, but beyond that, i do not know any evidence about Peter, Thomas, etc.

There is no real mention of Jesus having a brother; however, his cousin John the Baptist was killed. Saint Peter is believed to be the first Pope, he was crucified upside down in 64 AD. James was beheaded in the year 44. Philip was crucified in 54 AD. Thomas became a martyr in India in AD 72. Bartholomew/Nathaniel was reportedly skinned alive and beheaded on the Dead Sea. James, Jude and Andrew were also crucified.

But the info you typed, about the different ways the disciples were killed, isn't that based on tradition? i don't know much about that stuff, but are there real, historical documents about the ways they were killed?
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worlock77

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#95 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="alexside1"] You claim it, thus the burden is on you. Not me.alexside1

Yes and I just told you were to look.

And I'm asking you to quote it. I have no reason to believe you until you do so.

So a Christian who will not look in the Bible? Peachy.

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LJS9502_basic

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#96 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180240 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

And someday when science advances more.....people will laugh at what we believed.

Seraphy-
um not really we laugh at what people back then believed because they smashed rocks together until they came to the conclusion lead wine or whatever was good for your health (possibly because some divine spirit said so) that's not really how things works nowadays in the modern world

Science is but a snapshot of the information that man has at any given time. And that does change and get questioned. And you can't predict how rudimentary our living conditions are with what can occur in the future as technology and science advance. Doesn't seem logical to not allow for continued growth.
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TheHighWind

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#97 TheHighWind
Member since 2003 • 5724 Posts

Anyways what I was trying to say in my earlier post, is that the saints are real because they found thier scalytounges. (skeletons)

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Stavrogin_

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#98 Stavrogin_
Member since 2011 • 804 Posts

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]*link* I didn't. That's what christians believe.

alexside1

Wait..... what..... EVILBIBLE? :lol: I don't trust that website anymore than the "answersingensis" website. Your under a false assumption that every christian believes in the same exact thing.

You people dazzle me. So what if the link is named evilbible, you can open your bible and check for yourself if the contradiction mentioned is there rather than discrediting it solely on domain name. But of course, that's the easier way isn't it?
the bible was written by men....LJS9502_basic
But the bible is the word of god, at least that's what christians believe. Are you a christian or an atheist?
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alexside1

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#99 alexside1
Member since 2006 • 4412 Posts

[QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Yes and I just told you were to look.

worlock77

And I'm asking you to quote it. I have no reason to believe you until you do so.

So a Christian who will not look in the Bible? Peachy.

Peachy? If someone claim that someone said x, and my skepticism is ringing I would have ask he/she to provide quotes from reliable sources. This is no different. Now provide it or I consider our discussion to be over.
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Cataclism

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#100 Cataclism
Member since 2007 • 1537 Posts

Good, good. I was needing my weekly fix of religion threads.