I Need Help From Christian Believers

[QUOTE="Gibsonsg527"]

Correct me if Im wrong but are you saying that people who go around preaching their religion is harming you? I think that is very annoying too but they are not harming you in anyway. Just shut the door on them or say no. It is your choice to accept it or not.

HoolaHoopMan

I'd say people can and DO harm others in some cases from preaching ridiculous things; I give you Peter Popoff. Just a taste of his BS.

And? It dosen't make you better than they are. If that were the case.

No it doesn't, that is simply the result of the people decision. If that were true than we should see a LOT more vilolance, and anti-science if that were the case.

alexside1

[QUOTE="Enid_Green"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] It's really very simple; You can sit at home begging an invisible man and sustaining yourself off false hope or you can be less weak minded and face the reality and overcome it.

And my original post which you quoted said urging others to pray is wrong. :| And it is.

Ninja-Hippo

That doesn't make any sense. How does spending 10 minutes of alone time thinking about the afterlife even closely equate to avoiding other people and not coming to terms with loss?

And you still haven't really answered the question. If a man wants to have a 10 minute conversation with god because he is troubled, who exactly is "urging" him to do so?

I think you should re-read your rebuttals to my comments then.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

[QUOTE="Gibsonsg527"]

Correct me if Im wrong but are you saying that people who go around preaching their religion is harming you? I think that is very annoying too but they are not harming you in anyway. Just shut the door on them or say no. It is your choice to accept it or not.

Gibsonsg527

I'd say people can and DO harm others in some cases from preaching ridiculous things; I give you Peter Popoff. Just a taste of his BS.

I think you should re-read your rebuttals to my comments then.

Enid_Green

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Gibsonsg527"]

Correct me if Im wrong but are you saying that people who go around preaching their religion is harming you? I think that is very annoying too but they are not harming you in anyway. Just shut the door on them or say no. It is your choice to accept it or not.

alexside1

If this were not Christainity but some small sect group saying this, people would laugh at them and call them illogical.. A clear ploy of fearmongering to get people to convert.. Its quite simple really.. In the dark ages Christianity gave hope in a world that was crap.. When times became better, Christainity became the fearmongering tool to scare people into practicing due to threat of endless damnition.. This isn't suggesting Christianity is wrong (or right), but to focus specifically on this specific thing and not the good virtues that can be practiced by any one regardless of belief that the book sometimes preaches.. Is baffling. This is of course looking at the more extreme followers like the Evangelical movement.

...AND THE LORD DOTH SAYITH..."let the floodgates of OT be opened!" - gamespoticus 13:37

Just become an atheist, that way you can make up your own mind on such issues.PernicioEnigma

^

This.

Stop letting a book written by a bunch of sheepherders who ate shrooms control you.

Just become an atheist, that way you can make up your own mind on such issues.PernicioEnigma

Might want to be specific. Different demoninations have different views on homosexuality.

[QUOTE="PernicioEnigma"]Just become an atheist, that way you can make up your own mind on such issues.jak275

How so, when to the religious, religion dictates morality? When the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin and you've been taught to follow the Bible, it makes it far more difficult than if one was an atheist.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

From my understanding of Jesus, there really isn't an UNFORGIVABLE sin. It's the part about "go forward and sin no more." That is the hard part I would imagine.

th3warr1or

LOL the unforgivable sin is not being gay:lol: its a hardening of your heart in the face of undeniable evidence. Jesus spoke those words to the tachers of the law after they saw him perform miracle upon miracle but still refused to acknowledge him. Its not an actually thing you do

THe only unforgiveable sin is disobeying your parents. If you have done this you may as well give up on it all.

Bravo TC, I love it.

If God was fair we'd all burn because that is exactly what justice would dictate. It is by his grace and mercy that any single person can find salvation. Also, this reality you speak of should break the heart of every Christian. It is because of this reality that we do evangelism in the first place. This reality is why I have friends studying to become missionaries and I myself am studying to become a pastor.mindstorm

Yah it's perfectly reasonable for blaming the thing you made....

God made us the way we are and blames us for how he made us.

He is not merciful but a raving madman who loves seeing others burn, otherwise he would have made us in the way he wanted.

Serial killers who feel no guilt for killing and enjoy it do this because of their genetic makeup and abnormalities within the temporal lobe.

God made them that way. God made you with all the urges he hates and he blames you for his creation.

That does not sound like a reasonable god.

If there really is a god and I ever met him I would flip him the bird because he is a douche.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]If God was fair we'd all burn because that is exactly what justice would dictate. It is by his grace and mercy that any single person can find salvation. Also, this reality you speak of should break the heart of every Christian. It is because of this reality that we do evangelism in the first place. This reality is why I have friends studying to become missionaries and I myself am studying to become a pastor.Hakkai007

Yah it's perfectly reasonable for blaming the thing you made....

God made us the way we are and blames us for how he made us.

He is not merciful but a raving madman who loves seeing others burn, otherwise he would have made us in the way he wanted.

Serial killers who feel no guilt for killing and enjoy it do this because of their genetic makeup and abnormalities within the temporal lobe.

God made them that way. God made you with all the urges he hates and he blames you for his creation.

That does not sound like a reasonable god.

If there really is a god and I ever met him I would flip him the bird because he is a douche.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]If God was fair we'd all burn because that is exactly what justice would dictate. It is by his grace and mercy that any single person can find salvation. Also, this reality you speak of should break the heart of every Christian. It is because of this reality that we do evangelism in the first place. This reality is why I have friends studying to become missionaries and I myself am studying to become a pastor.Hakkai007

Yah it's perfectly reasonable for blaming the thing you made....

God made us the way we are and blames us for how he made us.

He is not merciful but a raving madman who loves seeing others burn, otherwise he would have made us in the way he wanted.

Serial killers who feel no guilt for killing and enjoy it do this because of their genetic makeup and abnormalities within the temporal lobe.

God made them that way. God made you with all the urges he hates and he blames you for his creation.

That does not sound like a reasonable god.

If there really is a god and I ever met him I would flip him the bird because he is a douche.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]If God was fair we'd all burn because that is exactly what justice would dictate. It is by his grace and mercy that any single person can find salvation. Also, this reality you speak of should break the heart of every Christian. It is because of this reality that we do evangelism in the first place. This reality is why I have friends studying to become missionaries and I myself am studying to become a pastor.Hakkai007

Yah it's perfectly reasonable for blaming the thing you made....

God made us the way we are and blames us for how he made us.

He is not merciful but a raving madman who loves seeing others burn, otherwise he would have made us in the way he wanted.

Serial killers who feel no guilt for killing and enjoy it do this because of their genetic makeup and abnormalities within the temporal lobe.

God made them that way. God made you with all the urges he hates and he blames you for his creation.

That does not sound like a reasonable god.

If there really is a god and I ever met him I would flip him the bird because he is a douche.

I agree that this perception of God is a douche.

Then we'd be robots. Do you want to have no say in your life?

LJS9502_basic

We are like robots.

What we do is influenced by our genetics and chemical imbalances plus a mix of experiences.

If there is a god he should not blame humans for being how he created them.

If anything he is to blame and should be the one burning.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Then we'd be robots. Do you want to have no say in your life?

Hakkai007

We are like robots.

What we do is influenced by are genetics and chemical imbalances plus a mix of experiences.

If there is a god he should not blame humans for being how he created them.

If anything he is to blame and should be the one burning.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Then we'd be robots. Do you want to have no say in your life?

Hakkai007

We are like robots.

What we do is influenced by our genetics and chemical imbalances plus a mix of experiences.

If there is a god he should not blame humans for being how he created them.

If anything he is to blame and should be the one burning.

Ummm - No. We are nothing like robots. So then you want to put the blame on something else for any bad decision you make is what I'm getting from reading this. This reminds me of that Family Circus cartoon in the papers. Anyone remember the 'Not Me' ghost that always ran around? If the kids did something bad and their Mom asked who did, they would always reply "Not Me!"

I think it was Family Circus anyway.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but honeslty, can any person really say for sure who can or can not be saved? I'm relatively new to the Roman Catholic Church (going through RCIA program currently). I read the scriptures, ask questions of those who are more studied in theology, and listen closelyto my Pastors homilies. However, at the end of the day, the only conclusion I can come to is my own.

As far as some of what is being said here about Religion is a little naive and said possibly just to be insulting to those who believe. (I use the word "possibly" because I can't possibly know what motivates anyone but myself). That being said, in these posts I have noticed a lot of references to things similar to "brainwashing" and that praying is a waste of time and that religious people spend most of their time trying to convert others. Are there certain self-proclaimed "churches" that are incredibly insensitive and aggressive? Absolutely. But it has been my experience that those are the exceptions and not the general rule.

Many people pray in many different ways and for many different reasons. Many doctors acknowledge that a patient's attitude can make a remarkable difference in their healing or battling of a disease. If someone prays, and this gives them strength and helps to keep their spirits up, is this really a waste of time?

Personally, I believe in God and pray at times. Iam fully awarethat I can not "prove" there is a God, nor is it my place to try. If someone asks me about my fait, I'll gladly talk to them about it. However, I do not go out andtry to convince people to join my (or any other church). Further, when I do charitable work, it is not only for fellowCatholics. It is for anyone.When I attempt to help someone, I don't first ask any questions about their faith, nordo I tell them to be faithful because they recieved assistance.

A person's relationship with God (or lack thereof) is a very personal and private one. Ourown conclusions should be enough to sustain us and it is my personal belief that little is gained by mocking anyoneelse forwhat they believe. Ater all, nobody can claim that they have ALL the answers and can prove one way or another, the existance of God.

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Then we'd be robots. Do you want to have no say in your life?

We are like robots.

What we do is influenced by our genetics and chemical imbalances plus a mix of experiences.

If there is a god he should not blame humans for being how he created them.

If anything he is to blame and should be the one burning.

Ummm - No. We are nothing like robots. So then you want to put the blame on something else for any bad decision you make is what I'm getting from reading this. This reminds me of that Family Circus cartoon in the papers. Anyone remember the 'Not Me' ghost that always ran around? If the kids did something bad and their Mom asked who did, they would always reply "Not Me!"

I think it was Family Circus anyway.

So then you have absolutely no control whatsoever over the choices you make? Is your choice to go with Pepsi or Coke a mere chemical and genetic reaction? Our choices certainly do sway a certain direction at times due to our genes, social situations, and very nature, but we are still the ones who are responsible for our actions because we are the ones who inevitably make those choices.mindstorm

We make our own choices but when choose pespi or coke we would choose based on our genetics and chemical imbalances.

Things like the taste or price.

Genetics influences our behaviors in things like spending and taste.

We do make those choices but they are based on who we are.

If you hated the taste of Pespi you probably wouldn't drink it without a good reason.

Same goes for choosing other products. If you are a frugal person you will usually go for the cheaper stuff.

Yes we are responsible for what we do because there are consequences to our actions just like if you push something it reacts.

But a machine is also responsible for it's actions in that there will be consequences for how the machine behaves.

The more you break down what makes a human tick the more it resembles a machine.

They are very similar.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]So then you have absolutely no control whatsoever over the choices you make? Is your choice to go with Pepsi or Coke a mere chemical and genetic reaction? Our choices certainly do sway a certain direction at times due to our genes, social situations, and very nature, but we are still the ones who are responsible for our actions because we are the ones who inevitably make those choices.Hakkai007

We make our own choices but when choose pespi or coke we would choose based on our genetics and chemical imbalances.

Things like the taste or price.

Genetics influences our behaviors in things like spending and taste.

We do make those choices but they are based on who we are.

If you hated the taste of Pespi you probably wouldn't drink it without a good reason.

Same goes for choosing other products. If you are a frugal person you will usually go for the cheaper stuff.

Yes we are responsible for what we do because there are consequences to our actions just like if you push something it reacts.

But a machine is also responsible for it's actions in that there will be consequences for how the machine behaves.

The more you break down what makes a human tick the more it resembles a machine.

They are very similar.

My very point is that we are indeed influenced by those things as you say. However, being influenced by these things does not mean our choices are dictated by them. Alcoholism runs in my family, does this mean I am obligated by my genes to also become an alcoholic? I might be influenced by such things but they do not dictate my actions.mindstorm

It can depending on your genetics.

Maybe you have another genetic trait which is more dominant than the acoholism one.

Maybe it's how you were raised and it had a different reaction.

Let me use an extreme example so the point is more clear.

Have you ever known someone before and after they had dementia.

If you study them you will notice their behavior is drastically different from before and after.

Genetic traits are still present so they may keep the same personal tastes but their decisions are different.

They will make up stories or forget what time they are in.

They can make up fake people who they swear are real as if they met them a few hours ago.

My grandmother has dementia.

She thinks my mother is sometimes her sister. She sometimes thinks her parents are still alive.

She sometimes thinks my Mom's husband is her husband.

She sometimes thinks she still has her own house and that she has two kids.

She is totally different compared to before she had dementia.