I refuse to worship such a violent god.

If you dont want to worship a violent god, then dont! No need to make a topic about itstevendiep_100

The same logic could apply to your post in this thread.

[QUOTE="stewiegriffin78"][QUOTE="-MuadDib-"][QUOTE="stewiegriffin78"]

You can't say He doesn't exist. To do so, you would have to know everything at all times, which would make you a god. So you can NEVER disprove God.

Theempire30

He's not trying to disprove God, he's showing that it's improbable.

Earlier he said God diesn't exist, and never has. Moving on. And I believe our evolving from pond scum improbable.

Makes more sense then 6 Billion people came from only two people in 8 thousand years. Plus is not nearly as violent as Christianity nor does it demand so much time from people...

WHAT DOES VIOLENCE HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? Seriously, violence does not affect reproduction. And the Bible says that Adam and Eve were only the first two people, there coud've been more. And yes, there were only eight after the flood, but still, if each of them had three kids, and so on, it could potentially works. But here's the main deal-we will NEVER agree on this. Therefore, I believe we should stop debating and agree to disagree. We could spend the next five or six hours arguing. I respect your opinion. Disagree with it? Yes. But that doesn't mean I'm right, nor does it mean you're right. Goodnight.

[QUOTE="Theempire30"][QUOTE="stewiegriffin78"][QUOTE="-MuadDib-"][QUOTE="stewiegriffin78"]

You can't say He doesn't exist. To do so, you would have to know everything at all times, which would make you a god. So you can NEVER disprove God.

stewiegriffin78

He's not trying to disprove God, he's showing that it's improbable.

Earlier he said God diesn't exist, and never has. Moving on. And I believe our evolving from pond scum improbable.

Makes more sense then 6 Billion people came from only two people in 8 thousand years. Plus is not nearly as violent as Christianity nor does it demand so much time from people...

WHAT DOES VIOLENCE HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? Seriously, violence does not affect reproduction. And the Bible says that Adam and Eve were only the first two people, there coud've been more. And yes, there were only eight after the flood, but still, if each of them had three kids, and so on, it could potentially works. But here's the main deal-we will NEVER agree on this. Therefore, I believe we should stop debating and agree to disagree. We could spend the next five or six hours arguing. I respect your opinion. Disagree with it? Yes. But that doesn't mean I'm right, nor does it mean you're right. Goodnight.

Should we all keep our beliefs to ourselves?

Is it wrong to question christianity?

The way I see it...we'll find out when we die.Shadow_Spinner

maybe not.

Anyway, the priests and cursing parents ones ( and others) are indeed harsh, but who says it was the word of God? The person who wrote it could have been a little extremist. Stoning to death was the norm back then.

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19)

That means that you will go to hell, not be killed.

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

He did this to free his people (the Jews), who were the Pharoahs slaves. He and Moses gave the Pharaoh MANY warnings but they did not listen. Killing all the first borns worked, as the Pharaohs son was killed. He let the Jews go, and then changed his mind and tried to get them back. Moses parted the Red Sea, the Jews crossed and the the sea slallowed up the Egyptians that were chasing them, including the Pharaoh.

[QUOTE="Theempire30"][QUOTE="stewiegriffin78"][QUOTE="Theempire30"][QUOTE="stewiegriffin78"][QUOTE="Theempire30"][QUOTE="sPyDrHeIr"]

If there are atheists here hating God, then why are you acknowledging Him? I say this loosely from a C.S. Lewis, Atheists show anger to God though in their beliefs He does not even exist. Hating God gives Him existance, the atheists here are totally contradicting their beliefs. Now I'm not the most serious christian in the world, i dont dictate my life based on the Bible, but i feel that the people telling other Christians to "wake up" or "realize that He does not exist" are much more attacking our beliefs rather than sharing their view on christianity. There's no need to be so ignorant. Just cause some believe that He will appear yet hasn't for over 2000 years doesnt mean that you can mock them and say that He won't because so much time has passed.

If you don't wanna believe in God, fine i respect that but can't YOU respect the fact thatsome people think God will appear?

stewiegriffin78

I'll believe in him when I see him, or when Christians start to make sense.

You can't see Him because, honestly, you aren't looking. He's everywhere. Just taking a glance outside is enough to convince that there's a designer somewhere. And some of us Christians make sense. You don't make much sense to me because you DON'T believe. So it's kind of a paradox.

His nowhere and never was. It's been 2000 years. Anyone back then can claim they were the son of god and do few tricks and people well make it sound like he was a supernatural being. Just think how many times some one added/took out of the Bible and made they way they wanted for political power.

You can't say He doesn't exist. To do so, you would have to know everything at all times, which would make you a god. So you can NEVER disprove God. And the facts are the same, it's just the way you look at them. And I'd like examples (as well as sources) of documented accounts of manipulation of the Word. And I don't mean different translations.

...What? How does free will disprove God? I don't even get that...

Well, for god to make free will, it would of already had to exist. He cant create something that has already been in existence since he was.

just out of curiosity, all the people here blaming and hating God, what do you believe in? or are you guys atheists?sPyDrHeIr

how can anyone hate gods when they don't exist?

Those quotes are :|

New Testament > Old Testament

Jesus owns the bible.

[QUOTE="stewiegriffin78"][QUOTE="Theempire30"][QUOTE="stewiegriffin78"][QUOTE="-MuadDib-"][QUOTE="stewiegriffin78"]

You can't say He doesn't exist. To do so, you would have to know everything at all times, which would make you a god. So you can NEVER disprove God.

diz360

He's not trying to disprove God, he's showing that it's improbable.

Earlier he said God diesn't exist, and never has. Moving on. And I believe our evolving from pond scum improbable.

Makes more sense then 6 Billion people came from only two people in 8 thousand years. Plus is not nearly as violent as Christianity nor does it demand so much time from people...

WHAT DOES VIOLENCE HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? Seriously, violence does not affect reproduction. And the Bible says that Adam and Eve were only the first two people, there coud've been more. And yes, there were only eight after the flood, but still, if each of them had three kids, and so on, it could potentially works. But here's the main deal-we will NEVER agree on this. Therefore, I believe we should stop debating and agree to disagree. We could spend the next five or six hours arguing. I respect your opinion. Disagree with it? Yes. But that doesn't mean I'm right, nor does it mean you're right. Goodnight.

Should we all keep our beliefs to ourselves?

Is it wrong to question christianity?

Of course it isn't. I question my faith, toher faiths, everything. However, we also need to learn to draw the line. But that's another discussion, for another time. I'm really tired right now, and debating always leaves me even more exhausted than when I started (though I DO love it).

Okay first of all, this was the old testament. God was much more vengeful then, but after that he gave us FREE WILL, and sacrificed his only son so that we can come to heaven and get eternal life. I think that pretty much makes up for it.

Anyway, the priests and cursing parents ones ( and others) are indeed harsh, but who says it was the word of God? The person who wrote it could have been a little extremist. Stoning to death was the norm back then.

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19)

That means that you will go to hell, not be killed.

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

He did this to free his people (the Jews), who were the Pharoahs slaves. He and Moses gave the Pharaoh MANY warnings but they did not listen. Killing all the first borns worked, as the Pharaohs son was killed. He let the Jews go, and then changed his mind and tried to get them back. Moses parted the Red Sea, the Jews crossed and the the sea slallowed up the Egyptians that were chasing them, including the Pharaoh.

Taegukki

Thanks for your interpretation. Other theists would interpret the same passages differently.

That account has been denied by historical and archaelogical evidence. It's just your interpreation from a book with origins in multiple authorship, miriad transcriptions and translations, additions, deletions and distortions. The source texts are available for your scrutiny!

Many passages in the new testement reflect on the teachings of the old testement and give those violent and vindictive views support.

If you are happy to believe this document without sufficient research, then go ahead.

I'd prefer to base my reasoning on something more rational.

Okay first of all, this was the old testament. God was much more vengeful then, but after that he gave us FREE WILL, and sacrificed his only son so that we can come to heaven and get eternal life. I think that pretty much makes up for it.

Anyway, the priests and cursing parents ones ( and others) are indeed harsh, but who says it was the word of God? The person who wrote it could have been a little extremist. Stoning to death was the norm back then.

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19)

That means that you will go to hell, not be killed.

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

He did this to free his people (the Jews), who were the Pharoahs slaves. He and Moses gave the Pharaoh MANY warnings but they did not listen. Killing all the first borns worked, as the Pharaohs son was killed. He let the Jews go, and then changed his mind and tried to get them back. Moses parted the Red Sea, the Jews crossed and the the sea slallowed up the Egyptians that were chasing them, including the Pharaoh.

Taegukki

And yes, there were only eight after the flood, but still, if each of them had three kids, and so on, it could potentially works.
stewiegriffin78

Of course it isn't. I question my faith, toher faiths, everything. However, we also need to learn to draw the line. But that's another discussion, for another time. I'm really tired right now, and debating always leaves me even more exhausted than when I started (though I DO love it).

stewiegriffin78

This ending happens all too often. Already in this thread, theists have to go away, or disappear without revealing their reasoning. Its a shame, but also all too predictable.

...What? How does free will disprove God? I don't even get that...

stewiegriffin78

[QUOTE="stewiegriffin78"]

...What? How does free will disprove God? I don't even get that...

-MuadDib-

You pick up a gun and kill 12 people. You choose to do that and no spiritual force stopped you from doing that. Its free will because you and only you pushed yourself to do it.

[QUOTE="Theempire30"][

If he did create it all, then he is to blame. If he dint create Satan then Satan has always been, making him also God...

Silver_Dragon17

Did it ever cross your mind that Satan is NOT the cause of all the bad in the world?

that's true, according to the bible. the bible clearly identifies the source of evil in the world...

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."Isaiah 45:7

so if you believe the bible, you can stop wondering where evil comes from.

I tried ignoring this as long as possible but i gave in to your complete and utter *********

Seriously, you are so bad.

[QUOTE="-MuadDib-"][QUOTE="stewiegriffin78"]

...What? How does free will disprove God? I don't even get that...

Theempire30

You pick up a gun and kill 12 people. You choose to do that and no spiritual force stopped you from doing that. Its free will because you and only you pushed yourself to do it.

How do you know that the evil thoughts weren't implanted into their brain by God or the Devil? :o

Maybe you don't have free will at all, only that God wants it to seem like you do so he can't be blamed for evil :o

All hypotheticals.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Theempire30"][

Sounds like his playing favorites to me.

Theempire30

Would you prefer He sent children to Hell?>_>

If so, then I don't think it's God who's evil here.

Nope, I'd prefer it if he sent us all to heaven...and hadn't even made a hell.

If some guy killed and raped your mother and sister, would you like to see him enjoying the pleasures of heaven? Or burning becuase of his sins in hell?
fanboy-buster

[QUOTE="Theempire30"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Theempire30"][

Sounds like his playing favorites to me.

fanboy-buster

Would you prefer He sent children to Hell?>_>

If so, then I don't think it's God who's evil here.

Nope, I'd prefer it if he sent us all to heaven...and hadn't even made a hell.

if someone offered you retribution, would you prefer it be fantasy or real?

[QUOTE="Theempire30"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Theempire30"][

Sounds like his playing favorites to me.

fanboy-buster

Would you prefer He sent children to Hell?>_>

If so, then I don't think it's God who's evil here.

Nope, I'd prefer it if he sent us all to heaven...and hadn't even made a hell.

Doesn't matter, if he is saved before all this he would still go to heaven. To Christians, once your saved you cant be unsaved. Plus if we all went to Heaven he wouldn't know he did that and I wouldn't either we would be different being incapable of hating and remembering pain.

[QUOTE="Theempire30"][QUOTE="sPyDrHeIr"]

If there are atheists here hating God, then why are you acknowledging Him? I say this loosely from a C.S. Lewis, Atheists show anger to God though in their beliefs He does not even exist. Hating God gives Him existance, the atheists here are totally contradicting their beliefs. Now I'm not the most serious christian in the world, i dont dictate my life based on the Bible, but i feel that the people telling other Christians to "wake up" or "realize that He does not exist" are much more attacking our beliefs rather than sharing their view on christianity. There's no need to be so ignorant. Just cause some believe that He will appear yet hasn't for over 2000 years doesnt mean that you can mock them and say that He won't because so much time has passed.

If you don't wanna believe in God, fine i respect that but can't YOU respect the fact thatsome people think God will appear?

stewiegriffin78

I'll believe in him when I see him, or when Christians start to make sense.

You can't see Him because, honestly, you aren't looking. He's everywhere. Just taking a glance outside is enough to convince that there's a designer somewhere. And some of us Christians make sense. You don't make much sense to me because you DON'T believe. So it's kind of a paradox.

Fail, your begging the question.. You claim that life is advanced thus there is a creator.. You have given none such premise on how our enviroment is perfect, unique or any signs it was made by a creator.. Maybe you should, look up logical reasoning before argueing.

I been doing some Bible reading these past days and have stumble upon some very dark things. Some are just disturbing.

The following are people that God himself orders to kill.

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 )

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all - old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

OK, so some of these are things you shouldn't do because well its "wrong" I get that, but what God is this that kills for such little things though? Why embrace into a religion full of blood and with sons sleeping with their mothers, brothers killing each other for absolutely nothing, and a god that orders thousands to go into war and burn and destroy everything in their paths.

Theempire30

thats all old testiment dude, that was be4 jesus, things were different, king david was a very godly man yet he killd thousands of people, thats why he couldnt build the tempe cuz of the blood on his hands. if u read the new testiment, its not violent

thats all old testiment dude, that was be4 jesus, things were different, king david was a very godly man yet he killd thousands of people, thats why he couldnt build the tempe cuz of the blood on his hands. if u read the new testiment, its not violent

kyle_1865

so do you believe that the old testament is false? or is it a different god you worship?

BTW to TC, roughly 2k years ago everyone was quite violent, and we still are, it's human nature.

The bible was written by a few people, not by god or jesus, so....

This is coming from a non religious person...

Well then... don't worship him I guess... Noone on GS is trying to force you.... :|Def_Jef88

[QUOTE="kyle_1865"]

thats all old testiment dude, that was be4 jesus, things were different, king david was a very godly man yet he killd thousands of people, thats why he couldnt build the tempe cuz of the blood on his hands. if u read the new testiment, its not violent

giton

so do you believe that the old testament is false? or is it a different god you worship?

no, its just that those were different times, israel had alot of enemies, old testiment is basically the story of how the israelites got out of slavery and became a society.i dunno, if u dont believe any of it, then theres no point arguing cuz its hard 2 explain without getting religous

the bible also encourages and promotes rascism. :| Now we see what the South has been getting at all these yearshamstergeddon

proof?

[QUOTE="giton"][QUOTE="kyle_1865"]

thats all old testiment dude, that was be4 jesus, things were different, king david was a very godly man yet he killd thousands of people, thats why he couldnt build the tempe cuz of the blood on his hands. if u read the new testiment, its not violent

kyle_1865

so do you believe that the old testament is false? or is it a different god you worship?

no, its just that those were different times, israel had alot of enemies, old testiment is basically the story of how the israelites got out of slavery and became a society.i dunno, if u dont believe any of it, then theres no point arguing cuz its hard 2 explain without getting religous

the point is that those quotes from the bible are all god's directives. did a good, kind, and loving god of the new testament depose the old despicable mudering hateful war-mongering god of the old testament? i mean, it's supposedly the same god, right?

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"]the bible also encourages and promotes rascism. :| Now we see what the South has been getting at all these yearskyle_1865

proof?

[QUOTE="kyle_1865"]

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"]the bible also encourages and promotes rascism. :| Now we see what the South has been getting at all these yearshamstergeddon

proof?

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"]the bible also encourages and promotes rascism. :| Now we see what the South has been getting at all these yearskyle_1865

proof?

Nice try though.

[spoiler] not really [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="kyle_1865"][QUOTE="giton"][QUOTE="kyle_1865"]

thats all old testiment dude, that was be4 jesus, things were different, king david was a very godly man yet he killd thousands of people, thats why he couldnt build the tempe cuz of the blood on his hands. if u read the new testiment, its not violent

giton

so do you believe that the old testament is false? or is it a different god you worship?

no, its just that those were different times, israel had alot of enemies, old testiment is basically the story of how the israelites got out of slavery and became a society.i dunno, if u dont believe any of it, then theres no point arguing cuz its hard 2 explain without getting religous

the point is that those quotes from the bible are all god's directives. did a good, kind, and loving god of the new testament depose the old despicable mudering hateful war-mongering god of the old testament? i mean, it's supposedly the same god, right?

alot of those quotes are from under the old testiment law, likw god my be loving but he had a wrathful side, the problem back then with the israelites was that if u gave em an inch, theyd take a mile, if they let there enemies live, then theyd usually start intermarrying and bringing in there pagan customs(sacrifcing children into fire, sodomy, beastiality) into there own society, they were stupid people. god basically had 2 lay down the hammer to prevent the bad apples from corrupting the whole stupid bunch. really if u read the thing, i dont know why they were the chosen people, they always screwd up. theres many sides 2 god and i guess they gave the patience part a good workout

^^^^^ Here we go! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham%2C_son_of_Noah
read it and weep!

I did a fraking extended essay about this over the summer :( I think I would know this stuffhamstergeddon

I found nothing saying that Noah cursed Ham and all of his descendants to be black.

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"]^^^^^ Here we go! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham%2C_son_of_Noah
read it and weep!

I did a fraking extended essay about this over the summer :( I think I would know this stuffEzgam3r

I found nothing saying that Noah cursed Ham and all of his descendants to be black.

[QUOTE="Ezgam3r"]

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"]^^^^^ Here we go! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham%2C_son_of_Noah
read it and weep!

I did a fraking extended essay about this over the summer :( I think I would know this stuffhamstergeddon

I found nothing saying that Noah cursed Ham and all of his descendants to be black.

look at my edit. I believe that will do it (finally)
The Curse Of Ham has been widely used to justify the enslavement of the African people. Even if this was not the Bible's intention, it is used noneoftheless.

So because people twist the words and the meanings to fit thier agenda means that the Bible is to blame? :?

I view it two ways. For one, God has the right to do what he wants since he is the creator. He gives life, but he can also take it away. On the other hand, if God commands us not to kill (murder) shouldn't he not do the same? Just because somebody doesn't do something you want them to do doesn't give you the right to kill them. That's our morals ; You would thing God would have even better morals.

The bible teaches that God is a God of love, and he is not partial and he views every individual life as precious. That sounds great, but does he justify that by actions, past present and future? No, it seems like he only views people that do everything he says as precious.

       "God says the Africans are the Tribes of Ham.Ham was the worst of Noah's three boys: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.Everybody comes down on their family tree from just those three, because God made a big flood and drowneded out all the sinners.But Shem, ham and Japheth got on the boat so they were A-okay.

Ham was the youngest one, like me, and he was bad.Sometimes I am bad, too.After they all got off the ark and let all the animals go is when it happened.Ham found his father Noah laying around pig-naked drunk one day he thought that was funny as all get-out.The other two covered Noah up but Ham busted his britches laughing.When Noah woke up he got to hear the whole story from the tattletale brothers.So Noah cursed all ham's children to be slaves for ever and ever.That's how come them to turn out dark."

this is written from the perspective of a 5 year old girl in the 50's.  Imagine this same story being told to every white child as soon as they are old enough to comprehend such a thing.  No wonder the blacks had so much trouble during the Civil Rights movement... 

Here, taken from "The Poisonwood Bible" By Barbara Kingsolver

"God says the Africans are the Tribes of Ham.Ham was the worst of Noah's three boys: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.Everybody comes down on their family tree from just those three, because God made a big flood and drowneded out all the sinners.But Shem, ham and Japheth got on the boat so they were A-okay.

Ham was the youngest one, like me, and he was bad.Sometimes I am bad, too.After they all got off the ark and let all the animals go is when it happened.Ham found his father Noah laying around pig-naked drunk one day he thought that was funny as all get-out.The other two covered Noah up but Ham busted his britches laughing.When Noah woke up he got to hear the whole story from the tattletale brothers.So Noah cursed all ham's children to be slaves for ever and ever.That's how come them to turn out dark."

this is written from the perspective of a 5 year old girl in the 50's. Imagine this same story being told to every white child as soon as they are old enough to comprehend such a thing. No wonder the blacks had so much trouble during the Civil Rights movement...

hamstergeddon