I think I'm becoming an atheist. . .

All right, I've been going through some very hard times lately, and it's got me to thinking.

I know that God is supposed to be good, and have a wonderful plan for everything. But I just cannot see any kind of usefulness in my hardships. I can't see how these times will improve my life in any substantial way. It feels like everything is going wrong, and nothing is going to ever become right again. And that has me wondering about the true omnibenevolence of God and His "great plan."

I know that these feelings will eventually pass. But what of God? Does God honestly not care enough? But the God of Christianity is one that is always loving and caring, even in hard times. Does God care for me? If not, then God as defined by Christianity cannot and does not exist. And it truly seems like God does not care about me right now. I don't know. If God does exist, then I wouldn't be the gifted man to know His mind. But I wish God would just grant me a feeling, a sign, some small thing or thought that would re-warm my faith--is that too much for me to ask?

In addition to these feelings of hardship, my own personal relationship with God has gotten cold and meaningless. I find myself praying with repeated and bland words to my wall, with no expectation of an answer or a feeling of warmth, but I do it anyway. Is this devotion, or am I just acting on what has become a habit? An empty relationship with a deity might as well be no relationship at all. If God exists, He wants my full devotion, and I should want Him to have it, because He would rightly deserve it. But why do I not have this feeling anymore? Maybe I've already made the decision in my mind and heart, and I'm not quite ready to consciously accept it. I just don't know. . .

I've been looking at more in-depth arguments for atheism lately, and I feel that they have more weight now than I used to. One that I particularly found moving is one centered on morality: Does God command something because it is moral, or is something moral because God commands it? If something is moral because God commands it, then morality is arbitrary and meaningless--if God commands something because it is moral, then morality is outside of God's control, which is contradictory to the God of Christianity, and so Christianity is false. Either way, it seems that Christianity cannot answer this question, at least as far as I can find.

I've also come across the terribly mind-numbing concept of infinite regress. Either the universe is eternal or God has a creator. Eternity is against logic, and so God, if He exists, needs a creator of His own. But then what? Not only am I faced with an infinite line of Creators, but the God I worship is limited and non-infinite. He may even be dead, with a new one that has replaced Him. It just seems easier to believe that the universe can somehow sustain itself, rather than there being an infinite line of gods that came before.

And then there's the concept of evidence. Why has God not revealed Himself to more people? If He does exist, then why is the minority of the creations He supposedly loves going to be with Him forever, rather than the majority? Just because they didn't see something that, for God, would be an easy feat.

My brain is hurting, my heart is breaking, my worldview is falling apart, and my Bible is sitting on a shelf gathering dust as I look desperately for an answer that may not even be there. But what can I do? I can't just sit tight as everything I believe is slowly destroyed. So I have come here, where I can hopefully get some answers from theists and atheists alike. But as I said before, I may have already made the decision in my heart.

I don't know. I don't know anything anymore, and I probably never knew anything in the first place.

April fool's?Engrish_Major

Please be an April Fools joke.. Oh god! :cry: jaydough

Perhaps April Fools wasn't the best day for me to post this. . .if I want to be taken seriously, anyway. . .

Just have faith in god and it well help you threw these times.Wolf-avatar

Faith like that shouldn't be blind, which is all it would be. It would be an injustice to my own intellect and to God if He exists.

April Fool's? You've never seemed like the atheist type.james28893

Niether did Bertrand Russell.

Just put it that way, God = Hope. You dont have to be an atheist, you can have your own belief, why would you follow something that created division trhough the world for centuries. Just e-mail the pope and lets see he does think of all this.

Just put it that way, God = Hope. You dont have to be an atheist, you can have your own belief, why would you follow something that created division trhough the world for centuries. Just e-mail the pope and lets see he does think of all this.

DrCoCoPiMp

Division? Do you mean seperate religions?

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]April fool's?Dracargen

Please be an April Fools joke.. Oh god! :cry: jaydough

Perhaps April Fools wasn't the best day for me to post this. . .if I want to be taken seriously, anyway. . .

Sorry if it is not. However, it probably wasn't the right day...

Anyway, what's wrong with just being an agnostic? Why feel the need to know definitively? I personally believe that no human really knows the answers, so really, we should all be agnostics. I also am very skeptical of people who claim to have the answers.

Good for you, now you're gonna get some freedom and express your intelligence. Congrats.Krigen89

It isn't an issue of freedom for me. Rather it's an issue of emotion and logic.

One of the reasons I dislike April Fools is that someone might write something serious on that day, only for it to be dismissed because it happened to be written on the 1st of the 4th.

Anywho, whether or not you're serious about this, I'm not sure what to say. When, many years ago, I asked myself if I believe that God (or any deity for that matter) exists, I thought about it by myself, and reached an answer myself. I don't think it's really possible to get a worthwhile, unbiased opinion on the matter from anyone. I hope that somehow helps in some way.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]April fool's?Engrish_Major

Please be an April Fools joke.. Oh god! :cry: jaydough

Perhaps April Fools wasn't the best day for me to post this. . .if I want to be taken seriously, anyway. . .

Sorry if it is not. However, it probably wasn't the right day...

Anyway, what's wrong with just being an agnostic? Why feel the need to know definitively? I personally believe that no human really knows the answers, so really, we should all be agnostics. I also am very skeptical of people who claim to have the answers.

An agnostic believes either we can never know the answer, or, in its lighter position, believes we don't currently have enough information to make a decision. I think we have enough information available to at least conclude that God of some sort probably does/does not exist.

What are your problems? Expecting God to give you problems and then expecting it to take them away is kind of pointless unless you share what those problems are and try to work them out.

[QUOTE="Krigen89"]Good for you, now you're gonna get some freedom and express your intelligence. Congrats.Dracargen

It isn't an issue of freedom for me. Rather it's an issue of emotion and logic.

I know, btu if you become agnostic (or ahteist) you're gonna have less rules to follow, and you'll be able to make yours. I try to live by the saying «If at the end of the day I'm good with myself and what I did, then I did the right thing.» I don't judge right from wrong based on the socially acceptable moral, I judge it on what's tolerable or isn't to ME. I have my own set of moral rules, and that's that.

One of the reasons I dislike April Fools is that someone might write something serious on that day, only for it to be dismissed because it happened to be written on the 1st of the 4th.

Anywho, whether or not you're serious about this, I'm not sure what to say. When, many years ago, I asked myself if I believe that God (or any deity for that matter) exists, I thought about it by myself, and reached an answer myself. I don't think it's really possible to get a worthwhile, unbiased opinion on the matter from anyone. I hope that somehow helps in some way.

Zagrius

To be fair, this probably would make the best April Fools topic ever.:P

I think an unbiased view point is impossible. . .so I don't try to look for one.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SyD02UkZ9lE

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]April fool's?Dracargen

Please be an April Fools joke.. Oh god! :cry: jaydough

Perhaps April Fools wasn't the best day for me to post this. . .if I want to be taken seriously, anyway. . .

Sorry if it is not. However, it probably wasn't the right day...

Anyway, what's wrong with just being an agnostic? Why feel the need to know definitively? I personally believe that no human really knows the answers, so really, we should all be agnostics. I also am very skeptical of people who claim to have the answers.

An agnostic believes either we can never know the answer, or, in its lighter position, believes we don't currently have enough information to make a decision. I think we have enough information available to at least conclude that God of some sort probably does/does not exist.

I don't think we do...

What are your problems? Expecting God to give you problems and then expecting it to take them away is kind of pointless unless you share what those problems are and try to work them out.

The_Ish

I posted a link to my blog in the very first sentence. . .

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="Krigen89"]Good for you, now you're gonna get some freedom and express your intelligence. Congrats.Krigen89

It isn't an issue of freedom for me. Rather it's an issue of emotion and logic.

I know, btu if you become agnostic (or ahteist) you're gonna have less rules to follow, and you'll be able to make yours. I try to live by the saying «If at the end of the day I'm good with myself and what I did, then I did the right thing.» I don't judge right from wrong based on the socially acceptable moral, I judge it on what's tolerable or isn't to ME. I have my own set of moral rules, and that's that.

I don't know. I don't think I should reject a set of rules for the simple reason that I dislike them. Why are they called rules if they should only be followed by people who like them?

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think I should reject something purely on the basis of my personal preference.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SyD02UkZ9lE

JLAudio7

Um. . . .okay. Thanks. . .

I don't get it. Why do most people become atheists when life isn't treating them well or your god didn't bless you with what you were hoping for? There are plenty of other good reasons to become an atheist. majadamus

IMO, most are conditioned (even if not deliberately) and then only start thinking in this way when bad stuff happens. Not saying that this is necessarily the case here though.

I don't get it. Why do most people become atheists when life isn't treating them well or your god didn't bless you with what you were hoping for? There are plenty of much better reasons to become an atheist. majadamus

Could you tell me some of these reasons please?

You might not know for a long time how these events will play out. You should not make this decision now, while you're still going through them. The emotion you're feeling is going cloud your judgement, so wait until you're at a stable point in life, and you can reflect on everything. It may be a couple of years, but you will be better served that way. If you do decide to become an atheist now, what is it going to do? It's not going to make things any better.its_me_

It's not something you decide. It is whatever makes most sense to you. It is not like choosing what to eat for lunch...

You might not know for a long time how these events will play out. You should not make this decision now, while you're still going through them. The emotion you're feeling is going cloud your judgement, so wait until you're at a stable point in life, and you can reflect on everything. It may be a couple of years, but you will be better served that way. If you do decide to become an atheist now, what is it going to do? It's not going to make things any better.its_me_

That sounds like good advice to me.

[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

What are your problems? Expecting God to give you problems and then expecting it to take them away is kind of pointless unless you share what those problems are and try to work them out.

Dracargen

I posted a link to my blog in the very first sentence. . .

Did you edit that in? Because there was no link the first time I read it. Weird.

Anyways, have you tried reporting to the police your uncle's ex-fiance's condition? Or filed a child-abuse report to the authorities (she did strangle the girl, so you should have a case there, especially if the strangulation left marks).

You could also try working part-time to help support your mother, unless that is out of the question.

You might not know for a long time how these events will play out. You should not make this decision now, while you're still going through them. The emotion you're feeling is going cloud your judgement, so wait until you're at a stable point in life, and you can reflect on everything. It may be a couple of years, but you will be better served that way. If you do decide to become an atheist now, what is it going to do? It's not going to make things any better.its_me_

This is very good advice. Think less about how the current situation in your life affects your belief in God and think more about getting out of the situation in the first place.

In Friedrich Nietszche's Thus Spoke Zarathustra he says that Christianity is based upon a hatred of the body, and of this Earth. Fundamentally, it is an attempt of human beings to deny both of those things through belief in a Creator and an afterlife.

That summary rocked me to the core because its true.

So I too have recently found myself wondering if there really is a God. The answer for myself? I think there is a God, but I don't need a preacher/pope telling me what I can and cannot do. He wants me to be the best person I can be. He built urges into me, and as long as I do not mindlessly indulge I fall within his good grace.

So no, don't walk away from God. Walk away from organized religion if anything. No man in our world today hears the word of God better than anybody else.

You might not know for a long time how these events will play out. You should not make this decision now, while you're still going through them. The emotion you're feeling is going cloud your judgement, so wait until you're at a stable point in life, and you can reflect on everything. It may be a couple of years, but you will be better served that way. If you do decide to become an atheist now, what is it going to do? It's not going to make things any better.its_me_

That's a good point.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

What are your problems? Expecting God to give you problems and then expecting it to take them away is kind of pointless unless you share what those problems are and try to work them out.

The_Ish

I posted a link to my blog in the very first sentence. . .

Did you edit that in? Because there was no link the first time I read it. Weird.

Anyways, have you tried reporting to the police your uncle's ex-fiance's condition? Or filed a child-abuse report to the authorities (she did strangle the girl, so you should have a case there, especially if the strangulation left marks).

You could also try working part-time to help support your mother, unless that is out of the question.

The link was always there, for me. I did edit in an extra paragraph.

They've already been reported to the police and everything. This was back during Eastertime.

You are basically asking us if God exists.. that will get you nowhere.

If you are religious, you should know that everything happens for a reason, and that you will get through this, no need to just convert all of a sudden.

Also, if this is an April Fools joke (because I'm reading this and man, I can't believe you are saying it, it's just such old and tired arguments and questions that will never be answered.) then you toally got me.

Every year countless babies starve to death in Africa and the rest of the world..... of course God cares :|killtactics

I guess it only hits hard when it hits home.

Every year countless babies starve to death in Africa and the rest of the world..... of course God cares :|killtactics

What, you want God to drop cooked turkeys from the sky? It's not Gods fault. If you had any idea what was going on there, you would know that.

After being diagnosed with AML Leukemia and finding that there was a hefty chance that I could die, I went through the same thing. Even while I was in the hospital, I stopped praying for awhile (praying is a pretty common practice amongst those faced with their own mortality) and it didn't change anything. I started up again out of sheer terror and hope that I would live through and, since I have, I don't credit the prayer. I credit perseverence and a willingness to believe. God was involved in my mind, yes, but you have to help yourself as much as God helps you. Honestly, I hate to sound like Pangloss(?) from Candide, but this seems to be the best of all worlds. All will turn out well in the end, you just can't assume the end is here. If God exists (Agnostic Christian alert!) then even a death end would be well to put you with Him, but if not, life goes on and we can only work with what we have. Either way, persevere.

I hope that helps or provides insight of some kind. In many ways it was therapeutic for me to actually put into words following what's been happening in my life lately. God gives us the tools, it's our job to work with them.

You are basically asking us if God exists.. that will get you nowhere.

If you are religious, you should know that everything happens for a reason, and that you will get through this, no need to just convert all of a sudden.

Also, if this is an April Fools joke (because I'm reading this and man, I can't believe you are saying it, it's just such old and tired arguments and questions that will never be answered.) then you toally got me.

ElArab

I know, but it's hard believing that there is a reason, you know?

I'm not asking if God exists. I'm just asking for reasons to stay or to leave.

[QUOTE="its_me_"]You might not know for a long time how these events will play out. You should not make this decision now, while you're still going through them. The emotion you're feeling is going cloud your judgement, so wait until you're at a stable point in life, and you can reflect on everything. It may be a couple of years, but you will be better served that way. If you do decide to become an atheist now, what is it going to do? It's not going to make things any better.Engrish_Major

It's not something you decide. It is whatever makes most sense to you. It is not like choosing what to eat for lunch...

You decide what lifestyle to pursue, what your outlook on life is going to be, and how you deal with your problems and with other people. Religion adversely affects all of those. When you choose to identify with a religious group, you also begin to consciously make decisions based on the mindset that is promoted by that group. You choose a lot more than you think when it comes to what you believe.

I don't get it. Why do most people become atheists when life isn't treating them well or your god didn't bless you with what you were hoping for? There are plenty of much better reasons to become an atheist. majadamus

I was thinking the same thing.

No offense but It's being self centered. There has always been milions of people with way worse problems (Not saying your situation is ok tho) but while your life was ok then god exist regardless of all the people suffering in the world. then if yourself is going through a rough time that prove he doesn't exist ?

[QUOTE="killtactics"]Every year countless babies starve to death in Africa and the rest of the world..... of course God cares :|ElArab

What, you want God to drop cooked turkeys from the sky? It's not Gods fault. If you had any idea what was going on there, you would know that.