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Well, you dont have to be an atheist. Thats the beauty of being a spiritual person, and not a religious one: you can believe what you wish.
I categorize myself as an atheist simply because I agree with the more traditional atheists viewpoints (concerning religion), and I really really dont like religious interpretations of God. The area I differ from atheist is the following:
1. I believe in a higher power
2. I dont know what the hell its up to, so I dont bother trying to explain it.
So as of right now my attitude is this: the higher power can be a variety of things, from an all-powerful God or perhaps just the laws of physics. Hell, I wouldnt even criticize anyone that believes in The Force to be completely honest. The important thing to me, at least, is knowing that the universe has some sort of order...I am a romantic at heart. I like looking at a beautiful valley or sunset and saying "Ahhhh, thats just too beautiful to be a random occurance".
But, atheism isnt all bad. If youre right, it wont matter. If youre wrong, I think God would be understanding so long as you live a good life. "Do you believe in me now?" he might say as you stand at the gates of heaven, then you'd say "Yes, sorry about that" and he would reply "Its OK, you were a good person so come on in".
Frankly, I like depending on myself, friends, and family as opposed to praying to God and waiting. If I suffered from disease, I would much rather accept a book of research about prevention and treatment than to light a few candles, sacrifice a chicken, and play with rosary beads. I dont criticize those that celebrate their religion, only those that use it as a weapon or to ****fy themselves as superiors.
Plus, with my viewpoint, I dont blame God for anything bad. This way, in the event a concious supreme being does exist, he doesnt really have anything to be mad about. I give him credit for me being alive in the world (albeit as a higher power, and not an individual), and I dont blame him for anything lol.
keep going back to god everything takes effort so you have to keep on prayingNSR34GTR
Ahh!!! Kinda like those parents who's daughter died because they kept on praying?
[QUOTE="Truth_Seekr"][QUOTE="NSR34GTR"]keep going back to god everything takes effort so you have to keep on prayingjlh47
Ahh!!! Kinda like those parents who's daughter died because they kept on praying?
way to take things out of context.. good for you!
lol
Well they did make a huge effort by praying for 30 days, and so now she's in heaven.
[QUOTE="xXBuffJeffXx"][QUOTE="effthat"]If you do then we officially have nothing in common anymore.
Personally, I think that when you are under stress, giving up on your Religion is pointless and in a way is accepting defeat. It just seems backwards to me that when bad turns worse people give up religion. It's especially illogical because a strong faith should come with the knowledge that in order for good to exist, there must be bad.
Your situation sucks. There is no way around that.
Personally, I think your family has been fighting to keep the status quo even when it's causing them harm. Your moms needs to leave "Druggie". You should continue to fight for your cousin and support your uncle and generally come together as a unit to overcome these things.
I think that lamenting over losing television and internet is kind of petty in the circumstances and freeing up the 100+ bucks a month will go a great deal towards getting back on your feet.
Since I'm on a role of support, I'll add that the people are the ones to blame, not the drugs. Drugs didn't make your stepfather a lazy lieing stealing slob and your ex-(almost)aunt obviously has greater issues and probably is abusing because of the much deeper rooted problems that she has developed. Considering she is unwed and has an 11 year old and a four month old I would guess she has a great deal of emotional baggage. Perhaps strength from faith and religion would have helped her deal with the issue instead of numbing herself until she exploded.
Anyway, If your decision is based on something other than hardship then you have my best wishes. In the end we have to do what is right for us and if denouncing your god is going to make the world more clear and easier to live in, then by all means. I do ask that you don't make it a goal to press your nonbelief on every person that walks by. I ask the same thing of anyone regardless of their belief. Religion is personal. I don't dig your BVDs out of your pants and tell you how much more comfortable mine are...
effthat
Ouch. I thought I put too much effort into my responses. Dammit, Dracargen! :lol:
There are still some decent thoughts in there...
The comment on drugs and religious discussion being the two that I think are worth keeping around..
Anyway, I've known some pretty foul situations. I've dated some crazy girls in crazy situations (you probably wouldn't believe me as it's april first). So the story isn't too far fetched in comparison to some of the crap that really does go on. I'm glad to hear that all the stuf with his uncle is made up. I don't give a hoot about his truck, but child abuse gets to me.
I'm afraid the hardships I mentioned are real. I'm just not becoming an atheist because of them.:(
[QUOTE="jlh47"][QUOTE="Truth_Seekr"][QUOTE="NSR34GTR"]keep going back to god everything takes effort so you have to keep on prayingTruth_Seekr
Ahh!!! Kinda like those parents who's daughter died because they kept on praying?
way to take things out of context.. good for you!
lol
Well they did make a huge effort by praying for 30 days, and so now she's in heaven.
lol
well that is one way of thinking... gotta stay positive in this world.
I'm not athiest, but I am also not a christian either. To me, I just can't see the good of worshipping something or someone. And I do believe I am in control of my life no matter how hard or impossible it may seem, sooner or later, I can change it for the better.
:( I'm gonna resist any temptation to be crude/smug/whatever about this atheist business.
We all go through hard times. Have this: *hug*
:D:twisted: I know where you live.Well, I gave it a lot of thought, and then I was about to decide, when I looked out my window and saw a cloud shaped liked a rabbit with beautiful colors from the sun. It was very pretty.
So I'm going to stay a Christian. Thanks for the support, everyone!:D
Dracargen
[QUOTE="Truth_Seekr"][QUOTE="NSR34GTR"]keep going back to god everything takes effort so you have to keep on prayingjlh47
Ahh!!! Kinda like those parents who's daughter died because they kept on praying?
way to take things out of context.. good for you!
actually thats the perfect example.
Not to mention these others:
pray for a job
pray for good grades
pray you win a soccer game
Just keep on praying...you do it enough, eventually something good will happen. But dont dare think its coincedence...thats GOD'S INVOLVEMENT
I was going to post a comment but felt I couldn't, as I'm now leaning heavily towards Christianity myself - I just haven't chosen the right flavour yet.
I was going to post a comment but felt I couldn't, as I'm now leaning heavily towards Christianity myself - I just haven't chosen the right flavour yet.
RationalAtheist
and thats why Christianity fails. Because they have too many flavors. They need to take a lesson from In n Out Burger; just have like 3 things on the menu!
All right, I've been going through some very hard times lately, and it's got me to thinking.
I know that God is supposed to be good, and have a wonderful plan for everything. But I just cannot see any kind of usefulness in my hardships. I can't see how these times will improve my life in any substantial way. It feels like everything is going wrong, and nothing is going to ever become right again. And that has me wondering about the true omnibenevolence of God and His "great plan."
I know that these feelings will eventually pass. But what of God? Does God honestly not care enough? But the God of Christianity is one that is always loving and caring, even in hard times. Does God care for me? If not, then God as defined by Christianity cannot and does not exist. And it truly seems like God does not care about me right now. I don't know. If God does exist, then I wouldn't be the gifted man to know His mind. But I wish God would just grant me a feeling, a sign, some small thing or thought that would re-warm my faith--is that too much for me to ask?
In addition to these feelings of hardship, my own personal relationship with God has gotten cold and meaningless. I find myself praying with repeated and bland words to my wall, with no expectation of an answer or a feeling of warmth, but I do it anyway. Is this devotion, or am I just acting on what has become a habit? An empty relationship with a deity might as well be no relationship at all. If God exists, He wants my full devotion, and I should want Him to have it, because He would rightly deserve it. But why do I not have this feeling anymore? Maybe I've already made the decision in my mind and heart, and I'm not quite ready to consciously accept it. I just don't know. . .
I've been looking at more in-depth arguments for atheism lately, and I feel that they have more weight now than I used to. One that I particularly found moving is one centered on morality: Does God command something because it is moral, or is something moral because God commands it? If something is moral because God commands it, then morality is arbitrary and meaningless--if God commands something because it is moral, then morality is outside of God's control, which is contradictory to the God of Christianity, and so Christianity is false. Either way, it seems that Christianity cannot answer this question, at least as far as I can find.
I've also come across the terribly mind-numbing concept of infinite regress. Either the universe is eternal or God has a creator. Eternity is against logic, and so God, if He exists, needs a creator of His own. But then what? Not only am I faced with an infinite line of Creators, but the God I worship is limited and non-infinite. He may even be dead, with a new one that has replaced Him. It just seems easier to believe that the universe can somehow sustain itself, rather than there being an infinite line of gods that came before.
And then there's the concept of evidence. Why has God not revealed Himself to more people? If He does exist, then why is the minority of the creations He supposedly loves going to be with Him forever, rather than the majority? Just because they didn't see something that, for God, would be an easy feat.
My brain is hurting, my heart is breaking, my worldview is falling apart, and my Bible is sitting on a shelf gathering dust as I look desperately for an answer that may not even be there. But what can I do? I can't just sit tight as everything I believe is slowly destroyed. So I have come here, where I can hopefully get some answers from theists and atheists alike. But as I said before, I may have already made the decision in my heart.
I don't know. I don't know anything anymore, and I probably never knew anything in the first place.
Dracargen
i was rejected yesterday... and without Him, i would probably had committed suicide... so yeah...
and thats why Christianity fails. Because they have too many flavors. They need to take a lesson from In n Out Burger; just have like 3 things on the menu!
mrbojangles25
yeah, about the only thing that all Christians agree on is the Resurrection, and that's only because if they didn't they wouldn't be Christian.
[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Krigen89"]Good for you, now you're gonna get some freedom and express your intelligence. Congrats.Krigen89
It isn't an issue of freedom for me. Rather it's an issue of emotion and logic.
I know, btu if you become agnostic (or ahteist) you're gonna have less rules to follow, and you'll be able to make yours. I try to live by the saying «If at the end of the day I'm good with myself and what I did, then I did the right thing.» I don't judge right from wrong based on the socially acceptable moral, I judge it on what's tolerable or isn't to ME. I have my own set of moral rules, and that's that.
I believe in God, just not the way people see it. I have my moral rules, etc. I'm completely free. I do not believe on bible, etc. It's my own way to see it, God is just the way we percieve it.
[QUOTE="jlh47"][QUOTE="Truth_Seekr"][QUOTE="NSR34GTR"]keep going back to god everything takes effort so you have to keep on prayingmrbojangles25
Ahh!!! Kinda like those parents who's daughter died because they kept on praying?
way to take things out of context.. good for you!
actually thats the perfect example.
Not to mention these others:
pray for a job
pray for good grades
pray you win a soccer game
Just keep on praying...you do it enough, eventually something good will happen. But dont dare think its coincedence...thats GOD'S INVOLVEMENT
From what I've been taught, you ask for God's help in doing these things. You then go work for it like anyone else does.
If God chooses to help you, it will probably be through the form of focusing your mind on the task, reinforcing your willpower, or something along those lines.
First time?i was rejected yesterday... and without Him, i would probably had committed suicide... so yeah...
battlefront23
From what I've been taught, you ask for God's help in doing these things. You then go work for it like anyone else does.
If God chooses to help you, it will probably be through the form of focusing your mind on the task, reinforcing your willpower, or something along those lines.
Nagru
So God is like a strong cup of coffee?
Just for those that don't know, this thread is an april fool - as admitted some posts ago.
This is a pretty decent April Fool's bit, especially coming from you.All right, I've been going through some very hard times lately, and it's got me to thinking.
I know that God is supposed to be good, and have a wonderful plan for everything. But I just cannot see any kind of usefulness in my hardships. I can't see how these times will improve my life in any substantial way. It feels like everything is going wrong, and nothing is going to ever become right again. And that has me wondering about the true omnibenevolence of God and His "great plan."
I know that these feelings will eventually pass. But what of God? Does God honestly not care enough? But the God of Christianity is one that is always loving and caring, even in hard times. Does God care for me? If not, then God as defined by Christianity cannot and does not exist. And it truly seems like God does not care about me right now. I don't know. If God does exist, then I wouldn't be the gifted man to know His mind. But I wish God would just grant me a feeling, a sign, some small thing or thought that would re-warm my faith--is that too much for me to ask?
In addition to these feelings of hardship, my own personal relationship with God has gotten cold and meaningless. I find myself praying with repeated and bland words to my wall, with no expectation of an answer or a feeling of warmth, but I do it anyway. Is this devotion, or am I just acting on what has become a habit? An empty relationship with a deity might as well be no relationship at all. If God exists, He wants my full devotion, and I should want Him to have it, because He would rightly deserve it. But why do I not have this feeling anymore? Maybe I've already made the decision in my mind and heart, and I'm not quite ready to consciously accept it. I just don't know. . .
I've been looking at more in-depth arguments for atheism lately, and I feel that they have more weight now than I used to. One that I particularly found moving is one centered on morality: Does God command something because it is moral, or is something moral because God commands it? If something is moral because God commands it, then morality is arbitrary and meaningless--if God commands something because it is moral, then morality is outside of God's control, which is contradictory to the God of Christianity, and so Christianity is false. Either way, it seems that Christianity cannot answer this question, at least as far as I can find.
I've also come across the terribly mind-numbing concept of infinite regress. Either the universe is eternal or God has a creator. Eternity is against logic, and so God, if He exists, needs a creator of His own. But then what? Not only am I faced with an infinite line of Creators, but the God I worship is limited and non-infinite. He may even be dead, with a new one that has replaced Him. It just seems easier to believe that the universe can somehow sustain itself, rather than there being an infinite line of gods that came before.
And then there's the concept of evidence. Why has God not revealed Himself to more people? If He does exist, then why is the minority of the creations He supposedly loves going to be with Him forever, rather than the majority? Just because they didn't see something that, for God, would be an easy feat.
My brain is hurting, my heart is breaking, my worldview is falling apart, and my Bible is sitting on a shelf gathering dust as I look desperately for an answer that may not even be there. But what can I do? I can't just sit tight as everything I believe is slowly destroyed. So I have come here, where I can hopefully get some answers from theists and atheists alike. But as I said before, I may have already made the decision in my heart.
I don't know. I don't know anything anymore, and I probably never knew anything in the first place.
Dracargen
You are speaking as though you know that God exists, but aren't following Him. It's like choosing to not believe that sandwiches exist. You know He exists, so why deny it? You're sparter than this. If you are having so much trouble, consult a pastor.
I hope this is an April Fool's, but if it isn't, well, God bless.
You are speaking as though you know that God exists, but aren't following Him. It's like choosing to not believe that sandwiches exist. You know He exists, so why deny it? You're sparter than this. If you are having so much trouble, consult a pastor. LebbinBut there is no evidence or anything that would give any indication to gods existence... Blind faith is all anyone has. Not good for the progression of mankind
You are speaking as though you know that God exists, but aren't following Him. It's like choosing to not believe that sandwiches exist. You know He exists, so why deny it? You're sparter than this. If you are having so much trouble, consult a pastor. LebbinAnd indeed, how can one choose to eat sandwiches while at the same time partaking in the joy of their consumption? In much the same way, an atheist spites himself by choosing to partake in God's wonders (his own existence being one of them), and then fails to believe in so basic and glorious a thing as God. Unimaginable.
[QUOTE="effthat"][QUOTE="xXBuffJeffXx"][QUOTE="effthat"]If you do then we officially have nothing in common anymore.
Personally, I think that when you are under stress, giving up on your Religion is pointless and in a way is accepting defeat. It just seems backwards to me that when bad turns worse people give up religion. It's especially illogical because a strong faith should come with the knowledge that in order for good to exist, there must be bad.
Your situation sucks. There is no way around that.
Personally, I think your family has been fighting to keep the status quo even when it's causing them harm. Your moms needs to leave "Druggie". You should continue to fight for your cousin and support your uncle and generally come together as a unit to overcome these things.
I think that lamenting over losing television and internet is kind of petty in the circumstances and freeing up the 100+ bucks a month will go a great deal towards getting back on your feet.
Since I'm on a role of support, I'll add that the people are the ones to blame, not the drugs. Drugs didn't make your stepfather a lazy lieing stealing slob and your ex-(almost)aunt obviously has greater issues and probably is abusing because of the much deeper rooted problems that she has developed. Considering she is unwed and has an 11 year old and a four month old I would guess she has a great deal of emotional baggage. Perhaps strength from faith and religion would have helped her deal with the issue instead of numbing herself until she exploded.
Anyway, If your decision is based on something other than hardship then you have my best wishes. In the end we have to do what is right for us and if denouncing your god is going to make the world more clear and easier to live in, then by all means. I do ask that you don't make it a goal to press your nonbelief on every person that walks by. I ask the same thing of anyone regardless of their belief. Religion is personal. I don't dig your BVDs out of your pants and tell you how much more comfortable mine are...
Dracargen
Ouch. I thought I put too much effort into my responses. Dammit, Dracargen! :lol:
There are still some decent thoughts in there...
The comment on drugs and religious discussion being the two that I think are worth keeping around..
Anyway, I've known some pretty foul situations. I've dated some crazy girls in crazy situations (you probably wouldn't believe me as it's april first). So the story isn't too far fetched in comparison to some of the crap that really does go on. I'm glad to hear that all the stuf with his uncle is made up. I don't give a hoot about his truck, but child abuse gets to me.
I'm afraid the hardships I mentioned are real. I'm just not becoming an atheist because of them.:(
your becoming an athiest because you believe that there could not possibly be a God because of the awful things that are happening to your family and you. The bible actually adresses this problem that many people have when their life stinks. Read your bible.
Also keep in mind that evolution cannot be true because the earth cannot be millions of years old. Because scientists have found Carbon14 integrated into objects and fossils that athiests claim to be millions of years old. Carbon14 has a shelf life of 11,000 years.
And for those of you who say that the carbon 14 some how got in it than how can we trust any thing they have dated when these fossils are not millions of years old.
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]First time?i was rejected yesterday... and without Him, i would probably had committed suicide... so yeah...
CptJSparrow
fourth...
You are speaking as though you know that God exists, but aren't following Him. It's like choosing to not believe that sandwiches exist. You know He exists, so why deny it? You're sparter than this. If you are having so much trouble, consult a pastor.
I hope this is an April Fool's, but if it isn't, well, God bless.
Lebbin
No, I can see sandwiches - I can touch them (inspecting their insides), I can smell them and I can eat them. I can measure their existence. I can create and destroy them.
Despite this being a wind up, I can not understand your advice of seeking a pastor. To me, this seems like suggesting a drug addict should go and see their dealer for advice.
Yet you can do all this only because these sandwiches ultimately come from the Divine Deli.No, I can see the sandwiches - I can touch them (inspecting their insides), I can smell them and I can eat them. I can measure their existence. I can create and destroy them.
RationalAtheist
They've actually tried carbon dating sandwiches, telling us that they are too old ot eat, and have we listened? Certainly not.your becoming an athiest because you believe that there could not possibly be a God because of the awful things that are happening to your family and you. The bible actually adresses this problem that many people have when their life stinks. Read your bible.
Also keep in mind that evolution cannot be true because the earth cannot be millions of years old. Because scientists have found Carbon14 integrated into objects and fossils that athiests claim to be millions of years old. Carbon14 has a shelf life of 11,000 years.
And for those of you who say that the carbon 14 some how got in it than how can we trust any thing they have dated when these fossils are not millions of years old.
awsomnes2tehmax
[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]First time?i was rejected yesterday... and without Him, i would probably had committed suicide... so yeah...
battlefront23
fourth...
Having a girlfriend or boyfriend is not important during one's academic career, and if you get like this after each rejection I feel that you have not yet mastered yourself, or learned control, which needs to be done if you seek to become a unit with another. Rejection should be nothing to you; you should never give up when rejected, for you have obviously chosen the wrong person -- and how do you expect to find the right one when you react in this way? Many people will not like you, and a few will. I am not a Christian by any hue, though I wonder if perhaps you are praying for the right thing and using the inspiration that prayer endows properly, channeling it in the proper direction, the bull's eye that will thrust you forward to triumph? Learning to accept that is one of the less strenuous challenges that inhabit the bogs of life, as Dracargen will know if he really is going to tear down the foundations of his world and start anew...[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]First time?i was rejected yesterday... and without Him, i would probably had committed suicide... so yeah...
CptJSparrow
fourth...
Having a girlfriend or boyfriend is not important during one's academic career, and if you get like this after each rejection I feel that you have not yet mastered yourself, or learned control, which needs to be done if you seek to become a unit with another. Rejection should be nothing to you; you should never give up when rejected, for you have obviously chosen the wrong person -- and how do you expect to find the right one when you react in this way? Many people will not like you, and a few will. I am not a Christian by any hue, though I wonder if perhaps you are praying for the right thing and using the inspiration that prayer endows properly, channeling it in the proper direction, the bull's eye that will thrust you forward to triumph? Learning to accept that is one of the less strenuous challenges that inhabit the bogs of life, as Dracargen will know if he really is going to tear down the foundations of his world and start anew... No relationships in your academic times are healthy and natural.It can be used to date things up to 60,000 years. Moreover, potassium-argon has a half-life of over one billion years and uranium-lead dating may be used for a range of one million to 4.5 billion years, according to: Romer, R.L. 2003. Alpha-recoil in U-Pb geochronology: Effective sample size matters. Contributions to Mineralogy and Petrology 145, (4): 481-491your becoming an athiest because you believe that there could not possibly be a God because of the awful things that are happening to your family and you. The bible actually adresses this problem that many people have when their life stinks. Read your bible.
Also keep in mind that evolution cannot be true because the earth cannot be millions of years old. Because scientists have found Carbon14 integrated into objects and fossils that athiests claim to be millions of years old. Carbon14 has a shelf life of 11,000 years.
And for those of you who say that the carbon 14 some how got in it than how can we trust any thing they have dated when these fossils are not millions of years old.
awsomnes2tehmax
No relationships in your academic times are healthy and natural.Does this mean that they are important? If one encounters stress from the social life, one should be rid of it; nothing should stand in the way of your happiness and if an inability to uncouple yourself with the idea that you must have a relationship stands in the way, then that deterrent must be overcome.
swizz-the-gamer
[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]No relationships in your academic times are healthy and natural.Does this mean that they are important? If one encounters stress from the social life, one should be rid of it; nothing should stand in the way of your happiness and if an inability to uncouple yourself with the idea that you must have a relationship stands in the way, then that deterrent must be overcome. What stresses out one person may not stress out another person and if a person receives only anxiety from a relationship I don't see why they shouldn't receive the same from school.
CptJSparrow
[QUOTE="Dracargen"]*OT Text*
battlefront23
i was rejected yesterday... and without Him, i would probably had committed suicide... so yeah...
seriously?
Is it because suicides go to hell, or because He actually stopped you?
Dont get me wrong, I dont want to be cynical I am just curious. I am glad you chose not to kill yourself
[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]No relationships in your academic times are healthy and natural.Does this mean that they are important? If one encounters stress from the social life, one should be rid of it; nothing should stand in the way of your happiness and if an inability to uncouple yourself with the idea that you must have a relationship stands in the way, then that deterrent must be overcome.I would say they are important yes. Stress is natural and everyone should learn to deal with it their own way. Relationships in your teens will give you fond memories for the rest of your life and will give you a good healthy attitude to girls.
CptJSparrow
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