I think I'm becoming an atheist. . .

[QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"]Just have faith in god and it well help you threw these times.kittykatz5k

God doesn't help you through the hard times, you have to get yourself through them. Even if I would accept the idea of a god, I would not entrust him my life so wastefully to his powers and plan being there to help me. The poor don't resume life by praying.

Sorry, I hate replies like that. Whether you believe in god or not, your actions make who you are, can't give god credit for that.

http://www.nderf.org

nVidiaGaMer

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Hm, perhaps what I am trying to say only applies if the person involved is pressured into the situation and feels shame because of the expectations society holds for them, rather than what they hold for their self.swizz-the-gamer

[QUOTE="nVidiaGaMer"]http://www.nderf.org

foxhound_fox

That is as close to proof as it gets. Skeptics :roll:

Wheres the disproof?

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="nVidiaGaMer"]http://www.nderf.org

nVidiaGaMer

That is as close to proof as it gets. Skeptics :roll:

Wheres the disproof?

We have nothing to disprove, a bunch of blatant lies is not proof.

That is as close to proof as it gets. Skeptics :roll:

Wheres the disproof?

nVidiaGaMer

:shock: woah

now thats a horrible spot of luck right there. i had a really rough spot about 4 years ago

ive never believed much in god. not because of that bad spot in my life, though. ive just never been really religous.

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Hm, perhaps what I am trying to say only applies if the person involved is pressured into the situation and feels shame because of the expectations society holds for them, rather than what they hold for their self.CptJSparrow

And the drugs thing. People who have never taken drugs have limited knowledge of the effects of drugs and the motives for people taking them. I'm sorry but thats the truth.

Do whatever you want to do because you have the right do so and it's your free will. If you feel that this can be a mistake then take a step back and think how this can affect you and others. Also how things will change in your lifestyle and everything that you do. If I were you though I would just continue to believe in god because there's no harm in doing so. Have strong faith.

I've also come across the terribly mind-numbing concept of infinite regress. Either the universe is eternal or God has a creator. Eternity is against logic, and so God, if He exists, needs a creator of His own. But then what? Not only am I faced with an infinite line of Creators, but the God I worship is limited and non-infinite. He may even be dead, with a new one that has replaced Him. It just seems easier to believe that the universe can somehow sustain itself, rather than there being an infinite line of gods that came before.

And then there's the concept of evidence. Why has God not revealed Himself to more people? If He does exist, then why is the minority of the creations He supposedly loves going to be with Him forever, rather than the majority? Just because they didn't see something that, for God, would be an easy feat.

Dracargen

It looks to me like you're trying to putting God in a manmade box. God gave us limited understanding in the way he works. This is why he is God, not just another man. I'm a thinker so I'll give you my reason why God doesn't need a "creator". He created time. You are thinking in terms of something not being there at one point in time and being there at another point. Take time out of the equation and humans cannot comprehend what "creation" is.

But when your brain starts to hurt, its time to stop thinking and start trusting. This is what faith is. God is all-knowing and you are a child. Just like a father who knows better. The son will kick and scream because he is not mature enough to understand. A wise child does what his father says and when he grows up, what his father made him do makes much more sense.

I'm very sorry you're going through hard times, but trust God! Christianity doesn't promise an easy life, but a rewarding one - with the ultimate reward at the end. Your purpose is to love God with all your heart. God has a plan for you. Will you let this hard time drive you down? or will you stand up to it and let it become a testimony. One day this will all make sense. Whatever choice you make now. Make sure you're in the right place when His plan becomes clear to you...

Jesus loves you. Just be still and know that.

Wow. sorry for the overdramaticness. I've never written like this before, but this is what I believe. Sorry if some of these thoughts were written before, but I'm not going to read through all this, I've got some studying to do for a spanish test...

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Hm, perhaps what I am trying to say only applies if the person involved is pressured into the situation and feels shame because of the expectations society holds for them, rather than what they hold for their self.CptJSparrow

[QUOTE="nVidiaGaMer"]That is as close to proof as it gets. Skeptics :roll:

Wheres the disproof?

foxhound_fox

Will being dead be like a dreamless sleep?

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="nVidiaGaMer"]That is as close to proof as it gets. Skeptics :roll:

Wheres the disproof?

nVidiaGaMer

Will being dead be like a dreamless sleep?

[QUOTE="nVidiaGaMer"]That is as close to proof as it gets. Skeptics :roll:

Wheres the disproof?

foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]April fool's?Engrish_Major

Please be an April Fools joke.. Oh god! :cry: jaydough

Perhaps April Fools wasn't the best day for me to post this. . .if I want to be taken seriously, anyway. . .

Sorry if it is not. However, it probably wasn't the right day...

Anyway, what's wrong with just being an agnostic? Why feel the need to know definitively? I personally believe that no human really knows the answers, so really, we should all be agnostics. I also am very skeptical of people who claim to have the answers.

Pure brilliance.

Why do we need to know what to live for? We just live. Why must we find a meaning in everything? That only creates conflicts.

Why must you try hard and find a "purpose" or "meaning?" Are you so insecure about yourself that you need the entire world to provide a universally accdepted proof for you to live a comfortable life? Is your life controlled by events around you? That's a symptom of low self-esteem.

Will being dead be like a dreamless sleep?nVidiaGaMer

Goodness... It boggles my mind about people like you. What is your purpose? What do you even live for?brightshadow525

Firewood becomes ashes and cannot become firewood again. However, you should not think of ashes as the subsequent and firewood as the prior [of the same thing]. You should understand that firewood abides in its own state as firewood, and has [its own] prior and subsequent. Although it has [its own] prior and subsequent, it is cut off from prior and subsequent. Ashes are in their own state as ashes and have a prior and subsequent. Just as firewood does not become firewood again after turning to ash, so a person does not return to life again after death.Dogen Zenji

Goodness... It boggles my mind about people like you. What is your purpose? What do you even live for?
brightshadow525

I live to have fun. One day maybe I can leave a footprint on this world, or have a family to continue my name, but for the most part, I just have to live to enjoy life. It'll be mostly meaningless anything you do on this world, but that doesn't mean give up on life just because it has no meaning.

Why do we need to know what to live for? We just live. Why must we find a meaning in everything? That only creates conflicts.
yian

I really didn't want to get into debate, but here's my reply:

If you're satisfied with not having a purpose... just "living", then fine. Keep doing it. The question is "What if you're wrong?". For me, I know the answer to that question: I lose conciousness. How about you?

find a partner, love her wholly, start a family, raise healthy and intelligent children and show them the same love and affection I do for my partner.

foxhound_fox

dang, Foxhound, if I was a chick I would sooo marry you :p

[QUOTE="brightshadow525"]Goodness... It boggles my mind about people like you. What is your purpose? What do you even live for?foxhound_fox

Ah, I love this response. I live for life. I love living my life and all the experiences I face along my path. What is my purpose? Well, my purpose as I see it now is to start a career, find a partner, love her wholly, start a family, raise healthy and intelligent children and show them the same love and affection I do for my partner.

I don't care what comes after my death, I only care about what I can experience now, in the moment. I will take it for what it is worth an enjoy it, not being constantly paranoid about whether I am granted eternal life after death... which is in itself a contradiction. Something cannot cease to exist then come back into existence.

*Sigh* Living for the here and now eh? Oh well.

[QUOTE="yian"]Why do we need to know what to live for? We just live. Why must we find a meaning in everything? That only creates conflicts.
athgeek

I really didn't want to get into debate, but here's my reply:

If you're satisfied with not having a purpose... just "living", then fine. Keep doing it. The question is "What if you're wrong?". For me, I know the answer to that question: I lose conciousness. How about you?

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I don't see any proof that I'm wrong though.

*Sigh* Living for the here and now eh? Oh well.brightshadow525

In Friedrich Nietszche's Thus Spoke Zarathustra he says that Christianity is based upon a hatred of the body, and of this Earth. Fundamentally, it is an attempt of human beings to deny both of those things through belief in a Creator and an afterlife.

That summary rocked me to the core because its true.

So I too have recently found myself wondering if there really is a God. The answer for myself? I think there is a God, but I don't need a preacher/pope telling me what I can and cannot do. He wants me to be the best person I can be. He built urges into me, and as long as I do not mindlessly indulge I fall within his good grace.

So no, don't walk away from God. Walk away from organized religion if anything. No man in our world today hears the word of God better than anybody else.

TheSystemLord1

More pure brilliance. Overly organized religion is the root of all evil(and if you look at history, the cause of most wars). People should be able to form there own beliefs based on information that is available to them, not be forced to follow a predetermined(and flawed) set of rules. You have a right to your own opinion which you should fully utilize.

[QUOTE="yian"]Why do we need to know what to live for? We just live. Why must we find a meaning in everything? That only creates conflicts.
athgeek

I really didn't want to get into debate, but here's my reply:

If you're satisfied with not having a purpose... just "living", then fine. Keep doing it. The question is "What if you're wrong?". For me, I know the answer to that question: I lose conciousness. How about you?

What if? Yeah, what IF. Don't scare people with "what if" please. What if you are a terrorist?

[QUOTE="TheSystemLord1"]

In Friedrich Nietszche's Thus Spoke Zarathustra he says that Christianity is based upon a hatred of the body, and of this Earth. Fundamentally, it is an attempt of human beings to deny both of those things through belief in a Creator and an afterlife.

That summary rocked me to the core because its true.

So I too have recently found myself wondering if there really is a God. The answer for myself? I think there is a God, but I don't need a preacher/pope telling me what I can and cannot do. He wants me to be the best person I can be. He built urges into me, and as long as I do not mindlessly indulge I fall within his good grace.

So no, don't walk away from God. Walk away from organized religion if anything. No man in our world today hears the word of God better than anybody else.

mute9dude

More pure brilliance. Overly organized religion is the root of all evil(and if you look at history, the cause of most wars). People should be able to form there own beliefs based on information that is available to them, not be forced to follow a predetermined(and flawed) set of rules. You have a right to your own opinion which you should fully utilize.

Dracagen did the math and its actual the cause of 6-7% of all wars :P

More pure brilliance. Overly organized religion is the root of all evil(and if you look at history, the cause of most wars). People should be able to form there own beliefs based on information that is available to them, not be forced to follow a predetermined(and flawed) set of rules. You have a right to your own opinion which you should fully utilize.mute9dude

[QUOTE="athgeek"]

[QUOTE="yian"]Why do we need to know what to live for? We just live. Why must we find a meaning in everything? That only creates conflicts.
yian

I really didn't want to get into debate, but here's my reply:

If you're satisfied with not having a purpose... just "living", then fine. Keep doing it. The question is "What if you're wrong?". For me, I know the answer to that question: I lose conciousness. How about you?

What if? Yeah, what IF. Don't scare people with "what if" please. What if you are a terrorist?

Yeah, I know. I fell back on an old "scare" tactic. Really never works on athiests. I've tried it before. But the fact remains that no matter how much you "know" you're right (I'm glad to hear that random arangment of particles you call a "brain" work so well for you), there is always a possibility of a "what IF". Denial will make you feel better, but it doesn't change the truth.

Without God why do good? Why even live? What is your purpose? It won't matter what people will think of you, because when you're dead... you're dead...battlefront23

What you guys are saying does make sense. Living for happiniess is natural. I don't completely reject that idea. Firstly, I live for Jesus Christ. When I love him and follow him, he gives me happiness I have never experienced when I try on my own. Happiness is a natural goal of humans. I've done both and this is really the only way to achieve it. Having a purpose gives you happiness. Love Jesus and know what it's like to be truly loved back. I know I sound like a nationalist for Christianity, but I am. Jesus gave me everything. This is how I feel.athgeek

Oh a purpose? I thought we were talking about a meaning. A meaning implies some higher power's plans of you, a purpose however, is my own personal goals. That is my purpose, to become what I want to become before I die.

Yeah, I know. I fell back on an old "scare" tactic. Really never works on athiests. I've tried it before. But the fact remains that no matter how much you "know" you're right (I'm glad to hear that random arangment of particles you call a "brain" work so well for you), there is always a possibility of a "what IF". Denial will make you feel better, but it doesn't change the truth. athgeek

[QUOTE="athgeek"]What you guys are saying does make sense. Living for happiniess is natural. I don't completely reject that idea. Firstly, I live for Jesus Christ. When I love him and follow him, he gives me happiness I have never experienced when I try on my own. Happiness is a natural goal of humans. I've done both and this is really the only way to achieve it. Having a purpose gives you happiness. Love Jesus and know what it's like to be truly loved back. I know I sound like a nationalist for Christianity, but I am. Jesus gave me everything. This is how I feel.kittykatz5k

Oh a purpose? I thought we were talking about a meaning. A meaning implies some higher power's plans of you, a purpose however, is my own personal goals. That is my purpose, to become what I want to become before I die.

Well I don't want to get hung up on words. When I said "purpose", I did mean a purpose defined by a higher power. And I think that becoming what you want before you die will make you feel happy, I was just stating that I believe there is greater happiness in doing what the "higher power" purposes. I've fealt the love of Jesus and doing what I want just doesn't cut it anymore.

[QUOTE="athgeek"]Yeah, I know. I fell back on an old "scare" tactic. Really never works on athiests. I've tried it before. But the fact remains that no matter how much you "know" you're right (I'm glad to hear that random arangment of particles you call a "brain" work so well for you), there is always a possibility of a "what IF". Denial will make you feel better, but it doesn't change the truth. foxhound_fox

Well while I'm believing in a higher power that man cannot completely define or understand, I also chose to believe that there is a defining truth that no amout of human opposition can change.

I was just stating that I believe there is greater happiness in doing what the "higher power" purposes. athgeek

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]Without God why do good? Why even live? What is your purpose? It won't matter what people will think of you, because when you're dead... you're dead...foxhound_fox

But why do you do it? WHY? Can you ever scientifically explain why you want to help people? And why many others don't....

Yeah, I know. I fell back on an old "scare" tactic. Really never works on athiests. I've tried it before. But the fact remains that no matter how much you "know" you're right (I'm glad to hear that random arangment of particles you call a "brain" work so well for you), there is always a possibility of a "what IF". Denial will make you feel better, but it doesn't change the truth.

athgeek

Truth? May I ask what the truth is? You speak highly of it and call people that think otherwise in "denial." You must have quite an insight when it comes to this "truth." May I ask what is the "truth?"

[QUOTE="athgeek"][QUOTE="yian"][QUOTE="athgeek"]

[QUOTE="yian"]Why do we need to know what to live for? We just live. Why must we find a meaning in everything? That only creates conflicts.
yian

I really didn't want to get into debate, but here's my reply:

If you're satisfied with not having a purpose... just "living", then fine. Keep doing it. The question is "What if you're wrong?". For me, I know the answer to that question: I lose conciousness. How about you?

What if? Yeah, what IF. Don't scare people with "what if" please. What if you are a terrorist?

Yeah, I know. I fell back on an old "scare" tactic. Really never works on athiests. I've tried it before. But the fact remains that no matter how much you "know" you're right (I'm glad to hear that random arangment of particles you call a "brain" work so well for you), there is always a possibility of a "what IF". Denial will make you feel better, but it doesn't change the truth.

Try not to think of it as "right" or "wrong." And try not to think of this as if some kind of "truth" or "fact" out there ready to be discovered. Human beings has only gone to the moon, and only very few have done so. The rest of us simply sit here on this tiny pixel of rock called Earth in this massive galaxy in a massive universe. Now, a bunch of people claim that they have realized the "truth" and try to have everyone believe it. Should I believe that some tiny pepole on a tiny pixel rock have figured out the "truth?" Perhaps thh tiny people think too highly of themselves. So, I don't think i'm the one who trust my brain too much.

Yeah, btw I definitely missworded my crack against your brain. It wasn't directed at you, but at evolitionists in general (something I perhapse wrongly assume you are). I trust my brain because I believe it was created by a higher power for the purpose of thinking. Thats all I meant by it.

And no I'm not claiming to be any more capable of "figuring out the truth" than you are. I could be wrong. I admit it. But for me, there is a spiritual side to it called faith. Faith is being sure of what you hope for and sure of what you don't see. I don't know, I believe. I know its not scientific, but for the very reasons you pointed out, we can't just trust science can we?

But why do you do it? WHY? Can you ever scientifically explain why you want to help people? And why many others don't....battlefront23

[QUOTE="athgeek"]I was just stating that I believe there is greater happiness in doing what the "higher power" purposes. foxhound_fox

Nope. Its something you have to experience for yourself.

Nope. Its something you have to experience for yourself.athgeek

[QUOTE="athgeek"]Nope. Its something you have to experience for yourself.foxhound_fox

Sorry, I'm a little tired. Can you walk me through this one? I'm not seeing how your conclusion follows.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]But why do you do it? WHY? Can you ever scientifically explain why you want to help people? And why many others don't....foxhound_fox

I want to know how you think... I don't understand why you act good when there is not ultimate reason for doing it... What about evil tyrants such as Hitler Stalin, etc. Did they could a chemical high (i might be understanding this wrong) when they killed people?

Sorry, I'm a little tired. Can you walk me through this one? I'm not seeing how your conclusion follows.athgeek