I Think Tipping is Stupid

Another interesting thing is that, at least in my country but I'm sure in many others, you don't tip at allin a bar if you're just having a drink, or in a coffee shop if you're just having a quick snack. Absolutely no one does that, and no one expects it. So when Americans come here and drop a +15% tip, oh boy do they love it :D

Even in restaurants, when you do tip, you leave like 1-2 euro for a 40-50 euro meal for two, not more.

Someone must've said this already, but when you order some food for take-out, why would you have to pay mandatory fees for a waiter if you don't need one? Why not just tip a waiter if you eat at a restaurant? It's not false advertising because everyone knows about tips, and I doubt that it's a big problem with tourists. There's really no reason to complain about this in my opinion.

You don't have to tip. There have been many celebs that are known not to tip. Lebron, Jordan, Tiger, and others. But dont be surprised if you dont get good service.Diablo-B

Another "I don't like tipping" rant. Yawn.

The only time that rant was in any way interesting was in Resevoir Dogs.

[QUOTE="Addict187"][QUOTE="thegerg"] Hire an English tutor.Dark__Link

thegerg is just being a tiresome cvnt as always, but this comment made me laugh hard.

Compulsury tipping is just an excuse for restaurants to be able to underpay people. Tipping should be a RARE reward for exceptional service, not the status quo.

Storm_Marine

Except waitstaff make significantly more money through tipping than they would on an hourly wage. It also encourages better service. And it also keeps food costs down, making it cheaper for those who dine in restaurants.

Try again.

Don't be cheap. They get payed much lower than minimum wage.

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

Compulsury tipping is just an excuse for restaurants to be able to underpay people. Tipping should be a RARE reward for exceptional service, not the status quo.

Cloud_Insurance

Except waitstaff make significantly more money through tipping than they would on an hourly wage. It also encourages better service. And it also keeps food costs down, making it cheaper for those who dine in restaurants.

Try again.

[QUOTE="Cloud_Insurance"]

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

Compulsury tipping is just an excuse for restaurants to be able to underpay people. Tipping should be a RARE reward for exceptional service, not the status quo.

Laihendi

Except waitstaff make significantly more money through tipping than they would on an hourly wage. It also encourages better service. And it also keeps food costs down, making it cheaper for those who dine in restaurants.

Try again.

I think Cloud is a waiter/waitress hence his/her angry and confrontative "Try again".

Jesus f*cking Christ, enough with these. The current system lets you retain choice. If you incorporated tips into the price, now your food is more expensive and you can't regulate the quality of your service. By withholding tip, you effectively tell the waiter, "you f*cking suck at your job." He'll do better next time, and earn his tip. If tipping was abolished, he does only enough to keep his job, and you have to pay more anyway.Dark__Link

I agree, but in some places isn't tipping like nearly required?

I'm not a fan of tipping either, but Im kind of stuck since it's the expected practice.

I'd rather se waiters be paid a fair wage for their service, without adding tips to meals.

[QUOTE="Cloud_Insurance"]

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

Compulsury tipping is just an excuse for restaurants to be able to underpay people. Tipping should be a RARE reward for exceptional service, not the status quo.

Laihendi

Except waitstaff make significantly more money through tipping than they would on an hourly wage. It also encourages better service. And it also keeps food costs down, making it cheaper for those who dine in restaurants.

Try again.

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] It is an act of moral cowardice to give charity to a stranger,Laihendi

I don't believe in tipping people in restaurants. They get a wage. I don't tip my bus driver or my postman. Why should I tip a waitress? Compulsory tipping is this ridiculous habit that is spreading from America around the world. If you want to add a 10% 'service charge' then simply make the food 10% more expensive. Why not add a 5% 'electricity charge' and a 0.5% 'washing-up liquid charge'? These charges particularly annoy me because they are dishonest. The $10 price you see is actually $11.50. It's false advertising. If the waitress does an exceptional job (is friendly to your kids, makes a real effort to help you with your Vegan diet etc.) then give her some money in cash at the end of the meal. The idea that they are not paid enough so we, and not the restaurant owners, should give them more is absolutely absurd. I am skeptical that they ever actually receive any of the 'service charge' anyway. Tipping cultures are horrible. I hate it when I visit America and I have to tip everyone from the person who drives me to the hotel to the elevator guy. It's f-ing stupid.Addict187

[QUOTE="BuryMe"]

I'm not a fan of tipping either, but Im kind of stuck since it's the expected practice.

I'd rather se waiters be paid a fair wage for their service, without adding tips to meals.

thegerg

[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="BuryMe"]

I'm not a fan of tipping either, but Im kind of stuck since it's the expected practice.

I'd rather se waiters be paid a fair wage for their service, without adding tips to meals.

BuryMe

In the tipping system, you control quality of service. Bad service? Small tip. Great service? Big tip. Server just did their job and nothing more? Regular tip (basically the amount the food prices would go up by without the tipping system).

In the no-tipping system, you can't control the quality of service. Bad service? Tough sh*t, you pay full amount. Great service? Tough sh*t for the server, he gets the normal amount.

So, if both systems see you paying the same amount (on average, obviously not case-by-case), then why would you pick the option that doesn't let you control the quality of the service?

The ONLY person who benefits from a no-tipping system is the waiter who does the bare minimum to keep his job.

[QUOTE="BuryMe"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] You'd see cost added to meals, why does it matter if that cost is called "tip"?Dark__Link

On average, you pay the same amount whether you're tipping or paying more for the meal (to pay the server a fair wage). In the tipping system, you control quality of service. Bad service? Small tip. Great service? Big tip. Server just did their job and nothing more? Regular tip (basically the amount the food prices would go up by without the tipping system). In the no-tipping system, you can't control the quality of service. Bad service? Tough sh*t, you pay full amount. Great service? Tough sh*t for the server, he gets the normal amount. So, if both systems see you paying the same amount (on average, obviously not case-by-case), then why would you pick the option that doesn't let you control the quality of the service?Dark__Link

You aren't controlling the quality of the sevice. The service has already been rendered by the time you are supposed to tip.

And since a tip of 15% has become the expected norm, tipping any less generally just makes you look cheap, even if the waiter as bad.And worst, it's not uncommon for people to tip for bad service simply because they feel society compells them to.

If tipping wasn't expected the way it seems to be today, I would be more inclined to agree. But since tipping is the expected norm, it doesn't accomplish what people often credit it with (namely, improving service.)

Until that happens, I'd rather see waiters be paid a fair wage for their services, and bad employees should simply be let go.

[QUOTE="Cloud_Insurance"]

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

Except waitstaff make significantly more money through tipping than they would on an hourly wage. It also encourages better service. And it also keeps food costs down, making it cheaper for those who dine in restaurants.

Try again.

Laihendi

No it isn't a bad argument. If a restaurant owner/operator had to pay his waitstaff a liveable wage and tips were not an option that money would come entirely from the sales of food and drinks. Food and drink prices would increase to offset the higher cost to employ waitstaff. Really a pretty basic concept to grasp.

In this instance, the service the waitstaff provides comes at a price dictated by the restaurant, its a fixed cost. The employer could set it at 10 dollars an hour for example. An employee has no incentive to work any harder than is required to keep his job in this case, because they are getting paid the same regardless of how well they perform their job.

But if tipping is an option, then the owner can lower the hourly rate offered to his waitstaff, which also allows him to lower the cost of his food and drink. The employees will settle for a lower hourly wage because the decrease in hourly wage will be offset by tips earned. The waitstaff has an incentive to work hard, as the tips they earn depend on their job performance.

Customers should embrace the tipping system because they see benefit through lower food costs and ideally better service. In addition to this, it gives the customer the freedom to pay what they think is appropriate for services rendered by the waitstaff.

As I have mentioned numerous times in this thread you are failing to understand that a restaurant provides a GOOD and a SERVICE. Food prices don't change if you choose to eat out as opposed to dining in. If you choose to dine at the restaurant, you are utilizing a service. That service is worth what you deem it to be through the use of tips.

If you choose not to tip in an area where it is a societal norm you are either too dumb to understand the concept or you are cheap.

I think Cloud is a waiter/waitress hence his/her angry and confrontative "Try again".

Storm_Marine

Oh look, its another poster that makes an idiotic post/rant and when confronted and proven to be wrong chooses instead to insult others as opposed to responding to the evidence demonstrates his stupidity.

And no I don't wait tables, that would be quite disappointing after having attended college for 6 years.

Waitstaff make less than minimum wage. They're relying on your tips to survive. Only a complete scumbag doesn't tip.

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"]On average, you pay the same amount whether you're tipping or paying more for the meal (to pay the server a fair wage). In the tipping system, you control quality of service. Bad service? Small tip. Great service? Big tip. Server just did their job and nothing more? Regular tip (basically the amount the food prices would go up by without the tipping system). In the no-tipping system, you can't control the quality of service. Bad service? Tough sh*t, you pay full amount. Great service? Tough sh*t for the server, he gets the normal amount. So, if both systems see you paying the same amount (on average, obviously not case-by-case), then why would you pick the option that doesn't let you control the quality of the service?BuryMe

You aren't controlling the quality of the sevice. The service has already been rendered by the time you are supposed to tip.

And since a tip of 15% has become the expected norm, tipping any less generally just makes you look cheap, even if the waiter as bad.And worst, it's not uncommon for people to tip for bad service simply because they feel society compells them to.

If tipping wasn't expected the way it seems to be today, I would be more inclined to agree. But since tipping is the expected norm, it doesn't accomplish what people often credit it with (namely, improving service.)

Until that happens, I'd rather see waiters be paid a fair wage for their services, and bad employees should simply be let go.

Waitstaff make less than minimum wage. They're relying on your tips to survive. Only a complete scumbag doesn't tip.

bigfoot2045

That's not 100% true...In CA they make $8.00 all the way up to $10.55..It depends on where you live..CA doesn't do any form of tip credit to the employer...

im not saying thats enough...just the waitstaff make less than Min wage

You aren't controlling the quality right then and there, no, but you are controlling future quality. Waiter gets a big tip, he'll know he did something well, and he'll do it again. It's just conditioning, but that's how it works. As for the rest of your post... tipping really should be expected, because after all, you're paying for the service. When the bill comes, the amount stated is NOT to pay for your service. It's to pay for your food. But you're expected to pay for both the service and the food. So a basic 10-15% tip SHOULD be expected for so-so service because you're just paying for the service itself. Take some away, or add more depending on how they did beyond that.Dark__Link

Tipping 15 % is expected in just about every case. More often than not, if you don't tip, you're just seen as cheap, even if the service wasn't great. When something gets to that point, it no longer influences the person's service. Since tipping has gotten to that point, I think it just makes more sense to add the fee to the price of the food and simply pay the waiters a fair wage directly.

This topic sounds oddly familiar.

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"][QUOTE="BuryMe"]I'd rather see the cost added to the cost of the meal than have it added in after you get the bill.

LJS9502_basic

That only works if you only tip for outstanding service. If you tip automatically, like most people in this board seem to do, simply because they're providing you a service, then no it does not provide an incentive. The opposite happens. Tipping just gets you "normal" behavior, and not tipping gets you subpar behavior.

Like I explained a couple of pages back, I believe the best system is to include in the bill the price for everything, meal and service, and tipping is only for rewarding outstanding service. If tipping is both being used to pay for the service and as a reward for good service, it becomes messy. I understand this may be difficult to do in countries such as the US because the transition would likely raise prices. But it is a better system.

I live in a country where tipping is not expected. Most people don't tip. And yet customer service in restaurants is usually very good. If you do tip you get even better treatment (maybe) but even if you don't tip, most people are very nice to you. Someone here was asking, what will you do in such a system if a waiter is rude? Very easy, EVERY restaurant needs to have a mandatory complaints book. Just ask for the complaints book. They'll practically beg you not to as it can be bad both for the restaurant and for the waiter. Or go to another restaurant. There are so MANY restaurants to choose from, they just can't afford to be rude to you. The system works. Minimum wage is the same for every type of job, including waiters, so being a waiter is just another, they don't necessarily expect to be tipped. You only tip for outstanding service. That provides the right incentive.

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"]You aren't controlling the quality right then and there, no, but you are controlling future quality. Waiter gets a big tip, he'll know he did something well, and he'll do it again. It's just conditioning, but that's how it works. As for the rest of your post... tipping really should be expected, because after all, you're paying for the service. When the bill comes, the amount stated is NOT to pay for your service. It's to pay for your food. But you're expected to pay for both the service and the food. So a basic 10-15% tip SHOULD be expected for so-so service because you're just paying for the service itself. Take some away, or add more depending on how they did beyond that.BuryMe

Tipping 15 % is expected in just about every case. More often than not, if you don't tip, you're just seen as cheap, even if the service wasn't great. When something gets to that point, it no longer influences the person's service. Since tipping has gotten to that point, I think it just makes more sense to add the fee to the price of the food and simply pay the waiters a fair wage directly.

This

The problem I see with systems that rely heavily on tipping, is that you're paying for the service and rewarding great service. It becomes messy.

[QUOTE="BuryMe"]

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"]You aren't controlling the quality right then and there, no, but you are controlling future quality. Waiter gets a big tip, he'll know he did something well, and he'll do it again. It's just conditioning, but that's how it works. As for the rest of your post... tipping really should be expected, because after all, you're paying for the service. When the bill comes, the amount stated is NOT to pay for your service. It's to pay for your food. But you're expected to pay for both the service and the food. So a basic 10-15% tip SHOULD be expected for so-so service because you're just paying for the service itself. Take some away, or add more depending on how they did beyond that.nunovlopes

Tipping 15 % is expected in just about every case. More often than not, if you don't tip, you're just seen as cheap, even if the service wasn't great. When something gets to that point, it no longer influences the person's service. Since tipping has gotten to that point, I think it just makes more sense to add the fee to the price of the food and simply pay the waiters a fair wage directly.

This

The problem I see with systems that rely heavily on tipping, is that you're paying for the service and rewarding great service. It becomes messy.

If I order a cheap meal, 15% is going to be less than if I'd ordered the steak. But the fact that I'd wanted the cheap meal that night doesn't mean the waiter was providing lesser service, it just means I wasn't all that hungry.

If tipping really is just about getting good service, then the amount we tip shouldn't be dependant on the price of our meal.

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

[QUOTE="BuryMe"]

Tipping 15 % is expected in just about every case. More often than not, if you don't tip, you're just seen as cheap, even if the service wasn't great. When something gets to that point, it no longer influences the person's service. Since tipping has gotten to that point, I think it just makes more sense to add the fee to the price of the food and simply pay the waiters a fair wage directly.

BuryMe

This

The problem I see with systems that rely heavily on tipping, is that you're paying for the service and rewarding great service. It becomes messy.

If I order a cheap meal, 15% is going to be less than if I'd ordered the steak. But the fact that I'd wanted the cheap meal that night doesn't mean the waiter was providing lesser service, it just means I wasn't all that hungry.

If tipping really is just about getting good service, then the amount we tip shouldn't be dependant on the price of our meal.

That's a good point. I agree.

"Expected" tipping is stupid. Might as well add the service charge to the bill. Just don't give me the illusion that it's my choice when there's clearly a stigma against not doing it. If they did an outstanding job then sure I'll reward them beyond the service charge for the extra effort. Otherwise standard tipping just becomes a meaningless gesture.

TC if you want tipping to go away you should get everyone to stop tipping. Then meal costs can go up, and we can all just automatically pay more for a service that may or may not be any good.

Then you can be happy.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Interesting point, though I disagree with the part about not paying for a service provided to me. I pay for the food. I didn't hire a waiter, so I don't owe him anything. He is offering his service to his employer (who needs waiters for his restaurant to function), he has a contract with his employer, and therefore it is his employer who is obligated to pay him, unless the restaurant explicitly states that customers must tip.MrGeezer

@LJS - Please let me know if you actually have a rebuttal.

What i don't get is when others say you have to tip or you get bad service. If I do a bad job at my work i would not have a job for long. Why dose the rule not apply to waiting staff. I just got back from a fancy dinner $40 per plate ( with littel food on them) the staff were slow never refilled my drinks wihout me asking then rolled there eyes when asked. food was over cooked. And still to my amazment the gruop I was with left $50 tip. This is in canada no less were waite staff get the min wage $10h. (Blows my minde) this atomatic tipping has got to stop. They made me out to be an **** for not throwing down a $10 tip. Addict187

I hope you cheap bastards who don't tip like body fluids in your meal.

If you're too much of a cheapskate to tip, don't eat out. Eating out is a luxury. Seriously, if you can't cough up a few bucks, stick to buying groceries.