[QUOTE="Addict187"]I have never seen anyone tip a casher at a supermarket. they ring your food for you and even bag it, get paid min wage and know one cares. they work there buts off becuse the manger or owner are to cheep to bring in more staff. No tips for them? but the girl who fills drinks and brings food to tabel are specal they require more money for some reason thegergHire an English tutor. I will get right on that
I Think Tipping is Stupid
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I have never seen anyone tip a casher at a supermarket. they ring your food for you and even bag it, get paid min wage and know one cares. they work there buts off becuse the manger or owner are to cheep to bring in more staff. No tips for them? but the girl who fills drinks and brings food to tabel are specal they require more money for some reason Addict187Waiters make less money than the cashier at the store......if you're going to spout off about a subject please educate yourself first.
[QUOTE="Addict187"]I have never seen anyone tip a casher at a supermarket. they ring your food for you and even bag it, get paid min wage and know one cares. they work there buts off becuse the manger or owner are to cheep to bring in more staff. No tips for them? but the girl who fills drinks and brings food to tabel are specal they require more money for some reason LJS9502_basicWaiters make less money than the cashier at the store......if you're going to spout off about a subject please educate yourself first. no they don't go read US min wage laws. My lord it works like this if the tips do not equal min wage at the end of the shift the emplyer has to pay them the rest = min wage. Simpel if you don't tip them there boss has to pay them.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Addict187"]I have never seen anyone tip a casher at a supermarket. they ring your food for you and even bag it, get paid min wage and know one cares. they work there buts off becuse the manger or owner are to cheep to bring in more staff. No tips for them? but the girl who fills drinks and brings food to tabel are specal they require more money for some reason Addict187Waiters make less money than the cashier at the store......if you're going to spout off about a subject please educate yourself first. no they don't go read US min wage laws. My lord it works like this if the tips do not equal min wage at the end of the shift the emplyer has to pay them the rest = min wage. Simpel if you don't tip them there boss has to pay them.Yes...yes they do. Jobs that receive tips are paid less by their employers. It's posted right in the minimum wage law......you're stiffing someone out of a tip isn't going to do anything but pay them less. And if the employer has to keep making payments for their employees the food prices WILL RISE. Which you are clearly not getting.
I hate it too. I will just reach back and get my own food.
I'm curious what all the cheap individuals in this thread would do if they cost of food rose to remove minimum wage.LJS9502_basicChances are that they'd just stop eating there. That's the BS thing about this. Society's collective agreement to tip is what keeps prices down. Meanwhile, these people are happy to benefit from the low prices without chipping in a damn thing to contribute. But if the prices were to go up, they just wouldn't go to that restaurant at all. They're nothing but freeloaders, hitching a free ride on the backs of everyone else without contributing anything in return. Social parasites, basically.
What i don't get is when others say you have to tip or you get bad service. If I do a bad job at my work i would not have a job for long. Why dose the rule not apply to waiting staff. I just got back from a fancy dinner $40 per plate ( with littel food on them) the staff were slow never refilled my drinks wihout me asking then rolled there eyes when asked. food was over cooked. And still to my amazment the gruop I was with left $50 tip. This is in canada no less were waite staff get the min wage $10h. (Blows my minde) this atomatic tipping has got to stop. They made me out to be an **** for not throwing down a $10 tip. Addict187I don't know where in Canada you live, but miimum wage for waiters is substantially lower than the normal minimum wage.
And since minimum in $10.25 in Ontario, and I'm pretty sure we have the highest, I'm gonna call bull on your waiters earning $10/h as a base.
I live in the US. A waiter is providing his employer with a service, not me. The employer needs the waiter for his restaurant to operate. That is why he hired the waiter. The employer is therefore responsible for the waiter's payment. The employer uses his revenues to pay his employees. When I go to a restaurant, I go for food. Therefore I buy the food. I don't go so that I may be waited on, therefore I do not hire a waiter to serve me. The employer hired to waiter to serve me so that he would have my business.Yes, he's providing you with a service. He's your server, he spends the time serving you. You know this before you walked into the restaurant. And if you didn't, then you know it now because I'm telling you. You didn't have to go to a sit-down restaurant, you also could have gotten your food to go so that the server doesn't have to waste his time serving you without getting paid. You made a deliberate decision to have that service performed for you, and if you choose to not pay for it then don't complain when people call you out on it.@LJS - Please let me know if you actually have a rebuttal.
Laihendi
I live in the US. A waiter is providing his employer with a service, not me. The employer needs the waiter for his restaurant to operate. That is why he hired the waiter. The employer is therefore responsible for the waiter's payment. The employer uses his revenues to pay his employees. When I go to a restaurant, I go for food. Therefore I buy the food. I don't go so that I may be waited on, therefore I do not hire a waiter to serve me. The employer hired to waiter to serve me so that he would have my business.Bull.@LJS - Please let me know if you actually have a rebuttal.
Laihendi
If you didn't go to be waited on, you could ask for the food to go. Then take it home an eat it, refill your own drinks and clean up after your self.
When you sit down in a restaurant, you are asking to be waited on. So are asking for a service. So pay for it.
I live in the US. A waiter is providing his employer with a service, not me. The employer needs the waiter for his restaurant to operate. That is why he hired the waiter. The employer is therefore responsible for the waiter's payment. The employer uses his revenues to pay his employees. When I go to a restaurant, I go for food. Therefore I buy the food. I don't go so that I may be waited on, therefore I do not hire a waiter to serve me. The employer hired to waiter to serve me so that he would have my business.Rebuttal to what? Your silly premise? If you don't want to tip a waiter....get the food to go. It's that simple. But when someone provides a service for you...you pay. Period.@LJS - Please let me know if you actually have a rebuttal.
Laihendi
I've been eyeballing this thread title for several days thinking the whole time it was about cow tipping and thinking "nuh-uh, not going in there."
I feel a bit silly now.
[QUOTE="Laihendi"] I live in the US. A waiter is providing his employer with a service, not me. The employer needs the waiter for his restaurant to operate. That is why he hired the waiter. The employer is therefore responsible for the waiter's payment. The employer uses his revenues to pay his employees. When I go to a restaurant, I go for food. Therefore I buy the food. I don't go so that I may be waited on, therefore I do not hire a waiter to serve me. The employer hired to waiter to serve me so that he would have my business.Yes, he's providing you with a service. He's your server, he spends the time serving you. You know this before you walked into the restaurant. And if you didn't, then you know it now because I'm telling you. You didn't have to go to a sit-down restaurant, you also could have gotten your food to go so that the server doesn't have to waste his time serving you without getting paid. You made a deliberate decision to have that service performed for you, and if you choose to not pay for it then don't complain when people call you out on it.It is the business of a restaurant to provide customers with food and a location to eat it. The restaurant needs waiters in order to do this. The restaurant owner hires the waiter so that it is possible for him to do business. The waiter is providing his employer with a service by offering to wait on his customers, the employer is offering the customer his waiter so that he may do business with the customer. The waiter is employed by the restaurant owner, therefore it is the responsibility of the restaurant owner to pay him.@LJS - Please let me know if you actually have a rebuttal.
MrGeezer
Tipping is fine but I get annoyed when it's automatically applied to my bill. They're supposed to earn their tip and not have it automatically there.
Waiters makes less than $3.00 an hour. Tip you jerk. I usually tip 25% of my meal cost.. caseypayne69...and I assure you, any decent server greatly values your presence in their restaurant. I work my ass off for each and every one of my guests, attempting to ensure I do every little thing I can for them. Anyone who tips poorly should really try getting a job as server for any substantial amount of time. If you're doing your job right, it's not "something a monkey could do" by any means.
Good service deserves a good tip, and poor service deserves a poor tip. No tip is essentially theft. At my restaurant, 3% of our total sales is deducted from our tips automatically in order to pay the bar, table tenders, and the hosts. If a table stiffs me on the check, or tips very poorly, I'm actually losing money on a table I might have served for an hour.
The thing about people that don't tip is that many of them have to rant about it in an attempt to justify their behavior.
I mean, go ahead and don't tip if you don't want to. But there's also no need to rant just because you feel guilty and want people to tell you that not tipping is okay. If you feel that insecure, you probably should just tip.
I would think they feel the need to explain themselves because they realize tipping is seen as the norm and if they don't tip people are naturally going to question why.The thing about people that don't tip is that many of them have to rant about it in an attempt to justify their behavior.
I mean, go ahead and don't tip if you don't want to. But there's also no need to rant just because you feel guilty and want people to tell you that not tipping is okay. If you feel that insecure, you probably should just tip.
GreySeal9
I'll add a bit of an addendum to this. Let's say a guy is out with his friends at a restaurant and they've decided they're going to split the bill and the tip. The guy's time comes to contribute a tip and he refuses because he doesn't tip. If his friends are cool with it and don't ask why yet he still delivers an unprompted diatribe on why he doesn't believe in tipping, that would come off as a bit strange. So in that case, I would agree with you.
As far as this thread goes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with someone explaining why they don't tip. Because, well, the thread is about the merits of tipping and your personal beliefs on the subject.
[QUOTE="Laihendi"]It is the business of a restaurant to provide customers with food and a location to eat it. The restaurant needs waiters in order to do this. The restaurant owner hires the waiter so that it is possible for him to do business. The waiter is providing his employer with a service by offering to wait on his customers, the employer is offering the customer his waiter so that he may do business with the customer. The waiter is employed by the restaurant owner, therefore it is the responsibility of the restaurant owner to pay him.MrGeezerAgain, all you're doing now is saying that you disagree with how things are run. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but that doesn't negate YOUR responsibility. You do agree that people should get paid for working, yes? Well tips ARE payment for work. That's how it works, period. You can think that shouldn't be the case, but it IS the case and you know it. If you have such a problem with that, then don't get served by waiters and then refuse to pay them. You have no f***ing excuse. Dining out as restaurants is a luxury. You CHOOSE to go there and do it, that's entirely on you. No one put a gun to your head and made you dine out at those places, if you had such a big freaking problem with how they were run, then you wouldn't go there AT ALL. Again, like I said before, other people generally tip. Most people tip. Even cheapskates usually tip. Because while they might not tip well, at least they recognize the basic concept of "you have a service performed for you, then you freaking pay for it." I don't even have a problem with poor tippers, you're the particularly rare breed of person who doesn't tip at all. Oh, you have no problem benefitting from the low prices that are only there as a result of tips, but the second that it's your time to contribute you just go "well, no one's forcing me to pay, so I'm just not going to." That's just parasitic behavior. And you're damn well correct that that kind of behavior is stigmatized, because you're getting a free ride on the backs of everyone else and then acting as if it's THEIR fault when it was YOU who chose to seek out that service in the first place. Like I said before...if you don't want to tip, then don't tip. No one's forcing you. But don't try to justify that, because it DOES make you look like a scumbag. It's ALWAYS going to make you look like a scumbag for as long as you do it, because that kind of behavior is indefensible. And the fact that you are trying to convince people that you're in the right is simply f***ing pathetic. Tip or don't tip, I don't care. But seeking out a service, refusing to pay for it, and then trying to pass yourself off as an innocent victim is total bull$***. If you're gonna eat out at those kinds of restaurants and then refuse to tip just because tips are voluntary, then at least have the balls to admit that you know it's wrong but you do it anyway because it's cheaper for you. The fact that you're even TRYING to defend that action and make it seem as if you aren't the one who's being a jerk either indicates that you were raised by wolves and have no concept of how social interaction works, or that you think that everyone else in the world is stupid enough to fall for your kindergarten level BS. Don't like the system, fine. Don't go there and have people wait on you. But the decision to be waited on by a server or bartender is ENTIRELY your choice. Not anyone else's. You know how the system DOES work, and if you had any kind of real moral objection to it then you wouldn't be going to those places at all. The second that you DO go to those places and let a waiter serve you, you're agreeing to the implicit contract. At that point, it's way too late to try to weasel yourself out of it with some kind of childish BS about how the system is screwed up. F*** that...you have no problem utilizing that same system in order to get a deal, so throw the excuses in a ditch. You get the same low menu prices as everyone else...the thing is that everyone else tips while you don't. If they freaking pay, then you can pay too instead of riding on their money and benefitting without contributing anything. If it's such a bad system, then stop getting an easy ride on the backs of the people who actually contribute.
lol, Laihendi just got sonned into oblivion.
Tipping is some straight bull****. I don't tip, and people always tell me it looks bad but honestly I dont give a damn. JJ_Productions+1 to this. Not tipping is bull$***, but at least you aren't trying to justify it and act as if you're the victim. If you don't want to tip, then don't tip. But at least admit that you just plain don't give a $***, instead of insulting everyone else's intelligence by trying to defend it.
I would think they feel the need to explain themselves because they realize tipping is seen as the norm and if they don't tip people are naturally going to question why.Here's the thing, though. Collectively, as a group, they all paid the same menu prices (obviously they didn't all get the same thing, but the point still stands...menu prices are what they are because of tips, and everyone there benefited from lower food/drink costs because of the tipping system). Bottom line...everyone reaps the benefits of tips when they order the food/drink. Then it comes time for tipout. Everyone throws their money on the table, paying what they think is appropriate compensation for the service. Everyone puts money on the table, except for one dude. People are like, "uh...dude, you didn't tip." He then says "I know, I don't tip. Just a general principle of mine." You SERIOUSLY don't see why people have a problem with that? I mean...really? It's not even that his tip sucks, it's that on basic principle, he refuses to pay for the service that was provided to him. Yes, that's going to piss off the other people in the group. Because then they'll either have to pay his share in order to compensate for him being a cheap-ass piece of $***, or they're gonna have to see that he was leeching off of THEIR contribution and using the fact that the rest of the group tipped as an excuse to get out of doing it himself. That's the equivalent of the guy who always shows up when people smoke weed, and somehow never actually ends up paying for it. You're damn right people have a problem with "that guy", because that guy is literally leeching off of their contributions in order to make things easier for himself. He never gives, all he does is take. And the only reason he gets away with it is because of everyone else covering for his ass.I'll add a bit of an addendum to this. Let's say a guy is out with his friends at a restaurant and they've decided they're going to split the bill and the tip. The guy's time comes to contribute a tip and he refuses because he doesn't tip. If his friends are cool with it and don't ask why yet he still delivers an unprompted diatribe on why he doesn't believe in tipping, that would come off as a bit strange. So in that case, I would agree with you.
As far as this thread goes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with someone explaining why they don't tip. Because, well, the thread is about the merits of tipping and your personal beliefs on the subject.
zcake22
[QUOTE="zcake22"]I would think they feel the need to explain themselves because they realize tipping is seen as the norm and if they don't tip people are naturally going to question why.Here's the thing, though. Collectively, as a group, they all paid the same menu prices (obviously they didn't all get the same thing, but the point still stands...menu prices are what they are because of tips, and everyone there benefited from lower food/drink costs because of the tipping system). Bottom line...everyone reaps the benefits of tips when they order the food/drink. Then it comes time for tipout. Everyone throws their money on the table, paying what they think is appropriate compensation for the service. Everyone puts money on the table, except for one dude. People are like, "uh...dude, you didn't tip." He then says "I know, I don't tip. Just a general principle of mine." You SERIOUSLY don't see why people have a problem with that? I mean...really? It's not even that his tip sucks, it's that on basic principle, he refuses to pay for the service that was provided to him. Yes, that's going to piss off the other people in the group. Because then they'll either have to pay his share in order to compensate for him being a cheap-ass piece of $***, or they're gonna have to see that he was leeching off of THEIR contribution and using the fact that the rest of the group tipped as an excuse to get out of doing it himself. That's the equivalent of the guy who always shows up when people smoke weed, and somehow never actually ends up paying for it. You're damn right people have a problem with "that guy", because that guy is literally leeching off of their contributions in order to make things easier for himself. He never gives, all he does is take. And the only reason he gets away with it is because of everyone else covering for his ass. Apparently I used a bad example because you're responding with an entirely different argument. My point was meant to be that when you don't tip, it's very likely someone is going to ask why you don't tip, thus the need to explain oneself. But if you're caught in a situation in which no one has asked why you don't tip yet you still launch into an unneeded monologue on why you don't tip, it's going to make you look like a preachy windbag and would support the statement made by GreySeal.I'll add a bit of an addendum to this. Let's say a guy is out with his friends at a restaurant and they've decided they're going to split the bill and the tip. The guy's time comes to contribute a tip and he refuses because he doesn't tip. If his friends are cool with it and don't ask why yet he still delivers an unprompted diatribe on why he doesn't believe in tipping, that would come off as a bit strange. So in that case, I would agree with you.
As far as this thread goes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with someone explaining why they don't tip. Because, well, the thread is about the merits of tipping and your personal beliefs on the subject.
MrGeezer
Apparently I used a bad example because you're responding with an entirely different argument. My point was meant to be that when you don't tip, it's very likely someone is going to ask why you don't tip, thus the need to explain oneself. But if you're caught in a situation in which no one has asked why you don't tip yet you still launch into an unneeded monologue on why you don't tip, it's going to make you look like a preachy windbag and would support the statement made by GreySeal.zcake22I know. My point was just...it's really not sometrhing that someone can justify with an explanation, at least not while they continue to do it. No one's ignorant enough to not know how the system works, which makes the default explanation to be something like, "I just don't believe in tipping." And that's not really defensible, sense if they really didn't believe in it then they'd stop getting themselves in situations that warrant tipping. If you don't tip and someone asks why you don't tip, then chances are that you're already in a situation in which you should be tipping. At that point, you can explain your reasons however you like. Just be aware that those reasons are not going to be a defense for your actions, so don't try to defend yourself.
[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] My finances are none of your business.LaihendiThen why do you feel the need to post comment after comment about them? I haven't. I have posted comment after comment about the immorality of altruism, self-sacrifice, theft, etc. Babby's first Ayn Rand novel. :lol:
They should ask more from their boss,not us.MonsieurXin which the customer still has to pay more.
We rant becuse it has become a problem, good or bad service most atomaticly tip telling the wait staff even if they half ass there job. they will still get tips. They have everone traind like sheep.The thing about people that don't tip is that many of them have to rant about it in an attempt to justify their behavior.
I mean, go ahead and don't tip if you don't want to. But there's also no need to rant just because you feel guilty and want people to tell you that not tipping is okay. If you feel that insecure, you probably should just tip.
GreySeal9
I don't like how tipping has become expected. In fact I hate tipping, but I still do it because I'm classy like that and hate being "that guy"
[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]We rant becuse it has become a problem, good or bad service most atomaticly tip telling the wait staff even if they half ass there job. they will still get tips. They have everone traind like sheep. No. No, tipping is optional. Bad service? Don't tip, or leave a small one. You'll encourage the workers to work harder for better tips.The thing about people that don't tip is that many of them have to rant about it in an attempt to justify their behavior.
I mean, go ahead and don't tip if you don't want to. But there's also no need to rant just because you feel guilty and want people to tell you that not tipping is okay. If you feel that insecure, you probably should just tip.
Addict187
In China, people get pissed off when you try to tip them. They don't want to be treated like beggars. So what say you now American service folk? If you gonna beg, get on ya knees first.SolidSnake35
The problem with this board is that people don't seem to grasp that other countries do it differently. Hence all the comments "if you don't tip you're being cheap".
[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]We rant becuse it has become a problem, good or bad service most atomaticly tip telling the wait staff even if they half ass there job. they will still get tips. They have everone traind like sheep.The thing about people that don't tip is that many of them have to rant about it in an attempt to justify their behavior.
I mean, go ahead and don't tip if you don't want to. But there's also no need to rant just because you feel guilty and want people to tell you that not tipping is okay. If you feel that insecure, you probably should just tip.
Addict187
No, it has not become a problem. You just don't like tipping for whatever reason.
[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]In China, people get pissed off when you try to tip them. They don't want to be treated like beggars. So what say you now American service folk? If you gonna beg, get on ya knees first.nunovlopes
The problem with this board is that people don't seem to grasp that other countries do it differently. Hence all the comments "if you don't tip you're being cheap".
I lve in the U.K. and I think that people that don't tip for good service are cheap as hell.
[QUOTE="Addict187"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]We rant becuse it has become a problem, good or bad service most atomaticly tip telling the wait staff even if they half ass there job. they will still get tips. They have everone traind like sheep. No. No, tipping is optional. Bad service? Don't tip, or leave a small one. You'll encourage the workers to work harder for better tips.The thing about people that don't tip is that many of them have to rant about it in an attempt to justify their behavior.
I mean, go ahead and don't tip if you don't want to. But there's also no need to rant just because you feel guilty and want people to tell you that not tipping is okay. If you feel that insecure, you probably should just tip.
chrisrooR
In societies where tipping is both used as payment for service and as a reward, it doesn't work that way. People just end up tipping automatically because it's payment for a service provided. Just by looking at this topic you see that different people do it differently (different percentages), with people even saying they automatically tip because society says so, and other people saying they tip because they don't want to risk getting something nasty on their food (maybe it doesn't happen, but clearly there are people that are conditioned by it). So tipping becomes something waiters feel they're entitled to, regardless of quality of service.
You say "bad service, no tip". I say "standard service, no tip". Tipping should be for outstanding service only, and the customer's discretion. Of course, this is only doable if waiters make standard minimum wage at least, so that they're like every other worker.
[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]
[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]In China, people get pissed off when you try to tip them. They don't want to be treated like beggars. So what say you now American service folk? If you gonna beg, get on ya knees first.tenaka2
The problem with this board is that people don't seem to grasp that other countries do it differently. Hence all the comments "if you don't tip you're being cheap".
I lve in the U.K. and I think that people that don't tip for good service are cheap as hell.
Well I don't live in the UK, I live in Portugal where tipping is not a common practice. Like I said, generic comments such as"if you don't tip you're being cheap" are dumb. I see waiters as any other worker. I don't tip cashiers at the supermarket or people that cut my hair either. I remember once many years ago tipping the guy who cut my hair because I especially liked the service, the guy looked at me like I was weird or something.
I would tip in the UK and US and other countries where it's socially expected though.
You tip because their wages are horrible in comparison to other wage jobs. It's understood that waiters are suppose to get a great deal of their cash from the folks they serve; very much the same way exotic dancers get a great deal of their money from the people they dance for. It's just a custom.thebest31406That's the funniest argument I've ever heard
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