I was in a debate with a creationist yesterday....

No, but it does mean "thou shalt not kill" can be warped by greedy men into "Thou shalt kill when thou wilt."

What I meant by Christianity justifying the Crusades is that the pope said "God wills it!" When in fact Man wills it. It is actually a form of blasphomey.

It implies that there is a major flaw in humanity.

Dracargen

How do you know what God wills and what he doesn't? You claim that that the Pope, and all of those who followed the Pope misinterpreted what the Bible says, but they are reading the same thing you are. What makes you think that your interpretation is correct and there interpretation is incorrect?

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

No, but it does mean "thou shalt not kill" can be warped by greedy men into "Thou shalt kill when thou wilt."

What I meant by Christianity justifying the Crusades is that the pope said "God wills it!" When in fact Man wills it. It is actually a form of blasphomey.

It implies that there is a major flaw in humanity.

Decessus

How do you know what God wills and what he doesn't? You claim that that the Pope, and all of those who followed the Pope misinterpreted what the Bible says, but they are reading the same thing you are. What makes you think that your interpretation is correct and there interpretation is incorrect?

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

No, but it does mean "thou shalt not kill" can be warped by greedy men into "Thou shalt kill when thou wilt."

What I meant by Christianity justifying the Crusades is that the pope said "God wills it!" When in fact Man wills it. It is actually a form of blasphomey.

It implies that there is a major flaw in humanity.

Decessus

How do you know what God wills and what he doesn't? You claim that that the Pope, and all of those who followed the Pope misinterpreted what the Bible says, but they are reading the same thing you are. What makes you think that your interpretation is correct and there interpretation is incorrect?

Jesus flat-out tells people what He wills in the Bible.:|

As for my interpretations, who said I thought it was correct? Frankly, I don't think any interpretation is correct. When we die, God'll tell us all "Hey, you were right on this point, but you were WAY off on this one."

It's really the best we can do, considering the Bible was written a long time ago.

[QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

That's one commandment, not ten. Again.....answer my question.

verparanoidpers

You obviously do not understand Christianity.

You cannot pick one commandment to not follow and follow all the others.

Unless, of course, God deemed it no longer necessary.;)

Jesus also added to the Ten Commandments. If you hate somebody, then that is equivalent to murder. If you lust for a woman when you already are engaging in a relationship, then that is equivalent to adultery. Technically, the Ten Commandments from the OT do not matter as much as the Commandments from Christ.

Earlier you said the pope is the figurehead of Christianity. That is wrong on as many levels as possible. Jesus is the figurehead of Christianity; Nobody else.

Until the Reformation, the Pope was the spiritual leader of Christianity.

The Bible may not specificially mention the Pope, but there are certainly numerous spirtiual leaders throughout the Bible. What is the Pope except another spiritual leader?

[QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

That's one commandment, not ten. Again.....answer my question.

Dracargen

You obviously do not understand Christianity.

You cannot pick one commandment to not follow and follow all the others.

Unless, of course, God deemed it no longer necessary.;)

Jesus also added to the Ten Commandments. If you hate somebody, then that is equivalent to murder. If you lust for a woman when you already are engaging in a relationship, then that is equivalent to adultery. Technically, the Ten Commandments from the OT do not matter as much as the Commandments from Christ.

Earlier you said the pope is the figurehead of Christianity. That is wrong on as many levels as possible. Jesus is the figurehead of Christianity; Nobody else.

Until the Reformation, the Pope was the spiritual leader of Christianity.

Uh-huh. How does that make him the figurehead of Christianity?

1) God

2) Jesus

3) Pope (God's Messenger on Earth)

[QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

No, but it does mean "thou shalt not kill" can be warped by greedy men into "Thou shalt kill when thou wilt."

What I meant by Christianity justifying the Crusades is that the pope said "God wills it!" When in fact Man wills it. It is actually a form of blasphomey.

It implies that there is a major flaw in humanity.

verparanoidpers

How do you know what God wills and what he doesn't? You claim that that the Pope, and all of those who followed the Pope misinterpreted what the Bible says, but they are reading the same thing you are. What makes you think that your interpretation is correct and there interpretation is incorrect?

That's why it's an interpretation, hence not directly stated.

[QUOTE="helium_flash"]

The Crusades, the Holocaust, ect. :|

Dracargen

Niether of those were religious.:|

The Crusades were made in order to gain land that people wanted.

The holocaust. . . .wait, how in hell was the holocaust caused by religion?

The Crusades were justified to the european people and called for by the pope (Urban II I believe) for the purpose of killing the infidels. Granted I don't think that was the real reason (Urban wanted to get the europeans to stop killing one another) but people bought into it for religious reasons, and people went, not only because of religious justification, but because the pope promised that all people that fought in the crusades would be forgiven of their sins.

While I agree the Holocaust wasn't religious in nature, Hitler got away with it because he was preying upon the centuries old christian anti-semitic sentiment that has resulted of the genocide of Jews in Germany since the first crusade.

He's right below Jesus in the rankings of Roman Catholicism.

1) God

2) Jesus

3) Pope (God's Messenger on Earth)

MattUD1

Yet another thing to add to my "Why Roman Catholicism sucks" list. . .

[QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"]

That's one commandment, not ten. Again.....answer my question.

Dracargen

You obviously do not understand Christianity.

You cannot pick one commandment to not follow and follow all the others.

Unless, of course, God deemed it no longer necessary.;)

Jesus also added to the Ten Commandments. If you hate somebody, then that is equivalent to murder. If you lust for a woman when you already are engaging in a relationship, then that is equivalent to adultery. Technically, the Ten Commandments from the OT do not matter as much as the Commandments from Christ.

Earlier you said the pope is the figurehead of Christianity. That is wrong on as many levels as possible. Jesus is the figurehead of Christianity; Nobody else.

Until the Reformation, the Pope was the spiritual leader of Christianity.

Uh-huh. How does that make him the figurehead of Christianity?

I don't understand what you mean by figurehead. The Pope was the person who was looked upon as being the leader of Christianity. The Pope was the successor of St. Peter who was one of the original twelve disciples of Jesus.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="helium_flash"]

The Crusades, the Holocaust, ect. :|

Insane00

Niether of those were religious.:|

The Crusades were made in order to gain land that people wanted.

The holocaust. . . .wait, how in hell was the holocaust caused by religion?

The Crusades were justified to the european people and called for by the pope (Urban II I believe) for the purpose of killing the infidels. Granted I don't think that was the real reason (Urban wanted to get the europeans to stop killing one another) but people bought into it for religious reasons, and people went, not only because of religious justification, but because the pope promised that all people that fought in the crusades would be forgiven of their sins.

While I agree the Holocaust wasn't religious in nature, Hitler got away with it because he was preying upon the centuries old christian anti-semitic sentiment that has resulted of the genocide of Jews in Germany since the first crusade.

Whoops... Sorry, that was Urban the 2nd. Clermont (not Clement) was where the Council was held.

1) God

2) Jesus

3) Pope (God's Messenger on Earth)"

whoever said that (quote button's not working)

Wrong on one important aspect. Jesus is equal to God the father; he is the creative aspect; basically the equivalent of vishnu. It's made pretty clear in the prologue to John's gospel.

[QUOTE="MattUD1"]He's right below Jesus in the rankings of Roman Catholicism.

1) God

2) Jesus

3) Pope (God's Messenger on Earth)

Dracargen

Yet another thing to add to my "Why Roman Catholicism sucks" list. . .

Jesus flat-out tells people what He wills in the Bible.:|

As for my interpretations, who said I thought it was correct? Frankly, I don't think any interpretation is correct. When we die, God'll tell us all "Hey, you were right on this point, but you were WAY off on this one."

It's really the best we can do, considering the Bible was written a long time ago.

Dracargen

If the Bible doesn't even have a correct interpretation, then what justification is there to use Christianity as a basis for moral decisions?

"He's right below Jesus in the rankings of Roman Catholicism.

1) God

2) Jesus

3) Pope (God's Messenger on Earth)"

whoever said that (quote button's not working)

Wrong on one important aspect. Jesus is equal to God the father; he is the creative aspect; basically the equivalent of vishnu. It's made pretty clear in the prologue to John's gospel.

Mr_Mohawk

Yes, Young Earth Creationists are that ignorant in many cases; I was watching a documentary of embryology and evolution and a person could not understand how evolution was involved, a few seconds after they gave examples of embryo development being evolution in miniature.CptJSparrow

Have you seen that Nova episode on PBS that talked about the Kitzmiller v. Dover case in Pennsylvania?

Hitler believed in a pagan Aryan religion.

Dracargen

Though I was addressing the wrong issue...

Read these.

Your last statement was also a very inaccurate assumption.

Yes, Young Earth Creationists are that ignorant in many cases; I was watching a documentary of embryology and evolution and a person could not understand how evolution was involved, a few seconds after they gave examples of embryo development being evolution in miniature.CptJSparrow

I think this is usually because most creationists imagine that evolution works in leaps rather than small steps.

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Yes, Young Earth Creationists are that ignorant in many cases; I was watching a documentary of embryology and evolution and a person could not understand how evolution was involved, a few seconds after they gave examples of embryo development being evolution in miniature.Decessus

Have you seen that Nova episode on PBS that talked about the Kitzmiller v. Dover case in Pennsylvania?

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Hitler believed in a pagan Aryan religion.

The_Ish

Though I was addressing the wrong issue...

Read these.

Your last statement was also a very inaccurate assumption.

Hitler was not Christian check out thelink below. The link you provided was pretty inaccurate. The site did not include the anti-christian quotes that he said in private and public situations.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

this is how it went down

Creationist 1: "evolution says we came from mokeys"

Me: "no, evolution says humans and apes share a common ancestor"

Creationist 1: "that's just something they made up for evolution to make more sense"

then another creationist gets the teacher involved, and he says that evolution says there is no God

are creationists really this ignorant about evolution? no wonder christianity is on the decline in america, the creationists are making us look retarded:o

verparanoidpers

No but your obviously very imature and ignorant.

[QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Hitler believed in a pagan Aryan religion.

greenprince

Though I was addressing the wrong issue...

Read these.

Your last statement was also a very inaccurate assumption.

Hitler was not Christian check out that link. The link you provided was pretty inaccurate. The site did not include the anti-christian quotes that he said in private and public situations.

How is it inaccurate? It talks about Hitler's apparant religiousness, and then gives evidence to why he was a Christian. Yes I checked out my own link, thank you. Now can you back up your claim that this source is not reliable?

[QUOTE="verparanoidpers"]

this is how it went down

Creationist 1: "evolution says we came from mokeys"

Me: "no, evolution says humans and apes share a common ancestor"

Creationist 1: "that's just something they made up for evolution to make more sense"

then another creationist gets the teacher involved, and he says that evolution says there is no God

are creationists really this ignorant about evolution? no wonder christianity is on the decline in america, the creationists are making us look retarded:o

Matts07

No but your obviously very imature and ignorant.

How are his statements very immature or ignorant?

[QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Hitler believed in a pagan Aryan religion.

The_Ish

Though I was addressing the wrong issue...

Read these.

Your last statement was also a very inaccurate assumption.

Hitler was not Christian check out that link. The link you provided was pretty inaccurate. The site did not include the anti-christian quotes that he said in private and public situations.

How is it inaccurate? It talks about Hitler's apparant religiousness, and then gives evidence to why he was a Christian? Yes I checked out my own link, thank you. Now can you back up your claim that this source is not reliable?

He was not Christian. I'm not saying that this site was unreliable I'm just just saying highlights the difference between Hitler's public speeches before he came to power, and his attitude after 1935 when he saw Christianity as a threat to Nazi domination. I'm not saying Hitler was Athiest or any other religion there is no clear evidence of what he actually believed in. And to state that he is Christian is a mere theory because his private conversations and ending moments of his life disagree with his early thoughts of himself being Christian.

I find it difficult to really prove what Hitler honestly believed in, considering that he was habitually dishonest. What does it matter, anyway? Are you going to judge everyone who likes to wear a hat because Hitler was fond of them? Are you going to call all American teachers tyrants because Stalin wrote in red ink on documents approving genocide? This is highly fallacious logic, passing judgment on all atheists--or all Christians--based off of their proponents at their worst.CptJSparrow

I'm not passing judgements on a group based on one person...otherwise I wouldn't be talking to anyone ever. I'm merely trying to show him why he is wrong. Hitler may have been an ass, but no one should say he was Christian when it was clear he considered himself one...at least more often than not.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

He was not Christian. I'm not saying that this site was unreliable I'm just just saying highlights the difference between Hitler's public speeches before he came to power, and his attitude after 1935 when he saw Christianity as a threat to Nazi domination.

greenprince

Fair enough, I had thought you were discrediting the source rather than Hitler.

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]I find it difficult to really prove what Hitler honestly believed in, considering that he was habitually dishonest. What does it matter, anyway? Are you going to judge everyone who likes to wear a hat because Hitler was fond of them? Are you going to call all American teachers tyrants because Stalin wrote in red ink on documents approving genocide? This is highly fallacious logic, passing judgment on all atheists--or all Christians--based off of their proponents at their worst.The_Ish

I'm not passing judgements on a group based on one person...otherwise I wouldn't be talking to anyone ever. I'm merely trying to show him why he is wrong. Hitler may have been an ass, but no one should say he was Christian when it was clear he considered himself one...at least more often than not.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

[QUOTE="Boring_Bland"]I don't see why people care so much about religonand creationism and stuff like that. In your everyday life, None of it matters. It doesnt even matter in the end(omg i sound like linken park).xxDustmanxx

Religion is a major aspect in the lives of many people. These people make decisions everyday based on what they believe, so I don't agree with you when you say that in everyday life it doesn't matter.

Making decisions based on flying ponies is a pretty dangerous way to take action.

I'm surprised the world hasn't burned to the ground.

Nobody believes in flying ponies. . . .

The world hasn't burned to the ground because religion keeps on throwing water on the flames. . .unfortunately, there are too many people of a particular belief system who keep knocking down the religious and lighting more matches.;)

[/QUOTE/]

Alot of conflict and suffering in the world is due to religion.

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]I find it difficult to really prove what Hitler honestly believed in, considering that he was habitually dishonest. What does it matter, anyway? Are you going to judge everyone who likes to wear a hat because Hitler was fond of them? Are you going to call all American teachers tyrants because Stalin wrote in red ink on documents approving genocide? This is highly fallacious logic, passing judgment on all atheists--or all Christians--based off of their proponents at their worst.The_Ish

I'm not passing judgements on a group based on one person...otherwise I wouldn't be talking to anyone ever. I'm merely trying to show him why he is wrong. Hitler may have been an ass, but no one should say he was Christian when it was clear he considered himself one...at least more often than not.

I found a very good Straight Dope article that addresses the topic of whether Hitler was a Christian or not.

To summerize the conclusion; we just don't know because Hitler was a liar who would say one thing at one time and then disregard it at a moments notice when it suited him best. It is generally believed that he wasn't an atheist, but at the very least a deist and possibily a theist. One opinion even said "you could certainly make the argument that he was a firm believer in God, if by 'God' you mean 'Adolf Hitler

[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]I find it difficult to really prove what Hitler honestly believed in, considering that he was habitually dishonest. What does it matter, anyway? Are you going to judge everyone who likes to wear a hat because Hitler was fond of them? Are you going to call all American teachers tyrants because Stalin wrote in red ink on documents approving genocide? This is highly fallacious logic, passing judgment on all atheists--or all Christians--based off of their proponents at their worst.CptJSparrow

I'm not passing judgements on a group based on one person...otherwise I wouldn't be talking to anyone ever. I'm merely trying to show him why he is wrong. Hitler may have been an ass, but no one should say he was Christian when it was clear he considered himself one...at least more often than not.

As mentioned by the previous article I linked, Hitler also recommended that parents give milk to their children instead of beer and also started the first anti-smoking campaign. So, if you don't give your babies beer and don't smoke heavily, you must be an evil person comparable to Hitler.

I'm not against people having the belief of creationism or anything else for that matter. But amazed by the fact that people born with logic and reasoning come to believe such things.

I guess this just goes to show how much of an effect your upbringing has on your behaviour.

See, some Christians (like me) read the bible as a literal rundown of what happened, whereas others (like you, I guess) don't interperet it literally. My question is, why would you write a non-fiction book if you didn't want it interpereted literally?thnickaman13

Maybe so that it's messages can be applied in many different situations? There's a reason why laws are written to be non-specific, so that they don't just apply to one place, one era, one crime.

To be fair, there's plenty of idiots on both sides of this debate. If you really want a run for your money stop picking on some random joe and sit down with some of the most respected philosophers of the opposing school of thought.

Otherwise, it sounds like someone bragging about beating their 5 year old sister in an arm wrestling match...

the person is just defending their beliefs, its human nature.

however if you watched the imaginationland episodes of south park, you would realize that even if religion is good or not, it is actually more real in our everyday lives than evolution, touching BILLIONS across the globe. if it makes you a good person why mess with it? believe whatever you want to, just do onto others as the same you would want to be treated.