If murder is illegal, why isn't abortion?

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

"Pro-choice individuals often do not consider themselves "pro-abortion" because they consider abortion an issue of bodily autonomy, and find forced abortion to be as legally indefensible as the outlawing of abortion."

"Some who argue from a philosophical viewpoint believe that an embryo has no rights as it is only a potential and not an actual being and that it should not have rights that override those of the pregnant woman until it is born"

"Some people who are pro-choice see abortion as a last resort and focus on a number of situations where they feel abortion is a necessary option. Among these situations are those where the woman was raped"

"On the issue of abortion, pro-life campaigners are opposed bypro-choicecampaigners, who generally advocate for what they see as women'sreproductive rights."

Wow, they're all the same. It's apparently an endless cycle that will never end. There will ALWAYS be someone to oppose the Pro-Life, or in the "Pro-Choicers" case "Reproductive Rights" movement.

All these quotes were taken from Wikipedia.

Teenaged

These quotes show that your Arguments are all the same. Fighting about it is pointless because I will not change my opinion on the subject neither will you.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

"Pro-choice individuals often do not consider themselves "pro-abortion" because they consider abortion an issue of bodily autonomy, and find forced abortion to be as legally indefensible as the outlawing of abortion."

"Some who argue from a philosophical viewpoint believe that an embryo has no rights as it is only a potential and not an actual being and that it should not have rights that override those of the pregnant woman until it is born"

"Some people who are pro-choice see abortion as a last resort and focus on a number of situations where they feel abortion is a necessary option. Among these situations are those where the woman was raped"

"On the issue of abortion, pro-life campaigners are opposed bypro-choicecampaigners, who generally advocate for what they see as women'sreproductive rights."

Wow, they're all the same. It's apparently an endless cycle that will never end. There will ALWAYS be someone to oppose the Pro-Life, or in the "Pro-Choicers" case "Reproductive Rights" movement.

All these quotes were taken from Wikipedia.

Snipes_2

These quotes show that your Arguments are all the same. Fighting about it is pointless because I will not change my opinion on the subject neither will you.

It's the same thing, only different circumstances.

megahaloman64

:i Because the baby is only like a cell. Murder is when you kill a breathing human who has experienced life. How can you relate killing someone to killing a unwanted baby who has barely developed at all.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] no morality is not ambiguous, people just make it so. abortion: to stop a human being of being born, which means you actually stopped a life, which eventually is the same as murder.GazaAli

I wish the world was black and white, too!

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]And what do these show exactly?

Teenaged

These quotes show that your Arguments are all the same. Fighting about it is pointless because I will not change my opinion on the subject neither will you.

In my eyes I'm not wrong about them. How were my assumptions incorrect? You support the choice for women to have an abortion. I find abortion wrong and unnecessary. That's just me though.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

These quotes show that your Arguments are all the same. Fighting about it is pointless because I will not change my opinion on the subject neither will you.

Snipes_2

In my eyes I'm not wrong about them. How were my assumptions incorrect? You support the choice for women to have an abortion. I find abortion wrong and unnecessary. That's just me though.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

I wish the world was black and white, too!

Ed_Cetera

which im 100% proud of.

[QUOTE="Ed_Cetera"][QUOTE="GazaAli"] the fact is the world is black and white, at least for me.GazaAli

which im 100% proud of.

because it's not the same thing o_O

problem solved, end of discussion.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

[QUOTE="Ed_Cetera"] lol moral absolutismLODisapproval

which im 100% proud of.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

"Pro-choice individuals often do not consider themselves "pro-abortion" because they consider abortion an issue of bodily autonomy, and find forced abortion to be as legally indefensible as the outlawing of abortion."

"Some who argue from a philosophical viewpoint believe that an embryo has no rights as it is only a potential and not an actual being and that it should not have rights that override those of the pregnant woman until it is born"

"Some people who are pro-choice see abortion as a last resort and focus on a number of situations where they feel abortion is a necessary option. Among these situations are those where the woman was raped"

"On the issue of abortion, pro-life campaigners are opposed bypro-choicecampaigners, who generally advocate for what they see as women'sreproductive rights."

Wow, they're all the same. It's apparently an endless cycle that will never end. There will ALWAYS be someone to oppose the Pro-Life, or in the "Pro-Choicers" case "Reproductive Rights" movement.

All these quotes were taken from Wikipedia.

Snipes_2

These quotes show that your Arguments are all the same. Fighting about it is pointless because I will not change my opinion on the subject neither will you.

Now, that being said, a fetus is not a part of a woman's body. A substance's parts are what they are in virtue of the role they play in the substance. A heart is a heart because it pumps blood throughout the body.

A Fetus however does not play a role in a woman's body, its final cause is outside the woman's body, and it can still continue to be even if it is outside the body and has no capacity to play a role in the woman's body.

To sum up, a fetus isn't part of a woman's body.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"] Both of them, sleeping persons and fetuses, have merely the *potential* to percieve. The sleeping person just has a lower order capacity while the fetus has a higher order capacity.

Still the same sort of substance.

danwallacefan

*sigh* in the sense that we're made up of cells, yes... in early development, a fetus is not similar to a human being... I don't see that statement as anything more than an appeal to emotion...

Ah, okay, thanks for clarifying what you were referring to. And, I don't agree with that view of substance, so yeah...

and it can still continue to be even if it is outside the body and has no capacity to play a role in the woman's bodydanwallacefan

[QUOTE="Ed_Cetera"][QUOTE="GazaAli"] the fact is the world is black and white, at least for me.GazaAli

which im 100% proud of.

I find that tremendously nieve.. Life is never that simple.

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

*sigh* in the sense that we're made up of cells, yes... in early development, a fetus is not similar to a human being... I don't see that statement as anything more than an appeal to emotion...

chessmaster1989

Ah, okay, thanks for clarifying what you were referring to. And, I don't agree with that view of substance, so yeah...

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"] and it can still continue to be even if it is outside the body and has no capacity to play a role in the woman's bodyVandalvideo

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]And what do these show exactly?

danwallacefan

These quotes show that your Arguments are all the same. Fighting about it is pointless because I will not change my opinion on the subject neither will you.

Now, that being said, a fetus is not a part of a woman's body. A substance's parts are what they are in virtue of the role they play in the substance. A heart is a heart because it pumps blood throughout the body.

A Fetus however does not play a role in a woman's body, its final cause is outside the woman's body, and it can still continue to be even if it is outside the body and has no capacity to play a role in the woman's body.

To sum up, a fetus isn't part of a woman's body.

The Fetus obviously is not part of a Woman's body. Its a separate Human Being. And by stating that I will not change my mind does not mean "I can't be taught", IT means I firmly believe in what I believe.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]I didnt want you to change your opinion and become pro-choice; I just wanted you to realise you were wrong in your assumptions about the intetnions of people that are pro-choice.

Teenaged

In my eyes I'm not wrong about them. How were my assumptions incorrect? You support the choice for women to have an abortion. I find abortion wrong and unnecessary. That's just me though.

Ok...?

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

In my eyes I'm not wrong about them. How were my assumptions incorrect? You support the choice for women to have an abortion. I find abortion wrong and unnecessary. That's just me though.

Snipes_2

Ok...?

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]I wont debate this further. At least the red parts are spot on.

smc91352

Ok...?

[QUOTE="smc91352"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"]Ok...? danwallacefan

One reason why people don't see it as murder, is because before the baby has reached three months of being inside the womb it isn't considered a fetus yet, so it's just a "thing". Some countries abortion laws abide to this, that after a certain time carrying the child you can no longer ask for abortion

Zygote does not = Human therefore abortion does not = murder.

If you really care about it then strive for it. Don't try and get people to change their minds because you don't agree with them.

Zygote does not = Human therefore abortion does not = murder.

If you really care about it then strive for it. Don't try and get people to change their minds because you don't agree with them.

starfox15

Zygote does not = Human therefore abortion does not = murder.

If you really care about it then strive for it. Don't try and get people to change their minds because you don't agree with them.

starfox15

What's funny is that people starting analyzing my opinion and then continued to try and change MY Mind. Not the other way around.

[QUOTE="starfox15"]

Zygote does not = Human therefore abortion does not = murder.

If you really care about it then strive for it. Don't try and get people to change their minds because you don't agree with them.

Snipes_2

What's funny is that people starting analyzing my opinion and then continued to try and change MY Mind. Not the other way around.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="starfox15"]

Zygote does not = Human therefore abortion does not = murder.

If you really care about it then strive for it. Don't try and get people to change their minds because you don't agree with them.

smc91352

What's funny is that people starting analyzing my opinion and then continued to try and change MY Mind. Not the other way around.

Who was he referring to then? I thought it was based upon anyone who thought otherwise?

"You give yourself too much credit." - That is "LoL" worthy. Any other inane remarks?

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"] why does sentience=personhood?

danwallacefan

[QUOTE="smc91352"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

What's funny is that people starting analyzing my opinion and then continued to try and change MY Mind. Not the other way around.

Snipes_2

Who was he referring to then? I thought it was based upon anyone who thought otherwise?

"You give yourself too much credit." - That is "LoL" worthy. Any other inane remarks?

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="smc91352"] He didn't quote you. You give yourself too much credit.smc91352

Who was he referring to then? I thought it was based upon anyone who thought otherwise?

"You give yourself too much credit." - That is "LoL" worthy. Any other inane remarks?

I'm assuming he referred to someone specific given your response to my post.

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]Because that is what the article stated. I myself have never heard of the word 'personhood' but if that's what they want to call it then so be it. Do you think something without sentience can have personhood? If so what exactly makes that non-sentient thing a person?

BumFluff122

and no, they dont have sentience. They are not aware of anything.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"] a sleeping person, a person in a temporary coma, etc.

danwallacefan

and no, they dont have sentience. They are not aware of anything.

You still have Brain FUnction when you're in a Coma. Just because you can't express it doesn't mean you're not alive/sentient.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

because abortion isn't murder. To murder that thing you are murdering has to be a sentient being. A bunch of cells in a womb does not a sentient being make.

megahaloman64

Abortion is ending the life of another living being, is that not murder?

because something needs to be alive in order to be murdered-DirtySanchez-

[QUOTE="-DirtySanchez-"]because something needs to be alive in order to be murderedsmc91352

because something needs to be alive in order to be murdered-DirtySanchez-

Cells are alive and so is a Fetus. Therefore, killing them would be murder. By your definition.

[QUOTE="smc91352"][QUOTE="-DirtySanchez-"]because something needs to be alive in order to be murdered-DirtySanchez-

[QUOTE="-DirtySanchez-"][QUOTE="smc91352"] define "alive"mattbbpl

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="-DirtySanchez-"] born-DirtySanchez-

[QUOTE="-DirtySanchez-"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"] I bring forth the chicken example. :Pmattbbpl

because any attempt to do so before viability would destroy the fetus, ergo destroying the person, ergo murder.danwallacefan

[QUOTE="-DirtySanchez-"]because something needs to be alive in order to be murderedSnipes_2

Cells are alive and so is a Fetus. Therefore, killing them would be murder. By your definition.

Im gonna write what I wrote earlier and got modded for it in a nicer tone. Maybe if people would use proper protection we would not have this argument.