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[QUOTE="themagicbum9720"]abortion is only removing cells, it isn't murder.RAGINGxPONY
Seriously dude watchsome videos of a babies being aborted and than come back and tell me all it is, is cells being removed.Maybe in the first couple of weeks it is just cells being removed, but after that it is a baby being murdered.
http://www.violence.de/prescott/humanist/abortion.html
it gets a little agressive at the end, which im not a fan of, but this was something i found quickly through google.
The second the egg is fertilized and it can be called a one-celled zygote; it is alive. The cells develop into the baby, so therefore killing the cells is killing the human being. The cells are alive and they develop into a baby. Therefore abortion is the deliberate killing of another human being. Same argument goes for the death penalty, its unacceptable.
What is your definition of life? The ambryo is not sentient. Therefor it is not alive. An embryo can not think for itself. An embry does not have emotions or feelings or even senses. As soon as those are formed then it can be considered alive. Once the child can feel pain, can think for itself, can breath for itself and can have working organs under it's own power then it is considered life.[QUOTE="RAGINGxPONY"]
It is alive. These people are just trying to make excuses for abortion being okay.
BumFluff122
Exactly you said it for yourself, a baby in the womb has all of those you just said. A unborn baby does think for itself, as shown in abortion videos where the baby tries to escape, it does have feeling because in abortion videos the baby is clearly scared, a unborn baby is formed from around 7 weeks on. You just said it yourself, the unborn baby is alive.
[QUOTE="megahaloman64"]
[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]That other being, as you call it, does not have life.
BumFluff122
It needs water, nutrients, therefore it is alive
a plant needs water and nutrients too but it is debated whether they can actually be considered alive too. Also the embryo does not take water and nutrients in by itself. It needs to be inside a body to provide it with nutrients, to make its' heart beat, etc...Is an human embryo an plant? The point is IT NEEDS nutrients, therefore it is alive, it doesn't matter if it needs to be inside a body, the point is it's alive, aborting it would be ending it's life, therefore it is murder.
a plant needs water and nutrients too but it is debated whether they can actually be considered alive too. Also the embryo does not take water and nutrients in by itself. It needs to be inside a body to provide it with nutrients, to make its' heart beat, etc...[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]
[QUOTE="megahaloman64"]
It needs water, nutrients, therefore it is alive
megahaloman64
Is an human embryo an plant? The point is IT NEEDS nutrients, therefore it is alive, it doesn't matter if it needs to be inside a body, the point is it's alive, aborting it would be ending it's life, therefore it is murder.
Being alive and being a new life are not the same thing. A sperm is alive and letting it die is not murder...
human life begins since the conception, doesnt matter if its a collection of cells or a 25 years old baby! anyway that is pretty much defined by a constitution, in my country, the abortion is illegal because since the moment of conception theres already a new human lifeA collection of cells isn't a person, so you can't define it as murder.
ProudLarry
What is your definition of life? The ambryo is not sentient. Therefor it is not alive. An embryo can not think for itself. An embry does not have emotions or feelings or even senses. As soon as those are formed then it can be considered alive. Once the child can feel pain, can think for itself, can breath for itself and can have working organs under it's own power then it is considered life.[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]
[QUOTE="RAGINGxPONY"]
It is alive. These people are just trying to make excuses for abortion being okay.
RAGINGxPONY
Exactly you said it for yourself, a baby in the womb has all of those you just said. A unborn baby does think for itself, as shown in abortion videos where the baby tries to escape, it does have feeling because in abortion videos the baby is clearly scared, a unborn baby is formed from around 7 weeks on. You just said it yourself, the unborn baby is alive.
No. An unborn baby does not think for itself. It thinks for itself after a certain point. after that point abortion should be illegal and is in many countries. You are trying to argue against soemthign that was argued about long ago and has been changed. Those abortion videos you are speaking of are merely videos put out by the anti-abortion crowd to facilitate a response much as PETA does with it's videos. It is illegal to abort fetuses after they can be considered 'alive'. If an unborn baby is formed from 7 weeks onward why does an unborn baby have to survive in the womb for 7 more months? That doesn't even make sense. If a 7 week baby is fully formed why are there so many deaths due to premature births? Why can extrme premature births need assistance outside of the womb to survive?Wow. A pro-choice comment that isn't shallow and stupid. Congrats.This thread again? Please, give me a break. :roll:
Because, women should have the option to have it. :|
We need (yes, need) abortion for a number of resons:
-One, if a woman has no egg, sperm cannot fertilize one, so the sperm travels into the fallopian tube. This can be deadly, only because sometimes the body cannot control it. The baby won't survive anyway, and if her body can't make it leave the tube, she can, and probably will die.
-Two, some women are so weak, they can't give birth, and so they can, once again, live, they need an abortion if they choose not to have a c-section
-Three, if she was raped, I would totally understand if she doesn't want a baby if she didn't choose to have it. :?
A question, why do you care? It's none of anyone's business if they choose to or not. Let her make her own choices.
Lilyanne46
I agree with you completely. Also, about the rape thing and anything like that. If a woman is pregnant and doesn't want the baby, should she still have it? What if she's unfit to be a mother? The kid would be brought up in a terrible way and it'd live a bad life.This thread again? Please, give me a break. :roll:
Because, women should have the option to have it. :|
We need (yes, need) abortion for a number of resons:
-One, if a woman has no egg, sperm cannot fertilize one, so the sperm travels into the fallopian tube. This can be deadly, only because sometimes the body cannot control it. The baby won't survive anyway, and if her body can't make it leave the tube, she can, and probably will die.
-Two, some women are so weak, they can't give birth, and so they can, once again, live, they need an abortion if they choose not to have a c-section
-Three, if she was raped, I would totally understand if she doesn't want a baby if she didn't choose to have it. :?
A question, why do you care? It's none of anyone's business if they choose to or not. Let her make her own choices.
Lilyanne46
I'm quite sure there was already an abortion thread (or 2) going, so why this one is necessary I'm not sure.
I'm also not sure at what point our society decided to value the "life" of an unborn human more than the personal freedom of adult women. That says an awful lot about what women are really worth and how they're regarded by men, in my opinion. I also find interesting the tendancy we have to congratulate men that sleep with lots of women... yet if a woman gets pregnant and wants an abortion, "She shouldn't have been such a tramp! She shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place! She should face the consequences of her actions!" I truly believe that if men were the ones who gave birth, our society would NEVER seriously entertain the idea of criminalizing abortion. Never.
[QUOTE="megahaloman64"][QUOTE="BumFluff122"]a plant needs water and nutrients too but it is debated whether they can actually be considered alive too. Also the embryo does not take water and nutrients in by itself. It needs to be inside a body to provide it with nutrients, to make its' heart beat, etc...
curono
Is an human embryo an plant? The point is IT NEEDS nutrients, therefore it is alive, it doesn't matter if it needs to be inside a body, the point is it's alive, aborting it would be ending it's life, therefore it is murder.
Being alive and being a new life are not the same thing. A sperm is alive and letting it die is not murder... Please, nobody post that Monty Python song.
That's a slippery slope though. You could make the argument that many mentally handicapped people arent truly sentient. The Nazis euthanized them because of that reasoning.because abortion isn't murder. To murder that thing you are murdering has to be a sentient being. A bunch of cells in a womb does not a sentient being make.
BumFluff122
As stated before. A cyst needs nutrients too. Cancer needs nutrients to continue propogating. Is cancer alive? Is a cyst alive?Is an human embryo an plant? The point is IT NEEDS nutrients, therefore it is alive, it doesn't matter if it needs to be inside a body, the point is it's alive, aborting it would be ending it's life, therefore it is murder.
megahaloman64
[QUOTE="Espada12"]
[QUOTE="Teenaged"]
If murder is illegal, why isnt the death penalty?
The debate on if abortion and the death penalty are the same or comparable begins..................... NOW!!!!!
GO GO GO GO GO GO!!!
Teenaged
Because there is an exception in the law for it :P ?
Oh come on, dont kill the debate so early! :evil:Ok I retract my statement! :p
As stated before. A cyst needs nutrients too. Cancer needs nutrients to continue propogating. Is cancer alive? Is a cyst alive? Both could be considered alive, but not separate entities.[QUOTE="megahaloman64"]
Is an human embryo an plant? The point is IT NEEDS nutrients, therefore it is alive, it doesn't matter if it needs to be inside a body, the point is it's alive, aborting it would be ending it's life, therefore it is murder.
BumFluff122
[QUOTE="RAGINGxPONY"]
[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]What is your definition of life? The ambryo is not sentient. Therefor it is not alive. An embryo can not think for itself. An embry does not have emotions or feelings or even senses. As soon as those are formed then it can be considered alive. Once the child can feel pain, can think for itself, can breath for itself and can have working organs under it's own power then it is considered life.
BumFluff122
Exactly you said it for yourself, a baby in the womb has all of those you just said. A unborn baby does think for itself, as shown in abortion videos where the baby tries to escape, it does have feeling because in abortion videos the baby is clearly scared, a unborn baby is formed from around 7 weeks on. You just said it yourself, the unborn baby is alive.
No. An unborn baby does not think for itself. It thinks for itself after a certain point. after that point abortion should be illegal and is in many countries. You are trying to argue against soemthign that was argued about long ago and has been changed. Those abortion videos you are speaking of are merely videos put out by the anti-abortion crowd to facilitate a response much as PETA does with it's videos. It is illegal to abort fetuses after they can be considered 'alive'. If an unborn baby is formed from 7 weeks onward why does an unborn baby have to survive in the womb for 7 more months? That doesn't even make sense. If a 7 week baby is fully formed why are there so many deaths due to premature births? Why can extrme premature births need assistance outside of the womb to survive?Yeah since pro life people told the unborn baby to act scared right?
Yes it does think for itself, i'm not sure the exact date but i am 100% positive it is before 24 months which is the leagal date of abortion.
A baby is fully formed at 7-8 weeks, it has hands, legs, heart brain, everything, of course it still needs to grow after that though.
[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]That's a slippery slope though. You could make the argument that many mentally handicapped people arent truly sentient. The Nazis euthanized them because of that reasoning.Are you trying to say mentally handicapped people don't have 'personhood'? Are you trying to say mentally handicapped people don't have a mind of their own?because abortion isn't murder. To murder that thing you are murdering has to be a sentient being. A bunch of cells in a womb does not a sentient being make.
sonicare
[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]That's a slippery slope though. You could make the argument that many mentally handicapped people arent truly sentient. The Nazis euthanized them because of that reasoning.because abortion isn't murder. To murder that thing you are murdering has to be a sentient being. A bunch of cells in a womb does not a sentient being make.
sonicare
it's only a slippery slope if we move on to more developed beings. He is talking just about a group of cells. mentally handicapped people do have sentience. They still learn, they still interact as humans would. there are MANY MANY levels of mental retardation. And even then, mentally handicapped people are still able function. The nazis were exterminating moderately and severely mentally handicapped people; however, they were still humans in the more developed sense.
Abortions have been conducted for eons. Whether or not we agree or disagree, or if its made illegal or not, abortions will continue to administered for eons more.
If we make abortions a criminal offence, all that wil change is that the procedures will be self-administered with a coat hanger (or similarly dangerous practice) as opposed to the current safety of a certified practitioner.
[QUOTE="curono"][QUOTE="megahaloman64"]Being alive and being a new life are not the same thing. A sperm is alive and letting it die is not murder... Please, nobody post that Monty Python song.Is an human embryo an plant? The point is IT NEEDS nutrients, therefore it is alive, it doesn't matter if it needs to be inside a body, the point is it's alive, aborting it would be ending it's life, therefore it is murder.
PannicAtack
What are you talking about? Its not like he's saying every sperm is sacred, or that every sperm is great. He's not making it much of a religious matter, either but...Come to think of it...If a sperm gets wasted, God gets quite irate.
[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]As stated before. A cyst needs nutrients too. Cancer needs nutrients to continue propogating. Is cancer alive? Is a cyst alive? Both could be considered alive, but not separate entities.Cancer is just a mutated cell continuing to devide. Life is classified as those objects that have self-sustaining biological processes. A cyst and cancer do not have these attributes. Your definition of life is far to broad.[QUOTE="megahaloman64"]
Is an human embryo an plant? The point is IT NEEDS nutrients, therefore it is alive, it doesn't matter if it needs to be inside a body, the point is it's alive, aborting it would be ending it's life, therefore it is murder.
curono
...Besides of creating a sense of fear, sadnes and rejection towards the woman, when we should them.Abortions have been conducted for eons. Whether or not we agree or disagree, or if its made illegal or not, abortions will continue to administered for eons more.
If we make abortions a criminal offence, all that wil change is that the procedures will be self-administered with a coat hanger (or similarly dangerous practice) as opposed to the current safety of a certified practitioner.
poptart
As stated before. A cyst needs nutrients too. Cancer needs nutrients to continue propogating. Is cancer alive? Is a cyst alive?[QUOTE="megahaloman64"]
Is an human embryo an plant? The point is IT NEEDS nutrients, therefore it is alive, it doesn't matter if it needs to be inside a body, the point is it's alive, aborting it would be ending it's life, therefore it is murder.
BumFluff122
an embryo is not a cancer or cyst
I agree with you completely. Also, about the rape thing and anything like that. If a woman is pregnant and doesn't want the baby, should she still have it? What if she's unfit to be a mother? The kid would be brought up in a terrible way and it'd live a bad life.[QUOTE="SoraX64"][QUOTE="Lilyanne46"]
This thread again? Please, give me a break. :roll:
Because, women should have the option to have it. :|
We need (yes, need) abortion for a number of resons:
-One, if a woman has no egg, sperm cannot fertilize one, so the sperm travels into the fallopian tube. This can be deadly, only because sometimes the body cannot control it. The baby won't survive anyway, and if her body can't make it leave the tube, she can, and probably will die.
-Two, some women are so weak, they can't give birth, and so they can, once again, live, they need an abortion if they choose not to have a c-section
-Three, if she was raped, I would totally understand if she doesn't want a baby if she didn't choose to have it. :?
A question, why do you care? It's none of anyone's business if they choose to or not. Let her make her own choices.
Lilyanne46
Not to mention ofrced sex can scar her for life mentally, making her unfit as a mother, because she can't take all the pain of labor, or surgery, and depression, or other mental problems.
If abortion should be illegal, why should the death penalty be legal? Why should killing animals for food be legal?
This is where I do not get people's logic. Because we need animal's meat, because some people cannot ingest other types of food as easily as others. The person who commit the severe crime has their life ended because they could repeat the offense until the day they die.
Hmm are you comparing punishment for crimes and food to terminating an unborn infant's existence? I agree with you but the comparisons .. don't do them.
Both could be considered alive, but not separate entities.Cancer is just a mutated cell continuing to devide. Life is classified as those objects that have self-sustaining biological processes. A cyst and cancer do not have these attributes. Your definition of life is far to broad. By your definition, a zygote is not a LIFE. ZYGOTES CANT IN ANY WAY LIVE OUTSIDE THE WOMAN'S WOMB. ZYGOTES ARE NOT SELF SUSTAINING BIOLOGICAL ENTITIES. Thanks for giving me reason ;)[QUOTE="curono"][QUOTE="BumFluff122"]As stated before. A cyst needs nutrients too. Cancer needs nutrients to continue propogating. Is cancer alive? Is a cyst alive?
BumFluff122
Umm no. you are missing my point completely. See these anti-abortionists and activists get the most horrific video they can find and use it to make their point. They paint a picture that every one of the incidents they are arguing against is exactly like the video they are showing you. And by 24 months I hope you mean 24 weeks. There is a debate abotu at which point an abortion should be illegal and at which point it should be legal. If scientists find that, as you state, 'life' begins in the embryo before the current border of legality that border will more than likely be moved back. As I asked before. where do you draw the line between when it is alive and when it is not alive? Are sperm alive? Everytime you do the monosex thing you are comitting murder.Yeah since pro life people told the unborn baby to act scared right?
Yes it does think for itself, i'm not sure the exact date but i am 100% positive it is before 24 months which is the leagal date of abortion.
A baby is fully formed at 7-8 weeks, it has hands, legs, heart brain, everything, of course it still needs to grow after that though.
RAGINGxPONY
[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]Cancer is just a mutated cell continuing to devide. Life is classified as those objects that have self-sustaining biological processes. A cyst and cancer do not have these attributes. Your definition of life is far to broad. By your definition, a zygote is not a LIFE. ZYGOTES CANT IN ANY WAY LIVE OUTSIDE THE WOMAN'S WOMB. ZYGOTES ARE NOT SELF SUSTAINING BIOLOGICAL ENTITIES. Thanks for giving me reason ;)Ummm... that's exactly what we've been discussing. Do you even know what a zygote is? It's the original cell formed when the semen meets the sperm.[QUOTE="curono"] Both could be considered alive, but not separate entities.curono
It's legal because it is needed. Because banning it would not stop abortions and would be worse than keeping abortion around, this is likely why it IS legal, because otherwise women would needlessly risk their lives with back alley abortions.
There is question on if the embryo is a living human being, ones speculation or emotion fueled "IT IS!", or speculative video "proof" does not influence the law in this.
I never understood why so many people who are pro life are pro-death penalty. I always figured it was because to alot of them, once you hit a certain age (generally 10 to 13) you are no longer as important as a younger person. Which never made sense to me.
Oh, an on the euthanasia subject, I am for being able to choose to kill ones self or to choose to end the life of a loved one who is in a vegative state and has next to no chance of recovering.
By your definition, a zygote is not a LIFE. ZYGOTES CANT IN ANY WAY LIVE OUTSIDE THE WOMAN'S WOMB. ZYGOTES ARE NOT SELF SUSTAINING BIOLOGICAL ENTITIES. Thanks for giving me reason ;)Ummm... that's exactly what we've been discussing. Do you even know what a zygote is? It's the original cell formed when the semen meets the sperm. Semen is a liquid which may or may not contain sperm. Sperm are "dissolved".... You should know your biologies better.[QUOTE="curono"][QUOTE="BumFluff122"]Cancer is just a mutated cell continuing to devide. Life is classified as those objects that have self-sustaining biological processes. A cyst and cancer do not have these attributes. Your definition of life is far to broad.
BumFluff122
Umm no. you are missing my point completely. See these anti-abortionists and activists get the most horrific video they can find and use it to make their point. They paint a picture that every one of the incidents they are arguing against is exactly like the video they are showing you. And by 24 months I hope you mean 24 weeks. There is a debate abotu at which point an abortion should be illegal and at which point it should be legal. If scientists find that, as you state, 'life' begins in the embryo before the current border of legality that border will more than likely be moved back. As I asked before. where do you draw the line between when it is alive and when it is not alive? Are sperm alive? Everytime you do the monosex thing you are comitting murder.[QUOTE="RAGINGxPONY"]
Yeah since pro life people told the unborn baby to act scared right?
Yes it does think for itself, i'm not sure the exact date but i am 100% positive it is before 24 months which is the leagal date of abortion.
A baby is fully formed at 7-8 weeks, it has hands, legs, heart brain, everything, of course it still needs to grow after that though.
BumFluff122
not really sure how legit this quote is from the site i posted earlier but...
Dr. Dominick Purpura, dean of Albert Einstein Medical School, has been studying human brain development since 1974 with his research on mental retardation. Dr. Purpura emphasizes that there are a minimum number of neurons and synaptic connections that are necessary before the qualities of "humanness" and "personhood" can be developed and that this capacity begins to occur in the middle of the last trimester. Thus, about twenty-eight to thirty weeks in utero is the minimal time for the beginning of this capacity—"It can't begin earlier," according to Dr. Purpura.
so, the organs and stuff are in their basic forms earlier but it still takes a while for the being to develop into more than just a body with organs.
[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]Ummm... that's exactly what we've been discussing. Do you even know what a zygote is? It's the original cell formed when the semen meets the sperm. Semen is a liquid which may or may not contain sperm. Sperm are "dissolved".... You should know your biologies better.I think you shoudl as well. Or at least form better proofs. Your last awesome attack was merely statign that the original one celled Zygote that would eventually form into a human was undoubtedly alive. That is exactly what we have been disucussing. Taking something from before the point we are discussing and using that as 'proof' of your point makes absolutely no sense. My last question still remains: At what point do you think life begins? Why are semen not considered alive? IT doesn't matter if they are disolved or not. Every time you allow a semen to not reach the egg you are in fact knowlingly comitting murder. All you masturbaters should be put in jail for first degree mass murder.[QUOTE="curono"] By your definition, a zygote is not a LIFE. ZYGOTES CANT IN ANY WAY LIVE OUTSIDE THE WOMAN'S WOMB. ZYGOTES ARE NOT SELF SUSTAINING BIOLOGICAL ENTITIES. Thanks for giving me reason ;)curono
Umm no. you are missing my point completely. See these anti-abortionists and activists get the most horrific video they can find and use it to make their point. They paint a picture that every one of the incidents they are arguing against is exactly like the video they are showing you. And by 24 months I hope you mean 24 weeks. There is a debate abotu at which point an abortion should be illegal and at which point it should be legal. If scientists find that, as you state, 'life' begins in the embryo before the current border of legality that border will more than likely be moved back. As I asked before. where do you draw the line between when it is alive and when it is not alive? Are sperm alive? Everytime you do the monosex thing you are comitting murder.[QUOTE="RAGINGxPONY"]
Yeah since pro life people told the unborn baby to act scared right?
Yes it does think for itself, i'm not sure the exact date but i am 100% positive it is before 24 months which is the leagal date of abortion.
A baby is fully formed at 7-8 weeks, it has hands, legs, heart brain, everything, of course it still needs to grow after that though.
BumFluff122
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvshMADC7s0
Ok so let me get this straight. In this video it shows a 12 week old baby and how it is aborted. Regardless of whether or not it is that brutal everytime, you can see the 12 week baby thatknows its life is threatend.it heart starts to beat faster,it tries to escape. So your saying that these anti abortionist just found an extremely intelligent 12 week baby?
Maybe it isn't that brutal everytime(Which i think it is)regardless that video shows that a 12 week old baby, does have feelings, does think for itself, and is looks just like a new born baby.
I don't see exactly what point you are trying to make. The quote states that 'humaness' which I have been referring to as 'personhood' or 'consciousness' begins between twenty-eight and thirty weeks of pregnancy durign the middle of the last trimester. How excactly does that support your point?not really sure how legit this quote is from the site i posted earlier but...
Dr. Dominick Purpura, dean of Albert Einstein Medical School, has been studying human brain development since 1974 with his research on mental retardation. Dr. Purpura emphasizes that there are a minimum number of neurons and synaptic connections that are necessary before the qualities of "humanness" and "personhood" can be developed and that this capacity begins to occur in the middle of the last trimester. Thus, about twenty-eight to thirty weeks in utero is the minimal time for the beginning of this capacity—"It can't begin earlier," according to Dr. Purpura.
so, the organs and stuff are in their basic forms earlier but it still takes a while for the being to develop into more than just a body with organs.
bionicle_lover
Umm no. you are missing my point completely. See these anti-abortionists and activists get the most horrific video they can find and use it to make their point. They paint a picture that every one of the incidents they are arguing against is exactly like the video they are showing you. And by 24 months I hope you mean 24 weeks. There is a debate abotu at which point an abortion should be illegal and at which point it should be legal. If scientists find that, as you state, 'life' begins in the embryo before the current border of legality that border will more than likely be moved back. As I asked before. where do you draw the line between when it is alive and when it is not alive? Are sperm alive? Everytime you do the monosex thing you are comitting murder.[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]
[QUOTE="RAGINGxPONY"]
Yeah since pro life people told the unborn baby to act scared right?
Yes it does think for itself, i'm not sure the exact date but i am 100% positive it is before 24 months which is the leagal date of abortion.
A baby is fully formed at 7-8 weeks, it has hands, legs, heart brain, everything, of course it still needs to grow after that though.
bionicle_lover
not really sure how legit this quote is from the site i posted earlier but...
Dr. Dominick Purpura, dean of Albert Einstein Medical School, has been studying human brain development since 1974 with his research on mental retardation. Dr. Purpura emphasizes that there are a minimum number of neurons and synaptic connections that are necessary before the qualities of "humanness" and "personhood" can be developed and that this capacity begins to occur in the middle of the last trimester. Thus, about twenty-eight to thirty weeks in utero is the minimal time for the beginning of this capacity—"It can't begin earlier," according to Dr. Purpura.
so, the organs and stuff are in their basic forms earlier but it still takes a while for the being to develop into more than just a body with organs.
Ok regardless of what that doctor thinks/ says, if you watch the video which i just posted you will see that a 12 week old baby has feelings, and looks just like a small newborn baby.
Where is that doctor's proof, all i see is him saying something that he believes.
I don't see exactly what point you are trying to make. The quote states that 'humaness' which I have been referring to as 'personhood' or 'consciousness' begins between twenty-eight and thirty weeks of pregnancy durign the middle of the last trimester. How excactly does that support your point?[QUOTE="bionicle_lover"]
not really sure how legit this quote is from the site i posted earlier but...
Dr. Dominick Purpura, dean of Albert Einstein Medical School, has been studying human brain development since 1974 with his research on mental retardation. Dr. Purpura emphasizes that there are a minimum number of neurons and synaptic connections that are necessary before the qualities of "humanness" and "personhood" can be developed and that this capacity begins to occur in the middle of the last trimester. Thus, about twenty-eight to thirty weeks in utero is the minimal time for the beginning of this capacity—"It can't begin earlier," according to Dr. Purpura.
so, the organs and stuff are in their basic forms earlier but it still takes a while for the being to develop into more than just a body with organs.
BumFluff122
I'm on your side :D :D :D XP
I think you shoudl as well. Or at least form better proofs. Your last awesome attack was merely statign that the original one celled Zygote that would eventually form into a human was undoubtedly alive. That is exactly what we have been disucussing. Taking something from before the point we are discussing and using that as 'proof' of your point makes absolutely no sense. My last question still remains: At what point do you think life begins? Why are semen not considered alive? IT doesn't matter if they are disolved or not. Every time you allow a semen to not reach the egg you are in fact knowlingly comitting murder. All you masturbaters should be put in jail for first degree mass murder.
BumFluff122
Hold your horses Mr. :
Semen are not alive for the same fact that serum are not. Semen is a liquid, and it IS (not countable) it is impossible to say semen are (unless youy are talking about different types of). Second of all, semen is a liquid in which sperms ARE dissolved or imbued. You may have semen with or without sperm. Saying so, having water +carbohydrates + fats and other NON ALIVE components is alive, proves how little you know about this. Serum, just like semen may be a component of living beings, but not alive by itself.
SECOND OF ALL.
SEMEN DOES NOT ENTER THE EGG. SPERM ENTERS THE EGG. SEMEN IS THE RIVER WHERE THE LITTLE FISHES SWIM (if you wish to know analogies).
THIRD
It is not that "life starts". Every cell which originates cell is alive before conception, so that question already poses an answer.
FOURTH
All you masturbaters should be put in jail for first degree mass murder.
This, if you are serious, you are a fool. Even if men never masturbated, would still ejaculate. You must "discharge" your load, it is a natural process, therefore, we all are guilty of "MASS MURDER". And since the destroying of cells which creates human, females are "mass murderers as well". Since every period, an egg which is half of a human being is discarded, want it or not.
I don't see exactly what point you are trying to make. The quote states that 'humaness' which I have been referring to as 'personhood' or 'consciousness' begins between twenty-eight and thirty weeks of pregnancy durign the middle of the last trimester. How excactly does that support your point?[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]
[QUOTE="bionicle_lover"]
not really sure how legit this quote is from the site i posted earlier but...
Dr. Dominick Purpura, dean of Albert Einstein Medical School, has been studying human brain development since 1974 with his research on mental retardation. Dr. Purpura emphasizes that there are a minimum number of neurons and synaptic connections that are necessary before the qualities of "humanness" and "personhood" can be developed and that this capacity begins to occur in the middle of the last trimester. Thus, about twenty-eight to thirty weeks in utero is the minimal time for the beginning of this capacity—"It can't begin earlier," according to Dr. Purpura.
so, the organs and stuff are in their basic forms earlier but it still takes a while for the being to develop into more than just a body with organs.
bionicle_lover
I'm on your side :D :D :D XP
oh alright lol.[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]
I think you shoudl as well. Or at least form better proofs. Your last awesome attack was merely statign that the original one celled Zygote that would eventually form into a human was undoubtedly alive. That is exactly what we have been disucussing. Taking something from before the point we are discussing and using that as 'proof' of your point makes absolutely no sense. My last question still remains: At what point do you think life begins? Why are semen not considered alive? IT doesn't matter if they are disolved or not. Every time you allow a semen to not reach the egg you are in fact knowlingly comitting murder. All you masturbaters should be put in jail for first degree mass murder.
curono
Hold your horses Mr. :
Semen are not alive for the same fact that serum are not. Semen is a liquid, and it IS (not countable) it is impossible to say semen are (unless youy are talking about different types of). Second of all, semen is a liquid in which sperms ARE dissolved or imbued. You may have semen with or without sperm. Saying so, having water +carbohydrates + fats and other NON ALIVE components is alive, proves how little you know about this. Serum, just like semen may be a component of living beings, but not alive by itself.
SECOND OF ALL.
SEMEN DOES NOT ENTER THE EGG. SPERM ENTERS THE EGG. SEMEN IS THE RIVER WHERE THE LITTLE FISHES SWIM (if you wish to know analogies).
THIRD
It is not that "life starts". Every cell which originates cell is alive before conception, so that question already poses an answer.
FOURTH
All you masturbaters should be put in jail for first degree mass murder.
This, if you are serious, you are a fool. Even if men never masturbated, would still ejaculate. You must "discharge" your load, it is a natural process, therefore, we all are guilty of "MASS MURDER". And since the destroying of cells which creates human, females are "mass murderers as well". Since every period, an egg which is half of a human being is discarded, want it or not.
I think you know what I meant. And again you are completely missing my point. I asked AT WHAT POINT DOES LIFE BEGIN? If you consider a zygote alive then why not what came before the zygote was formed? You are completely missing the point I am making. Good job.[QUOTE="bionicle_lover"]
[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]Umm no. you are missing my point completely. See these anti-abortionists and activists get the most horrific video they can find and use it to make their point. They paint a picture that every one of the incidents they are arguing against is exactly like the video they are showing you. And by 24 months I hope you mean 24 weeks. There is a debate abotu at which point an abortion should be illegal and at which point it should be legal. If scientists find that, as you state, 'life' begins in the embryo before the current border of legality that border will more than likely be moved back. As I asked before. where do you draw the line between when it is alive and when it is not alive? Are sperm alive? Everytime you do the monosex thing you are comitting murder.
RAGINGxPONY
not really sure how legit this quote is from the site i posted earlier but...
Dr. Dominick Purpura, dean of Albert Einstein Medical School, has been studying human brain development since 1974 with his research on mental retardation. Dr. Purpura emphasizes that there are a minimum number of neurons and synaptic connections that are necessary before the qualities of "humanness" and "personhood" can be developed and that this capacity begins to occur in the middle of the last trimester. Thus, about twenty-eight to thirty weeks in utero is the minimal time for the beginning of this capacity—"It can't begin earlier," according to Dr. Purpura.
so, the organs and stuff are in their basic forms earlier but it still takes a while for the being to develop into more than just a body with organs.
Ok regardless of what that doctor thinks/ says, if you watch the video which i just posted you will see that a 12 week old baby has feelings, and looks just like a small newborn baby.
Where is that doctor's proof, all i see is him saying something that he believes.
Clearly your emotion feuled opinion is far more informed than that of a medical doctors likely unbiased opinion!
I did watch the video. As I've stated before I agree with abortion up to a certain point. An embryo that is not self concious is not alive, has no feelings, has no brain power, has nothign that would make it be called alive. If an embryo reacts that way at that stage of development then perhaps the stage of development at which a mother should be allowed to get an abortion should be moved back. But that still does not take away from the fact that an embryo is not sentient from conception. Once the sentianece, or personhood if you will, forms in that embryo at that pooint abortion should be illegal.Ok regardless of what that doctor thinks/ says, if you watch the video which i just posted you will see that a 12 week old baby has feelings, and looks just like a small newborn baby.
Where is that doctor's proof, all i see is him saying something that he believes.
RAGINGxPONY
[QUOTE="curono"]
[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]
I think you shoudl as well. Or at least form better proofs. Your last awesome attack was merely statign that the original one celled Zygote that would eventually form into a human was undoubtedly alive. That is exactly what we have been disucussing. Taking something from before the point we are discussing and using that as 'proof' of your point makes absolutely no sense. My last question still remains: At what point do you think life begins? Why are semen not considered alive? IT doesn't matter if they are disolved or not. Every time you allow a semen to not reach the egg you are in fact knowlingly comitting murder. All you masturbaters should be put in jail for first degree mass murder.
BumFluff122
Hold your horses Mr. :
Semen are not alive for the same fact that serum are not. Semen is a liquid, and it IS (not countable) it is impossible to say semen are (unless youy are talking about different types of). Second of all, semen is a liquid in which sperms ARE dissolved or imbued. You may have semen with or without sperm. Saying so, having water +carbohydrates + fats and other NON ALIVE components is alive, proves how little you know about this. Serum, just like semen may be a component of living beings, but not alive by itself.
SECOND OF ALL.
SEMEN DOES NOT ENTER THE EGG. SPERM ENTERS THE EGG. SEMEN IS THE RIVER WHERE THE LITTLE FISHES SWIM (if you wish to know analogies).
THIRD
It is not that "life starts". Every cell which originates cell is alive before conception, so that question already poses an answer.
FOURTH
All you masturbaters should be put in jail for first degree mass murder.
This, if you are serious, you are a fool. Even if men never masturbated, would still ejaculate. You must "discharge" your load, it is a natural process, therefore, we all are guilty of "MASS MURDER". And since the destroying of cells which creates human, females are "mass murderers as well". Since every period, an egg which is half of a human being is discarded, want it or not.
I think you know what I meant. And again you are completely missing my point. I asked AT WHAT POINT DOES LIFE BEGIN? If you consider a zygote alive then why not what came before the zygote was formed? You are completely missing the point I am making. Good job. If I am to discuss something with someone, he/she should know something about the theme. You have proven you dont. Not worth to waste my time discussing a theme with someone who is ignorant on the subject.[QUOTE="RAGINGxPONY"]
[QUOTE="bionicle_lover"]
not really sure how legit this quote is from the site i posted earlier but...
Dr. Dominick Purpura, dean of Albert Einstein Medical School, has been studying human brain development since 1974 with his research on mental retardation. Dr. Purpura emphasizes that there are a minimum number of neurons and synaptic connections that are necessary before the qualities of "humanness" and "personhood" can be developed and that this capacity begins to occur in the middle of the last trimester. Thus, about twenty-eight to thirty weeks in utero is the minimal time for the beginning of this capacity—"It can't begin earlier," according to Dr. Purpura.
so, the organs and stuff are in their basic forms earlier but it still takes a while for the being to develop into more than just a body with organs.
Pixel-Pirate
Ok regardless of what that doctor thinks/ says, if you watch the video which i just posted you will see that a 12 week old baby has feelings, and looks just like a small newborn baby.
Where is that doctor's proof, all i see is him saying something that he believes.
Clearly your emotion feuled opinion is far more informed than that of a medical doctors likely unbiased opinion!
Uhhh, where did i say that? That doctor did not show any proof to back up his claim... I'm sure i could find some doctors that will disagree with that doctor.
[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]
[QUOTE="RAGINGxPONY"]
Ok regardless of what that doctor thinks/ says, if you watch the video which i just posted you will see that a 12 week old baby has feelings, and looks just like a small newborn baby.
Where is that doctor's proof, all i see is him saying something that he believes.
RAGINGxPONY
Clearly your emotion feuled opinion is far more informed than that of a medical doctors likely unbiased opinion!
Uhhh, where did i say that? That doctor did not show any proof to back up his claim... I'm sure i could find some doctors that will disagree with that doctor.
Indeed he does not prove it but I am inclined to believe a man with a medical degree studying something for several decades has more knowledge on the subject than a guy who once saw a video that upset them and now hates abortions.
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