If murder is illegal, why isn't abortion?

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]No. Pro-choice doesnt mean you think abortions are okay nor that you wish that they happen. It means you realise that they are in some cases a necessary evil.

Necessary evil =/= okay. Is that clear enough?

Teenaged

Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life.

If it were, I wouldnt call it a necessary evil, now would I?

Therefore we can conclude that pro-choice people are not pro-abortion in the emotional "shade" you want to portray it.

They dont wish for abortions to happen and neither do they think its something good. As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases.

"As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases."

Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life.

As I stated Above.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="_BlueDuck_"]

You need a lot more than pain receptors to feel pain. You need a completed wired nervous system.

Also note there are mental/psychological requirements for processing pain as well.

_BlueDuck_

Pain receptors send information to the brain.

"When pain messages reach your spinal cord, they meet up with specialized nerve cells that act as gatekeepers, which filter the pain messages on their way to your brain. For severe pain that's linked to bodily harm, such as when you touch a hot stove, the "gate" is wide open, and the messages take an express route to your brain."

And a fetus lacks the physical pathways and structures to complete that circuit.

Anyhow, whether or not a fetus feels pain is irrelevant, since it's a rights based argument.

"And a fetus lacks the physical pathways and structures to complete that circuit."

How do you know?

[QUOTE="_BlueDuck_"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Pain receptors send information to the brain.

"When pain messages reach your spinal cord, they meet up with specialized nerve cells that act as gatekeepers, which filter the pain messages on their way to your brain. For severe pain that's linked to bodily harm, such as when you touch a hot stove, the "gate" is wide open, and the messages take an express route to your brain."

Snipes_2

And a fetus lacks the physical pathways and structures to complete that circuit.

Anyhow, whether or not a fetus feels pain is irrelevant, since it's a rights based argument.

"And a fetus lacks the physical pathways and structures to complete that circuit."

How do you know?

Because I've taken biology classes.

[QUOTE="binpink"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

"Pro-Choice" is the same as "Pro-Abortion". You encourage women to Choose an abortion, that is, you give them the option.

Snipes_2

Congrats. You win the award for the absolute worst thing I've heard all day.

And if you're thinking along those lines, by being anti-choice, you are pro-discrimination and anti-equality. How you can look any woman you love in the face and tell her she isn't worth as much as you are is beyond me.

I can say you won this same "Award". Your argument is illogical. Nowhere in that sentence did I say I was worth more than another human. By being Pro-Choice you are Anti-Equality. By being Anti-Equality you feel the Fetus is not equal to a human being. You are also discriminating against another Human. How's that?

You don't have to say you're worth more than a woman in those exact words, it's expressed in your pro-life stance. You want to take away the reproductive choices of women, right? Are any reproductive choices being taken away from men? NO. That's called inequality and sets a gross standard for the treatment of women. You insist upon seeing only the "life" side of the story, why won't you consider the "rights" aspect? I'm not illogical for thinking a fetus doesn't have the same rights as an adult or even born human being. It's a fetus and I'm allowed to an opinion. I have no problem discriminating against a fetus if it means protecting women. It's sad to know that you truly don't believe you're discriminating against women and that you could believe only men deserve reproductive freedom. You might not like to admit it but pro-life comes with a heavy price to women.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life.

Snipes_2

If it were, I wouldnt call it a necessary evil, now would I?

Therefore we can conclude that pro-choice people are not pro-abortion in the emotional "shade" you want to portray it.

They dont wish for abortions to happen and neither do they think its something good. As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases.

"As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases."

Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life.

As I stated Above.

Are you gonna agree with me again, while thinking you disagree with me? >___>

Cause this is getting ridiculous by now.

Your claim was that pro-choice means pro-abortion. I showed how that is not the case. Especially in the way you presented it as if the pro-choice people are cruel, insensitive humans that dont value human life.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Pro-Choice is the same as Pro-Abortion. You promote Abortion. The "Right To Choose" is what you're giving women. The Right to choose if their child lives or dies, which is not up to them to decide.

binpink

Explain to me how YOU or the government have the right to control my uterus and mental health. Why do you feel you're so much better than me that you'd want to force your beliefs upon me?

Wow, Lol. Was this Topic not about our Opinions? I am stating mine, you chose to start an argument trying to refute it. So In fact, you are forcing your beliefs upon me.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life.

Snipes_2

If it were, I wouldnt call it a necessary evil, now would I?

Therefore we can conclude that pro-choice people are not pro-abortion in the emotional "shade" you want to portray it.

They dont wish for abortions to happen and neither do they think its something good. As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases.

"As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases."

Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life.

As I stated Above.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="binpink"]

Congrats. You win the award for the absolute worst thing I've heard all day.

And if you're thinking along those lines, by being anti-choice, you are pro-discrimination and anti-equality. How you can look any woman you love in the face and tell her she isn't worth as much as you are is beyond me.

binpink

I can say you won this same "Award". Your argument is illogical. Nowhere in that sentence did I say I was worth more than another human. By being Pro-Choice you are Anti-Equality. By being Anti-Equality you feel the Fetus is not equal to a human being. You are also discriminating against another Human. How's that?

You don't have to say you're worth more than a woman in those exact words, it's expressed in your pro-life stance. You want to take away the reproductive choices of women, right? Are any reproductive choices being taken away from men? NO. That's called inequality and sets a gross standard for the treatment of women. You insist upon seeing only the "life" side of the story, why won't you consider the "rights" aspect? I'm not illogical for thinking a fetus doesn't have the same rights as an adult or even born human being. It's a fetus and I'm allowed to an opinion. I have no problem discriminating against a fetus if it means protecting women. It's sad to know that you truly don't believe you're discriminating against women and that you could believe only men deserve reproductive freedom. You might not like to admit it but pro-life comes with a heavy price to women.

I never said men deserve "Reproductive Freedom". They are equally responsible. A Fetus is a Human Being, It Lives and Breathes, it even has a Brain. Women choose to get pregnant by consenting to the act. How is it discriminating against women if I believe they shouldn't commit murder?

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Did I say it is ok? No. I thought the equation was more than blatantly clear. >__>

If it were, I wouldnt call it a necessary evil, now would I?

Therefore we can conclude that pro-choice people are not pro-abortion in the emotional "shade" you want to portray it.

They dont wish for abortions to happen and neither do they think its something good. As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases.

warbmxjohn

"As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases."

Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life.

As I stated Above.

Was I stating it as a Fact? No. I was stating it as my stance on the afore mentioned statement.

[QUOTE="binpink"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I can say you won this same "Award". Your argument is illogical. Nowhere in that sentence did I say I was worth more than another human. By being Pro-Choice you are Anti-Equality. By being Anti-Equality you feel the Fetus is not equal to a human being. You are also discriminating against another Human. How's that?

Snipes_2

You don't have to say you're worth more than a woman in those exact words, it's expressed in your pro-life stance. You want to take away the reproductive choices of women, right? Are any reproductive choices being taken away from men? NO. That's called inequality and sets a gross standard for the treatment of women. You insist upon seeing only the "life" side of the story, why won't you consider the "rights" aspect? I'm not illogical for thinking a fetus doesn't have the same rights as an adult or even born human being. It's a fetus and I'm allowed to an opinion. I have no problem discriminating against a fetus if it means protecting women. It's sad to know that you truly don't believe you're discriminating against women and that you could believe only men deserve reproductive freedom. You might not like to admit it but pro-life comes with a heavy price to women.

I never said men deserve "Reproductive Freedom". They are equally responsible. A Fetus is a Human Being, It Lives and Breathes, it even has a Brain. Women choose to get pregnant by consenting to the act. How is it discriminating against women if I believe they shouldn't commit murder?

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Did I say it is ok? No. I thought the equation was more than blatantly clear. >__>

If it were, I wouldnt call it a necessary evil, now would I?

Therefore we can conclude that pro-choice people are not pro-abortion in the emotional "shade" you want to portray it.

They dont wish for abortions to happen and neither do they think its something good. As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases.

Teenaged

"As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases."

Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life.

As I stated Above.

Are you gonna agree with me again, while thinking you disagree with me? >___>

Cause this is getting ridiculous by now.

Your claim was that pro-choice means pro-abortion. I showed how that is not the case. Especially in the way you presented it as if the pro-choice people are cruel, insensitive humans that dont value human life.

"Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life."

How is this sentence agreeing with your statement pray-tell?

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="binpink"]

You don't have to say you're worth more than a woman in those exact words, it's expressed in your pro-life stance. You want to take away the reproductive choices of women, right? Are any reproductive choices being taken away from men? NO. That's called inequality and sets a gross standard for the treatment of women. You insist upon seeing only the "life" side of the story, why won't you consider the "rights" aspect? I'm not illogical for thinking a fetus doesn't have the same rights as an adult or even born human being. It's a fetus and I'm allowed to an opinion. I have no problem discriminating against a fetus if it means protecting women. It's sad to know that you truly don't believe you're discriminating against women and that you could believe only men deserve reproductive freedom. You might not like to admit it but pro-life comes with a heavy price to women.

Teenaged

I never said men deserve "Reproductive Freedom". They are equally responsible. A Fetus is a Human Being, It Lives and Breathes, it even has a Brain. Women choose to get pregnant by consenting to the act. How is it discriminating against women if I believe they shouldn't commit murder?

Honestly, They still have a Living and Breathing Human inside of them. It's the same as if they commit abortion when they DO consent. IT's still alive, it's still murder.

[QUOTE="binpink"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Pro-Choice is the same as Pro-Abortion. You promote Abortion. The "Right To Choose" is what you're giving women. The Right to choose if their child lives or dies, which is not up to them to decide.

Snipes_2

Explain to me how YOU or the government have the right to control my uterus and mental health. Why do you feel you're so much better than me that you'd want to force your beliefs upon me?

Wow, Lol. Was this Topic not about our Opinions? I am stating mine, you chose to start an argument trying to refute it. So In fact, you are forcing your beliefs upon me.

Oops. I guess I overestimated you. The word "explain" does not indicate an argument. It is a request for information. The question mark at the end of my second sentence indicates I was seeking a response to the stated question. Since you misunderstood both and aren't capable of providing an actual answer for either, I'll discontinue further talks with you, as they obviously aren't getting anywhere.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

"As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases."

Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life.

As I stated Above.

Snipes_2

Are you gonna agree with me again, while thinking you disagree with me? >___>

Cause this is getting ridiculous by now.

Your claim was that pro-choice means pro-abortion. I showed how that is not the case. Especially in the way you presented it as if the pro-choice people are cruel, insensitive humans that dont value human life.

"Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life."

How is this sentence agreeing with your statement pray-tell?

Now whether or not the necessary evil not being okay matters in the end despite all the other factors you choose to ignore is another issue. Therefore simply by stating "its not okay" doesnt determine anything at all, and it is a view formed by ignoring several factors under which many abortions happen.

Furthermore, let me remind you once more that our debate was about the term pro-abortion.

Dont change the line of argument to avoid to admit that your case is unsubstanciated when you use such terms to invoke emotions.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I never said men deserve "Reproductive Freedom". They are equally responsible. A Fetus is a Human Being, It Lives and Breathes, it even has a Brain. Women choose to get pregnant by consenting to the act. How is it discriminating against women if I believe they shouldn't commit murder?

Snipes_2

Honestly, They still have a Living and Breathing Human inside of them. It's the same as if they commit abortion when they DO consent. IT's still alive, it's still murder.

And no its not the same. Just because you say it is the same doesnt make it true. In the slightest. Like I said before you can choose to use the "appropriate" words and make the appropriate equations that justify your opinion. That doesnt make neither the use of words nor the equations any less false than they are.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="binpink"]

Explain to me how YOU or the government have the right to control my uterus and mental health. Why do you feel you're so much better than me that you'd want to force your beliefs upon me?

binpink

Wow, Lol. Was this Topic not about our Opinions? I am stating mine, you chose to start an argument trying to refute it. So In fact, you are forcing your beliefs upon me.

Oops. I guess I overestimated you. The word "explain" does not indicate an argument. It is a request for information. The question mark at the end of my second sentence indicates I was seeking a response to the stated question. Since you misunderstood both and aren't capable of providing an actual answer for either, I'll discontinue further talks with you, as they obviously aren't getting anywhere.

Lol, You lost your argument so you act like you're intelligence is great than mine?

"Why do you feel you're so much better than me that you'd want to force your beliefs upon me?"

Response: "I am stating mine, you chose to start an argument trying to refute it. So In fact, you are forcing your beliefs upon me."

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Not in rape.............. -_-

Teenaged

Honestly, They still have a Living and Breathing Human inside of them. It's the same as if they commit abortion when they DO consent. IT's still alive, it's still murder.

And no its not the same. Just because you say it is the same doesnt make it true. In the slightest. Like I said before you can choose to use the "appropriate" words and make the appropriate equations that justify your opinion. That doesnt make neither the use of words nor the equations any less false than they are.

I am not going to "Retract" my statement. Again, I'm dealing within the legal parameters. Rape is not legal, therefore I did not include it.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

The Fetus is a Living and Breathing organism. Why else would it need nutrients? I don't know, to continue living maybe?

Snipes_2

VArious parts of the body need nutrients so the cells within can continue to function. Same with the Fetus, it is living, it has cells, it needs nutrients to function.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Honestly, They still have a Living and Breathing Human inside of them. It's the same as if they commit abortion when they DO consent. IT's still alive, it's still murder.

Snipes_2

And no its not the same. Just because you say it is the same doesnt make it true. In the slightest. Like I said before you can choose to use the "appropriate" words and make the appropriate equations that justify your opinion. That doesnt make neither the use of words nor the equations any less false than they are.

I am not going to "Retract" my statement. Again, I'm dealing within the legal parameters. Rape is not legal, therefore I did not include it.

In your previous post you told me that "It's the same as if they commit abortion when they DO consent.", in effect including it in your statement.

Nice try though in eluding the obvious implications of your posts.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]*facepalm*

Are you gonna agree with me again, while thinking you disagree with me? >___>

Cause this is getting ridiculous by now.

Your claim was that pro-choice means pro-abortion. I showed how that is not the case. Especially in the way you presented it as if the pro-choice people are cruel, insensitive humans that dont value human life.

Teenaged

"Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life."

How is this sentence agreeing with your statement pray-tell?

Now whether or not the necessary evil not being okay matters in the end despite all the other factors you choose to ignore is another issue. Therefore simply by stating "its not okay" doesnt determine anything at all, and it is a view formed by ignoring several factors under which many abortions happen.

Furthermore, let me remind you once more that our debate was about the term pro-abortion.

Dont change the line of argument to avoid to admit that your case is unsubstanciated when you use such terms to invoke emotions.

"Furthermore, let me remind you once more that our debate was about the term pro-abortion.

Dont change the line of argument to avoid to admit that your case is unsubstanciated when you use such terms to invoke emotions."

You changed the argument with this sentence: "As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases."

How is replying to this "Changing the Line of the Argument"?

My case is completely substantiated, you, being on the other side of the spectrum just can't see it. I posted multiple sites stating that a Fetus is Living, what week women choose to abort their child, etc.. YOu still have yet to post a single reliable source for your argument. Again.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]The red part of your post is false, regardless. If you want retract the statement; dont change the argument.

And no its not the same. Just because you say it is the same doesnt make it true. In the slightest. Like I said before you can choose to use the "appropriate" words and make the appropriate equations that justify your opinion. That doesnt make neither the use of words nor the equations any less false than they are.

Teenaged

I am not going to "Retract" my statement. Again, I'm dealing within the legal parameters. Rape is not legal, therefore I did not include it.

In your previous post you told me that "It's the same as if they commit abortion when they DO consent.", in effect including it in your statement.

Nice try though in eluding the obvious implications of your posts.

How is saying abortion through Rape is the same as Abortion through other means contradicting myself? In that sentence I was replying to a previous posters remarks. IT was posted after the original. Nice try though.

My Post: "I never said men deserve "Reproductive Freedom". They are equally responsible. A Fetus is a Human Being, It Lives and Breathes, it even has a Brain.Women choose to get pregnant by consenting to the act.How is it discriminating against women if I believe they shouldn't commit murder?"

Reply to Poster: "Honestly, They still have a Living and Breathing Human inside of them. It's the same as if they commit abortion when they DO consent. IT's still alive, it's still murder."

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="_BlueDuck_"]

And a fetus lacks the physical pathways and structures to complete that circuit.

Anyhow, whether or not a fetus feels pain is irrelevant, since it's a rights based argument.

_BlueDuck_

"And a fetus lacks the physical pathways and structures to complete that circuit."

How do you know?

Because I've taken biology classes.

How can you explain the sources I posted stating that a Fetus does have feeling?

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

"Necessary Evil is not Okay when it involves another Humans Life."

How is this sentence agreeing with your statement pray-tell?

Snipes_2

Now whether or not the necessary evil not being okay matters in the end despite all the other factors you choose to ignore is another issue. Therefore simply by stating "its not okay" doesnt determine anything at all, and it is a view formed by ignoring several factors under which many abortions happen.

Furthermore, let me remind you once more that our debate was about the term pro-abortion.

Dont change the line of argument to avoid to admit that your case is unsubstanciated when you use such terms to invoke emotions.

"Furthermore, let me remind you once more that our debate was about the term pro-abortion.

Dont change the line of argument to avoid to admit that your case is unsubstanciated when you use such terms to invoke emotions."

You changed the argument with this sentence: "As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases."

How is replying to this "Changing the Line of the Argument"?

My case is completely substantiated, you, being on the other side of the spectrum just can't see it. I posted multiple sites stating that a Fetus is Living, what week women choose to abort their child, etc.. YOu still have yet to post a single reliable source for your argument. Again.

After you couldnt debate that pro-choice people are pro-abortion you chose to change the debate into whether or not a necessary evil is acceptable. Thats a different issue you started to avoid the previous one.

Your stance is not substanciated simply by reiterating the statement that it is. Youmade claims you cannot support because clearly you have never asked a person that is pro-choice and therefore you made your own assumptions that work perfectly for you and the justification of your "hostile" stance towards pro-choice people. Which is not even necessary to be so militant even if you dont agree but I guess its a trend to deny to see where the opposition is coming from. Not my problem though.

I never made an argument as to whether or not the fetus is living/sentient/has rights or any of the sort. You are again changing the argument.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I am not going to "Retract" my statement. Again, I'm dealing within the legal parameters. Rape is not legal, therefore I did not include it.

Snipes_2

In your previous post you told me that "It's the same as if they commit abortion when they DO consent.", in effect including it in your statement.

Nice try though in eluding the obvious implications of your posts.

How is saying abortion through Rape is the same as Abortion through other means contradicting myself? In that sentence I was replying to a previous posters remarks. IT was posted after the original. Nice try though.

In one post you are talking as if you do include it and then you tell me that you didnt include it. How is that not a contradiction?

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Because I already stated that.

Now whether or not the necessary evil not being okay matters in the end despite all the other factors you choose to ignore is another issue. Therefore simply by stating "its not okay" doesnt determine anything at all, and it is a view formed by ignoring several factors under which many abortions happen.

Furthermore, let me remind you once more that our debate was about the term pro-abortion.

Dont change the line of argument to avoid to admit that your case is unsubstanciated when you use such terms to invoke emotions.

Teenaged

"Furthermore, let me remind you once more that our debate was about the term pro-abortion.

Dont change the line of argument to avoid to admit that your case is unsubstanciated when you use such terms to invoke emotions."

You changed the argument with this sentence: "As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases."

How is replying to this "Changing the Line of the Argument"?

My case is completely substantiated, you, being on the other side of the spectrum just can't see it. I posted multiple sites stating that a Fetus is Living, what week women choose to abort their child, etc.. YOu still have yet to post a single reliable source for your argument. Again.

After you couldnt debate that pro-choice people are pro-abortion you chose to change the debate into whether or not a necessary evil is acceptable. Thats a different issue you started to avoid the previous one.

Your stance is not substanciated simply by reiterating the statement that it is. Youmade claims you cannot support because clearly you have never asked a person that is pro-choice and therefore you made your own assumptions that work perfectly for you and the justification of your "hostile" stance towards pro-choice people. Which is not even necessary to be so militant even if you dont agree but I guess its a trend to deny to see where the opposition is coming from. Not my problem though.

I never made an argument as to whether or not the fetus is living/sentient/has rights or any of the sort. You are again changing the argument.

Actually, I have spoken to "Pro-Choice" people. You all formulate the same argument.

"After you couldnt debate that pro-choice people are pro-abortion you chose to change the debate into whether or not a necessary evil is acceptable. Thats a different issue you started to avoid the previous one."

No, You said it was "A Necessary Evil". I posted why it was still wrong.

"Which is not even necessary to be so militant even if you dont agree but I guess its a trend to deny to see where the opposition is coming from. Not my problem though.

I never made an argument as to whether or not the fetus is living/sentient/has rights or any of the sort. You are again changing the argument."

No, Again, I posted why abortion was wrong. I posted in response to your "Necessary Evil".

How is my stance "Hostile". I'm not the one that started an argument over another opinion.

Plus Hostile means :not friendly, warm, or generous; not hospitable.

I think I replied to every other poster who disagreed with me courteously.

"It is a contradiction because right after that you told me that you didnt include abortion due to rape in your statement.

In one post you are talking as if you do include it and then you tell me that you didnt include it. How is that not a contradiction?"

IT's not a contradiction because I was replying to another posters remarks. I stated that Abortion is Abortion, no matter what the premises.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

"Furthermore, let me remind you once more that our debate was about the term pro-abortion.

Dont change the line of argument to avoid to admit that your case is unsubstanciated when you use such terms to invoke emotions."

You changed the argument with this sentence: "As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases."

How is replying to this "Changing the Line of the Argument"?

My case is completely substantiated, you, being on the other side of the spectrum just can't see it. I posted multiple sites stating that a Fetus is Living, what week women choose to abort their child, etc.. YOu still have yet to post a single reliable source for your argument. Again.

Snipes_2

After you couldnt debate that pro-choice people are pro-abortion you chose to change the debate into whether or not a necessary evil is acceptable. Thats a different issue you started to avoid the previous one.

Your stance is not substanciated simply by reiterating the statement that it is. Youmade claims you cannot support because clearly you have never asked a person that is pro-choice and therefore you made your own assumptions that work perfectly for you and the justification of your "hostile" stance towards pro-choice people. Which is not even necessary to be so militant even if you dont agree but I guess its a trend to deny to see where the opposition is coming from. Not my problem though.

I never made an argument as to whether or not the fetus is living/sentient/has rights or any of the sort. You are again changing the argument.

1. Actually, I have spoken to "Pro-Choice" people. You all formulate the same argument.

"After you couldnt debate that pro-choice people are pro-abortion you chose to change the debate into whether or not a necessary evil is acceptable. Thats a different issue you started to avoid the previous one."

2. No, You said it was "A Necessary Evil". I posted why it was still wrong.

"Which is not even necessary to be so militant even if you dont agree but I guess its a trend to deny to see where the opposition is coming from. Not my problem though.

I never made an argument as to whether or not the fetus is living/sentient/has rights or any of the sort. You are again changing the argument."

3. No, Again, I posted why abortion was wrong. I posted in response to your "Necessary Evil".

4. How is my stance "Hostile". I'm not the one that started an argument over another opinion.

Plus Hostile means :not friendly, warm, or generous; not hospitable.

I think I replied to every other poster who disagreed with me courteously.

2. The argument was not whether or not the pro-choice is generally wrong but your claim that people that are pro-choice are pro-abortion. I clearly showed how that is not the case.

3. This has nothing to do with your claim that pro-choice people are pro-abortion. A claim which is false.

4. Thats why I put the word in quotation marks. >______________>

What I meant by the word is that usually pro-lifers view pro-choice people as insensitive (or even cruel) people, that take the matter lightly, or even dont value human life. That by definition is not an approach that can be characterised as honest or substanciated.

The above notion is false. But some pro-lifers continue to believe that way because filtering the opposition with emotions, helps them in not seeing where the oposition is coming from and thus not understanding their motives; andlastly all this helps in having supposedly strengthened their argumentation by seeing and projecting pro-choice people as heartless monsters.

"It is a contradiction because right after that you told me that you didnt include abortion due to rape in your statement.

In one post you are talking as if you do include it and then you tell me that you didnt include it. How is that not a contradiction?"

IT's not a contradiction because I was replying to another posters remarks. I stated that Abortion is Abortion, no matter what the premises.

Snipes_2

Not my problem, honestly. Your post was quoting me and nothing hinted that you were arguing somebody else.

In fact I dont really believe you that you were responding to someone else, but whatever...

Ooh this topic makes my brain hurt. T_T

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

"Furthermore, let me remind you once more that our debate was about the term pro-abortion.

Dont change the line of argument to avoid to admit that your case is unsubstanciated when you use such terms to invoke emotions."

You changed the argument with this sentence: "As I said before, its a necessary evil in some cases."

How is replying to this "Changing the Line of the Argument"?

My case is completely substantiated, you, being on the other side of the spectrum just can't see it. I posted multiple sites stating that a Fetus is Living, what week women choose to abort their child, etc.. YOu still have yet to post a single reliable source for your argument. Again.

Lilyanne46

After you couldnt debate that pro-choice people are pro-abortion you chose to change the debate into whether or not a necessary evil is acceptable. Thats a different issue you started to avoid the previous one.

Your stance is not substanciated simply by reiterating the statement that it is. Youmade claims you cannot support because clearly you have never asked a person that is pro-choice and therefore you made your own assumptions that work perfectly for you and the justification of your "hostile" stance towards pro-choice people. Which is not even necessary to be so militant even if you dont agree but I guess its a trend to deny to see where the opposition is coming from. Not my problem though.

I never made an argument as to whether or not the fetus is living/sentient/has rights or any of the sort. You are again changing the argument.

No, he never did. You're just trying to change the subject slyly, so you can get people to agree with you. To be honest that didn't touch me one bit.

The woman has the choice of abortion because she needs it. Without abortion, there could be many deaths associated with birth, because bodies are sometimes too weak to handle it.

Ugh, Another person to argue with. I said it was Living, breathing, etc.. In response to Abortion being a NECESSARY evil. It is not necessary. And Most women do not die from childbirth.

"Though the risk of death is very small, experts believe increasing maternal obesity and a jump in Caesarean sections are partly to blame."

" Death from childbirth remains fairly rare in the United States. The death ofinfantsis much more common — the nation's infant mortality rate was 679 per 100,000 live births in 2004."

Source:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20427256/

Ugh, Another person to argue with. I said it was Living, breathing, etc.. In response to Abortion being a NECESSARY evil. It is not necessary. And Most women do not die from childbirth.

"Though the risk of death is very small, experts believe increasing maternal obesity and a jump in Caesarean sections are partly to blame."

" Death from childbirth remains fairly rare in the United States. The death ofinfantsis much more common — the nation's infant mortality rate was 679 per 100,000 live births in 2004."

Source:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20427256/

Snipes_2

We are not interested in "most". Many women have abortions for reasons like rape, or a dangerous pregnancy or other reasons where its not the whim of the woman that wants to have the abortion. If you want you can go ahead and deny that those cases matter, perhaps to keep your argumentation solid; I wont.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]The characterisation of "necessary evil" summarises how I, and many pro-choice people view abortion, thus refuting your statement that pro-choice people are pro-abortion. It was very relevant.

After you couldnt debate that pro-choice people are pro-abortion you chose to change the debate into whether or not a necessary evil is acceptable. Thats a different issue you started to avoid the previous one.

Your stance is not substanciated simply by reiterating the statement that it is. Youmade claims you cannot support because clearly you have never asked a person that is pro-choice and therefore you made your own assumptions that work perfectly for you and the justification of your "hostile" stance towards pro-choice people. Which is not even necessary to be so militant even if you dont agree but I guess its a trend to deny to see where the opposition is coming from. Not my problem though.

I never made an argument as to whether or not the fetus is living/sentient/has rights or any of the sort. You are again changing the argument.

Teenaged

1. Actually, I have spoken to "Pro-Choice" people. You all formulate the same argument.

"After you couldnt debate that pro-choice people are pro-abortion you chose to change the debate into whether or not a necessary evil is acceptable. Thats a different issue you started to avoid the previous one."

2. No, You said it was "A Necessary Evil". I posted why it was still wrong.

"Which is not even necessary to be so militant even if you dont agree but I guess its a trend to deny to see where the opposition is coming from. Not my problem though.

I never made an argument as to whether or not the fetus is living/sentient/has rights or any of the sort. You are again changing the argument."

3. No, Again, I posted why abortion was wrong. I posted in response to your "Necessary Evil".

4. How is my stance "Hostile". I'm not the one that started an argument over another opinion.

Plus Hostile means :not friendly, warm, or generous; not hospitable.

I think I replied to every other poster who disagreed with me courteously.

2. The argument was not whether or not the pro-choice is generally wrong but your claim that people that are pro-choice are pro-abortion. I clearly showed how that is not the case.

3. This has nothing to do with your claim that pro-choice people are pro-abortion. A claim which is false.

4. Thats why I put the word in quotation marks. >______________>

What I meant by the word is that usually pro-lifers view pro-choice people as insensitive (or even cruel) people, that take the matter lightly, or even dont value human life. That by definition is not an approach that can be characterised as honest or substanciated.

The above notion is false. But some pro-lifers continue to believe that way because filtering the opposition with emotions, helps them in not seeing where the oposition is coming from and thus not understanding their motives; andlastly all this helps in having supposedly strengthened their argumentation by seeing and projecting pro-choice people as heartless monsters.

1). I never said they promoted it. I said they advocate that women have the option to choose it.

2). I clearly showed my stance on the matter by stating the above.

3). I found it was relevant so I posted it. I still think it is relevant

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I never said men deserve "Reproductive Freedom". They are equally responsible. A Fetus is a Human Being, It Lives and Breathes, it even has a Brain. Women choose to get pregnant by consenting to the act. How is it discriminating against women if I believe they shouldn't commit murder?

Snipes_2

Honestly, They still have a Living and Breathing Human inside of them. It's the same as if they commit abortion when they DO consent. IT's still alive, it's still murder.

So...I'm gathering you're against abortion even in the case of rape and think the woman should suffer carrying a child she never wanted nor consented to having?

Wow.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

"It is a contradiction because right after that you told me that you didnt include abortion due to rape in your statement.

In one post you are talking as if you do include it and then you tell me that you didnt include it. How is that not a contradiction?"

IT's not a contradiction because I was replying to another posters remarks. I stated that Abortion is Abortion, no matter what the premises.

Teenaged

Not my problem, honestly. Your post was quoting me and nothing hinted that you were arguing somebody else.

In fact I dont really believe you that you were responding to someone else, but whatever...

I was in fact Quoting you. I didn't realize it. But, I was still replying to your remark. Which is was "What about Rape". YOu asked me, I answered the question accordingly.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Not in rape.............. -_-

Pixel-Pirate

Honestly, They still have a Living and Breathing Human inside of them. It's the same as if they commit abortion when they DO consent. IT's still alive, it's still murder.

So...I'm gathering you're against abortion even in the case of rape and think the woman should suffer carrying a child she never wanted nor consented to having?

Wow.

You think killing the child is better?

So...I'm gathering you're against abortion even in the case of rape and think the woman should suffer carrying a child she never wanted nor consented to having?

Wow.

Pixel-Pirate

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

1. Actually, I have spoken to "Pro-Choice" people. You all formulate the same argument.

"After you couldnt debate that pro-choice people are pro-abortion you chose to change the debate into whether or not a necessary evil is acceptable. Thats a different issue you started to avoid the previous one."

2. No, You said it was "A Necessary Evil". I posted why it was still wrong.

"Which is not even necessary to be so militant even if you dont agree but I guess its a trend to deny to see where the opposition is coming from. Not my problem though.

I never made an argument as to whether or not the fetus is living/sentient/has rights or any of the sort. You are again changing the argument."

3. No, Again, I posted why abortion was wrong. I posted in response to your "Necessary Evil".

4. How is my stance "Hostile". I'm not the one that started an argument over another opinion.

Plus Hostile means :not friendly, warm, or generous; not hospitable.

I think I replied to every other poster who disagreed with me courteously.

Snipes_2

2. The argument was not whether or not the pro-choice is generally wrong but your claim that people that are pro-choice are pro-abortion. I clearly showed how that is not the case.

3. This has nothing to do with your claim that pro-choice people are pro-abortion. A claim which is false.

4. Thats why I put the word in quotation marks. >______________>

What I meant by the word is that usually pro-lifers view pro-choice people as insensitive (or even cruel) people, that take the matter lightly, or even dont value human life. That by definition is not an approach that can be characterised as honest or substanciated.

The above notion is false. But some pro-lifers continue to believe that way because filtering the opposition with emotions, helps them in not seeing where the oposition is coming from and thus not understanding their motives; andlastly all this helps in having supposedly strengthened their argumentation by seeing and projecting pro-choice people as heartless monsters.

1). I never said they promoted it. I said they advocate that women have the option to choose it.

2). I clearly showed my stance on the matter by stating the above.

3). I found it was relevant so I posted it. I still think it is relevant

""Pro-Choice" is the same as "Pro-Abortion". You encourage women to Choose an abortion, that is, you give them the option."

"Pro-Life means you are against abortion. Pro-Choice means you think abortion is Okay. Is that clear enough?"

These are your quotes. ^^^

2. Like I have by showing the above. ^^^^

3. You posted it while ignoring the rest of the points I made, without once aknowledging that you were in the wrong. Again as I showin in Number 1.

This is essentially what it boils down to. If you are "Pro Choice" you'll NEVER agree with a Pro-Lifers view on Abortion and vice versa. I will never understand how you can consent to the killing of another being, and you will never understand my position.

This is essentially what it boils down to. If you are "Pro Choice" you'll NEVER agree with a Pro-Lifers view on Abortion and vice versa. I will never understand how you can consent to the killing of another being, and you will never understand my position.

Snipes_2

I CAN understand pro-lifers (their stance generally) but in the end I dont agree with it.

You have demonstrated that not only do you not agree with the stance of the people who are pro-choice but that you also dont understand where they are coming from. Thus in the process making absurd claims.

Theres a huge difference.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]1. So tell me if you have spoken to pro-choice people how come you think, pro-choice people like abortion or promote it?

2. The argument was not whether or not the pro-choice is generally wrong but your claim that people that are pro-choice are pro-abortion. I clearly showed how that is not the case.

3. This has nothing to do with your claim that pro-choice people are pro-abortion. A claim which is false.

4. Thats why I put the word in quotation marks. >______________>

What I meant by the word is that usually pro-lifers view pro-choice people as insensitive (or even cruel) people, that take the matter lightly, or even dont value human life. That by definition is not an approach that can be characterised as honest or substanciated.

The above notion is false. But some pro-lifers continue to believe that way because filtering the opposition with emotions, helps them in not seeing where the oposition is coming from and thus not understanding their motives; andlastly all this helps in having supposedly strengthened their argumentation by seeing and projecting pro-choice people as heartless monsters.

Teenaged

1). I never said they promoted it. I said they advocate that women have the option to choose it.

2). I clearly showed my stance on the matter by stating the above.

3). I found it was relevant so I posted it. I still think it is relevant

""Pro-Choice" is the same as "Pro-Abortion". You encourage women to Choose an abortion, that is, you give them the option."

"Pro-Life means you are against abortion. Pro-Choice means you think abortion is Okay. Is that clear enough?"

These are your quotes. ^^^

2. Like I have by showing the above. ^^^^

3. You posted it while ignoring the rest of the points I made, without once aknowledging that you were in the wrong. Again as I showin in Number 1.

I fail to see how you think you are "One-Up" on me. Advocate and Encourage are essentially the same thing. Pro-CHoice does mean you think Abortion is Okay, as you stated it is a "Necessary Evil".

This thread again? Please, give me a break. :roll:

Because, women should have the option to have it. :|

We need (yes, need) abortion for a number of resons:

-One, if a woman has no egg, sperm cannot fertilize one, so the sperm travels into the fallopian tube. This can be deadly, only because sometimes the body cannot control it. The baby won't survive anyway, and if her body can't make it leave the tube, she can, and probably will die.

-Two, some women are so weak, they can't give birth, and so they can, once again, live, they need an abortion if they choose not to have a c-section

-Three, if she was raped, I would totally understand if she doesn't want a baby if she didn't choose to have it. :?

A question, why do you care? It's none of anyone's business if they choose to or not. Let her make her own choices.

Lilyanne46

Besides, if removing a non sentient embryo is murder, then having sex to the point where the semen comes out should be murder considering millions of sperms are trying to reach the egg but only one (Rarely more) will ever be able to fit inside it while rest of the million dies.....

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

1). I never said they promoted it. I said they advocate that women have the option to choose it.

2). I clearly showed my stance on the matter by stating the above.

3). I found it was relevant so I posted it. I still think it is relevant

Snipes_2

""Pro-Choice" is the same as "Pro-Abortion". You encourage women to Choose an abortion, that is, you give them the option."

"Pro-Life means you are against abortion. Pro-Choice means you think abortion is Okay. Is that clear enough?"

These are your quotes. ^^^

2. Like I have by showing the above. ^^^^

3. You posted it while ignoring the rest of the points I made, without once aknowledging that you were in the wrong. Again as I showin in Number 1.

I fail to see how you think you are "One-Up" on me. Advocate and Encourage are essentially the same thing. Pro-CHoice does mean you think Abortion is Okay, as you stated it is a "Necessary Evil".

Like I explained pages ago, necessary evil =/= okay. Is that so hard to understand? Just because I accept the inevitability of that "evil", doesnt mean I think abortions are good.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

This is essentially what it boils down to. If you are "Pro Choice" you'll NEVER agree with a Pro-Lifers view on Abortion and vice versa. I will never understand how you can consent to the killing of another being, and you will never understand my position.

Teenaged

I CAN understand pro-lifers (their stance generally) but in the end I dont agree with it.

You have demonstrated that not only do you not agree with the stance with people who are pro-choice but that you also dont understand where they are coming from. Thus in the process making absurd claims.

Theres a huge difference.

No, I see your stance. I stated above "I will never understand how you can consent to the killing of another being". I have demonstrated that I can "BAck-Up" my argument with facts and quotes from websites. I have not made any "Absurd" claims. By posting this you just proved you CANNOT understand where a "Pro-Lifer" comes from, because you still think my claims are absurd.