If murder is illegal, why isn't abortion?

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]1. Are you sure?

""Pro-Choice" is the same as "Pro-Abortion". You encourage women to Choose an abortion, that is, you give them the option."

"Pro-Life means you are against abortion. Pro-Choice means you think abortion is Okay. Is that clear enough?"

These are your quotes. ^^^

2. Like I have by showing the above. ^^^^

3. You posted it while ignoring the rest of the points I made, without once aknowledging that you were in the wrong. Again as I showin in Number 1.

Teenaged

I fail to see how you think you are "One-Up" on me. Advocate and Encourage are essentially the same thing. Pro-CHoice does mean you think Abortion is Okay, as you stated it is a "Necessary Evil".

Like I explained pages ago, necessary evil =/= okay. Is that so hard to understand. Just because I accept the inevitability of that "evil", doesnt mean I think abortions are good.

I never said you thought they were "Good". I said you think they are a "Necessary Evil". Which means you think it's Okay to have an Abortion.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

This is essentially what it boils down to. If you are "Pro Choice" you'll NEVER agree with a Pro-Lifers view on Abortion and vice versa. I will never understand how you can consent to the killing of another being, and you will never understand my position.

Lilyanne46

So, if the woman knows she is going to have a still birth, should she not get an abortion? She can get very sick and even die because dead cells are infecting her body. :|

If she's going to have a Still-Birth the child is already dead.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

This is essentially what it boils down to. If you are "Pro Choice" you'll NEVER agree with a Pro-Lifers view on Abortion and vice versa. I will never understand how you can consent to the killing of another being, and you will never understand my position.

Snipes_2

I CAN understand pro-lifers (their stance generally) but in the end I dont agree with it.

You have demonstrated that not only do you not agree with the stance with people who are pro-choice but that you also dont understand where they are coming from. Thus in the process making absurd claims.

Theres a huge difference.

No, I see your stance. I stated above "I will never understand how you can consent to the killing of another being". I have demonstrated that I can "BAck-Up" my argument with facts and quotes from websites. I have not made any "Absurd" claims. By posting this you just proved you CANNOT understand where a "Pro-Lifer" comes from, because you still think my claims are absurd.

Your facts and quotes from websites answer to the arguments made on whether or not a fetus is living/sentient/has right etc; an argument that I never made.

:|

Your absurd claims are those pertaining to how you view the stance of pro-choice, as is demonstrated in your quotes above. I wasnt talking about you refuting the argument of a fetus being alive/sentient etc.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I fail to see how you think you are "One-Up" on me. Advocate and Encourage are essentially the same thing. Pro-CHoice does mean you think Abortion is Okay, as you stated it is a "Necessary Evil".

Snipes_2

Like I explained pages ago, necessary evil =/= okay. Is that so hard to understand. Just because I accept the inevitability of that "evil", doesnt mean I think abortions are good.

I never said you thought they were "Good". I said you think they are a "Necessary Evil". Which means you think it's Okay to have an Abortion.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I fail to see how you think you are "One-Up" on me. Advocate and Encourage are essentially the same thing. Pro-CHoice does mean you think Abortion is Okay, as you stated it is a "Necessary Evil".

Snipes_2

Like I explained pages ago, necessary evil =/= okay. Is that so hard to understand. Just because I accept the inevitability of that "evil", doesnt mean I think abortions are good.

I never said you thought they were "Good". I said you think they are a "Necessary Evil". Which means you think it's Okay to have an Abortion.

What you say makes no sense.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Lilyanne46"]

No, he never did. You're just trying to change the subject slyly, so you can get people to agree with you. To be honest that didn't touch me one bit.

The woman has the choice of abortion because she needs it. Without abortion, there could be many deaths associated with birth, because bodies are sometimes too weak to handle it.

Lilyanne46

Ugh, Another person to argue with. I said it was Living, breathing, etc.. In response to Abortion being a NECESSARY evil. It is not necessary. And Most women do not die from childbirth.

"Though the risk of death is very small, experts believe increasing maternal obesity and a jump in Caesarean sections are partly to blame."

" Death from childbirth remains fairly rare in the United States. The death ofinfantsis much more common — the nation's infant mortality rate was 679 per 100,000 live births in 2004."

Source:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20427256/

You don't have to argue with me, I'm just saying don't put words in other people's mouth.

I set up my argument pages ago, if you'd like to see it.

I'm Pro-Choice, not pro abortion. Pro Choice only because who gives a care what a woman does to her body? I'm tired of women not being able to make their own choices. If abortion is illegal, life would be a total hell for women who need one. People who are pro-life need to worry about the upbringing of a child, not as it's being born. That's a big mistake. Not thinking about developement but instead whether some babies are born or not. This is all I have to say.

I didn't "Put words" in his/her mouth. I responded to his post. As I'm responding to yours with the postings below.

"Abortion is not just a simple medical procedure. For many women, it is a life changing event with significant physical, emotional, and spiritual consequences"

Consider the Risks of Abortion

Side effects may occur with induced abortion, whether surgical or by pill. These include abdominal pain and cramping, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Abortion also carries the risk of significant complications such as bleeding, infection, and damage to organs. Serious complications occur in less than 1 out of 100 early abortions and in about 1 out of every 50 later abortions. Complications may include:

• Heavy Bleeding- Some bleeding after abortion is normal. However, if the cervix is torn or the uterus is punctured, there is a risk of severe bleeding known as hemorrhaging. When this happens, a blood transfusion may be required. Severe bleeding is also a risk with the use of RU486. One in 100 women who use RU486 require surgery to stop the bleeding.
  
• Infection– Infection can develop from the insertion of medical instruments into the uterus, or from fetal parts that are mistakenly left inside (known as an incomplete abortion). A pelvic infection may lead to persistent fever over several days and extended hospitalization. It can also cause scarring of the pelvic organs.
  
• Incomplete Abortion- Some fetal parts may be mistakenly left inside after the abortion. Bleeding and infection may result.
  
  
• Sepsis– A number of RU486 or mifepristone users have died as a result of sepsis (total body infection).
  
  
• Anesthesia– Complications from general anesthesia used during abortion surgery may result in convulsions, heart attack, and in extreme cases, death. It also increases the risk of other serious complications by two and a half times.
  
  
• Damage to the Cervix- The cervix may be cut, torn, or damaged by abortion instruments. This can cause excessive bleeding that requires surgical repair.
  
  
• Scarring of the Uterine Lining– Suction tubing, curettes, and other abortion instruments may cause permanent scarring of the uterine lining.
  
  
• Perforation of the Uterus- The uterus may be punctured or torn by abortion instruments. The risk of this complication increases with the length of the pregnancy. If this occurs, major surgery may be required, including removal of the uterus (known as a hysterectomy).
  
  
• Damage to Internal Organs- When the uterus is punctured or torn, there is also a risk that damage will occur to nearby organs such as the bowel and bladder.
  
  
• Death- In extreme cases, other physical complications from abortion including excessive bleeding, infection, organ damage from a perforated uterus, and adverse reactions to anesthesia may lead to death. This complication is rare, but is real.

Consider Other Risks of AbortionAbortion and Preterm Birth:

Women who undergo one or more induced abortions carry a significantly increased risk of delivering prematurely in the future. Premature delivery is associated with higher rates of cerebral palsy, as well as other complications of prematurity (brain, respiratory, bowel, and eye problems).

Abortion and Breast Cancer:

Medical experts are still researching and debating the linkage between abortion and breast cancer. Here are some important facts:

• Carrying your first pregnancy to full term gives protection against breast cancer. Choosing abortion causes loss of that protection.
  
  
• A number of reliable studies have concluded that there may be a link between abortion and the later development of breast cancer.

A 1994 study in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute found: "Among women who had been pregnant at least once, the risk of breast cancer in those who had experienced an induced abortion was 50% higher than among other women."

Emotional and Psychological Impact:

There is evidence that abortion is associated with a decrease in both emotional and physical health. For some women these negative emotions may be very strong, and can appear within days or after many years. This psychological response is a form of post-traumatic stress disorder. Some of the symptoms are:

• Eating disorders
• Relationship problems
• Guilt
• Depression
• Flashbacks of abortion
• Suicidal thoughts
• Sexual dysfunction
• Alcohol and drug abuse

Spiritual Consequences

People have different understandings of God. Whatever your present beliefs may be, there is a spiritual side to abortion that deserves to be considered. Having an abortion may affect more than just your body and your mind -- it may have an impact on your relationship with God. What is God's desire for you in this situation? How does God see your unborn child? These are important questions to consider.

Source:http://www.pregnancycenters.org/abortion.html

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]No. Encouraging women to have an abortion is entirely different than advocating they have the choice. Again this is not my problem if you dont see the difference.

Like I explained pages ago, necessary evil =/= okay. Is that so hard to understand. Just because I accept the inevitability of that "evil", doesnt mean I think abortions are good.

Teenaged

I never said you thought they were "Good". I said you think they are a "Necessary Evil". Which means you think it's Okay to have an Abortion.

What you say makes no sense.

No, What you're saying makes no sense. You say women have the right to have an Abortion. Agreeing that abortion is Okay. Then you say you hope women never reach that point.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

This is essentially what it boils down to. If you are "Pro Choice" you'll NEVER agree with a Pro-Lifers view on Abortion and vice versa. I will never understand how you can consent to the killing of another being, and you will never understand my position.

Snipes_2

I CAN understand pro-lifers (their stance generally) but in the end I dont agree with it.

You have demonstrated that not only do you not agree with the stance with people who are pro-choice but that you also dont understand where they are coming from. Thus in the process making absurd claims.

Theres a huge difference.

No, I see your stance. I stated above "I will never understand how you can consent to the killing of another being". I have demonstrated that I can "BAck-Up" my argument with facts and quotes from websites. I have not made any "Absurd" claims. By posting this you just proved you CANNOT understand where a "Pro-Lifer" comes from, because you still think my claims are absurd.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I never said you thought they were "Good". I said you think they are a "Necessary Evil". Which means you think it's Okay to have an Abortion.

Snipes_2

What you say makes no sense.

No, What you're saying makes no sense. You say women have the right to have an Abortion. Agreeing that abortion is Okay. Then you say you hope women never reach that point.

Take the example of a war. In general nobody wishes for his/her country to be in a war due to many negative effects like deaths, depletion of resources, possible bankcruptcy etc but they do realise the inevitability of it in some cases. Does that mean they think war is ok? No they dont. They wish their country never reached this point.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I never said you thought they were "Good". I said you think they are a "Necessary Evil". Which means you think it's Okay to have an Abortion.

Snipes_2

What you say makes no sense.

No, What you're saying makes no sense. You say women have the right to have an Abortion. Agreeing that abortion is Okay. Then you say you hope women never reach that point.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]You see here's your mistake.

I CAN understand pro-lifers (their stance generally) but in the end I dont agree with it.

You have demonstrated that not only do you not agree with the stance with people who are pro-choice but that you also dont understand where they are coming from. Thus in the process making absurd claims.

Theres a huge difference.

BumFluff122

No, I see your stance. I stated above "I will never understand how you can consent to the killing of another being". I have demonstrated that I can "BAck-Up" my argument with facts and quotes from websites. I have not made any "Absurd" claims. By posting this you just proved you CANNOT understand where a "Pro-Lifer" comes from, because you still think my claims are absurd.

I just posted a Two websites that said the exact opposite. My Argument started at Week 5, when a Baby forms Pain Receptors. Most Women have an Abortion at Week 8.

The second part of your sentence is completely irrelevant. I have yet to post anything like that.

Oh, so now you begin to care about the woman? :roll:

First you give a (in my honest opinion) pointless lecture about why it's wrong to get an abortion.

Again, some women don't want to get pregnant for different reasons. Something unexpected and they have to live with the guilt and shame of an unintentional birth. It's utterly ridiculous to me.

Lilyanne46

It can in this case as well result in psychological problems.

The government apparently feels that you aren't a human until you are born.blackngold29

I'd rather have that then the government telling every woman in the country that she isn't to be trusted with her own body.

Oh, so now you begin to care about the woman? :roll:

First you give a (in my honest opinion) pointless lecture about why it's wrong to get an abortion.

Again, some women don't want to get pregnant for different reasons. Something unexpected and they have to live with the guilt and shame of an unintentional birth. It's utterly ridiculous to me.

Lilyanne46

I just posted information on abortion. You said women die of ChildBirth. Women also die from Abortions. Why can't anyone seem to get my posts straight?

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]No. Necessary evil doesnt mean I think its okay. If I wish a woman never reaches the point to have an abortion then how do I think abortions are ok? :?

What you say makes no sense.

Teenaged

No, What you're saying makes no sense. You say women have the right to have an Abortion. Agreeing that abortion is Okay. Then you say you hope women never reach that point.

Take the example of a war. In general nobody wishes for his/her country to be in a war due to many negative effects like deaths, depletion of resources, possible bankcruptcy etc but they do realise the inevitability of it in some cases. Does that mean they think war is ok? No they dont. They wish their country never reached this point.

War is not like Abortion. And by saying it's a Necessary Evil you agree that it is Okay. How can you not? IF you thought abortion wasn't right you'd be Pro-Life.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

No, What you're saying makes no sense. You say women have the right to have an Abortion. Agreeing that abortion is Okay. Then you say you hope women never reach that point.

Snipes_2

Take the example of a war. In general nobody wishes for his/her country to be in a war due to many negative effects like deaths, depletion of resources, possible bankcruptcy etc but they do realise the inevitability of it in some cases. Does that mean they think war is ok? No they dont. They wish their country never reached this point.

War is not like Abortion. And by saying it's a Necessary Evil you agree that it is Okay. How can you not? IF you thought abortion wasn't right you'd be Pro-Life.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

No, What you're saying makes no sense. You say women have the right to have an Abortion. Agreeing that abortion is Okay. Then you say you hope women never reach that point.

Snipes_2

Take the example of a war. In general nobody wishes for his/her country to be in a war due to many negative effects like deaths, depletion of resources, possible bankcruptcy etc but they do realise the inevitability of it in some cases. Does that mean they think war is ok? No they dont. They wish their country never reached this point.

1. War is not like Abortion.

2. And by saying it's a Necessary Evil you agree that it is Okay. How can you not?3.

3. IF you thought abortion wasn't right you'd be Pro-Life.

2. Your opinion and your take on the matter which is not true.

3. Again another simplistic equation. You can go ahead and ignore important factors at play in most cases that result in abortion but like I have said before that doesnt make your simplistic equations any less false.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]And here is where you make the wrong equation. Just because I think they should have the option to have an abortion as a necessary evil doesnt mean I am ok with abortion. I just see the inevitability of it in some cases. And that I repeat doesnt mean I feel ok with the thought of an abortion.

Take the example of a war. In general nobody wishes for his/her country to be in a war due to many negative effects like deaths, depletion of resources, possible bankcruptcy etc but they do realise the inevitability of it in some cases. Does that mean they think war is ok? No they dont. They wish their country never reached this point.

T_P_O

War is not like Abortion. And by saying it's a Necessary Evil you agree that it is Okay. How can you not? IF you thought abortion wasn't right you'd be Pro-Life.

It doesnt suit him.

The debate itself, pretty much nail down to the simple question "Is the fetus alive or dead?". I think the solution we should take is to reduce unwanted pregnancy's as much as possible.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

No, What you're saying makes no sense. You say women have the right to have an Abortion. Agreeing that abortion is Okay. Then you say you hope women never reach that point.

Snipes_2

Take the example of a war. In general nobody wishes for his/her country to be in a war due to many negative effects like deaths, depletion of resources, possible bankcruptcy etc but they do realise the inevitability of it in some cases. Does that mean they think war is ok? No they dont. They wish their country never reached this point.

War is not like Abortion. And by saying it's a Necessary Evil you agree that it is Okay. How can you not? IF you thought abortion wasn't right you'd be Pro-Life.

[QUOTE="T_P_O"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

War is not like Abortion. And by saying it's a Necessary Evil you agree that it is Okay. How can you not? IF you thought abortion wasn't right you'd be Pro-Life.

Teenaged

It doesnt suit him.

I actually did read it. IT appears as if I'm getting under your skin, for your posts are getting increasingly more hostile towards my remarks. :D

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="T_P_O"] Did you even read my post in the last page explaining this?Snipes_2

It doesnt suit him.

I actually did read it. IT appears as if I'm getting under your skin, for your posts are getting increasingly more hostile towards my remarks. :D

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Lilyanne46"]

Oh, so now you begin to care about the woman? :roll:

First you give a (in my honest opinion) pointless lecture about why it's wrong to get an abortion.

Again, some women don't want to get pregnant for different reasons. Something unexpected and they have to live with the guilt and shame of an unintentional birth. It's utterly ridiculous to me.

Lilyanne46

I just posted information on abortion. You said women die of ChildBirth. Women also die from Abortions. Why can't anyone seem to get my posts straight?

Again, a misconception. I said some women, not all die of childbirth, simply because they are too weak to handle such. Yes, abortion has it's risks, and so does childbirth. So, I'm saying that a choice is needed.

Pick your poison. You can die on both roads.

How was my post a Misconception? You said women die of ChildBirth, I said they die of Abortion too.

The debate itself, pretty much nail down to the simple question "Is the fetus alive or dead?". I think the solution we should take is to reduce unwanted pregnancy's as much as possible.

alexside1

I for one never based my opinion on whether or not I believe the fetus is alive/sentient/has rights etc.

And yes my general stance is that first governments should try to prevent unwanted pregnancies to happen by any means it has available.

Not just make abortion illegal and then call it a day asif the problem is solved. Denying women the choice solves no problem at all.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="T_P_O"] Did you even read my post in the last page explaining this?Snipes_2

It doesnt suit him.

I actually did read it. IT appears as if I'm getting under your skin, for your posts are getting increasingly more hostile towards my remarks. :D

The fact remains that even if you did read it, you still didnt respond. I am wandering... could it be that T_P_O's post got under your skin by making apparent to you something you do not wish to aknowledge?

Just saying...

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]Source:http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/Fetal_Pain/FetalPain091604.pdf>T_P_O

This is the last post of yours I saw.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Why would he?

It doesnt suit him.

Teenaged

I actually did read it. IT appears as if I'm getting under your skin, for your posts are getting increasingly more hostile towards my remarks. :D

There was no way to reply to the post I read from him. It was asking for another source which I gave. Anything else?

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Lilyanne46"]

Again, a misconception. I said some women, not all die of childbirth, simply because they are too weak to handle such. Yes, abortion has it's risks, and so does childbirth. So, I'm saying that a choice is needed.

Pick your poison. You can die on both roads.

Lilyanne46

How was my post a Misconception? You said women die of ChildBirth, I said they die of Abortion too.

No, I mean you don't get my point. You think you do but you don't. :|

What is your point? I thought it was that women die of childbirth and so on.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I actually did read it. IT appears as if I'm getting under your skin, for your posts are getting increasingly more hostile towards my remarks. :D

Snipes_2

There was no way to reply to the post I read from him. It was asking for another source which I gave. Anything else?

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

The debate itself, pretty much nail down to the simple question "Is the fetus alive or dead?". I think the solution we should take is to reduce unwanted pregnancy's as much as possible.

Teenaged

I for one never based my opinion on whether or not I believe the fetus is alive/sentient/has rights etc.

What do you based your opinion on then? What are the other facts of the disagreement? Elaborate for me.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]"Under my skin"? Oh no, I am just call them as I see them. Dont you appreciate honesty?

Teenaged

There was no way to reply to the post I read from him. It was asking for another source which I gave. Anything else?

As I stated in Reply to him. That was the last one I saw.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

So...I'm gathering you're against abortion even in the case of rape and think the woman should suffer carrying a child she never wanted nor consented to having?

Wow.

ghoklebutter

Because it cannot exist outside of the womans womb and the woman should in no case what so ever be forced to suffer mental torture, physical pain, and 9 months of carrying a child she did not want and was essentially forced into. It is unfortunate that an abortion happens in this case but can you honest to God tell me it is wrong for the mother to not want to go through with the child of a man who took her against her will? Would you want to?

This is the last post of yours I saw.Snipes_2

"A necessary evil is anything which, despite being considered to have undesirable qualities, is preferable to its absence." - Wikipedia. It doesn't mean that Teenaged finds it "okay", he just sees what the consquences might be without a legal and professionally handled abortion procedure, compared to the alternative, which could be far worse.T_P_O

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

So...I'm gathering you're against abortion even in the case of rape and think the woman should suffer carrying a child she never wanted nor consented to having?

Wow.

Pixel-Pirate

Because it cannot exist outside of the womans womb and the woman should in no case what so ever be forced to suffer mental torture, physical pain, and 9 months of carrying a child she did not want and was essentially forced into. It is unfortunate that an abortion happens in this case but can you honest to God tell me it is wrong for the mother to not want to go through with the child of a man who took her against her will? Would you want to?

Why can't it exist outside the Mothers WOmb if it's a perfectly healthy child? It is wrong to have an Abortion, you are KILLING another human being. I would not want to have a Child under those Circumstances but I would. I can Honestly say I would have trouble with it, but I would not Abort the Child.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

The debate itself, pretty much nail down to the simple question "Is the fetus alive or dead?". I think the solution we should take is to reduce unwanted pregnancy's as much as possible.

alexside1

I for one never based my opinion on whether or not I believe the fetus is alive/sentient/has rights etc.

What do you based your opinion on then? What are the other facts of the disagreement? Elaborate for me.

Also the argument of whether or not the fetus is alive or not to me seems very arguable and no deffinite answer would come of it.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]This is the last post of yours I saw.T_P_O

"A necessary evil is anything which, despite being considered to have undesirable qualities, is preferable to its absence." - Wikipedia. It doesn't mean that Teenage finds it "okay", he just sees what the consquences might be without a legal and professionally handled abortion procedure, compared to the alternative, which could be far worse.T_P_O

Where was this posted? Page? I'm still going to say he thinks abortion is Okay. "A necessary evil is anything which, despite being considered to have undesirable qualities, is preferable to its absence." The consequences won't be the same, a child dies in one process and lives in another.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

So...I'm gathering you're against abortion even in the case of rape and think the woman should suffer carrying a child she never wanted nor consented to having?

Wow.

Pixel-Pirate

Because it cannot exist outside of the womans womb and the woman should in no case what so ever be forced to suffer mental torture, physical pain, and 9 months of carrying a child she did not want and was essentially forced into. It is unfortunate that an abortion happens in this case but can you honest to God tell me it is wrong for the mother to not want to go through with the child of a man who took her against her will? Would you want to?

"It cannot exist outside of the womans womb"

What's the difference between ending a life in the womb and ending a life outside a womb?

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]No thats not the only fact of the disagreement.

I for one never based my opinion on whether or not I believe the fetus is alive/sentient/has rights etc.

Teenaged

What do you based your opinion on then? What are the other facts of the disagreement? Elaborate for me.

Also the argument of whether or not the fetus is alive or not to me seems very arguable and no deffinite answer would come of it.

So Killing someone is better than giving them a slight chance to live? An Unwanted pregnancy has the same physical effects as a "Wanted" pregnancy. The Adoption centers are pretty Accessible to anyone.

[QUOTE="T_P_O"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] No worries, I can easily repost it: [QUOTE="T_P_O"]"A necessary evil is anything which, despite being considered to have undesirable qualities, is preferable to its absence." - Wikipedia. It doesn't mean that Teenage finds it "okay", he just sees what the consquences might be without a legal and professionally handled abortion procedure, compared to the alternative, which could be far worse.Snipes_2

Where was this posted? Page? I'm still going to say he thinks abortion is Okay. "A necessary evil is anything which, despite being considered to have undesirable qualities, is preferable to its absence." The consequences won't be the same, a child dies in one process and lives in another.

I already demostrated with examples and whatnot.

Just because its easier for you to make that equation in your head to justify your stance towards abortion by projecting any stance but yours as cruel or illogical, doesnt make the equation right.

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]No thats not the only fact of the disagreement.

I for one never based my opinion on whether or not I believe the fetus is alive/sentient/has rights etc.

Teenaged

What do you based your opinion on then? What are the other facts of the disagreement? Elaborate for me.

Also the argument of whether or not the fetus is alive or not to me seems very arguable and no deffinite answer would come of it.

Where was this posted? Page? I'm still going to say he thinks abortion is Okay. "A necessary evil is anything which, despite being considered to have undesirable qualities, is preferable to its absence." The consequences won't be the same, a child dies in one process and lives in another.Snipes_2

It was on page 23, but don't worry about it, sometimes the actual forum can behave in odd ways (like not registering the quote and forcing me to edit this).

Well, you have to look at what happens when abortion is illegal. It will still happen, as it has for centuries, determined women will just seek out backstreet abortionists, and the procedure is highly risky. Higher chance of death, infection and serious injury. Just because you make abortion illegal, doesn't mean it would cease to exist, it would just happen illegal, and that means no qualified doctor would carry out the procedure.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="T_P_O"]Teenaged

Where was this posted? Page? I'm still going to say he thinks abortion is Okay. "A necessary evil is anything which, despite being considered to have undesirable qualities, is preferable to its absence." The consequences won't be the same, a child dies in one process and lives in another.

I already demostrated with examples and whatnot.

Just because its easier for you to make that equation in your head to justify your stance towards abortion by projecting any stance but yours as cruel or illogical, doesnt make the equation right.

I can say the same for your argument. I did not project the other stances as cruel and illogical. I projected them as they are.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

What do you based your opinion on then? What are the other facts of the disagreement? Elaborate for me.

Snipes_2

Also the argument of whether or not the fetus is alive or not to me seems very arguable and no deffinite answer would come of it.

So Killing someone is better than giving them a slight chance to live? An Unwanted pregnancy has the same physical effects as a "Wanted" pregnancy. The Adoption centers are pretty Accessible to anyone.

(RED) I have every reason to doubt that.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

What do you based your opinion on then? What are the other facts of the disagreement? Elaborate for me.

alexside1

Also the argument of whether or not the fetus is alive or not to me seems very arguable and no deffinite answer would come of it.

Of course not. In my opinion at least.

And thats why one may for instance establish in medical terms exactly when the fetus is alive or sentient, but another person may not accept the medical terms.

And that person is not obligated to, imo. Notions like alive/sentient are not only defined in medical terms.