If Obma gets elected and turns america into a socialist wasteland...

]Ah yes...I do realize that...and it's because of the problems inherent in the system. To get better...and timely care private insurance is paid by the wealthy. However, not everyone currently covered is wealthy so they will lose the benefit of good care and be stuck with waiting lines as is Canada and the UK. with a universal system. And again...with our population it will be much worse than in either of those countries.

LJS9502_basic

both have higher life expectancy than the US. we're like #30-something. :P still going to say they have worse healthcare?

what metrics are you using? only lines? the ones in the US aren't any better. (unless you want to pay for your own that is but of course they can do that too if they wanted)

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] Crystal ball much?jointed

I read something similar that happened in Hawaii. They put a free healthcare system for kids or something...soon kids that already had private healthcare, moved onto the new 'free' healthcare program. It collapsed soon after.

FragStains

Exactly.

If Hawaii can't do it, no one can :cry:

The Scandnavian countries have managed to pull it off perfectly well.

[QUOTE="Ontain"]

everyone. that's just how insurance works too. I can't afford my cancer care? those other ppl are paying for it (well at least till the insurance co. finds a way to stop funding my care)

LJS9502_basic

and like i said. they have that with universal in some of the Nordic countries. private insurance based on income. companies of a certain size must pay for employee and other regulations like that. the negotiation of price and still exist between insurance and hospitals but no one gets denied.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] Crystal ball much?FragStains

I read something similar that happened in Hawaii. They put a free healthcare system for kids or something...soon kids that already had private healthcare, moved onto the new 'free' healthcare program. It collapsed soon after.

FragStains

Exactly.

If Hawaii can't do it, no one can :cry:

The Scandnavian countries have managed to pull it off perfectly well.

There's no need to use such formal language in this thread, American user. Here, we're all friends.

and like i said. they have that with universal in some of the Nordic countries. private insurance based on income. companies of a certain size must pay for employee and other regulations like that. the negotiation of price and still exist between insurance and hospitals but no one gets denied.

Ontain

You do know those countries are ahead of us in multiple areas including over all heatlhcare, education and other such things?sSubZerOo

Uh, no they aren't, at least when it comes to socialist heathcare. If you study what the huge downfalls are to that kind of society with heathcare you will realize why you would never want a system like that. One example is, someone who has never payed a single dollar into that system while others have their whole life can be enitiled to heathcare, while you are the one the one paying for it (depending on what it is, it could be thousands). The list goes on and on. I am not saying the United States system isn't flawed but it is at least better than socialist healthcare.

[QUOTE="Ontain"]

and like i said. they have that with universal in some of the Nordic countries. private insurance based on income. companies of a certain size must pay for employee and other regulations like that. the negotiation of price and still exist between insurance and hospitals but no one gets denied.

LJS9502_basic

yes...but our gdp is also many times higher.

BTW, my opinion is going off of what my friend from the UK has told me. kingyotoX

Huzzah for socialism! free hospitals and free education, nay PAYED education in Denmark... HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE="kingyotoX"]BTW, my opinion is going off of what my friend from the UK has told me. Deihjan

Huzzah for socialism! free hospitals and free education, nay PAYED education in Denmark... HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah and now the government wants to introduce a "database" which will hold the communication information of all British citizens. To fight Child Abuse and Terrorism.

[QUOTE="Deihjan"]

[QUOTE="kingyotoX"]BTW, my opinion is going off of what my friend from the UK has told me. bradleybhoy

Huzzah for socialism! free hospitals and free education, nay PAYED education in Denmark... HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah and now the government wants to introduce a "database" which will hold the communication information of all British citizens. To fight Child Abuse and Terrorism.

at least they didn't do it in secret like the US government did and breaking their own laws.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] You do know those countries are ahead of us in multiple areas including over all heatlhcare, education and other such things?psychicsniper

Uh, no they aren't, at least when it comes to socialist heathcare. If you study what the huge downfalls are to that kind of society with heathcare you will realize why you would never want a system like that. One example is, someone who has never payed a single dollar into that system while others have their whole life can be enitiled to heathcare, while you are the one the one paying for it (depending on what it is, it could be thousands). The list goes on and on. I am not saying the United States system isn't flawed but it is at least better than socialist healthcare.

Hmm, greed is the explanation of such thoughts. Denmark has one of most nationalized health care systems in Europe and they just happen to be ranked the most "happy" country in the world.

Seriously, such thinking belongs to the 50s together with McCarthy.

If Obama gets elected and turns america into a socialist wasteland like that of canada and many of the european countries where can I move?kingyotoX

this is what will happen if socalism hits the US :o

this is what will happen if socalism hits the US :o

markop2003

No wai, that's a government building...socialists love the government remember?

If Obama gets elected and turns america into a socialist wasteland like that of canada and many of the european countries where can I move?kingyotoX

Oh, those poor wastelands with a higher quality of life....poor them.

If Obama gets elected and turns america into a socialist wasteland like that of canada and many of the european countries where can I move?kingyotoX

Antarctica. simple as that.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]

There can be both systems. I do not advocate removing private care, although I do wish for a universal system in the US. That's what Obama is proposing.

LJS9502_basic

You just don't listen to anything that contradicts your view, do you? Let me explain something to you. Australia has a universal healthcare system that is completely subsidised by the government, but also a profitable and growing private health system. With Medicare (free), you only get the most basic level of care. This is why a large number of employed people choose to take out private health insurance. It ensures quicker, more personalised service and generally higher quality of care than is the case with the free system.

One does not exclude the other, like you seem to be saying. Many people "volunteer" to pay. And the cost is not prohibitive. But you'll probably ignore this, because it doesn't fit with your views of how things should be. Whatever, ignore or not, my country (along with many others) is a living proof that you're wrong. I'm not saying you should import the Aussie system into America, simply that you shouldn't write it off as unworkable like you have been doing all night (day?).

[QUOTE="markop2003"]

this is what will happen if socalism hits the US :o

jointed

No wai, that's a government building...socialists love the government remember?

No-one and nothing is safe from the dread socialism :o

You just don't listen to anything that contradicts your view, do you? Let me explain something to you. Australia has a universal healthcare system that is completely subsidised by the government, but also a profitable and growing private health system. With Medicare (free), you only get the most basic level of care. This is why a large number of employed people choose to take out private health insurance. It ensures quicker, more personalised service and generally higher quality of care than is the case with the free system.

One does not exclude the other, like you seem to be saying. Many people "volunteer" to pay. And the cost is not prohibitive. But you'll probably ignore this, because it doesn't fit with your views of how things should be. Whatever, ignore or not, my country (along with many others) is a living proof that you're wrong. I'm not saying you should import the Aussie system into America, simply that you shouldn't write it off as unworkable like you have been doing all night (day?).

streak000

Second...you can't compare Australia to the US which has a much more extensive population. There are many factors that have to be considered...and you are ONLY focusing on one.

And no..I didn't ignore your post.;)

Ya, it's pretty hard living up here in Canada. I have to cut down 10 more trees before I can have a plate of pancakes and watch hockey...metallica_fan42

Ya, it's pretty hard living up here in Canada. I have to cut down 10 more trees before I can have a plate of pancakes and watch hockey...metallica_fan42

I hear the price of flannel shirts and suspenders have risen...how on earth do you make ends meet?

[QUOTE="metallica_fan42"]Ya, it's pretty hard living up here in Canada. I have to cut down 10 more trees before I can have a plate of pancakes and watch hockey...Sajo7

I hear the price of flannel shirts and suspenders have risen...how on earth do you make ends meet?

America will be like Europe when Obama gets in. Rich, cultured and no boundries.... but very moody because there isn't an art gallery every 2 sq. miles.clembo1990

That would be better than having a McDonald's every 2 square miles.

[QUOTE="streak000"]

You just don't listen to anything that contradicts your view, do you? Let me explain something to you. Australia has a universal healthcare system that is completely subsidised by the government, but also a profitable and growing private health system. With Medicare (free), you only get the most basic level of care. This is why a large number of employed people choose to take out private health insurance. It ensures quicker, more personalised service and generally higher quality of care than is the case with the free system.

One does not exclude the other, like you seem to be saying. Many people "volunteer" to pay. And the cost is not prohibitive. But you'll probably ignore this, because it doesn't fit with your views of how things should be. Whatever, ignore or not, my country (along with many others) is a living proof that you're wrong. I'm not saying you should import the Aussie system into America, simply that you shouldn't write it off as unworkable like you have been doing all night (day?).

LJS9502_basic

Second...you can't compare Australia to the US which has a much more extensive population. There are many factors that have to be considered...and you are ONLY focusing on one.

And no..I didn't ignore your post.;)

US has a much higher population, but also a much higher GDP, which evens things out somewhat.

Medicare is there for the poor. Nearly everyone I know has private cover. I use medicare when I need a doctor's certificate to chuck a sickie at work, and it's useful for minor infections and such. But if I get really sick, there's no way in hell I'm gonna rely on the Government to take care of me. Nevertheless, I like the fact that Medicare exists, because you never know, I could go bankrupt tomorrow. It's a nice thing to fall back on.

The fact that there is virtually no opposition to Medicare within Australia speaks volumes about its success. We like our system down here, higher taxes or not. Oh, and by the way, our taxes are comparatively low in relation to just about any European country. We have a huge budget surplus. So what's the problem? We just exercise a certain measure of Social responsibility towards the less fortunate, while retaining a firmly capitalist, free market system. It's the best of both worlds, I tells ya.

Thank you for not ignoring. It's 5am, and I can't sleep. I needed to take my mind off the insomnia for a short while. These posts certainly helped. Goodnight (errr, morning).

US has a much higher population, but also a much higher GDP, which evens things out somewhat.

Medicare is there for the poor. Nearly everyone I know has private cover. I use medicare when I need a doctor's certificate to chuck a sickie at work, and it's useful for minor infections and such. But if I get really sick, there's no way in hell I'm gonna rely on the Government to take care of me. Nevertheless, I like the fact that Medicare exists, because you never know, I could go bankrupt tomorrow. It's a nice thing to fall back on.

The fact that there is virtually no opposition to Medicare within Australia speaks volumes about its success. We like our system down here, higher taxes or not. Oh, and by the way, our taxes are comparatively low in relation to just about any European country. We have a huge budget surplus. So what's the problem? We just exercise a certain measure of Social responsibility towards the less fortunate, while retaining a firmly capitalist, free market system. It's the best of both worlds, I tells ya.

Thank you for not ignoring. It's 5am, and I can't sleep. I needed to take my mind off the insomnia for a short while. These posts certainly helped. Goodnight (errr, morning).

streak000

And I have not studied Australia system...but I do know there is waiting lists in the UK and in Canada. We do get Canadians down here and they don't seem so happy about their system. I imagine if you are young and not needing much beyond a few doctor visits now and then it would seem perfect. But the older Canadians that need operations do complain.

Anyway...good night...morning. Enjoy the surfing...

US has a much higher population, but also a much higher GDP, which evens things out somewhat.

Medicare is there for the poor. Nearly everyone I know has private cover. I use medicare when I need a doctor's certificate to chuck a sickie at work, and it's useful for minor infections and such. But if I get really sick, there's no way in hell I'm gonna rely on the Government to take care of me. Nevertheless, I like the fact that Medicare exists, because you never know, I could go bankrupt tomorrow. It's a nice thing to fall back on.

The fact that there is virtually no opposition to Medicare within Australia speaks volumes about its success. We like our system down here, higher taxes or not. Oh, and by the way, our taxes are comparatively low in relation to just about any European country. We have a huge budget surplus. So what's the problem? We just exercise a certain measure of Social responsibility towards the less fortunate, while retaining a firmly capitalist, free market system. It's the best of both worlds, I tells ya.

Thank you for not ignoring. It's 5am, and I can't sleep. I needed to take my mind off the insomnia for a short while. These posts certainly helped. Goodnight (errr, morning).

streak000

We have Medicare in the US that is for poor people. It's not universial but if you are poor and you need it, you can easily get Medicare. I agree it's a good thing and we do it differently, but your post above you are making it seem like we don't have Medicare at all, and we definitely do.

We have Medicare in the US that is for poor people. It's not universial but if you are poor and you need it, you can easily get Medicare. I agree it's a good thing and we do it differently, but your post above you are making it seem like we don't have Medicare at all, and we definitely do.

Cereo1

I'm just going to stay in the greatest country in the world in my opinion, even though our economy will be ****** up because of the inexpireneced **** Barack Hussein Obama Junior.

[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"][QUOTE="johnnyv2003"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="metaldude05"]im not a fan of obama but that won't happen. I dont think he is that extreme and plus everyone forgets congress has to approve every law made. chances of too many of his more socialist policies getting approved in my opinion is slim to none johnnyv2003

i thought that the senate was controlled by dems..but the House has republican majority?

hmm, well I guess all we can hope for is some kind of shake up with the house and senate. But like you said, might not happen and if it doesn't I truly fear for this country.

Don't count on that soon. Bush and others have tainted the Republican name. This is what scares me; the average American is biased and can't view the situation with open eyes. Everything Republican is automatically bad, which isn't true. Just like I don't view all Dems as liberal monsters socializing our country. So yea, many people who know nothing of candidates, issues, and politics are going to be voting for people with "D" behind their name. That outta make everyone feel good.

blah blah blah, keep repeating the lies, like fox tells u to.

Admit it, you hate him, cuz hes intelligent, not a warmonger, and BLACK.

Bazfrag

**** like this gives Democrats a bad name. What better are you assuming we all watch Fox news, and he's black, blah blah? He's also half white dumbass. Stop parroting sensationalist lines you read from your stupid little liberal blogs. No one here has expressed anything utterly outrageous, if you took the time to actually read the posts, there's respectful debate. Haul ass.

I think you're all overreacting. It's like I'm on Fox News forums (you know, the LIBERALS are coming to burn down your house and eat your children). I can't help but think that you're all under the influence of some sort of Conservative propaganda.

Obama is a moderate. And lemme tell you, you desperately need a moderate, intelligent president right now (after 8 years of Bush and the evangelists). Just my view, and that of billions of other people around the world.

streak000

You're mistaken. Obama is NOT a moderate. If you're going to make fun of Fox news and the right wing and accuse us of being under propoganda, at least get your facts straight. Obama is defintely a liberal as per his issues.

What's with you always insulting the right wing? No one really is disrespectful to you, yet you always throw in jabs at other people.

Nope, nothing doing. Good thing I don't have to go to work or uni today...

Anyway:

DISCLAIMER: If I was to point out out all the good things about the Australian Medicare system without mentioning the flaws, I could be accused of embellishing the truth a little. There are long waiting lists for elective surgery. In Sydney, there is a shortage of public hospital beds. And if you need to see a public dentist, good luck. They might call you back in 3 years if you're lucky. Which is why Private Health Insurance is absolutely essential, despite the universal healthcare. And yet, for all the failings of the system, it's very useful, and something I can't imagine Australia without.

EARNEST QUESTION: So is Obama going to bring in universal healthcare if he gets in? Is that why we're talking about this? And if he does, what kind of system is he envisaging? As much as I can't imagine Australia without universal medicare, I can't really imagine such a system in America. America seems much too individualistic for such a huge social welfare program. You take Capitalism to its absolute limit (ie. take care of the no. 1), so I really don't believe it would work as well as it does in some other countries. There would be too much opposition and bitterness.

A FURTHER QUERY: So what politician would you say is "moderate"? I don't know as much about this as you, so what makes Obama so left wing? He seems like an Australian Labor party politician (a centrist party currently in government, with very slight leftward leanings). To me, he seems pretty damn moderate, especially when you compare him to the Bush administration.

USELESS FACT: The largest Conservative party in Australia is called The Liberal Party. Here, conservatives are "liberals". Told you it was useless.

FINAL LINE: It's much too cold to enjoy surfing today. I'm freezing. People don't realise just how cold it gets here sometimes.

[QUOTE="Deihjan"]

[QUOTE="kingyotoX"]BTW, my opinion is going off of what my friend from the UK has told me. bradleybhoy

Huzzah for socialism! free hospitals and free education, nay PAYED education in Denmark... HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah and now the government wants to introduce a "database" which will hold the communication information of all British citizens. To fight Child Abuse and Terrorism.

i thought it had already been started...

me and my friend have been trying to set it off for weeks by sending plans to bobm various places to each other, no luck so far

[QUOTE="septemberluc"][QUOTE="TSCombo"]Calm down man. Bill O is another commentator. Apparently if you repeatedly have guest that differ with your POV on your show then you are "evil".Everyone has baises the only thing you can hope for is that they let you know that its their opinion and not the end all Truth. The other news organizations msut be so far on the other end of the spectrum that FOX News looks like its "evil and bigotted". LOL Your definition of Evil is very lax and subjective. TSCombo

In your opinion, how many times does that happen per show? It may be troubling to watch two people with opinions talk and one of them be different from your own but you will be very misinformed if you don't consider the other side. Bill has gotten heated b4 (Barney Frank) but he is very direct in his interviews for the most part. Peope who don't even watch the show characterize him as "evil" and mean. LOL

Well put. If people hate him, why go on his show?! I don't get it. Besides, people have held their own on his show. Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert (he ragged on him about his "french" name), Michael Moore, etc. O'Reilly can be a jerk sometimes and can be out there, but is he not entitled to his views? To say "Fox is evil!" is just as retarded. I'm not trying to put him on a platter, but people just parrot what liberal media wants them too. Liberal networks have some crap on their TV too, but they're too perfect to even scrutinize. Jon Stewart (who is a joke when it comes to politics) looked like he was actually having fun on the show, and Michael Moore further proved why I don't like sensationalist liberals. I try and be objective, and I do, as far as issues are concerned consider myself a REAL moderate (not an Australian moderate) as far as issues are concerned. However, when I hear crap like this and hear other really left wing people talk, it disgusts me and pushes me more right. Then I hear stuff about God and the Bible then I got back left haha!

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] Crystal ball much?FragStains

I read something similar that happened in Hawaii. They put a free healthcare system for kids or something...soon kids that already had private healthcare, moved onto the new 'free' healthcare program. It collapsed soon after.

FragStains

Exactly.

If Hawaii can't do it, no one can :cry:

The Scandnavian countries have managed to pull it off perfectly well.

You's from da Souf too, huh? Git 'r dun. Whatz all this here talk about fancy schmancy helth enshurince?

[QUOTE="streak000"]

I think you're all overreacting. It's like I'm on Fox News forums (you know, the LIBERALS are coming to burn down your house and eat your children). I can't help but think that you're all under the influence of some sort of Conservative propaganda.

Obama is a moderate. And lemme tell you, you desperately need a moderate, intelligent president right now (after 8 years of Bush and the evangelists). Just my view, and that of billions of other people around the world.

xDeadP00lx

You're mistaken. Obama is NOT a moderate. If you're going to make fun of Fox news and the right wing and accuse us of being under propoganda, at least get your facts straight. Obama is defintely a liberal as per his issues.

What's with you always insulting the right wing? No one really is disrespectful to you, yet you always throw in jabs at other people.

I really don't like the Bush administration or Fox News. It's nothing personal. I'm just sharing my views with y'all. I honestly didn't mean to throw any jabs, except those that were required to illustrate my extreme dislike of your present administration's methods. If I offended you in any way, I apologise.

[QUOTE="clembo1990"]America will be like Europe when Obama gets in. Rich, cultured and no boundries.... but very moody because there isn't an art gallery every 2 sq. miles.Bentham

That would be better than having a McDonald's every 2 square miles.

Don't be jealous of our fat, jiggly population. I can sense your envy.

[QUOTE="xDeadP00lx"][QUOTE="streak000"]

I think you're all overreacting. It's like I'm on Fox News forums (you know, the LIBERALS are coming to burn down your house and eat your children). I can't help but think that you're all under the influence of some sort of Conservative propaganda.

Obama is a moderate. And lemme tell you, you desperately need a moderate, intelligent president right now (after 8 years of Bush and the evangelists). Just my view, and that of billions of other people around the world.

streak000

You're mistaken. Obama is NOT a moderate. If you're going to make fun of Fox news and the right wing and accuse us of being under propoganda, at least get your facts straight. Obama is defintely a liberal as per his issues.

What's with you always insulting the right wing? No one really is disrespectful to you, yet you always throw in jabs at other people.

I really don't like the Bush administration or Fox News. It's nothing personal. I'm just sharing my views with y'all. I honestly didn't mean to throw any jabs, except those that were required to illustrate my extreme dislike of your present administration's methods. If I offended you in any way, I apologise.

Not at all man. Perhaps I sounded a little too harsh, sorry. I just hate that when someone is right leaning, or even a true moderate in sense of issues, people automatically assume you buy into Fox news, you're stupid, and you eat up propoganda, etc, etc. God forbid you have a difference in view of Obama and the Democrats this day and age. Some people actually do their homework. You're not alone in hating the Bush administration; most of the world does. I guess I just get sick of people demonizing Republicans as much as Liberals. The bipartisan system is broken and just makes people argue on forums all day :P

[QUOTE="Bentham"]

[QUOTE="clembo1990"]America will be like Europe when Obama gets in. Rich, cultured and no boundries.... but very moody because there isn't an art gallery every 2 sq. miles.xDeadP00lx

That would be better than having a McDonald's every 2 square miles.

Don't be jealous of our fat, jiggly population. I can sense your envy.

I had no idea green trees, healthy people and overall good life condidtions were considered a wasteland.

Seriously? England a socialist wasteland? WASTELAND?

1. Land that is desolate, barren, or ravaged.
2. A place, era, or aspect of life considered as lacking in spiritual, aesthetic, or other humanizing qualities; a vacuum

Seriously? England a socialist wasteland? WASTELAND?

1. Land that is desolate, barren, or ravaged.
2. A place, era, or aspect of life considered as lacking in spiritual, aesthetic, or other humanizing qualities; a vacuum

swizz-the-gamer

I know. It's hard to believe what people think of sometimes.

I think you're all overreacting. It's like I'm on Fox News forum

streak000

fox got a forum?

please let them have a politics sub section

*starts google*

Try a little despotism, move to Iran.KG86

ok let me remember your username so i know who to NOT take advice from :P

kingyotoX, your ignorance appauls me. Canada and Western Europe have a higher standard of living than the U.S.

You probably haven't been outside the country, buddy.