If you support the death penalty, tell me why now please!!!!

[QUOTE="romocop33"] so we should probably kill all the invalids too then? people in a vegetative state that cannot move or talk or do anything don't really have a value to society. dhyce

....

If there's a prospect for recovery then of course they should be kept alive. If there's no hope then it's a healthy move for the family to just let go. Comatose patients who can potentially recover and live a happy life =/= crazed maniac who slaughters and rapes people.

[QUOTE="dhyce"]I don't see the point in keeping people alive that are of no value to society or mankind in general. Taking up space in jail where they can do more harm to those that actually can better themselves seems pointless. The death penalty makes perfect sense in my eyes.romocop33

Not kill them, but also not provide excessive means in keeping them alive.  That may be worse than death.  Rather then let someone die, modern medicine demands that we shove a tube in every single orifice and keep these poor people alive on a ventilator despite them being brain dead.  WE can consider that a success by saying that they lived an extra 5 weeks.  I think that is inhumane torture.  They would naturally be dead had medicine not intervened with excessive care.

[QUOTE="atrain4"]I believe it's the crimnals choice...Taxpaying_Acorn

We kill the criminals to show criminals not to kill people, apparently. :?BranKetra

everyone who is convicted of murder =/= crazed maniac who slaughters and rapes peopleromocop33

True, and not every murderer gets the death penalty. I was only using an example that would *wait for it* warrent the death penalty. You made the comparison of a comatose person based on an incorrect assumption when I said "people of no value to society." Is this discussion going anywhere?

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]We kill the criminals to show criminals not to kill people, apparently. :?dhyce

Some people are monsters and don't deserve to live and have food and shelter on our money.  The death penalty should be called for the most horrible crimes only, but they should speed up the process,  because we waste so much of our tax money to keep these fiends alive.  Some people will call me barbaric, but it would cost less than $30 to put a bullet in their head and incinerate the body.  A lot better than wasting thousands on lethal injection if you ask me.

BadAndy642

You've never shot a man in cold blood, have you (have you? :|)? It's a thing that people call...what's it....ah, their humanity. I almost forgot. 

On another note, apparently....you've been looking the other way when it comes to the actual trial. People are incarcerated for years at a time because they get lost in the system. I know a girl whose mother was locked in jail for 2 years for being a witness of a crime. 2 years. Imagine how long suspects of murders are if they get lost in the system.

Then realize what kinda government we'd be living with if we chose to kill the suspects on the spot for murder cases the moment they are convicted for the first time..

the fact that the criminal justice system is racist and the death penalty is applied unequally should be enough to convince you that it should be abolished.romocop33

Whoa there.

Cite me examples. I'm sure it might happen somewhere, how about connecticut? :P

Still, the death penalty makes sense, why keep serial killers alive? Examples plz kthx

Because I think as a society we're above government endorsed murder.Mr_sprinkles

But what makes it such a bad thing to kill horrible people? Would you rather they stew in prison until their natural death?

[QUOTE="daniel52587"]It is an efficient way of getting rid of the scum that live on this earth. And it saves us money if we kill a criminal, rather than keep him alive and pay for his food and what not. Taxpaying_Acorn

I do wonder if this just shows the general public that killing and a lack of mercy are acceptable things.yoshi-lnex

Worked for Stalin.

Their should be no death penalty. Their should be instead something else.

You get put in a huge cage with Triple H and Shawn Micheals, in which they have all their weapons. That is the most harsh way to die....

[QUOTE="romocop33"]the fact that the criminal justice system is racist and the death penalty is applied unequally should be enough to convince you that it should be abolished.dhyce

Whoa there.

Cite me examples. I'm sure it might happen somewhere, how about connecticut? :P

Still, the death penalty makes sense, why keep serial killers alive? Examples plz kthx

[QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]No, it's wrong for anybody to take the life of another.ROLFCHANK

The killing would still be a wrong.

[QUOTE="dhyce"]

[QUOTE="romocop33"]the fact that the criminal justice system is racist and the death penalty is applied unequally should be enough to convince you that it should be abolished.romocop33

Whoa there.

Cite me examples. I'm sure it might happen somewhere, how about connecticut? :P

Still, the death penalty makes sense, why keep serial killers alive? Examples plz kthx

87.2% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

[QUOTE="snrsmith23"]Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people (19 of which were children) in the Oklahoma City bombing and was executed for it on June 11, 2001. I would like to know how anyone doesn't think he deserved to get executed.Marx_Brother

I would rather see killers like that spend their entire life in prison or hard labor because that is a lot worse than getting the death sentence.

... It costs you a lot of money to have them executed as well... either way it costs money. Plus, it's not about the money in your pocket, idiot, it's about the criminal.

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]We kill the criminals to show criminals not to kill people, apparently. :?dhyce

Well...the reason for jail in the first place is to get the inmates to rethink their lives. Killing them kinda....halts those thoughts. That's why American jails and prisons don't torture the inmates...if the death sentence holds validity, so does beating people jailed in our country's prisons.

-In this scenerio, even if someone's jailed for stealing, they should get a beating...jailed=physical or mental chopping blocks of different levels, basically.

[QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]I do wonder if this just shows the general public that killing and a lack of mercy are acceptable things.sonicare

Worked for Stalin.

Today's lesson: Don't kill a white person if you don't want to be executed. In murder cases where the defendant is executed, 80% of the victims have been white, although only about half of all murder victims are white. There have been 221 cases of interracial murder in which the defendant was executed. of those, 209 of the cases involved a black person killing a white person. of course, this might have something so do with the fact that in states where capital punishment is an option, 98% of the chief district attorneys are white.romocop33

Horrible if it truly is racist execution. I can't very well see every case, see prior illegal behavior, weigh the evidence, and talk to the judge.

So I'll leave the validity of your point up in the sky.

You know what they all could of done to not be executed? Not of killed people. *light bulb*

[QUOTE="romocop33"][QUOTE="dhyce"]

[QUOTE="romocop33"]the fact that the criminal justice system is racist and the death penalty is applied unequally should be enough to convince you that it should be abolished.sonicare

Whoa there.

Cite me examples. I'm sure it might happen somewhere, how about connecticut? :P

Still, the death penalty makes sense, why keep serial killers alive? Examples plz kthx

87.2% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

[QUOTE="snrsmith23"]Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people (19 of which were children) in the Oklahoma City bombing and was executed for it on June 11, 2001. I would like to know how anyone doesn't think he deserved to get executed.daniel52587

I would rather see killers like that spend their entire life in prison or hard labor because that is a lot worse than getting the death sentence.

... It costs you a lot of money to have them executed as well... either way it costs money. Plus, it's not about the money in your pocket, idiot, it's about the criminal.

So if you support the death penalty, you're actually supporting higher taxes on your said pay check.

Well...the reason for jail in the first place is to get the inmates to rethink their lives. Killing them kinda....halts those thoughts. That's why American jails and prisons don't torture the inmates...if the death sentence holds validity, so does beating people jailed in our country's prisons. -In this scenerio, even if someone's jailed for stealing, they should get a beating...jailed=physical or mental chopping blocks of different levels, basically. BranKetra

I really think only the most dangerous and unreforming criminals should be executed.  The death penalty is really not something a "advanced" society should have to resort to using.sonicare

Why execute them when you can get more out of it by making murderers do hard labour for the rest of their lives...?Marx_Brother

If they are too dangerous.  That's my only indication for the death penalty.  For instance, that sniper guy in Washington.  if he ever escaped, the results could be disastrous.

Why execute them when you can get more out of it by making murderers do hard labour for the rest of their lives...?Marx_Brother

 Ah ha, I like that.

Finally a good reason to keep them alive, yeah, I actually prefer that to the death penalty.

If they are too dangerous.  That's my only indication for the death penalty.  For instance, that sniper guy in Washington.  if he ever escaped, the results could be disastrous.

sonicare

Very true too, at the end of the day I think I'll always be siding with the death penalty. Any kind of labor would have to be monitered extremely well.

[QUOTE="romocop33"]QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"] Because I think as a society we're above government endorsed murder.dhyce

But what makes it such a bad thing to kill horrible people? Would you rather they stew in prison until their natural death?

[QUOTE="ROLFCHANK"][QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]No, it's wrong for anybody to take the life of another.yoshi-lnex

The killing would still be a wrong.

[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]Why execute them when you can get more out of it by making murderers do hard labour for the rest of their lives...?sonicare

If they are too dangerous.  That's my only indication for the death penalty.  For instance, that sniper guy in Washington.  if he ever escaped, the results could be disastrous.

Prisoners rarely escape, you're watching too much Prison Break.

[QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

[QUOTE="snrsmith23"]Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people (19 of which were children) in the Oklahoma City bombing and was executed for it on June 11, 2001. I would like to know how anyone doesn't think he deserved to get executed.yoshi-lnex

I would rather see killers like that spend their entire life in prison or hard labor because that is a lot worse than getting the death sentence.

... It costs you a lot of money to have them executed as well... either way it costs money. Plus, it's not about the money in your pocket, idiot, it's about the criminal.

So if you support the death penalty, you're actually supporting higher taxes on your said pay check.

[QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]

[QUOTE="ROLFCHANK"][QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]No, it's wrong for anybody to take the life of another.ROLFCHANK

The killing would still be a wrong.

Would you get more satisfaction out of seeing the murderer dead or seeing the murderer busting his back by working for the rest of his life?

Yup. Death penalty is all about revenge. Thats all it really is. Its not a deterrant, its no cheaper than prison, and it doesn't protect the general public any more than a life inprisonment. and with prison, theres always the option of releasing them if it turns out they're innocent. Thats a bit harder to do with the death penalty.Mr_sprinkles

In any situation where it's unsure if the person in question actually commited the murders in the first place then I'd never side with the death penalty. Only for cold hard facts proving something truly vile.

A life sentence is a good sentence, but the inmate still has access to other inmates he can harm, I suppose this wing would have to be life sentence only if it were to work?

Not a bad point of view, I sort of agree with you.

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]Why execute them when you can get more out of it by making murderers do hard labour for the rest of their lives...?Marx_Brother

If they are too dangerous.  That's my only indication for the death penalty.  For instance, that sniper guy in Washington.  if he ever escaped, the results could be disastrous.

Prisoners rarely escape, you're watching too much Prison Break.

Recently, an escaped convict killed a police officer and seriously wounded another in PA before later surrendering.  It's not as uncommon as you would think.

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]Well...the reason for jail in the first place is to get the inmates to rethink their lives. Killing them kinda....halts those thoughts. That's why American jails and prisons don't torture the inmates...if the death sentence holds validity, so does beating people jailed in our country's prisons. -In this scenerio, even if someone's jailed for stealing, they should get a beating...jailed=physical or mental chopping blocks of different levels, basically. dhyce

Of course it serves nothing in the legal sense....unless you think of it as a way to remind them of what'll happen if people's taxes have to go towards keeping these folks incarcerated. a.k.a. mental instilling. Life sentences for all death 'sentencies...Yeah. These guys could work for the government. Whatever the job, something more constructive than the body's decaying process giving nutrients back to the earth. Life sentences are potentially much better than a death sentence. -Okay, a person kills my family. I'd go berserk, find the guy/girl, and probably try to mame the person...until I realize that an eye for an eye doesn't do anything but give me assurance that it won't happen again through this person. People wanting a death wish could use the death penalty as a way out. Ever seen the movie Seven?BranKetra

Se7en is an all time fave of mine, I like turning the 'V' into a 7 when I write it out, it makes me feel all warm and pretentious inside.

 Eh, you guys win on this one, you changed my mind. A life sentence with hard labor serves far more purpose than zapping them straight down cocytus.

Now you can walk around all day proudly saying you've changed a perspective on the internet, heck, make a cape out of some curtains while you're at it, go wild. :P

[QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

[QUOTE="snrsmith23"]Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people (19 of which were children) in the Oklahoma City bombing and was executed for it on June 11, 2001. I would like to know how anyone doesn't think he deserved to get executed.daniel52587

I would rather see killers like that spend their entire life in prison or hard labor because that is a lot worse than getting the death sentence.

... It costs you a lot of money to have them executed as well... either way it costs money. Plus, it's not about the money in your pocket, idiot, it's about the criminal.

So if you support the death penalty, you're actually supporting higher taxes on your said pay check.

The facts tend to disagree

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

http://www.tcadp.org/facts.php#factsh

TRIAL: court personnel $ 74,000
jury panel $ 17,220
2 defense attorneys, expert
  witnesses, investigators $112,400
3 prosecuting attorneys $ 38,052
judge $ 23,968
total $265,640

STATE APPEALS: defense $15,000
prosecution $29,000
reproducing trial records $20,000
court of criminal appeals$30,240
total $94,240

FEDERAL APPEAL: defense counsel $ 92,000
state attorney general's office $ 19,600
appellate court $ 1,708,000
total $ 1,819,600

DEATH ROW INCARCERATION:

inmate $ 136,875

TOTAL COST: $ 2,316,355   vs   Life in Prison: $750,000

(source: Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)

A 2003 study in Kansas determined that capital cases cost the state 70% more per case than comparable non-capital cases, including incarceration.

A 2002 study in Indiana found that it was 38% more expensive for capital cases including incarceration, and 20% of death sentences were later resentenced to life.

A comprehensive 1993 Duke University study found that a typical capital case cost the state $2.13 million dollars more than a typical non-death penalty murder case.

A 2000 report of every execution in Florida after 1976 found that Florida spends $51 million additional dollars per year on death penalty cases compared to first-degree murder cases with life without parole.  The 44 executions have cost Florida approximately $24 million each.

A 1992 Dallas Morning News article found that the average death penalty case costs $2.3 million more than incarceration in maximum for 40 years.  (SunFyre's Two Cents: Coincidentally, Texas executes by far the most people, you'd think they'd get a quantity discount.)

A 1988 study found that California spends $90 million annually on death penalty cases, and $78 million of that is incurred in court costs.

http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

Se7en is an all time fave of mine, I like turning the 'V' into a 7 when I write it out, it makes me feel all warm and pretentious inside.

 Eh, you guys win on this one, you changed my mind. A life sentence with hard labor serves far more purpose than zapping them straight down cocytus.

Now you can walk around all day proudly saying you've changed a perspective on the internet, heck, make a cape out of some curtains while you're at it, go wild. :P

dhyce

the fact that the criminal justice system is racist and the death penalty is applied unequally should be enough to convince you that it should be abolished.romocop33

[QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

[QUOTE="snrsmith23"]Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people (19 of which were children) in the Oklahoma City bombing and was executed for it on June 11, 2001. I would like to know how anyone doesn't think he deserved to get executed.yoshi-lnex

I would rather see killers like that spend their entire life in prison or hard labor because that is a lot worse than getting the death sentence.

... It costs you a lot of money to have them executed as well... either way it costs money. Plus, it's not about the money in your pocket, idiot, it's about the criminal.

So if you support the death penalty, you're actually supporting higher taxes on your said pay check.

The facts tend to disagree

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

http://www.tcadp.org/facts.php#factsh

TRIAL: court personnel $ 74,000
jury panel $ 17,220
2 defense attorneys, expert
witnesses, investigators $112,400
3 prosecuting attorneys $ 38,052
judge $ 23,968
total $265,640

STATE APPEALS: defense $15,000
prosecution $29,000
reproducing trial records $20,000
court of criminal appeals$30,240
total $94,240

FEDERAL APPEAL: defense counsel $ 92,000
state attorney general's office $ 19,600
appellate court $ 1,708,000
total $ 1,819,600

DEATH ROW INCARCERATION:

inmate $ 136,875

TOTAL COST: $ 2,316,355 vs Life in Prison: $750,000

(source: Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)

A 2003 study in Kansas determined that capital cases cost the state 70% more per case than comparable non-capital cases, including incarceration.

A 2002 study in Indiana found that it was 38% more expensive for capital cases including incarceration, and 20% of death sentences were later resentenced to life.

A comprehensive 1993 Duke University study found that a typical capital case cost the state $2.13 million dollars more than a typical non-death penalty murder case.

A 2000 report of every execution in Florida after 1976 found that Florida spends $51 million additional dollars per year on death penalty cases compared to first-degree murder cases with life without parole. The 44 executions have cost Florida approximately $24 million each.

A 1992 Dallas Morning News article found that the average death penalty case costs $2.3 million more than incarceration in maximum for 40 years. (SunFyre's Two Cents: Coincidentally, Texas executes by far the most people, you'd think they'd get a quantity discount.)

A 1988 study found that California spends $90 million annually on death penalty cases, and $78 million of that is incurred in court costs.

http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

[QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

[QUOTE="snrsmith23"]Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people (19 of which were children) in the Oklahoma City bombing and was executed for it on June 11, 2001. I would like to know how anyone doesn't think he deserved to get executed.daniel52587

I would rather see killers like that spend their entire life in prison or hard labor because that is a lot worse than getting the death sentence.

... It costs you a lot of money to have them executed as well... either way it costs money. Plus, it's not about the money in your pocket, idiot, it's about the criminal.

So if you support the death penalty, you're actually supporting higher taxes on your said pay check.

The facts tend to disagree

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

http://www.tcadp.org/facts.php#factsh

TRIAL: court personnel $ 74,000
jury panel $ 17,220
2 defense attorneys, expert
witnesses, investigators $112,400
3 prosecuting attorneys $ 38,052
judge $ 23,968
total $265,640

STATE APPEALS: defense $15,000
prosecution $29,000
reproducing trial records $20,000
court of criminal appeals$30,240
total $94,240

FEDERAL APPEAL: defense counsel $ 92,000
state attorney general's office $ 19,600
appellate court $ 1,708,000
total $ 1,819,600

DEATH ROW INCARCERATION:

inmate $ 136,875

TOTAL COST: $ 2,316,355 vs Life in Prison: $750,000

(source: Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)

A 2003 study in Kansas determined that capital cases cost the state 70% more per case than comparable non-capital cases, including incarceration.

A 2002 study in Indiana found that it was 38% more expensive for capital cases including incarceration, and 20% of death sentences were later resentenced to life.

A comprehensive 1993 Duke University study found that a typical capital case cost the state $2.13 million dollars more than a typical non-death penalty murder case.

A 2000 report of every execution in Florida after 1976 found that Florida spends $51 million additional dollars per year on death penalty cases compared to first-degree murder cases with life without parole. The 44 executions have cost Florida approximately $24 million each.

A 1992 Dallas Morning News article found that the average death penalty case costs $2.3 million more than incarceration in maximum for 40 years. (SunFyre's Two Cents: Coincidentally, Texas executes by far the most people, you'd think they'd get a quantity discount.)

A 1988 study found that California spends $90 million annually on death penalty cases, and $78 million of that is incurred in court costs.

http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

romocop,

I agree with you that drug users shouldn't be incarcerated.  They should be rehabiliated.  They are addicts and victims.

However, drug dealers -> they should be arrested and imprisoned.  They knowlingly sell drugs to people - in many cases - people from their own neighborhoods.

Would you get more satisfaction out of seeing the murderer dead or seeing the murderer busting his back by working for the rest of his life?

Marx_Brother

I would actually shift my support if every murderer was shipped to the coldest or hottest places on the planet and made to do the most tedious, constant, backbreaking work all day long and given the least amount of sleep needed.  And this would last for the rest of their lives. 

romocop,

I agree with you that drug users shouldn't be incarcerated. They should be rehabiliated. They are addicts and victims.

However, drug dealers -> they should be arrested and imprisoned. They knowlingly sell drugs to people - in many cases - people from their own neighborhoods.

sonicare

[QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

[QUOTE="snrsmith23"]Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people (19 of which were children) in the Oklahoma City bombing and was executed for it on June 11, 2001. I would like to know how anyone doesn't think he deserved to get executed.romocop33

I would rather see killers like that spend their entire life in prison or hard labor because that is a lot worse than getting the death sentence.

... It costs you a lot of money to have them executed as well... either way it costs money. Plus, it's not about the money in your pocket, idiot, it's about the criminal.

So if you support the death penalty, you're actually supporting higher taxes on your said pay check.

The facts tend to disagree

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

http://www.tcadp.org/facts.php#factsh

TRIAL: court personnel $ 74,000
jury panel $ 17,220
2 defense attorneys, expert
witnesses, investigators $112,400
3 prosecuting attorneys $ 38,052
judge $ 23,968
total $265,640

STATE APPEALS: defense $15,000
prosecution $29,000
reproducing trial records $20,000
court of criminal appeals$30,240
total $94,240

FEDERAL APPEAL: defense counsel $ 92,000
state attorney general's office $ 19,600
appellate court $ 1,708,000
total $ 1,819,600

DEATH ROW INCARCERATION:

inmate $ 136,875

TOTAL COST: $ 2,316,355 vs Life in Prison: $750,000

(source: Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)

A 2003 study in Kansas determined that capital cases cost the state 70% more per case than comparable non-capital cases, including incarceration.

A 2002 study in Indiana found that it was 38% more expensive for capital cases including incarceration, and 20% of death sentences were later resentenced to life.

A comprehensive 1993 Duke University study found that a typical capital case cost the state $2.13 million dollars more than a typical non-death penalty murder case.

A 2000 report of every execution in Florida after 1976 found that Florida spends $51 million additional dollars per year on death penalty cases compared to first-degree murder cases with life without parole. The 44 executions have cost Florida approximately $24 million each.

A 1992 Dallas Morning News article found that the average death penalty case costs $2.3 million more than incarceration in maximum for 40 years. (SunFyre's Two Cents: Coincidentally, Texas executes by far the most people, you'd think they'd get a quantity discount.)

A 1988 study found that California spends $90 million annually on death penalty cases, and $78 million of that is incurred in court costs.

http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

[QUOTE="ROLFCHANK"][QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]

[QUOTE="ROLFCHANK"][QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]No, it's wrong for anybody to take the life of another.yoshi-lnex

The killing would still be a wrong.