If you support the death penalty, tell me why now please!!!!

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ROLFCHANK

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#151 ROLFCHANK
Member since 2006 • 1085 Posts
[QUOTE="sonicare"]

romocop,

I agree with you that drug users shouldn't be incarcerated. They should be rehabiliated. They are addicts and victims.

However, drug dealers -> they should be arrested and imprisoned. They knowlingly sell drugs to people - in many cases - people from their own neighborhoods.

romocop33
sure, when a guy sells crack to a 14 year old kid, he should be locked up. but many people in prison on drug charges are just users. like the guy in texas who was locked up for life because he smoked a joint while on parole. luckily he got pardoned a couple weeks ago after like 17 years in prison. but 17 years is a long damn time for smoking pot.

not only that, but an argument could be made that legalization would do away with black market dealers. i mean, how many gangsters were still selling moonshine after prohibition ended? then again, this would probably depend on whether the government diluted the potency of certain drugs so much that they werent the same, in which event there would likely still be a black market.
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caseypayne69

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#152 caseypayne69
Member since 2002 • 5396 Posts
A wrong doesn't cure another wrong. Just because one person killed doesn't mean killing them makes things right. To kill a killer is an emotional want. For me its: God > Bible (word of God) > emotions So killing a killer is overriding Gods law on not to kill and puttting emotion ahead of God or Gods word. Last time I checked the cabuse doesn't run the train.
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#153 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts
[QUOTE="sonicare"]

romocop,

I agree with you that drug users shouldn't be incarcerated. They should be rehabiliated. They are addicts and victims.

However, drug dealers -> they should be arrested and imprisoned. They knowlingly sell drugs to people - in many cases - people from their own neighborhoods.

romocop33

sure, when a guy sells crack to a 14 year old kid, he should be locked up. but many people in prison on drug charges are just users. like the guy in texas who was locked up for life because he smoked a joint while on parole. luckily he got pardoned a couple weeks ago after like 17 years in prison. but 17 years is a long damn time for smoking pot.

Yes, i think users should be sent to rehab not prison.

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ROLFCHANK

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#154 ROLFCHANK
Member since 2006 • 1085 Posts
[QUOTE="romocop33"][QUOTE="sonicare"]

romocop,

I agree with you that drug users shouldn't be incarcerated. They should be rehabiliated. They are addicts and victims.

However, drug dealers -> they should be arrested and imprisoned. They knowlingly sell drugs to people - in many cases - people from their own neighborhoods.

sonicare

sure, when a guy sells crack to a 14 year old kid, he should be locked up. but many people in prison on drug charges are just users. like the guy in texas who was locked up for life because he smoked a joint while on parole. luckily he got pardoned a couple weeks ago after like 17 years in prison. but 17 years is a long damn time for smoking pot.

Yes, i think users should be sent to rehab not prison.

i think they should send themselves to rehab if they choose to do so and the government should butt out as long as they dont pose a danger to anyone else.
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OODALOOP

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#155 OODALOOP
Member since 2004 • 36350 Posts
[QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="daniel52587"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

[QUOTE="snrsmith23"]Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people (19 of which were children) in the Oklahoma City bombing and was executed for it on June 11, 2001. I would like to know how anyone doesn't think he deserved to get executed.yoshi-lnex

I would rather see killers like that spend their entire life in prison or hard labor because that is a lot worse than getting the death sentence.

But that costs us money. It wastes our tax money we give up to the government. They waste it as it is on foreign crap, the last thing we need is for it to be wasted on a bunch of low life criminals.

... It costs you a lot of money to have them executed as well... either way it costs money. Plus, it's not about the money in your pocket, idiot, it's about the criminal.

It is about the money that comes out of my pay check to pay for their prison time. Paying for their life in prison, 20, 40, 80 years is way more than having them killed. Do you know anything? How old are you, like 14. Shut up, you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

You relize that executions costs anywhere from 2 to 10 times the money it would to keep them in jail.

So if you support the death penalty, you're actually supporting higher taxes on your said pay check.

No it doesnt. Show me proof and I will believe you. Our tax money goes to their food, clothing, soap, seating, cell room, lunch room, the prison itself, more guards, more steel to make the keys, etc. You dont realize how much it takes to run a prison. The more people we throw in their, the more we have to cough up. It is cheaper to just kill them.

The facts tend to disagree

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

http://www.tcadp.org/facts.php#factsh

TRIAL: court personnel $ 74,000
jury panel $ 17,220
2 defense attorneys, expert
witnesses, investigators $112,400
3 prosecuting attorneys $ 38,052
judge $ 23,968
total $265,640

STATE APPEALS: defense $15,000
prosecution $29,000
reproducing trial records $20,000
court of criminal appeals$30,240
total $94,240

FEDERAL APPEAL: defense counsel $ 92,000
state attorney general's office $ 19,600
appellate court $ 1,708,000
total $ 1,819,600

DEATH ROW INCARCERATION:

inmate $ 136,875

TOTAL COST: $ 2,316,355 vs Life in Prison: $750,000

(source: Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)

A 2003 study in Kansas determined that capital cases cost the state 70% more per case than comparable non-capital cases, including incarceration.

A 2002 study in Indiana found that it was 38% more expensive for capital cases including incarceration, and 20% of death sentences were later resentenced to life.

A comprehensive 1993 Duke University study found that a typical capital case cost the state $2.13 million dollars more than a typical non-death penalty murder case.

A 2000 report of every execution in Florida after 1976 found that Florida spends $51 million additional dollars per year on death penalty cases compared to first-degree murder cases with life without parole. The 44 executions have cost Florida approximately $24 million each.

A 1992 Dallas Morning News article found that the average death penalty case costs $2.3 million more than incarceration in maximum for 40 years. (SunFyre's Two Cents: Coincidentally, Texas executes by far the most people, you'd think they'd get a quantity discount.)

A 1988 study found that California spends $90 million annually on death penalty cases, and $78 million of that is incurred in court costs.

http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

The only thing this demonstrates is that the death penalty process should be made more efficient, not that it should be done away with.
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cory4513

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#156 cory4513
Member since 2006 • 1318 Posts
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" Ghandi
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#157 OODALOOP
Member since 2004 • 36350 Posts
We kill the criminals to show criminals not to kill people, apparently. :?BranKetra
That would be relevant, if someone was making the point that the death penalty is an effective deterrent. I know I for one never made that case, nor do I care. I know people will commit crimes whether they're facing jail time, the electric chair, isolation in Siberia, or boiling oil poured on them. It doesn't matter. We kill criminals to prevent them from killing again, not for retribution, not for punishment, not to deter other criminals, but to completely eradicate the possibility of a second crime. Any other sentence allows for the possibility, no matter how rare, that the criminal has the chance to commit further wrongs against other human beings. When a man has committed a truly violent and horrible crime, he has forfeited the right to live amongst other human beings. He broke our trust and deserves nothing from us. He took something he can't give back, and there is no reason to allow the possibility for a repeat performance.
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#158 cory4513
Member since 2006 • 1318 Posts
[QUOTE="BranKetra"]We kill the criminals to show criminals not to kill people, apparently. :?bt_the_great_78
That would be relevant, if someone was making the point that the death penalty is an effective deterrent. I know I for one never made that case, nor do I care. I know people will commit crimes whether they're facing jail time, the electric chair, isolation in Siberia, or boiling oil poured on them. It doesn't matter. We kill criminals to prevent them from killing again, not for retribution, not for punishment, not to deter other criminals, but to completely eradicate the possibility of a second crime. Any other sentence allows for the possibility, no matter how rare, that the criminal has the chance to commit further wrongs against other human beings. When a man has committed a truly violent and horrible crime, he has forfeited the right to live amongst other human beings. He broke our trust and deserves nothing from us. He took something he can't give back, and there is no reason to allow the possibility for a repeat performance.

keeping criminals in high security jails for life would serve the same purpose
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LJS9502_basic

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#159 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180106 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]]

Whatever, I'm just saying the death penalty isn't a fantastic deterrent. The state shouldn't fund or endorse crap like that. Period.

-Karayan-
You can have whatever opinion on the death penalty you want.....your logic, however, for your reasoning is flawed. The fact that there isn't a lot of death penalty cases belies your basis.

His point is that it doesn't stop anyone from doing anything any more than a life sentence would do.

His point is incorrect then...
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#160 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180106 Posts
[QUOTE="romocop33"][QUOTE="sonicare"]

romocop,

I agree with you that drug users shouldn't be incarcerated. They should be rehabiliated. They are addicts and victims.

However, drug dealers -> they should be arrested and imprisoned. They knowlingly sell drugs to people - in many cases - people from their own neighborhoods.

sonicare

sure, when a guy sells crack to a 14 year old kid, he should be locked up. but many people in prison on drug charges are just users. like the guy in texas who was locked up for life because he smoked a joint while on parole. luckily he got pardoned a couple weeks ago after like 17 years in prison. but 17 years is a long damn time for smoking pot.

Yes, i think users should be sent to rehab not prison.

Why should my taxes be increased because someone is irresponsible enough to get a drug problem by taking illegal drugs...
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#161 OODALOOP
Member since 2004 • 36350 Posts
[QUOTE="cory4513"] keeping criminals in high security jails for life would serve the same purpose

What purpose would it serve to keep someone around when there is the possibility they can be released or escape and kill again?
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quiglythegreat

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#162 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
[QUOTE="bt_the_great_78"][QUOTE="cory4513"] keeping criminals in high security jails for life would serve the same purpose

What purpose would it serve to keep someone around when there is the possibility they can be released or escape and kill again?

Well, if you want to play the probability game in that case, I'm sure you could look up a few statistics for murderers and have a pretty damn good idea who else to execute as a preemptive measure. The death penalty is not instituted to stop the killer from killing again.
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#163 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Why should my taxes be increased because someone is irresponsible enough to get a drug problem by taking illegal drugs...

Well, why should they be increased so that some nerds get to play with some nice toys? The issue is that it helps other people. The government is for the greater good, not necessarily the good of the individual. Ideally, of course, however it kind of seems like it's a lot of nothing. Not that I have a clue.
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#164 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] His point is incorrect then...

I've heard quite a few times that the death penalty deters absolutely no more than a life sentence does.
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OODALOOP

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#165 OODALOOP
Member since 2004 • 36350 Posts
[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="bt_the_great_78"][QUOTE="cory4513"] keeping criminals in high security jails for life would serve the same purpose

What purpose would it serve to keep someone around when there is the possibility they can be released or escape and kill again?

Well, if you want to play the probability game in that case, I'm sure you could look up a few statistics for murderers and have a pretty damn good idea who else to execute as a preemptive measure. The death penalty is not instituted to stop the killer from killing again.

It's not pre-emptive, it's reactive. No one is executing people based upon crimes they might commit, but sentencing people for the crime they did commit. If a crime is of a certain nature and a history is shown, the punishment is logically more severe.
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quiglythegreat

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#166 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
[QUOTE="bt_the_great_78"] It's not pre-emptive, it's reactive. No one is executing people based upon crimes they might commit, but sentencing people for the crime they did commit. If a crime is of a certain nature and a history is shown, the punishment is logically more severe.

Well now you're totally contradicting yourself. You just said that the death penalty is to ensure that that particular non-person will never take another life again, however you now describe the measure as punishment. If it is punishment, then according to only this post, it accomplishes nothing BUT retribution.
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raiden509

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#167 raiden509
Member since 2006 • 3181 Posts
I dont belive in it i say let them rot in prison
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Guitarking411

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#168 Guitarking411
Member since 2007 • 425 Posts
I support it for the reason that people who don't respect life don't deserve it, if someone goes out and kills another person for no reason( if they had a good reason then whatever not my problem) then they should die.
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#169 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180106 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] His point is incorrect then...quiglythegreat
I've heard quite a few times that the death penalty deters absolutely no more than a life sentence does.

Really? There are a lot of criminals that don't care if they are behind bars for life....and prison and death penalty is for punishment.
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#170 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
I support it for the reason that people who don't respect life don't deserve it, if someone goes out and kills another person for no reason( if they had a good reason then whatever not my problem) then they should die.Guitarking411
Well, my objection to the punishment is...well, respect for human life. I know I wouldn't want someone to kill the person who killed me if that ever happened, just because I'd still be dead and so would they, so that's just another corpse in the ground.
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#171 OODALOOP
Member since 2004 • 36350 Posts
[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="bt_the_great_78"] It's not pre-emptive, it's reactive. No one is executing people based upon crimes they might commit, but sentencing people for the crime they did commit. If a crime is of a certain nature and a history is shown, the punishment is logically more severe.

Well now you're totally contradicting yourself. You just said that the death penalty is to ensure that that particular non-person will never take another life again, however you now describe the measure as punishment. If it is punishment, then according to only this post, it accomplishes nothing BUT retribution.

It's not a contradiction at all. A person committed a crime and lost the right to live. They broke a trust, and no longer deserve the right to live amongst a population. They have demonstrated a propensity to murder other human beings (or something equally as atrocious), and can no longer be trusted in society.
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#172 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] His point is incorrect then...

I've heard quite a few times that the death penalty deters absolutely no more than a life sentence does.

Really? There are a lot of criminals that don't care if they are behind bars for life.....but not many that want to be executed. Death penalty cases are a very small percentage of total sentencing.

I suppose I have only heard this from kind of one sided things, but it supposedly does nothing in terms of deterrence. This is a shot in the dark, but I imagine if you're committing a crime horrible enough to warrant the death penalty, then you probably don't reckon you're getting caught at all.
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#173 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
[QUOTE="bt_the_great_78"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="bt_the_great_78"] It's not pre-emptive, it's reactive. No one is executing people based upon crimes they might commit, but sentencing people for the crime they did commit. If a crime is of a certain nature and a history is shown, the punishment is logically more severe.

Well now you're totally contradicting yourself. You just said that the death penalty is to ensure that that particular non-person will never take another life again, however you now describe the measure as punishment. If it is punishment, then according to only this post, it accomplishes nothing BUT retribution.

It's not a contradiction at all. A person committed a crime and lost the right to live. They broke a trust, and no longer deserve the right to live amongst a population. They have demonstrated a propensity to murder other human beings (or something equally as atrocious), and can no longer be trusted in society.

I am not arguing that they be trusted by society, merely that we do not destroy them. The language you're using is definitely giving me the impression that you feel retribution is a stronger point in supporting the death penalty.
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#174 Marx_Brother
Member since 2007 • 726 Posts

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] His point is incorrect then...LJS9502_basic
I've heard quite a few times that the death penalty deters absolutely no more than a life sentence does.

Really? There are a lot of criminals that don't care if they are behind bars for life....and prison and death penalty is for punishment.

Utter drivel.

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#175 BloodTorment1
Member since 2005 • 2580 Posts
I think pedophiles should be put to death.....but I have personal reasons for that so....
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#176 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180106 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] His point is incorrect then...Marx_Brother

I've heard quite a few times that the death penalty deters absolutely no more than a life sentence does.

Really? There are a lot of criminals that don't care if they are behind bars for life....and prison and death penalty is for punishment.

Utter drivel.

No...it's not. Of course, with such a well thought out response...it's rather hard to know what you are talking about.
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#177 Marx_Brother
Member since 2007 • 726 Posts

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="bt_the_great_78"] It's not pre-emptive, it's reactive. No one is executing people based upon crimes they might commit, but sentencing people for the crime they did commit. If a crime is of a certain nature and a history is shown, the punishment is logically more severe.bt_the_great_78
Well now you're totally contradicting yourself. You just said that the death penalty is to ensure that that particular non-person will never take another life again, however you now describe the measure as punishment. If it is punishment, then according to only this post, it accomplishes nothing BUT retribution.

It's not a contradiction at all. A person committed a crime and lost the right to live. They broke a trust, and no longer deserve the right to live amongst a population. They have demonstrated a propensity to murder other human beings (or something equally as atrocious), and can no longer be trusted in society.

Behind bars, these people aren't a danger to society, and I don't care if you say "But they can escape", that's not a problem of mine... that's a problem for the awful prison itself. Plus, I suppose when murderers are released when they are, say, 70 or 80 that they are still a major threat to the population, huh?

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#178 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180106 Posts

Behind bars, these people aren't a danger to society, and I don't care if you say "But they can escape", that's not a problem of mine... that's a problem for the awful prison itself. Plus, I suppose when murderers are released when they are, say, 70 or 80 that they are still a major threat to the population, huh?

Marx_Brother
Inmate murders are not unheard of dude.
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#179 Marx_Brother
Member since 2007 • 726 Posts
[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] His point is incorrect then...LJS9502_basic

I've heard quite a few times that the death penalty deters absolutely no more than a life sentence does.

Really? There are a lot of criminals that don't care if they are behind bars for life....and prison and death penalty is for punishment.

Utter drivel.

No...it's not. Of course, with such a well thought out response...it's rather hard to know what you are talking about.

What city are you living in when criminals don't care if they are stripped of complete liberty and locked in a cell for half their life? I'm surprised at you, being a Catholic, that supportes such stupid things as the death penalty all because you want less taxes. You talk out of your ass sometimes.

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#180 EboyLOL
Member since 2006 • 5358 Posts
No, since I don't believe that death is a suitable punishment.
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#181 Marx_Brother
Member since 2007 • 726 Posts
[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Behind bars, these people aren't a danger to society, and I don't care if you say "But they can escape", that's not a problem of mine... that's a problem for the awful prison itself. Plus, I suppose when murderers are released when they are, say, 70 or 80 that they are still a major threat to the population, huh?

LJS9502_basic

Inmate murders are not unheard of dude.

Well... a convicted murderer killing another murderer is all well and good in your sadistic eyes, isn't it?

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OODALOOP

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#182 OODALOOP
Member since 2004 • 36350 Posts

[QUOTE="bt_the_great_78"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="bt_the_great_78"] It's not pre-emptive, it's reactive. No one is executing people based upon crimes they might commit, but sentencing people for the crime they did commit. If a crime is of a certain nature and a history is shown, the punishment is logically more severe.Marx_Brother

Well now you're totally contradicting yourself. You just said that the death penalty is to ensure that that particular non-person will never take another life again, however you now describe the measure as punishment. If it is punishment, then according to only this post, it accomplishes nothing BUT retribution.

It's not a contradiction at all. A person committed a crime and lost the right to live. They broke a trust, and no longer deserve the right to live amongst a population. They have demonstrated a propensity to murder other human beings (or something equally as atrocious), and can no longer be trusted in society.

Behind bars, these people aren't a danger to society, and I don't care if you say "But they can escape", that's not a problem of mine... that's a problem for the awful prison itself. Plus, I suppose when murderers are released when they are, say, 70 or 80 that they are still a major threat to the population, huh?

I suggest you do some research on the subject. It's patently clear you have no background or understanding of the subject. You're just waving assumptions around, and appear completely unaware of the numbers. Of course there are men who get out, legitimately, and kill again.
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#183 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180106 Posts
 

What city are you living in when criminals don't care if they are stripped of complete liberty and locked in a cell for half their life? I'm surprised at you, being a Catholic, that supportes such stupid things as the death penalty all because you want less taxes. You talk out of your ass sometimes.

Marx_Brother

Again several problems with your post. There are criminals that prefer being locked in jail with everything taken care of forthem rather than having to make it on the outside. I'm rather surprised you've never heard of this....it's not uncommon. Second, I haven't stated whether I am for or against so you are just guessing. All I did was point out some things you said that were incorrect.

Taxes was in regard to paying for rehab for drug addicts......pay attention before posting.

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quiglythegreat

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#184 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

What city are you living in when criminals don't care if they are stripped of complete liberty and locked in a cell for half their life? I'm surprised at you, being a Catholic, that supportes such stupid things as the death penalty all because you want less taxes. You talk out of your ass sometimes.

LJS9502_basic
Again several problems with your post. There are criminals that prefer being locked in jail with everything taken care of forthem rather than having to make it on the outside. I'm rather surprised you've never heard of this....it's not uncommon. Second, I haven't stated whether I am for or against so you are just guessing. All I did was point out some things you said that were incorrect.

I think the point that people mind going to jail is a pretty valid one.
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Marx_Brother

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#185 Marx_Brother
Member since 2007 • 726 Posts
[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

[QUOTE="bt_the_great_78"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="bt_the_great_78"] It's not pre-emptive, it's reactive. No one is executing people based upon crimes they might commit, but sentencing people for the crime they did commit. If a crime is of a certain nature and a history is shown, the punishment is logically more severe.bt_the_great_78

Well now you're totally contradicting yourself. You just said that the death penalty is to ensure that that particular non-person will never take another life again, however you now describe the measure as punishment. If it is punishment, then according to only this post, it accomplishes nothing BUT retribution.

It's not a contradiction at all. A person committed a crime and lost the right to live. They broke a trust, and no longer deserve the right to live amongst a population. They have demonstrated a propensity to murder other human beings (or something equally as atrocious), and can no longer be trusted in society.

Behind bars, these people aren't a danger to society, and I don't care if you say "But they can escape", that's not a problem of mine... that's a problem for the awful prison itself. Plus, I suppose when murderers are released when they are, say, 70 or 80 that they are still a major threat to the population, huh?

I suggest you do some research on the subject. It's patently clear you have no background or understanding of the subject. You're just waving assumptions around, and appear completely unaware of the numbers. Of course there are men who get out, legitimately, and kill again.

That's to do with the length of sentence... Life should mean life, full stop. As I've said before on this thread, we can get more out of the criminals by making them work for the rest of their worthless lives rather than just killing them off.

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LJS9502_basic

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#186 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180106 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Behind bars, these people aren't a danger to society, and I don't care if you say "But they can escape", that's not a problem of mine... that's a problem for the awful prison itself. Plus, I suppose when murderers are released when they are, say, 70 or 80 that they are still a major threat to the population, huh?

Marx_Brother

Inmate murders are not unheard of dude.

Well... a convicted murderer killing another murderer is all well and good in your sadistic eyes, isn't it?

I'm correcting your mistake that behind bars criminals aren't a danger.
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aaaaarrrrggggg

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#187 aaaaarrrrggggg
Member since 2005 • 13979 Posts
Only for those who don't deserve it.
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LJS9502_basic

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#188 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180106 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] [QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

What city are you living in when criminals don't care if they are stripped of complete liberty and locked in a cell for half their life? I'm surprised at you, being a Catholic, that supportes such stupid things as the death penalty all because you want less taxes. You talk out of your ass sometimes.

quiglythegreat
Again several problems with your post. There are criminals that prefer being locked in jail with everything taken care of forthem rather than having to make it on the outside. I'm rather surprised you've never heard of this....it's not uncommon. Second, I haven't stated whether I am for or against so you are just guessing. All I did was point out some things you said that were incorrect.

I think the point that people mind going to jail is a pretty valid one.

There are criminals that get caught to get back into jail as I stated.......so it's not.
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quiglythegreat

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#189 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
[QUOTE="bt_the_great_78"] I suggest you do some research on the subject. It's patently clear you have no background or understanding of the subject. You're just waving assumptions around, and appear completely unaware of the numbers. Of course there are men who get out, legitimately, and kill again.

Aw, weak. No one here is suggesting that we should just let people go who would otherwise get the death sentence, or even some chance of parole or something. I mean, that's my stance at least, that life in prison should be the punishment. I have not heard of people escaping prison and killing again when they are sentenced for life, though I suppose it does happen. Then again, I have a feeling more people are killed by prison vehicles than in this manner.
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quiglythegreat

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#190 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] There are criminals that get caught to get back into jail as I stated.......so it's not.

I've heard of such things as well, but only in the Great Depression. I have not heard of a modern example of this, and certainly not one with murder, though it is not entirely beyond my doubt.
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Marx_Brother

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#191 Marx_Brother
Member since 2007 • 726 Posts
[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Behind bars, these people aren't a danger to society, and I don't care if you say "But they can escape", that's not a problem of mine... that's a problem for the awful prison itself. Plus, I suppose when murderers are released when they are, say, 70 or 80 that they are still a major threat to the population, huh?

LJS9502_basic

Inmate murders are not unheard of dude.

Well... a convicted murderer killing another murderer is all well and good in your sadistic eyes, isn't it?

I'm correcting your mistake that behind bars criminals aren't a danger.

Maybe if you state your opinion, this may be a little bit easier. Are you for or against the death penalty?

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OODALOOP

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#192 OODALOOP
Member since 2004 • 36350 Posts
As I've said before on this thread, we can get more out of the criminals by making them work for the rest of their worthless lives rather than just killing them off.Marx_Brother
I would agree with you and Quigly in theory. If a sentence for "life imprisonment" meant actual life in prison, if it meant they were owned by the state until death, and could be used for some purpose, then killing them would not only be unnecessary, but a poor decision financially. However, we have a crap system. It costs too much time and money to execute prisoners. And, when they get sentenced to anything other than life, they find their way out and commit more crimes. I have seen more than a few criminals that should have spent their entire lives behind bars find their way back on to the streets, only to commit crimes worse than what earned them a supposed "life sentence" the first time around. But, if it comes down to how much it costs to execute and how many people, statistically, will be murdered by early released, paroled, or escaped convicts, I'd always pick the innocent citizen life over the criminals. Sure, in a perfect world, prison and hard labor sounds like a great plan, but the only things prisons do is make criminals worse criminals, take our tax money, and fill up with people who commit pointless crimes (like drugs offenses) and let go people who commit violent crimes.
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OODALOOP

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#193 OODALOOP
Member since 2004 • 36350 Posts
killing again when they are sentenced for life, though I suppose it does happen..quiglythegreat
One of my younger sister's friends was raped, murdered, and left buried in the woods in just such an instance.
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#194 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]As I've said before on this thread, we can get more out of the criminals by making them work for the rest of their worthless lives rather than just killing them off.bt_the_great_78
I would agree with you and Quigly in theory. If a sentence for "life imprisonment" meant actual life in prison, if it meant they were owned by the state until death, and could be used for some purpose, then killing them would not only be unnecessary, but a poor decision financially. However, we have a crap system. It costs too much time and money to execute prisoners. And, when they get sentenced to anything other than life, they find their way out and commit more crimes. I have seen more than a few criminals that should have spent their entire lives behind bars find their way back on to the streets, only to commit crimes worse than what earned them a supposed "life sentence" the first time around. But, if it comes down to how much it costs to execute and how many people, statistically, will be murdered by early released, paroled, or escaped convicts, I'd always pick the innocent citizen life over the criminals. Sure, in a perfect world, prison and hard labor sounds like a great plan, but the only things prisons do is make criminals worse criminals, take our tax money, and fill up with people who commit pointless crimes (like drugs offenses) and let go people who commit violent crimes.

If they are not so much as convicted of their first offense, then how does the death penalty do a thing? It's messed up, but I'd rather have more people alive than more money.
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Trashface

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#195 Trashface
Member since 2006 • 3534 Posts
[QUOTE="Taegukki"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

I don't support the death penalty mainly because it just doesn't work.

Marx_Brother

Because so many who are executed go back out on the street to offend again?

USA impose the death penalty... do they get low crime? I think not. It's idiotic to just kill people off, use your brain.

It depends on the city as far as crime rate. Different states have different laws. it's idiotic to not have a suitable punishment. Don't be so ironic while telling someone to "use their brain".

Suitable punishment yes, killing them off, no. I'm not some guy that is soft on law and order, completely the opposite, but there are better ways of just executing them... we have moved on from the Middle Ages.

Better ways? Name one. The only other option is to keep them in the general populace of the prison system for the rest of their lives, in which case it creates more chances to kill (prison is hell) and costs the tax payer an arm and a leg. If the prisoners werent kept on death row for so long (some are there for 15 years or more) and just executed the same day as their sentence then the American government would save a lot of money. Killers deserve to die, plain and simple. If someone killed a member of your family I think you would want justice.

I don't know other ways of punishment, life in prison maybe, gulags.. take your pick. Also, who cares if it costs the tax payer, the government should not kill somebody otherwise there would be a giant circle of execution - governments set examples and give people other chances. However, with your logic, rapists should be raped in turn by state funded rapists.... :|

Repeat rapists should be castrated or executed.
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#196 Chessy_Nachos
Member since 2006 • 1563 Posts

Only for a brutal murder or repeat murders or something that involves people getting signifcantly hurt over and over again i do support the death penalty if they williling take lives of other people excecution should be oly reserved for people who have commited the worst of crimes even more than once and be granted due process of law.

But for petty crimes I would just suppose that extracting labor out of them is not bad.

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Dashtal

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#197 Dashtal
Member since 2007 • 748 Posts
Because it saves money. Seriously, think about that. If they lock someone up for life tat person has to be clothed, fed, and entertained. Killing them ensures (not always, but that's life)  that my taxes will be spent on something that's worth it. Or rather, more usefull.
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Trashface

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#198 Trashface
Member since 2006 • 3534 Posts
1. Killing in itself is not wrong. Justified and legal killing such as war and punishment is NEEDED in this world. This is NOT murder. Illegal and wrongful killing is what's considered as murder. 2. If one is found guilty in the current system, as imperfect as it is, then the Judge has every right to hand down the death penalty if it's allowed in his state. this in no way equates to what the offender did. Life in prison is a joke. Heartless murderers sitting on life sentences are nothing but a menace to smaller time offenders. They have no reason to care because they're in there for life. They're devouring our taxes as they terrorize and train other criminals. Let's not forget the weight benches and televisions we pay for. Let's not forget about parole elegibility too. Let's not forget the prison drug trade and large gang problems in prisons, all of which would be greatly crippled by a stern death penalty system. It's sickening how so many in today's society are much more willing to fight for the rights of the murderers instead of for the closure of victim's families. The death penalty is not wrong. You are not fighting murder with murder. The death penalty is in NO way the same as what the offender has done. The offender has broken the law and destroyed life. In doing this, he has willfully given his life as forfiet to the government.
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Davidhye

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#199 Davidhye
Member since 2005 • 12018 Posts
Eye for an eye - that's it. you killed a person - you die.
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romocop33

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#200 romocop33
Member since 2005 • 2755 Posts
[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="romocop33"][QUOTE="sonicare"]

romocop,

I agree with you that drug users shouldn't be incarcerated. They should be rehabiliated. They are addicts and victims.

However, drug dealers -> they should be arrested and imprisoned. They knowlingly sell drugs to people - in many cases - people from their own neighborhoods.

LJS9502_basic

sure, when a guy sells crack to a 14 year old kid, he should be locked up. but many people in prison on drug charges are just users. like the guy in texas who was locked up for life because he smoked a joint while on parole. luckily he got pardoned a couple weeks ago after like 17 years in prison. but 17 years is a long damn time for smoking pot.

Yes, i think users should be sent to rehab not prison.

Why should my taxes be increased because someone is irresponsible enough to get a drug problem by taking illegal drugs...

i wonder what costs less, 3-6 years in prison or 6 months in rehab?