Interesting read on mosque by ground zero.

Sounds like the old pope would have been very helpful. http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/08/27/moses.pope.john.paul/index.html?hpt=T2

I still don't understand why there is an issue or what the general population is arguing about.

I still don't understand why there is an issue or what the general population is arguing about.

thattotally

[QUOTE="thattotally"]

I still don't understand why there is an issue or what the general population is arguing about.

wstfld

First people THOUGHT it insensitive, it wasn't actually insensitive because the Muslims in no way relate to the ones on 9/11.. Secondly the man they are demonizing as the main supporter is actually one of the part owners of Fox News it self..

I miss John Paul II. The man was, if not a saint, very saintly.Theokhoth

I miss him too. :(

[QUOTE="thattotally"]

I still don't understand why there is an issue or what the general population is arguing about.

wstfld

they should be able to build it wherever they damn well please, the insensitive ones are the people putting radical muslims and regular ones in the same pile

Ground zero is a cemetary putting a Mosque anwyhere near it is an insult. There are hundreds of mosques in New Yorks, they don't need one there. There is a Greek Orthodox Church that was blown up in 911, which is being refused building permits. It would be like putting a monument to Imperial Japan at Pearl Harbor.

[QUOTE="wstfld"][QUOTE="thattotally"]

I still don't understand why there is an issue or what the general population is arguing about.

Chutebox

Its not even a massive mosque and i bet you can't tell its a mosque from outside either.

Besides, a mosque is a peaceful place of worship. And there are way too many good muslims out there and you should know that.

The way i see its everyones way of saying no to terrorism.

Because Muslims certainly weren't also victims of the 9/11 crash... NOT TO MENTION THE EVENTS AFTERWARDS.

But naturally none know of the cases that happened to people of Middle Eastern heritage and the stuff they endured that would make anyone's blood boil.

My gosh... you know I once saw this clip about how a restaurant in some part of the US... well the people there they don't mind black folks per se... I mean they don't put on white ghost costumes and lynch them but... they just don't want any black people eating at their joint, the place they go to rest every single evening. It's the best thing to look forward to after a hard day's work.

So is it so much to ask for black people to consider the sensitivity and bull bull bull blah blah oh-my-gosh-I-can't-believe-what-I'm-reading-is-it-2010-or-am-I-missing-something bull.

Also... I hope you know why terrorists and poor uneducated saps who join such organizations show such disdain towards the West and US... learn your history. When you're poor and uneducated you don't really let things go when your oppressors and back stabbers are flourishing. Just saying.

Because Muslims certainly weren't also victims of the 9/11 crash... NOT TO MENTION THE EVENTS AFTERWARDS.

But naturally none know of the cases that happened to people of Middle Eastern heritage and the stuff they endured that would make anyone's blood boil.

My gosh... you know I once saw this clip about how a restaurant in some part of the US... well the people there they don't mind black folks per se... I mean they don't put on white ghost costumes and lynch them but... they just don't want any black people eating at their joint, the place they go to rest every single evening. It's the best thing to look forward to after a hard day's work.

So is it so much to ask for black people to consider the sensitivity and bull bull bull blah blah oh-my-gosh-I-can't-believe-what-I'm-reading-is-it-2010-or-am-I-missing-something bull.

Also... I hope you know why terrorists and poor uneducated saps who join such organizations show such disdain towards the West and US... learn your history. When you're poor and uneducated you don't really let things go when your oppressors and back stabbers are flourishing. Just saying.

Pope John Paul don't know my opinion on ****!

Because Muslims certainly weren't also victims of the 9/11 crash... NOT TO MENTION THE EVENTS AFTERWARDS.

But naturally none know of the cases that happened to people of Middle Eastern heritage and the stuff they endured that would make anyone's blood boil.

My gosh... you know I once saw this clip about how a restaurant in some part of the US... well the people there they don't mind black folks per se... I mean they don't put on white ghost costumes and lynch them but... they just don't want any black people eating at their joint, the place they go to rest every single evening. It's the best thing to look forward to after a hard day's work.

So is it so much to ask for black people to consider the sensitivity and bull bull bull blah blah oh-my-gosh-I-can't-believe-what-I'm-reading-is-it-2010-or-am-I-missing-something bull.

Also... I hope you know why terrorists and poor uneducated saps who join such organizations show such disdain towards the West and US... learn your history. When you're poor and uneducated you don't really let things go when your oppressors and back stabbers are flourishing. Just saying.

thattotally

Good Pope, but I just don't agree with the author. Intentionally being jerks is no way to build bridges.

There is freedom of religion in America. That makes it legally OK for them to build a mosque.
Here is the problem - insensitivity.
America gave muslims the right to practice their religion in this country. Its not a god given right. So, why upset so many Americans? Why not just build it elsewhere?
Its like biting the hand that feeds you. Its like they are trying to make a point. That's the only problem I have. I mean if any other religion was involved in 9/11, I would oppose building their structures near ground zero. Its just human. There are limits to how much people can tolerate.
Why do the muslims want to keep using our laws to hurts us?doom3lv

What "elsewhere" would you like, out of curiosity?

I ask because there's already a mosque four blocks away from Ground Zero; is four blocks away better than two blocks away? Or should it maybe be moved as well?

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]There is freedom of religion in America. That makes it legally OK for them to build a mosque.
Here is the problem - insensitivity.
America gave muslims the right to practice their religion in this country. Its not a god given right. So, why upset so many Americans? Why not just build it elsewhere?
Its like biting the hand that feeds you. Its like they are trying to make a point. That's the only problem I have. I mean if any other religion was involved in 9/11, I would oppose building their structures near ground zero. Its just human. There are limits to how much people can tolerate.
Why do the muslims want to keep using our laws to hurts us?GabuEx

What "elsewhere" would you like, out of curiosity?

I ask because there's already a mosque four blocks away from Ground Zero; is four blocks away better than two blocks away? Or should it maybe be moved as well?

I would personally like it if there were no mosques in America or if Muslim laws were forbidden such as the Burka, which insults women. I know some Scandinavian countries were doing this, outlawing Burkas, because it is unfair treatment of women. I don't know why Islam has to portray them as dirt, which desearves to be honor killed if they are raped, or beaten if they don't obey, it disgusts me.

Where is woman's rights when you need it?

I would personally like it if there were no mosques in America or if Muslim laws were forbidden such as the Burka, which insults women. I know some Scandinavian countries were doing this, outlawing Burkas, because it is unfair treatment of women. I don't know why Islam has to portray them as dirt, which desearves to be honor killed if they are raped, or beaten if they don't obey, it disgusts me.

Where is woman's rights when you need it?

VisigothSaxon

Most Americans are against shariah law. Unless you're a judge in New Jersey. He thinks it's okay for a man to rape his wife.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]There is freedom of religion in America. That makes it legally OK for them to build a mosque.
Here is the problem - insensitivity.
America gave muslims the right to practice their religion in this country. Its not a god given right. So, why upset so many Americans? Why not just build it elsewhere?
Its like biting the hand that feeds you. Its like they are trying to make a point. That's the only problem I have. I mean if any other religion was involved in 9/11, I would oppose building their structures near ground zero. Its just human. There are limits to how much people can tolerate.
Why do the muslims want to keep using our laws to hurts us?VisigothSaxon

What "elsewhere" would you like, out of curiosity?

I ask because there's already a mosque four blocks away from Ground Zero; is four blocks away better than two blocks away? Or should it maybe be moved as well?

I would personally like it if there were no mosques in America or if Muslim laws were forbidden such as the Burka, which insults women. I know some Scandinavian countries were doing this, outlawing Burkas, because it is unfair treatment of women. I don't know why Islam has to portray them as dirt, which desearves to be honor killed if they are raped, or beaten if they don't obey, it disgusts me.

Where is woman's rights when you need it?

Why do people think all Muslims are the same? I'm going out drinking with a Muslim girl tonight. No Burka in sight. Methinks you are woefully ignorant.

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

What "elsewhere" would you like, out of curiosity?

I ask because there's already a mosque four blocks away from Ground Zero; is four blocks away better than two blocks away? Or should it maybe be moved as well?

wstfld

I would personally like it if there were no mosques in America or if Muslim laws were forbidden such as the Burka, which insults women. I know some Scandinavian countries were doing this, outlawing Burkas, because it is unfair treatment of women. I don't know why Islam has to portray them as dirt, which desearves to be honor killed if they are raped, or beaten if they don't obey, it disgusts me.

Where is woman's rights when you need it?

Why do people think all Muslims are the same? I'm going out drinking with a Muslim girl tonight. No Burka in sight. Methinks you are woefully ignorant.

Did I say every muslim? Methinks you assume too much. The fact of the matter is that the cultor promotes violence and poor treatment of women. I am glad you don't follow that culture.

I find it rather hilarious that many say " Well build it elsewhere", mostly because they've bought the property, Imagine if you were told to move elsewhere by everybody around you because they didn't like whatever you were going to build there, and that there is a mosque already four blocks away . There's even a mosque inside the Pentagon, that was also hit on 9/11, but nobody has been complaining about that. The bottom line is that Muslims, Mosques and especially those with Middle-eastern background are now more or less portrayed as Terrorists and they only live to blow up buildings and spread chaos and death, which couldn't be further from the truth if you stuffed it in a rocket and sent it into orbit around Saturn. Saying that it is insensitive to build a Mosque there might be a minor truth but that is far from the reason why so many seem to oppose it.Treflis

The pentagon has a prayer room. Not a mosque. And it's run by a military chaplain. Not the same as an Imam who has some radical ideas.

I would personally like it if there were no mosques in America or if Muslim laws were forbidden such as the Burka, which insults women. I know some Scandinavian countries were doing this, outlawing Burkas, because it is unfair treatment of women. I don't know why Islam has to portray them as dirt, which desearves to be honor killed if they are raped, or beaten if they don't obey, it disgusts me.

Where is woman's rights when you need it?

VisigothSaxon

I'm fairly sure that we have both women's rights and mosques in America, so, um, I'm not really sure what you're saying here.

Furthermore, the existence of cultural centers such as mosques actively prevent radicalization of American Muslims by ensuring that they do not experience social isolation, so your proposed banning of mosques in America would have the exact opposite effect that you're looking for.

[QUOTE="Treflis"]I find it rather hilarious that many say " Well build it elsewhere", mostly because they've bought the property, Imagine if you were told to move elsewhere by everybody around you because they didn't like whatever you were going to build there, and that there is a mosque already four blocks away . There's even a mosque inside the Pentagon, that was also hit on 9/11, but nobody has been complaining about that. The bottom line is that Muslims, Mosques and especially those with Middle-eastern background are now more or less portrayed as Terrorists and they only live to blow up buildings and spread chaos and death, which couldn't be further from the truth if you stuffed it in a rocket and sent it into orbit around Saturn. Saying that it is insensitive to build a Mosque there might be a minor truth but that is far from the reason why so many seem to oppose it.airshocker

The pentagon has a prayer room. Not a mosque. And it's run by a military chaplain. Not the same as an Imam who has some radical ideas.

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

I would personally like it if there were no mosques in America or if Muslim laws were forbidden such as the Burka, which insults women. I know some Scandinavian countries were doing this, outlawing Burkas, because it is unfair treatment of women. I don't know why Islam has to portray them as dirt, which desearves to be honor killed if they are raped, or beaten if they don't obey, it disgusts me.

Where is woman's rights when you need it?

GabuEx

I'm fairly sure that we have both women's rights and mosques in America, so, um, I'm not really sure what you're saying here.

Furthermore, the existence of cultural centers such as mosques actively prevent radicalization of American Muslims by ensuring that they do not experience social isolation, so your proposed banning of mosques in America would have the exact opposite effect that you're looking for.

Bah, I guess you don't get it. Yes, Woman in America have full rights, Muslim women in America do not. Muslim Woman in the Middle-East have less rights than a donkey. See my point? We need to ban the bad social norms that mosques bring, such as Honorkilling, Suicide Bombing, Burkas, and all the other cruelties to woman, such as wife beating. I was next to a Muslim family when I was a kid, I was best friends with one of them, we had to call the police on his father 2 times because he beat his wife so that she ran to our door. I am sorry, but this shouldn't be allowed in America.

I would personally like it if there were no mosques in America or if Muslim laws were forbidden such as the Burka, which insults women. I know some Scandinavian countries were doing this, outlawing Burkas, because it is unfair treatment of women. I don't know why Islam has to portray them as dirt, which desearves to be honor killed if they are raped, or beaten if they don't obey, it disgusts me.

Where is woman's rights when you need it?VisigothSaxon

Anecdotal evidence does not prove that Islam is evil.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

I would personally like it if there were no mosques in America or if Muslim laws were forbidden such as the Burka, which insults women. I know some Scandinavian countries were doing this, outlawing Burkas, because it is unfair treatment of women. I don't know why Islam has to portray them as dirt, which desearves to be honor killed if they are raped, or beaten if they don't obey, it disgusts me.

Where is woman's rights when you need it?

VisigothSaxon

I'm fairly sure that we have both women's rights and mosques in America, so, um, I'm not really sure what you're saying here.

Furthermore, the existence of cultural centers such as mosques actively prevent radicalization of American Muslims by ensuring that they do not experience social isolation, so your proposed banning of mosques in America would have the exact opposite effect that you're looking for.

Bah, I guess you don't get it. Yes, Woman in America have full rights, Muslim women in America do not.

And you know for a fact the Mosque will have a Imam with radical ideas? Or are the ideals radical because they are different from, say, Christian ideals?Treflis

I'd say anybody who won't denounce Hamas as being a terrorist organization is radical. I'd also say anybody who calls the US an accessary to 9/11 is a radical.

Lastly, I don't practice a religion.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Treflis"]I find it rather hilarious that many say " Well build it elsewhere", mostly because they've bought the property, Imagine if you were told to move elsewhere by everybody around you because they didn't like whatever you were going to build there, and that there is a mosque already four blocks away . There's even a mosque inside the Pentagon, that was also hit on 9/11, but nobody has been complaining about that. The bottom line is that Muslims, Mosques and especially those with Middle-eastern background are now more or less portrayed as Terrorists and they only live to blow up buildings and spread chaos and death, which couldn't be further from the truth if you stuffed it in a rocket and sent it into orbit around Saturn. Saying that it is insensitive to build a Mosque there might be a minor truth but that is far from the reason why so many seem to oppose it.Treflis

The pentagon has a prayer room. Not a mosque. And it's run by a military chaplain. Not the same as an Imam who has some radical ideas.

Wouldn't you call Suicide Bombing Radical? Or death threats to the Southpark Creators radical? Or death threats to the Muhammad cartoonist, radical(I think they actually killed this guy though :/. Do Christians run around doing this? No, and Christians can take a joke, unlike muslims.

Bah, I guess you don't get it. Yes, Woman in America have full rights, Muslim women in America do not. Muslim Woman in the Middle-East have less rights than a donkey. See my point? We need to ban the bad social norms that mosques bring, such as Honorkilling, Suicide Bombing, Burkas, and all the other cruelties to woman, such as wife beating. I was next to a Muslim family when I was a kid, I was best friends with one of them, we had to call the police on his father 2 times because he beat his wife so that she ran to our door. I am sorry, but this shouldn't be allowed in America.

VisigothSaxon

Muslim women in America do not?

And you're basing this off of one single case of an abusive Muslim parent?

I'm assuming you didn't read the link, either.

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I'm fairly sure that we have both women's rights and mosques in America, so, um, I'm not really sure what you're saying here.

Furthermore, the existence of cultural centers such as mosques actively prevent radicalization of American Muslims by ensuring that they do not experience social isolation, so your proposed banning of mosques in America would have the exact opposite effect that you're looking for.

Theokhoth

Bah, I guess you don't get it. Yes, Woman in America have full rights, Muslim women in America do not.

Do you seriously think wearing a burka and being beaten by their husband is what they want or how they want to practice their religion?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

Bah, I guess you don't get it. Yes, Woman in America have full rights, Muslim women in America do not.

VisigothSaxon

Do you seriously think wearing a burka and being beaten by their husband is what they want or how they want to practice their religion?

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

Bah, I guess you don't get it. Yes, Woman in America have full rights, Muslim women in America do not. Muslim Woman in the Middle-East have less rights than a donkey. See my point? We need to ban the bad social norms that mosques bring, such as Honorkilling, Suicide Bombing, Burkas, and all the other cruelties to woman, such as wife beating. I was next to a Muslim family when I was a kid, I was best friends with one of them, we had to call the police on his father 2 times because he beat his wife so that she ran to our door. I am sorry, but this shouldn't be allowed in America.

GabuEx

Muslim women in America do not?

And you're basing this off of one single case of an abusive Muslim parent?

I'm assuming you didn't read the link, either.

No I didn't I will have to look at it later. I am not basing it off a single case and Muslim women in America wear Burkas and they are still treated like dirt by muslim men.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

Bah, I guess you don't get it. Yes, Woman in America have full rights, Muslim women in America do not.

VisigothSaxon

Do you seriously think wearing a burka and being beaten by their husband is what they want or how they want to practice their religion?

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"] Yes they do. :| Telling them they can't practice their religion would be taking some of those rights away. :|ghoklebutter

Do you seriously think wearing a burka and being beaten by their husband is what they want or how they want to practice their religion?

I never said all, I am saying that it happens because that is a part of their culture, believe me I know. I am saying this type of cultural treatment should not be allowed. And many muslim women are treated like garbage, and wear burkas. Its worse for the one in the middle east, because if they are raped, their brother and father honor kills them.

No I didn't I will have to look at it later. I am not basing it off a single case and Muslim women in America wear Burkas and they are still treated like dirt by muslim men.

VisigothSaxon

And your source for this is... what?

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"] Yes they do. :| Telling them they can't practice their religion would be taking some of those rights away. :|Theokhoth

Do you seriously think wearing a burka and being beaten by their husband is what they want or how they want to practice their religion?

Yes, but does Christianity promote Wife Beating, No? Does Islam, yes. I said not all wear the Burqa, but they are still restrained by it and treated like garbage.

Woman in America have full rights, Muslim women in America do not.

VisigothSaxon

Did you read that post where I wrote that I'm going out drinking with a Muslim girl?

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

No I didn't I will have to look at it later. I am not basing it off a single case and Muslim women in America wear Burkas and they are still treated like dirt by muslim men.

GabuEx

And your source for this is... what?

The news, I hear of this sick behavior almost everyday. Muslim men are terrible and desearve to suffer for how they treat woman, not all of them are like this, but their are plenty that are. Look at all the sick stuff muslim men do over in the middle east, such as the honor killing. Look at how muslim men think its okay to beat their wives. What about this picture isn't wrong or true. Again, not all muslim men do this.

[QUOTE="Treflis"][QUOTE="airshocker"]

The pentagon has a prayer room. Not a mosque. And it's run by a military chaplain. Not the same as an Imam who has some radical ideas.

VisigothSaxon

Wouldn't you call Suicide Bombing Radical? Or death threats to the Southpark Creators radical? Or death threats to the Muhammad cartoonist, radical(I think they actually killed this guy though :/. Do Christians run around doing this? No, and Christians can take a joke, unlike muslims.

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

Woman in America have full rights, Muslim women in America do not.

wstfld

Did you read that post where I wrote that I'm going out drinking with a Muslim girl?

Not all of them are as lucky as that Girl. It is a good thing she is not Married to a devout Muslim man, or she would be wearing a Burqa. Why do you think countries in Europe wanted to ban the Burqa because its degrading to women, can you not see this point?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

No I didn't I will have to look at it later. I am not basing it off a single case and Muslim women in America wear Burkas and they are still treated like dirt by muslim men.

VisigothSaxon

And your source for this is... what?

The news, I hear of this sick behavior almost everyday. Muslim men are terrible and desearve to suffer for how they treat woman, not all of them are like this, but their are plenty that are. Look at all the sick stuff muslim men do over in the middle east, such as the honor killing. Look at how muslim men think its okay to beat their wives. What about this picture isn't wrong or true. Again, not all muslim men do this.