Interesting read on mosque by ground zero.

[QUOTE="squitsquat"]

they should be able to build it wherever they damn well please, the insensitive ones are the people putting radical muslims and regular ones in the same pile

dragonfly110

have you lost anyone to 9/11? I doubt youd be remarking in the same way if you had. Many times women go into denial over whether our lord is a man if they were abused by men, does that just mean that they are being overly sensitive as well by grouping all men together? 9/11 was a traumatic event for thousands of americans, and no matter if theyre radical or not the fact is that it was caused by a splinter of the muslim religion, being a devote christian I can honestly say that if a group of catholics caused this tragedy my opinion would be the same.

[QUOTE="squitsquat"]

they should be able to build it wherever they damn well please, the insensitive ones are the people putting radical muslims and regular ones in the same pile

dragonfly110

Many times women go into denial over whether our lord is a man if they were abused by men, does that just mean that they are being overly sensitive as well by grouping all men together?

EDIT: Well, maybe overly sensitive is a better choice of words. Or, just plain irrational.

"and they also have the freedom to build their mosque elsewhere. i suggest that they use this right. i mean, people respect them for their beliefs, but please just try to UNDERSTAND the feelings of the families of the victims."

(won't let me do a second quote)

911 wasn't caused by all Muslims there are no feelings to understand unless those related to the victims are racist or ignorant. There have been people related to the victims supporting the mosque. Don't assume that all people think the same way. It's like when companies want to make a game based on the Iraq war (like the one that can't find a publisher or the new Medal of Honor) and people against it say it is an insult to the soldiers, completely ignoring all the soldiers saying, hell yeah I'd play it.

[QUOTE="VisigothSaxon"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

And your source for this is... what?

GabuEx

The news, I hear of this sick behavior almost everyday. Muslim men are terrible and desearve to suffer for how they treat woman, not all of them are like this, but their are plenty that are. Look at all the sick stuff muslim men do over in the middle east, such as the honor killing. Look at how muslim men think its okay to beat their wives. What about this picture isn't wrong or true. Again, not all muslim men do this.

So in other words your source is your own impression formed from watching programs whose entire method of making money is creating as many negative emotions as they possibly can in order to acquire and maintain their viewership.

That doesn't sound like a terribly authoritative source you have there.

Please cite the passage from the Qur'an that supports wife beating, if you would.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]There is freedom of religion in America. That makes it legally OK for them to build a mosque.
Here is the problem - insensitivity.
America gave muslims the right to practice their religion in this country. Its not a god given right. So, why upset so many Americans? Why not just build it elsewhere?
Its like biting the hand that feeds you. Its like they are trying to make a point. That's the only problem I have. I mean if any other religion was involved in 9/11, I would oppose building their structures near ground zero. Its just human. There are limits to how much people can tolerate.
Why do the muslims want to keep using our laws to hurts us?GabuEx

What "elsewhere" would you like, out of curiosity?

I ask because there's already a mosque four blocks away from Ground Zero; is four blocks away better than two blocks away? Or should it maybe be moved as well?

one of the main purpose of burqa is to hide womens beauty so you wouldnt have people making filthy comments and degrading women e.g. sometimes when my friend sees some hot chick walking down the road he always asks me "would you **** her?" like seriously wtf thats what i call degradationbut its not all his faultsikanderahmed

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]There is freedom of religion in America. That makes it legally OK for them to build a mosque.
Here is the problem - insensitivity.
America gave muslims the right to practice their religion in this country. Its not a god given right. So, why upset so many Americans? Why not just build it elsewhere?
Its like biting the hand that feeds you. Its like they are trying to make a point. That's the only problem I have. I mean if any other religion was involved in 9/11, I would oppose building their structures near ground zero. Its just human. There are limits to how much people can tolerate.
Why do the muslims want to keep using our laws to hurts us?doom3lv

What "elsewhere" would you like, out of curiosity?

I ask because there's already a mosque four blocks away from Ground Zero; is four blocks away better than two blocks away? Or should it maybe be moved as well?

They aren't breaking any of our rules by practicing their religion or opening a mosque or adhering to Sharia Law. In fact, they are well within our rules: our rules are "People can practice their religion freely." That was kind of a big thing when people first came here.

Why is it that people say "They treat us like crap in X part of the world; why can't we do the same?" Because WE'RE ABOVE THAT. You praise this country and its ideals but you want to stoop to the ideals of Dubai or whatever for people you don't agree with? Don't you get that that does absolutely nothing but defeat the purpose? At that point all you have is Dubai for Westerners; our motto goes from "Give us your tired" to "Welcome: No burqas allowed."

[QUOTE="squitsquat"]

they should be able to build it wherever they damn well please, the insensitive ones are the people putting radical muslims and regular ones in the same pile

dragonfly110

have you lost anyone to 9/11? I doubt youd be remarking in the same way if you had. Many times women go into denial over whether our lord is a man if they were abused by men, does that just mean that they are being overly sensitive as well by grouping all men together? 9/11 was a traumatic event for thousands of americans, and no matter if theyre radical or not the fact is that it was caused by a splinter of the muslim religion, being a devote christian I can honestly say that if a group of catholics caused this tragedy my opinion would be the same.

So do you believe we should overturn freedom of religion to prevent building of the mosque?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]There is freedom of religion in America. That makes it legally OK for them to build a mosque.
Here is the problem - insensitivity.
America gave muslims the right to practice their religion in this country. Its not a god given right. So, why upset so many Americans? Why not just build it elsewhere?
Its like biting the hand that feeds you. Its like they are trying to make a point. That's the only problem I have. I mean if any other religion was involved in 9/11, I would oppose building their structures near ground zero. Its just human. There are limits to how much people can tolerate.
Why do the muslims want to keep using our laws to hurts us?doom3lv

What "elsewhere" would you like, out of curiosity?

I ask because there's already a mosque four blocks away from Ground Zero; is four blocks away better than two blocks away? Or should it maybe be moved as well?

Churches represent some forms of oppression to me (oppression of homosexuals, for instance.)

I don't want churches to be torn down, though.

Also the reason we don't return the same favor is because we like to believe we're better than them as oppossed to being a theocracy. Would you prefer we become a theocracy?

And I find it hard to believe you do welcome muslims here if you say you wish they had no places to practice their religion. If I said "I welcome all Christians...But I want all churches demolished" people would call me out on that.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

What "elsewhere" would you like, out of curiosity?

I ask because there's already a mosque four blocks away from Ground Zero; is four blocks away better than two blocks away? Or should it maybe be moved as well?

Theokhoth

They aren't breaking any of our rules by practicing their religion or opening a mosque or adhering to Sharia Law. In fact, they are well within our rules: our rules are "People can practice their religion freely." That was kind of a big thing when people first came here.

Why is it that people say "They treat us like crap in X part of the world; why can't we do the same?" Because WE'RE ABOVE THAT. You praise this country and its ideals but you want to stoop to the ideals of Dubai or whatever for people you don't agree with? Don't you get that that does absolutely nothing but defeat the purpose? At that point all you have is Dubai for Westerners; our motto goes from "Give us your tired" to "Welcome: No burqas allowed."

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

pronz itself is degradation of women

sikanderahmed

one of the main purpose of burqa is to hide womens beauty so you wouldnt have people making filthy comments and degrading women e.g. sometimes when my friend sees some hot chick walking down the road he always asks me "would you **** her?" like seriously wtf thats what i call degradationbut its not all his fault, if the women was fully covered my friend wouldnt ask such thing. didnt jesus say that he who sees women with lust has already commited adultery in their heart? well the only way you can not see a hot chick with lust is if shes fully covered. so i say even christianity supports full body cover

also burqa significantly reduces chances of crimes against women like rape. its obvious

[QUOTE="dragonfly110"]

[QUOTE="squitsquat"]

they should be able to build it wherever they damn well please, the insensitive ones are the people putting radical muslims and regular ones in the same pile

Pixel-Pirate

have you lost anyone to 9/11? I doubt youd be remarking in the same way if you had. Many times women go into denial over whether our lord is a man if they were abused by men, does that just mean that they are being overly sensitive as well by grouping all men together? 9/11 was a traumatic event for thousands of americans, and no matter if theyre radical or not the fact is that it was caused by a splinter of the muslim religion, being a devote christian I can honestly say that if a group of catholics caused this tragedy my opinion would be the same.

So do you believe we should overturn freedom of religion to prevent building of the mosque?

Im not saying they cannot build the mossque Im saying that they should have to build it further way. That is not blocking people's freedom of religion, that is simply giving respect to all the lives lost on 9/11.

Eh, from everything I've heard the best way to reduce chances of rape and sex crimes is to not make sex taboo. Places where sex isn't treated as some evil deed and kept away from all public eyes seem to have lower cases of rape.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="dragonfly110"]

have you lost anyone to 9/11? I doubt youd be remarking in the same way if you had. Many times women go into denial over whether our lord is a man if they were abused by men, does that just mean that they are being overly sensitive as well by grouping all men together? 9/11 was a traumatic event for thousands of americans, and no matter if theyre radical or not the fact is that it was caused by a splinter of the muslim religion, being a devote christian I can honestly say that if a group of catholics caused this tragedy my opinion would be the same.

dragonfly110

So do you believe we should overturn freedom of religion to prevent building of the mosque?

Im not saying they cannot build the mossque Im saying that they should have to build it further way. That is not blocking people's freedom of religion, that is simply giving respect to all the lives lost on 9/11.

Telling them they cannot build it somewhere when zoning regulations allow it and they own the land is indeed blocking their freedom of religion.

I believe it shouldn't be near there and I'm a frickin muslim.rockerbikie

I miss John Paul II. The man was, if not a saint, very saintly.Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]I miss John Paul II. The man was, if not a saint, very saintly.whipassmt

Makes it sound like a video game ranking system.

"You are.....Venerable! Try harder next time for the blessed rank!"

There is freedom of religion in America. That makes it legally OK for them to build a mosque.
Here is the problem - insensitivity.
America gave muslims the right to practice their religion in this country. Its not a god given right. So, why upset so many Americans? Why not just build it elsewhere?
Its like biting the hand that feeds you. Its like they are trying to make a point. That's the only problem I have. I mean if any other religion was involved in 9/11, I would oppose building their structures near ground zero. Its just human. There are limits to how much people can tolerate.
Why do the muslims want to keep using our laws to hurts us?doom3lv

Strangely, I think the problem is sensitivity. People need to get a grip with this issue; it's just an innocent building.

All in all, at least in America muslims are allowed to build mosques. In most Muslim countries Christians can't build churches (I think Qatar recently allowed churches to be built provided that there are no crosses on the outside of it).

Also, if i'm correct isn't there also a Greek Orthodox church that has been trying to get rebuilt and hasn't yet been approved?

I believe it shouldn't be near there and I'm a frickin muslim.rockerbikie

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]There is freedom of religion in America. That makes it legally OK for them to build a mosque.
Here is the problem - insensitivity.
America gave muslims the right to practice their religion in this country. Its not a god given right. So, why upset so many Americans? Why not just build it elsewhere?
Its like biting the hand that feeds you. Its like they are trying to make a point. That's the only problem I have. I mean if any other religion was involved in 9/11, I would oppose building their structures near ground zero. Its just human. There are limits to how much people can tolerate.
Why do the muslims want to keep using our laws to hurts us?Leejjohno

Strangely, I think the problem is sensitivity. People need to get a grip with this issue; it's just an innocent building.

[QUOTE="rockerbikie"]I believe it shouldn't be near there and I'm a frickin muslim.Snipes_2

[QUOTE="rockerbikie"]I believe it shouldn't be near there and I'm a frickin muslim.ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]I miss John Paul II. The man was, if not a saint, very saintly.Pixel-Pirate

Makes it sound like a video game ranking system.

"You are.....Venerable! Try harder next time for the blessed rank!"

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="rockerbikie"]I believe it shouldn't be near there and I'm a frickin muslim.doom3lv

[QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]There is freedom of religion in America. That makes it legally OK for them to build a mosque.
Here is the problem - insensitivity.
America gave muslims the right to practice their religion in this country. Its not a god given right. So, why upset so many Americans? Why not just build it elsewhere?
Its like biting the hand that feeds you. Its like they are trying to make a point. That's the only problem I have. I mean if any other religion was involved in 9/11, I would oppose building their structures near ground zero. Its just human. There are limits to how much people can tolerate.
Why do the muslims want to keep using our laws to hurts us?doom3lv

Strangely, I think the problem is sensitivity. People need to get a grip with this issue; it's just an innocent building.

What does that have to do with anything?

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

What "elsewhere" would you like, out of curiosity?

I ask because there's already a mosque four blocks away from Ground Zero; is four blocks away better than two blocks away? Or should it maybe be moved as well?

Pixel-Pirate

Churches represent some forms of oppression to me (oppression of homosexuals, for instance.)

I don't want churches to be torn down, though.

Also the reason we don't return the same favor is because we like to believe we're better than them as oppossed to being a theocracy. Would you prefer we become a theocracy?

And I find it hard to believe you do welcome muslims here if you say you wish they had no places to practice their religion. If I said "I welcome all Christians...But I want all churches demolished" people would call me out on that.

Hey guys, the terrorists came in from Canada! Therefore, we should ban Canadians from doing anything Canada-related near the World Trade Center!Theokhoth

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="rockerbikie"] Wow, That's a first. Bravo. Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Bravo. And Thank you. rockerbikie

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] This is a hypothetical question, so I am going to answer it.
If it were up to me, I would have no mosques anywhere in the western hemisphere. At this point you are going to call me a racist, bigot and other mean things.
So let me clarify a little bit. The reason I don't want them is because mosques represent an oppressive culture (in my mind). Places like Dubai and so on (which are supposedly west friendly), constantly issue warnings to westerners saying "Please respect our culture and do not wear short clothes.". I know this because I have been to Dubai.
So when they constantly remind us that we are in their land and that we must obey their rules, why don't we return the same favor?
The reason this does not happen is because taking pride in American way of life automatically turns into a racist. So be it. I can live with that. I know I am not a racist. I welcome muslims in this country, as long as they are willing to live by our rules, one of which includes not having a Sharia Law. whipassmt

Churches represent some forms of oppression to me (oppression of homosexuals, for instance.)

I don't want churches to be torn down, though.

Also the reason we don't return the same favor is because we like to believe we're better than them as oppossed to being a theocracy. Would you prefer we become a theocracy?

And I find it hard to believe you do welcome muslims here if you say you wish they had no places to practice their religion. If I said "I welcome all Christians...But I want all churches demolished" people would call me out on that.

Isn't it a little generalizing to accuse an entire religion of oppressing women?

Also I'd say funneling millions into campaigns to have homosexual marriage, adoption, etc banned....

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="rockerbikie"]I believe it shouldn't be near there and I'm a frickin muslim.Snipes_2

Here's my full opinion on the matter.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Bravo. And Thank you. rockerbikie

Again this sin't sim city and people don't get an infinite money code.

[QUOTE="rockerbikie"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Are you the same guy? :PSnipes_2

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Hey guys, the terrorists came in from Canada! Therefore, we should ban Canadians from doing anything Canada-related near the World Trade Center!Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Hey guys, the terrorists came in from Canada! Therefore, we should ban Canadians from doing anything Canada-related near the World Trade Center!scorch-62

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="rockerbikie"] No, I just believe some building should not be built in certain locations, I mean they have all of New York to find a suitable building, I mean they would find something just as worthy.rockerbikie

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Hey guys, the terrorists came in from Canada! Therefore, we should ban Canadians from doing anything Canada-related near the World Trade Center!scorch-62

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="scorch-62"] ^ Missed the point.doom3lv

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="scorch-62"] ^ Missed the point.doom3lv

Do you really believe all muslims are immigrants?

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Churches represent some forms of oppression to me (oppression of homosexuals, for instance.)

I don't want churches to be torn down, though.

Also the reason we don't return the same favor is because we like to believe we're better than them as oppossed to being a theocracy. Would you prefer we become a theocracy?

And I find it hard to believe you do welcome muslims here if you say you wish they had no places to practice their religion. If I said "I welcome all Christians...But I want all churches demolished" people would call me out on that.

Pixel-Pirate

Isn't it a little generalizing to accuse an entire religion of oppressing women?

Also I'd say funneling millions into campaigns to have homosexual marriage, adoption, etc banned....

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="doom3lv"]The point is, they will use any argument in the book to say that America should tolerate their religion. The hypocrisy is unbelievable at times. Why do the muslims want freedom of religion when they never offer any? doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] I hope you have a flame shield :PSnipes_2

Because of course, those things are unimportant.