Is God avoiding us?

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Lmao you think its bad now, you should see what it was like when god supposedly came witht he coming of Jesus.. Man this god character sure likes to stereotype 6 billion people.Silver_Dragon17

Huh? I don't understand.:?:?:?

Your saying that god has no reason to show their face to mankind for what we have done.. Yet supposedly they sent their son (Christian belief of course) in a time that was far FAR more violent, oppresive, and not fun to live in.. Another thing I don't understand is why must god punish the people who believe or of good character over the people who are unpleasent? I would think he/she/it would not stereotype the entire world as "evil". And I also believe redemption is one of the cornerstones to Christian belief...

Lets not forget why would god care about if they believe in the being or not.. Shouldn't a person's character far outwiegh any such trivial matter when measuring a person's worth?

God did show His face to mankind: When He came to Earth as Jesus.:|

God does punish people who are unpleasant, including those who believe. He just does it in a different way.

I think He would stereotype the world as evil, seeing as how the whole world goes against what He has named good and follows evil.

I have already acknowledged your last point.

I am sorry but thats not persuasive at all.. This completely stops the entire point because god showed their face through Jesus (if its true fo course..)in a MUCH MUCH MUCH WORSE time in history.. A time where oppression and violence were common things through out the world..

And I fail to see your broad generilizations.. Have you met the being, clearly you do not know the inner workings of god on how he/she/it punishs people...

He/she/it wouldn't stereotype.. Being the most intelligent being one can only guess that they can imagine and know every single person straight down they wouldn't know what stereotyping is.. Man only stereotype because our knownledge can not remember or understand each indivdual person trhough out time..

Then on top of that why would god even think the majority of the "believers" are worthy because in the end they could have been easilly born into a different religion forced down their throats at a young age..

I am sorry but thats not persuasive at all.. This completely stops the entire point because god showed their face through Jesus (if its true fo course..)in a MUCH MUCH MUCH WORSE time in history.. A time where oppression and violence were common things through out the world..

And I fail to see your broad generilizations.. Have you met the being, clearly you do not know the inner workings of god on how he/she/it punishs people...

He/she/it wouldn't stereotype.. Being the most intelligent being one can only guess that they can imagine and know every single person straight down they wouldn't know what stereotyping is.. Man only stereotype because our knownledge can not remember or understand each indivdual person trhough out time..

Then on top of that why would god even think the majority of the "believers" are worthy because in the end they could have been easilly born into a different religion forced down their throats at a young age..

sSubZerOo

Exactly; He came to Earth at the worst time in history.

My "generalizations" are in the Bible.:|

He would 'stereotype' , because, as you said, He knows and understands every little thing about every little human in history.

I do not know about that last case. You'll have to look that up yourself; I'd like to hope tha they get sent to some sort of purgatory at least, but I don't know.

[QUOTE="mohan88"] Jesus was never God.Silver_Dragon17

Yes He was.:|

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

I am sorry but thats not persuasive at all.. This completely stops the entire point because god showed their face through Jesus (if its true fo course..)in a MUCH MUCH MUCH WORSE time in history.. A time where oppression and violence were common things through out the world..

And I fail to see your broad generilizations.. Have you met the being, clearly you do not know the inner workings of god on how he/she/it punishs people...

He/she/it wouldn't stereotype.. Being the most intelligent being one can only guess that they can imagine and know every single person straight down they wouldn't know what stereotyping is.. Man only stereotype because our knownledge can not remember or understand each indivdual person trhough out time..

Then on top of that why would god even think the majority of the "believers" are worthy because in the end they could have been easilly born into a different religion forced down their throats at a young age..

Silver_Dragon17

Exactly; He came to Earth at the worst time in history.

My "generalizations" are in the Bible.:|

He would 'stereotype' , because, as you said, He knows and understands every little thing about every little human in history.

I do not know about that last case. You'll have to look that up yourself; I'd like to hope tha they get sent to some sort of purgatory at least, but I don't know.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

I am sorry but thats not persuasive at all.. This completely stops the entire point because god showed their face through Jesus (if its true fo course..)in a MUCH MUCH MUCH WORSE time in history.. A time where oppression and violence were common things through out the world..

And I fail to see your broad generilizations.. Have you met the being, clearly you do not know the inner workings of god on how he/she/it punishs people...

He/she/it wouldn't stereotype.. Being the most intelligent being one can only guess that they can imagine and know every single person straight down they wouldn't know what stereotyping is.. Man only stereotype because our knownledge can not remember or understand each indivdual person trhough out time..

Then on top of that why would god even think the majority of the "believers" are worthy because in the end they could have been easilly born into a different religion forced down their throats at a young age..

Silver_Dragon17

Exactly; He came to Earth at the worst time in history.

My "generalizations" are in the Bible.:|

He would 'stereotype' , because, as you said, He knows and understands every little thing about every little human in history.

I do not know about that last case. You'll have to look that up yourself; I'd like to hope tha they get sent to some sort of purgatory at least, but I don't know.

That wasn't the worse time in history BY A LONG shot.. Don't even argue that it was because it SURE wasn't..

You can not use the bible as a solves everything tool, it has been rewritten by man making it a imperfect thing regardless if the original was real and pure.. We can't EVEN understand everything around us yet, let alone the workings of a being we have no real proof exists and can't even see.

Do you realize this includes the majority of most religions.. The majority of religious bases in places such as the US were born with it and had it basically forced down their throats.. They are immensely bias towards it.. Why should god give these people any sort of reward while punishing people that could have far better ehtics and character?.. Don't these people realize that they could have just as easilly been taught Hindu, Islam, etc etc and had been just as bias on this case...

Surely god would realize these people have had these beliefs indoctrined into their very logic mind sets.. I also find it ironic that god isn't some how intelligent to realize certain circumstances that gods rules shouldn't apply.. For instance of the entire world lost electricity you would see how easilly those core rules will dwindle for the survival and protection of peoples loved ones..

Those of you who believe in God, is he avoiding us and do whatever we want to do?mohan88

No. He's there. He's ALWAYS with us, just helping us out in ways we dont understand, but we will be happy.

There was a good question posed in Spy Kids 2:

Do you think God stays in heaven because he, too, is afraid of what he has created?

Well, anything is possibe in the situation. God orginally created us to love one another. But that is not what's happening in the world today. We fight and kill eachother in war, we murder eachother, we abuse eachother, we take advantage, we steal, we lie, we cheat, we do everything against God. This must make feel as least angry or sad. If you saw your creation do such things, would you avoid them?

However, I don't want to believe that if there is a God, that he is avoiding us. A true, loving God would not abandon it's creation. The loving God would be moved with pity, and would take action. And that is what most religions belive he will do in the future.

No, I think the Christian god is in itself self contradictory at it's very root, proven in a relativly simple manner.

1.The Christian god is supposedly all knowing, and all powerful.

2.The Christian god has supposedly given humans free will.

3.Because the Christian god is all knowing, even before he created everything, all events would have been predetermined, if they were not, then the Christian god would not be all knowing.

4.This implies that every event that has ever occurred has been pre-determined, meaning free will does not exist, and every horrible tragity that has ever occurred has been the Christian god's fault (genocide's, wars, ect.), and all peoples fates have been decided for them, choice would be an illusion.

5.Implying that the Christian god is either limited in it's knowledge, or humans do not have free will.

6.Meaning that the Christian god in it's current interpretation either does not exist, or there is an error in the bible.

7.Simply put, this means Christianity in it's current form is false.

News flash. We where created in a chance chemical reaction when the rock we live on was formed hundreds of thousands of years ago. We humans are so full of ourselves to think that we where created by some amazing being, and not a product of an ancient primordial soup.

Religion was ultimately created to control people. If a mass of people can be swayed by the teachings of a scroll of papyrus, do you honestly believe we are truly that great a race? If our DNA could be read like a book, it would probably define arrogance.

News flash. We where created in a chance chemical reaction when the rock we live on was formed hundreds of thousands of years ago. We humans are so full of ourselves to think that we where created by some amazing being, and not a product of an ancient primordial soup.

Religion was ultimately created to control people. If a mass of people can be swayed by the teachings of a scroll of papyrus, do you honestly believe we are truly that great a race? If our DNA could be read like a book, it would probably define arrogance.

risktakerguy

Amen. Quite possibly the most sober observation of human nature that I have read thus far on these forums.

God - all gods - are nothing beyond a myth, to be set along side the abonimable snowman and the Loch Ness monster, because at the end of the day there just isn't enough evidence to support their existance.

But we can't get ahead ourselves either. I find "hard" atheism to be just as bad as theism, in that it does not acknowledge the lack of any certainty in it's denial of "god". I strongly believe in our "primordial soup" origins, but in all honesty it's just not possible for us as mere humans to "know" he/she/it does not exist at this stage.

Just like "god", anything, however outlandish, that we imagine perhaps does exist, if only because we cannot entirely prove that it doesn't. However it's one thing to acknowledge this, and another entirely to utilize the point as justification for irrational beliefs.

Those of you who believe in God, is he avoiding us and do whatever we want to do?mohan88

[QUOTE="mohan88"]Those of you who believe in God, is he avoiding us and do whatever we want to do?Laymsp0t

I don't think he's avoiding us, I just think he's procrastinating having to deal with us. :PPowerhitter0418

Hell, I would too.:lol:

No, I think the Christian god is in itself self contradictory at it's very root, proven in a relativly simple manner.

1.The Christian god is supposedly all knowing, and all powerful.

2.The Christian god has supposedly given humans free will.

3.Because the Christian god is all knowing, even before he created everything, all events would have been predetermined, if they were not, then the Christian god would not be all knowing.

4.This implies that every event that has ever occurred has been pre-determined, meaning free will does not exist, and every horrible tragity that has ever occurred has been the Christian god's fault (genocide's, wars, ect.), and all peoples fates have been decided for them, choice would be an illusion.

5.Implying that the Christian god is either limited in it's knowledge, or humans do not have free will.

6.Meaning that the Christian god in it's current interpretation either does not exist, or there is an error in the bible.

7.Simply put, this means Christianity in it's current form is false.

yoshi-lnex

Or, God can and does see everything that will happen, including this, but leaves the future up to the decisions of us, and simply hopes that we will make the right decisions.

Events are not predetermined. . . . .everything that comes comes from the choices that we are free to make. . .this is free will. In a government, it is illegal to murder, but if somebody who is completely aware of this murders and goes to jail, does that mean he had no free will in the matter?

There was a good question posed in Spy Kids 2:

Do you think God stays in heaven because he, too, is afraid of what he has created?

Well, anything is possibe in the situation. God orginally created us to love one another. But that is not what's happening in the world today. We fight and kill eachother in war, we murder eachother, we abuse eachother, we take advantage, we steal, we lie, we cheat, we do everything against God. This must make feel as least angry or sad. If you saw your creation do such things, would you avoid them?

However, I don't want to believe that if there is a God, that he is avoiding us. A true, loving God would not abandon it's creation. The loving God would be moved with pity, and would take action. And that is what most religions belive he will do in the future.

dog64

I agree. . .except for the pity part. I don't think God pitys us, at least not much.

[QUOTE="dog64"]

There was a good question posed in Spy Kids 2:

Do you think God stays in heaven because he, too, is afraid of what he has created?

Well, anything is possibe in the situation. God orginally created us to love one another. But that is not what's happening in the world today. We fight and kill eachother in war, we murder eachother, we abuse eachother, we take advantage, we steal, we lie, we cheat, we do everything against God. This must make feel as least angry or sad. If you saw your creation do such things, would you avoid them?

However, I don't want to believe that if there is a God, that he is avoiding us. A true, loving God would not abandon it's creation. The loving God would be moved with pity, and would take action. And that is what most religions belive he will do in the future.

Silver_Dragon17

I agree. . .except for the pity part. I don't think God pitys us, at least not much.

Wasn't Jesus moved with pity several times when he done his miracles? Yes, hewas moved with pity when he healed the sick and taught others. Why wouldn't the almighty creator feel the same way?

That wasn't the worse time in history BY A LONG shot.. Don't even argue that it was because it SURE wasn't..

You can not use the bible as a solves everything tool, it has been rewritten by man making it a imperfect thing regardless if the original was real and pure.. We can't EVEN understand everything around us yet, let alone the workings of a being we have no real proof exists and can't even see.

Do you realize this includes the majority of most religions.. The majority of religious bases in places such as the US were born with it and had it basically forced down their throats.. They are immensely bias towards it.. Why should god give these people any sort of reward while punishing people that could have far better ehtics and character?.. Don't these people realize that they could have just as easilly been taught Hindu, Islam, etc etc and had been just as bias on this case...

Surely god would realize these people have had these beliefs indoctrined into their very logic mind sets.. I also find it ironic that god isn't some how intelligent to realize certain circumstances that gods rules shouldn't apply.. For instance of the entire world lost electricity you would see how easilly those core rules will dwindle for the survival and protection of peoples loved ones..

sSubZerOo

That depends on who you ask, I suppose. . .

I don't use the Bible as a solves everything tool, but I believe that, even though it has been edited, it is still very important and accurate. I want to read the texts that have been found in the past years; Maybe they can answer some questions about the Bible.

I don't agree with that, mostly because I was not born in a religious household, was not forced into any religion, yet here I am. And I can point out some people on this very forum who claim to have been born into a religious household, and then left the religion as the grew older. When you get old enough to think for yourself, even the Bible says that you should read up on what you believe in, and not be ignorant about it. So, even if you had your beliefs shoved down your throat, when you left your house the smart thing to do would be to study up on your beliefs, if you have the rescources, otherwise, ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.

How would electricity do anything to the way God teaches? There wasn't any electricity back when the Bible was written, so how does that affect anything?

Or, God can and does see everything that will happen, including this, but leaves the future up to the decisions of us, and simply hopes that we will make the right decisions.

Events are not predetermined. . . . .everything that comes comes from the choices that we are free to make. . .this is free will. In a government, it is illegal to murder, but if somebody who is completely aware of this murders and goes to jail, does that mean he had no free will in the matter?

Silver_Dragon17

Does God know what choice I will make before I make it?

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="dog64"]

There was a good question posed in Spy Kids 2:

Do you think God stays in heaven because he, too, is afraid of what he has created?

Well, anything is possibe in the situation. God orginally created us to love one another. But that is not what's happening in the world today. We fight and kill eachother in war, we murder eachother, we abuse eachother, we take advantage, we steal, we lie, we cheat, we do everything against God. This must make feel as least angry or sad. If you saw your creation do such things, would you avoid them?

However, I don't want to believe that if there is a God, that he is avoiding us. A true, loving God would not abandon it's creation. The loving God would be moved with pity, and would take action. And that is what most religions belive he will do in the future.

dog64

I agree. . .except for the pity part. I don't think God pitys us, at least not much.

Wasn't Jesus moved with pity several times when he done his miracles? Yes, hewas moved with pity when he healed the sick and taught others. Why wouldn't the almighty creator feel the same way?

Because God and Jesus, while the same Entity, are different.

God the Father is just, meaning mercy and pity are not part of His repertoire. He punishes those who do wrong, simple as that.

God the Son (Jesus) would be the part that takes pity. He is the part that forgives, that has compassion, that advocates us to God the Father.

God the Holy Spirit is in charge of moving people toward salvation, neither pitiful or punishing.

That's the way I see it.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

Or, God can and does see everything that will happen, including this, but leaves the future up to the decisions of us, and simply hopes that we will make the right decisions.

Events are not predetermined. . . . .everything that comes comes from the choices that we are free to make. . .this is free will. In a government, it is illegal to murder, but if somebody who is completely aware of this murders and goes to jail, does that mean he had no free will in the matter?

Decessus

Does God know what choice I will make before I make it?

It's hard to tell, but I think that a God who can do anything could block this kind of knowledge from His mind, leaving the choices entirely to us. He knows the results of choices; That is, He knows what will happen if we make the right choice or the wrong choice, but He does not know the choice we make. That is just my take on it, because He already does something like that, when He makes Himself forget our sins.

It's hard to tell, but I think that a God who can do anything could block this kind of knowledge from His mind, leaving the choices entirely to us. He knows the results of choices; That is, He knows what will happen if we make the right choice or the wrong choice, but He does not know the choice we make. That is just my take on it, because He already does something like that, when He makes Himself forget our sins.

Silver_Dragon17

You would agree then that God is not an omniscient being, correct?

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

It's hard to tell, but I think that a God who can do anything could block this kind of knowledge from His mind, leaving the choices entirely to us. He knows the results of choices; That is, He knows what will happen if we make the right choice or the wrong choice, but He does not know the choice we make. That is just my take on it, because He already does something like that, when He makes Himself forget our sins.

Decessus

You would agree then that God is not an omniscient being, correct?

Nope, because, as I said, an omniscient being would be able to do that, and also revert back if He wanted to. So, I think God is still omniscient.

[QUOTE="TongHua"]It's always a bad sign when you enter a religion thread... but still, imagine God's predicament. Imagine that you have a magic button in front of you that could end every war that will ever come to exist, end every tragedy that will ever happen, cure every single disease known (and unknown) to man., make everyone just as rich and just as poor as they needed to be, give justice to every murderer, raper, or criminal before their crimes harm other people, and in general promise eternal bliss for all humanity for ages. What you're saying is that God doesn't want to press this button because if he does people might not believe in him (which makes no sense at all)Silver_Dragon17

Now put yourself in His position again.

You made the world and universe, as well as your most favorite creatures, humans. You give them one simple little rule, and they break it, messing up everything you made. You then give them chance after chance after chance to simply say "I'm sorry" and stop breaking the rules, but they don't. Soon, they start to doubt you exist and mock those who believe you do, and continue breaking your ryules.

Finally, say you planned to do all of the things that you mentioned one day, but people still acted like you did not exist, or were evil, or whatnot. How would you do?

But God being all powerful would just be able to cleanse every human soul of doubt and immorality and make every person aware of his all knowing existance. And it's not one simple rule, it's 10 that cordon off many excesses in life, and it's not saying "i'm sorry" it's saying "i believe that this one person is the son of god and if i don't im screwed, there is no other way around this solution"

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="TongHua"]It's always a bad sign when you enter a religion thread... but still, imagine God's predicament. Imagine that you have a magic button in front of you that could end every war that will ever come to exist, end every tragedy that will ever happen, cure every single disease known (and unknown) to man., make everyone just as rich and just as poor as they needed to be, give justice to every murderer, raper, or criminal before their crimes harm other people, and in general promise eternal bliss for all humanity for ages. What you're saying is that God doesn't want to press this button because if he does people might not believe in him (which makes no sense at all)TongHua

Now put yourself in His position again.

You made the world and universe, as well as your most favorite creatures, humans. You give them one simple little rule, and they break it, messing up everything you made. You then give them chance after chance after chance to simply say "I'm sorry" and stop breaking the rules, but they don't. Soon, they start to doubt you exist and mock those who believe you do, and continue breaking your ryules.

Finally, say you planned to do all of the things that you mentioned one day, but people still acted like you did not exist, or were evil, or whatnot. How would you do?

But God being all powerful would just be able to cleanse every human soul of doubt and immorality and make every person aware of his all knowing existance. And it's not one simple rule, it's 10 that cordon off many excesses in life, and it's not saying "i'm sorry" it's saying "i believe that this one person is the son of god and if i don't im screwed, there is no other way around this solution"

If God were to do that, then He would be a dictator.:|

And tell me, is that so much to ask? And yes, it really is basically an I'm sorry, if it is meaningful.

Nope, because, as I said, an omniscient being would be able to do that, and also revert back if He wanted to. So, I think God is still omniscient.

Silver_Dragon17

[QUOTE="TongHua"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="TongHua"]It's always a bad sign when you enter a religion thread... but still, imagine God's predicament. Imagine that you have a magic button in front of you that could end every war that will ever come to exist, end every tragedy that will ever happen, cure every single disease known (and unknown) to man., make everyone just as rich and just as poor as they needed to be, give justice to every murderer, raper, or criminal before their crimes harm other people, and in general promise eternal bliss for all humanity for ages. What you're saying is that God doesn't want to press this button because if he does people might not believe in him (which makes no sense at all)Silver_Dragon17

Now put yourself in His position again.

You made the world and universe, as well as your most favorite creatures, humans. You give them one simple little rule, and they break it, messing up everything you made. You then give them chance after chance after chance to simply say "I'm sorry" and stop breaking the rules, but they don't. Soon, they start to doubt you exist and mock those who believe you do, and continue breaking your ryules.

Finally, say you planned to do all of the things that you mentioned one day, but people still acted like you did not exist, or were evil, or whatnot. How would you do?

But God being all powerful would just be able to cleanse every human soul of doubt and immorality and make every person aware of his all knowing existance. And it's not one simple rule, it's 10 that cordon off many excesses in life, and it's not saying "i'm sorry" it's saying "i believe that this one person is the son of god and if i don't im screwed, there is no other way around this solution"

If God were to do that, then He would be a dictator.:|

And tell me, is that so much to ask? And yes, it really is basically an I'm sorry, if it is meaningful.

Dictators are wrong, god is never wrong, therefore god would find a way to make every person happy and fullfilled perfectly. Off topic but imagine something else. GOd knows everything, this cannot be argued by his omniscience. When god creates a person, he knows everything he will ever do, also impossible to argue, since he is omniscient. Therefore, god must know who will repent and who will not. therefore, god knows perfectly well and is willing to create a person that will never repent and will be damned to the eternal flames of hell. Therefore god's own morality must be called into question, because as everyone here would agree, 100 years of life and choice is not worth an eternity in the flaming pits of hell being tortured by the most evil creature to ever exist

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

Nope, because, as I said, an omniscient being would be able to do that, and also revert back if He wanted to. So, I think God is still omniscient.

Decessus

I'm not sure I understand. Could you clarify your meaning?

Dictators are wrong, god is never wrong, therefore god would find a way to make every person happy and fullfilled perfectly. Off topic but imagine something else. GOd knows everything, this cannot be argued by his omniscience. When god creates a person, he knows everything he will ever do, also impossible to argue, since he is omniscient. Therefore, god must know who will repent and who will not. therefore, god knows perfectly well and is willing to create a person that will never repent and will be damned to the eternal flames of hell. Therefore god's own morality must be called into question, because as everyone here would agree, 100 years of life and choice is not worth an eternity in the flaming pits of hell being tortured by the most evil creature to ever existTongHua

That is exactly why God wouldn't be a dictator. If He forced everybody to believe in Him, then He would be a Hitler.

Let me try something. A guy driving down the road comes to a fork. To the left is a mugger, to the right is a cute girl. God knows what will happen either way, but He keeps from Himself which choice the guy will make. This is all theoretical, however.

I'm not sure I understand. Could you clarify your meaning?

Silver_Dragon17

Actually, it doesn't matter. While I was typing my response to your question, I thought of another direction I would like to take instead. Perhaps I'll come back to my previous thought later.

If God blocked his omniscient ability, then it stands to reason that at some point in time, his omniscient ability was not blocked. Therefore, at some point in time he still knew what choice any given human being was going to make. If God predetermined everything in advance, and then "forgot" that he made it that way, that does not change the fact that everything is still predetermined and human beings do not have free will.

If human beings do have free will, then humans are able to make decisions that are not known to God until such decision has been made. This contridicts the notion that God is omniscient.

So God is either omniscient and humans do not have free will, or God is not omniscient and humans do have free will.

Let me try something. A guy driving down the road comes to a fork. To the left is a mugger, to the right is a cute girl. God knows what will happen either way, but He keeps from Himself which choice the guy will make. This is all theoretical, however.

Silver_Dragon17

If he keeps it from himself which path the guy will choose, then the path the guy is going to choose has already been determined. Afterall, if it wasn't determined, there would be nothing that God needed to keep from himself.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

I'm not sure I understand. Could you clarify your meaning?

Decessus

Actually, it doesn't matter. While I was typing my response to your question, I thought of another direction I would like to take instead. Perhaps I'll come back to my previous thought later.

If God blocked his omniscient ability, then it stands to reason that at some point in time, his omniscient ability was not blocked. Therefore, at some point in time he still knew what choice any given human being was going to make. If God predetermined everything in advance, and then "forgot" that he made it that way, that does not change the fact that everything is still predetermined and human beings do not have free will.

If human beings do have free will, then humans are able to make decisions that are not known to God until such decision has been made. This contridicts the notion that God is omniscient.

So God is either omniscient and humans do not have free will, or God is not omniscient and humans do have free will.

Interesting. What if God does not predetermine everything a person does? What if He leaves that to randomness of people's individual choices? But then He would, at some point, already know what the choices were and what would happen. This means that God probably leaves people to their own choices, and the consequences, whether good or bad, God would also leave to them, because God would not have determined the choices in the first place.

Interesting. What if God does not predetermine everything a person does? What if He leaves that to randomness of people's individual choices? But then He would, at some point, already know what the choices were and what would happen. This means that God probably leaves people to their own choices, and the consequences, whether good or bad, God would also leave to them, because God would not have determined the choices in the first place.

Silver_Dragon17

Is something good because God commands it, or does God command something because it is good?

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

Interesting. What if God does not predetermine everything a person does? What if He leaves that to randomness of people's individual choices? But then He would, at some point, already know what the choices were and what would happen. This means that God probably leaves people to their own choices, and the consequences, whether good or bad, God would also leave to them, because God would not have determined the choices in the first place.

Decessus

Is something good because God commands it, or does God command something because it is good?

I don't know.:P

I don't know.:P

Silver_Dragon17

It's an important question to think about, because it address whether or not God's existence is important to our notion of morality.

If something is good because God commands it, then morality is arbitrary. However, if God commands something because it is good, then it is possible to discern what is right and wrong without God's intervention.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

I don't know.:P

Decessus

It's an important question to think about, because it address whether or not God's existence is important to our notion of morality.

If something is good because God commands it, then morality is arbitrary. However, God commands something because it is good, then it is possible to discern what is right and wrong without God's intervention.

I am going to have to think about that. *picks up C.S. Lewis books*

Everything in life is pre-determined.

It may seem a bold statement but it is simple to prove. First you must accept that if something can be perfectly predicted then it is guaranteed to happen. If you know absolutely every possible factor of a certain event, lets say for example the toss of a coin. If you know everything about the situation the coin is being tossed in down to what the person next to the coin tosser had for breakfast. You should be able to put it all together and make a perfectly accurate prediction as to whether the coin will be heads or tails. Once you know exactly how the coin will land its fate has been determined and it cannot possibly land any other way. If you then think of life as one giant coin toss with even more factors and possible outcomes the same logic still applies. Even humans free will and thoughts are determined by their environment and genetics. By knowing and being able to perfectly piece together all the information in the universe any event can be predicted. Of course to

a) be able to gather all the required information in the universe, and

b) piece the information together perfectly to see the end result,

you would need to be infinitely intelligent and dare I say omnipotent. Hmm who do we know who fits these requirement. Oh its GOD.

If god is perfectly intelligent he can perfectly predict what people will do from the moment he creates them. Well here there lies a little contradiction. If life is designed as a test it is pointless because

a) God already knows what you will do and if you will go to heaven or not

b) God is perfect so he shouldn't need to mold people into perfect beings by putting them through trails in their lives because he should be able to make them perfect to begin with.

This logic makes our entire existence on earth meaningless. Either that or your omnipotent God is nothing more than a child with a sandbox that makes us like imperfect sandcastles merely because he wants to see the castles he constructed poorly fall in the wind while he has the sick satisfaction of toying further with the ones that survive.

If God does exist he may be omnipotent but he is far from perfect.

Anyone else?mohan88

[QUOTE="mohan88"]Anyone else?mig_killer2

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="mohan88"]Anyone else?mohan88

[QUOTE="mohan88"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="mohan88"]Anyone else?mig_killer2

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"]

[QUOTE="mohan88"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="mohan88"]Anyone else?mohan88

isn't it ironic that im helping this thread by posting in it?

dont post in this thread!!!!!!!

[QUOTE="mohan88"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"]

[QUOTE="mohan88"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="mohan88"]Anyone else?mig_killer2

isn't it ironic that im helping this thread by posting in it?

dont post in this thread!!!!!!!

[QUOTE="mohan88"] Jesus was never God.Silver_Dragon17

Yes He was.:|

wow, i thought he was god's son.