It is Merry Christmas! (not happy holidays)

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SpaceMoose

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#101 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts
[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="SpaceMoose"]

I'm going to boycott all of the retailers saying, "Merry Christmas," just to spite people who keep trying to make a big deal out of crap that is rather inconsequential.

Don't these stupid Christian groups have anything better to do, like help the poor or something? It's like they only exist to complain about stupid crap and pretend to be all disenfranchised.

Ok so let me get this straight you are going to say that these christian groups are stupid for complaining that the phrase merry christmas is beginning forbidded in stores schools or what may have you, but the people that were complaing that the phrase merry christmas offends them aren't stupid? Even though they have complained so much that at a place of business you can't have a christmas tree because that will offend someone or kids can't go to school wearing the color green and red because it would offend someone? But they aren't stupid or don't have something else better to do with their time? Its so easy bash christians and what not just for the hell of it, but everyone else forgets why this is even where it is because other religous groups complained about christmas in the first place. But thats ok. :roll:

Nobody made a thread complaining about people saying, "Merry Christmas." I'm not going to sit here and argue about every little stupid anecdote you can find or create in your imagination, as those people are not present in the forums.
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Dr_Manfattan

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#102 Dr_Manfattan
Member since 2009 • 1363 Posts

[QUOTE="Dr_Manfattan"]

[QUOTE="FragStains"]So you want to be able to celebrate the holiday, you choose to celebrate, the way you want to...and then you proceed to tell Christians how to celebrate their holiday?xscrapzx

i meant they should celebrate it religiously if they want to, but i dont want them trying to make it a religious holiday for everyone else who isnt religious.

They don't push people to see it as a holiday, The way I see it is people that aren't chrisitian or catholic are making it seem like it is a forced religion holiday forced on to them. They are the ones that are complaing about santa clause or the christmas tree. I mean honestly what the hell does Santa have to do with religion, what does the color green or red have do with religion. Its a joke, people are sick in the head thats the problem.

which is why i believe my idea would suit the world just fine, everyone accepts that people have diferent holidays and noone does anything to force there religious or non- religious holiday onto other people, and seeing as christmas has been celebrated in the UK and America for years shops should always say merry christmas, but still be respectful of other peoples holidays.

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BumFluff122

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#103 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

I think they should just tear down all the 'Merry Christmas' signs and put up 'Happy Hannakuh" signs. Anyone else agree with me? Anyone disagree with me?

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xscrapzx

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#104 xscrapzx
Member since 2007 • 6636 Posts
[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="SpaceMoose"]

I'm going to boycott all of the retailers saying, "Merry Christmas," just to spite people who keep trying to make a big deal out of crap that is rather inconsequential.

Don't these stupid Christian groups have anything better to do, like help the poor or something? It's like they only exist to complain about stupid crap and pretend to be all disenfranchised.

Ok so let me get this straight you are going to say that these christian groups are stupid for complaining that the phrase merry christmas is beginning forbidded in stores schools or what may have you, but the people that were complaing that the phrase merry christmas offends them aren't stupid? Even though they have complained so much that at a place of business you can't have a christmas tree because that will offend someone or kids can't go to school wearing the color green and red because it would offend someone? But they aren't stupid or don't have something else better to do with their time? Its so easy bash christians and what not just for the hell of it, but everyone else forgets why this is even where it is because other religous groups complained about christmas in the first place. But thats ok. :roll:

Nobody made a thread complaining about people saying, "Merry Christmas." I'm not going to sit here and argue about every little stupid anecdote you can find or create in your imagination, as those people are not present in the forums.

No you can't sit here and make double standards because it helps your argument. I didn't create anything in my imagination, its facts, the bottom line is that people all of a sudden in the past 5-6 years have made a stink about the phrase Merry Christmas and other Christmas related things. They got their way because this country is got their head so far up its you know what that they feel they need to please everyone. You stated you are tired of christians complaining about a certain thing, when a different group complained against the Christmas related items if you will, yet you have no gripes about that. To me you are just stating your agrument not because they are complaing because you dislike a certain group. Thats what I get from it.
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xscrapzx

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#105 xscrapzx
Member since 2007 • 6636 Posts

I think they should just tear down all the 'Merry Christmas' signs and put up 'Happy Hannakuh" signs. Anyone else agree with me? Anyone disagree with me?

BumFluff122
In my opinion both should be there. Not take one away and replace it or take one away completely.
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BumFluff122

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#106 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

I think they should just tear down all the 'Merry Christmas' signs and put up 'Happy Hannakuh" signs. Anyone else agree with me? Anyone disagree with me?

xscrapzx

In my opinion both should be there. Not take one away and replace it or take one away completely.

Personally I don't care which is there. I'm just trying to make a point. IF the norm was to say Happy HAnnakuh and not Merry Christmas Christians would be up-in-arms about it. Just think if the roles were reversed. What do you think would happen?

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rjxtian

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#107 rjxtian
Member since 2005 • 2638 Posts

I use either, depending on who am I greeting. I had thought that Happy Holidays was catching on; more PC. It does seem like Merry Christmas, is still much more popular with all groups of people.

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xscrapzx

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#108 xscrapzx
Member since 2007 • 6636 Posts
[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

I think they should just tear down all the 'Merry Christmas' signs and put up 'Happy Hannakuh" signs. Anyone else agree with me? Anyone disagree with me?

In my opinion both should be there. Not take one away and replace it or take one away completely.

Personally I don't care which is there. I'm just trying to make a point. IF the norm was to say Happy HAnnakuh and not Merry Christmas Christians would be up-in-arms about it. Just think if the roles were reversed. What do you think would happen?

Well in my opinion I don't see Christmas as just a religion holiday or something that you just celebrate with your family, but it is also a United States tradition. It has been here for a very long time and has been celebrated as such. If it so happened to be Hannakuh then thats how I would see it.
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BumFluff122

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#109 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] In my opinion both should be there. Not take one away and replace it or take one away completely.xscrapzx

Personally I don't care which is there. I'm just trying to make a point. IF the norm was to say Happy HAnnakuh and not Merry Christmas Christians would be up-in-arms about it. Just think if the roles were reversed. What do you think would happen?

Well in my opinion I don't see Christmas as just a religion holiday or something that you just celebrate with your family, but it is also a United States tradition. It has been here for a very long time and has been celebrated as such. If it so happened to be Hannakuh then thats how I would see it.

That's how you see it. There have already been posts in this thread by Christians complaining that they are taking the Christ out of the holidays. That is exactly how people of other religious groups feel about their religions. They are being bombarded with a type of culture and with images that really has nothing to do with them.

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SpaceMoose

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#110 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts

No you can't sit here and make double standards because it helps your argument. I didn't create anything in my imagination, its facts, the bottom line is that people all of a sudden in the past 5-6 years have made a stink about the phrase Merry Christmas and other Christmas related things. They got their way because this country is got their head so far up its you know what that they feel they need to please everyone. You stated you are tired of christians complaining about a certain thing, when a different group complained against the Christmas related items if you will, yet you have no gripes about that. To me you are just stating your agrument not because they are complaing because you dislike a certain group. Thats what I get from it.xscrapzx
The thread is someone complaining about the phrase "Happy Holidays." I don't care which way the complaint is. It's stupid. In fact, I couldn't care less if people didn't say anything to me at all when I walk into a store. It's effing pointless. It doesn't make a damn difference one way or the other. Instead of worrying about serious issues, people want to make much ado about whether stores are "too religious" or "not religious enough." If someone made a thread complaining about the phrase, "Merry Christmas" (in the context of it carrying too much of a religious connotation) I'd say that's also stupid, but nobody did. Even more than that though, it's goddamn absurd for the majority group to be complaining and boo-hooing not because they are actively being discriminated against, but because they don't feel like they have enough of a monopoly on cultural norms. I'm willing to bet that if you go to Israel you don't get many Jewish groups making a fuss that some store didn't greet them with, "Happy Hanukkah." It's just media-manufactured drama over trivialities. If it wasn't for certain media outlets trying to make a story out of it, nobody would even give a crap.

On anothe rnote, it speaks to just how much Christmas has become the "buying **** " holiday when supposedly religious people need ****ing Walmart to supply them with validation of their beliefs.

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neo_starwind

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#111 neo_starwind
Member since 2008 • 420 Posts

I'm athiest/agnostic (you can debate it yourselves), but even I think it;s ridiculous when stores/public outlets are forced, more or elss, to call it holidays, just so they don't offend non-christians. This is happening in Australia too. FACE IT. Christians make up a large part of the population. If you're offended by living in a Christian country, then move somewhere else.

DigitalExile

I completely agree. As an atheist also, I guess I'm part of the problem because I guess they don't want to offend me, but truth is I'd much rather hear Merry Christmas then Happy Holidays. "Happy Holidays" is just too forced. Every time I hear it, I know why it's said: to avoid lawsuits.


I also agree with you on leaving the country if you don't like the way things are run. I hate it when immigrants get over here in the US and automatically their human rights allow them to start changing things to how they see fit. It shouldn't be like that. Also, even though I don't really like the fact that the US mainly operates on who-has-what religious values, I would rather the country be run by Christians over any other religion any day of the week.

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zakkro

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#112 zakkro
Member since 2004 • 48823 Posts
It's neither, really. It's "Happy Buy-Everything-You-Can-Or-Else-You-Don't-Actually-Love-The-People-Close-To-You Day."
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Engrish_Major

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#113 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts

Heck, this reminds me of about 200 A.D. in Rome, when the local olive markets and chariot stores started to replace "Merry Saturnalia" with "Happy Holidays" in order to appease the growing Visigoth population in the city. Man, can we ever learn a lesson from them. If only they had not ruined the sanctity of the holiday by watering down Saturnalia, the Roman empire might still be around today.

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metallica_fan42

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#114 metallica_fan42
Member since 2006 • 21143 Posts
Honestly, it isn't a big deal. Personally, it's another thing that hardcore religious folks can complain about.
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#116 Renegade_Fury
Member since 2003 • 21757 Posts

[QUOTE="DigitalExile"]

I'm athiest/agnostic (you can debate it yourselves), but even I think it;s ridiculous when stores/public outlets are forced, more or elss, to call it holidays, just so they don't offend non-christians. This is happening in Australia too. FACE IT. Christians make up a large part of the population. If you're offended by living in a Christian country, then move somewhere else.

neo_starwind

I completely agree. As an atheist also, I guess I'm part of the problem because I guess they don't want to offend me, but truth is I'd much rather hear Merry Christmas then Happy Holidays. "Happy Holidays" is just too forced. Every time I hear it, I know why it's said: to avoid lawsuits.


I also agree with you on leaving the country if you don't like the way things are run. I hate it when immigrants get over here in the US and automatically their human rights allow them to start changing things to how they see fit. It shouldn't be like that. Also, even though I don't really like the fact that the US mainly operates on who-has-what religious values, I would rather the country be run by Christians over any other religion any day of the week.

Wow, and exactly what does that have to do with anything related to this thread? Actually, WTF does religion have to do with a person's capability of governing? :|

As a non christian, I'm just going to throw out my 2 cents. Now whether you give a **** or not I don't care, but let me begin by saying, I **** hate this holiday. Christmas has been shoved down my throat as far back as I can remember. All you ever hear as a kid is "What are you getting for Christmas?" "Did you buy your tree yet?" "We're making a Christmas project in c-lass today" "We're going to sing Christmas carols" and so on. That, in combination with the nonstop Christmas specials that air for weeks on straight, DOES get on my nerves. I really don't understand why Christians are complaining when you already have a monopoly on everything. Happy Holidays is just a phrase, and frankly, I find it less annoying to hear. So many act like a simple change of words in the commercial industry is killing your holiday. Get real please. If you want to hear Merry Christmas so badly, just play a recording nonstop to yourself if it makes you feel better.

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BumFluff122

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#117 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

[QUOTE="DigitalExile"]

I'm athiest/agnostic (you can debate it yourselves), but even I think it;s ridiculous when stores/public outlets are forced, more or elss, to call it holidays, just so they don't offend non-christians. This is happening in Australia too. FACE IT. Christians make up a large part of the population. If you're offended by living in a Christian country, then move somewhere else.

neo_starwind

I completely agree. As an atheist also, I guess I'm part of the problem because I guess they don't want to offend me, but truth is I'd much rather hear Merry Christmas then Happy Holidays. "Happy Holidays" is just too forced. Every time I hear it, I know why it's said: to avoid lawsuits.


I also agree with you on leaving the country if you don't like the way things are run. I hate it when immigrants get over here in the US and automatically their human rights allow them to start changing things to how they see fit. It shouldn't be like that. Also, even though I don't really like the fact that the US mainly operates on who-has-what religious values, I would rather the country be run by Christians over any other religion any day of the week.

I don't think it's the atheists that are that problem. Though they are often the most outspoken. IT's the amount of other religions that celebrate holidays around this time. And yet they are being bombarded with things like nativity scenes or songs that speaks about virgins and holy children, etc....

IF a company carries things that have to do with those holidays rather than Christmas they would be missing out on those sales they'd get from those followers of other religions. All this amounts to is a bunch of religious folks that belong to one particular religion throwing a temper tantrum that othewr religions are beign seen as their equal.

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tocklestein2005

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#118 tocklestein2005
Member since 2008 • 5532 Posts

I always just respond with "Have a Kwazy Kwaanza".

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#119 neo_starwind
Member since 2008 • 420 Posts

[QUOTE="neo_starwind"]

[QUOTE="DigitalExile"]

I'm athiest/agnostic (you can debate it yourselves), but even I think it;s ridiculous when stores/public outlets are forced, more or elss, to call it holidays, just so they don't offend non-christians. This is happening in Australia too. FACE IT. Christians make up a large part of the population. If you're offended by living in a Christian country, then move somewhere else.

BumFluff122

I completely agree. As an atheist also, I guess I'm part of the problem because I guess they don't want to offend me, but truth is I'd much rather hear Merry Christmas then Happy Holidays. "Happy Holidays" is just too forced. Every time I hear it, I know why it's said: to avoid lawsuits.


I also agree with you on leaving the country if you don't like the way things are run. I hate it when immigrants get over here in the US and automatically their human rights allow them to start changing things to how they see fit. It shouldn't be like that. Also, even though I don't really like the fact that the US mainly operates on who-has-what religious values, I would rather the country be run by Christians over any other religion any day of the week.

I don't think it's the atheists that are that problem. Though they are often the most outspoken. IT's the amount of other religions that celebrate holidays around this time. And yet they are being bombarded with things like nativity scenes or songs that speaks about virgins and holy children, etc....

IF a company carries things that have to do with those holidays rather than Christmas they would be missing out on those sales they'd get from those followers of other religions. All this amounts to is a bunch of religious folks that belong to one particular religion throwing a temper tantrum that othewr religions are beign seen as their equal.

Yes...I know. What I meant was that I could be considered a part of the reason why "Happy Holidays" came about.

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Large_Soda

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#120 Large_Soda
Member since 2003 • 8658 Posts
We should take this a step further and censor anything Christmas. When Jimmy Stewart is running through the streets in "It's A Wonderful Life", they should overdub his vocal track with "Happy Holidays!", heck take it even further, at the end of the movie it could be "Daddy? Teacher says every time a bell rings a HUMAN gets its wings". All forms of everything should be banned in fear someone, somewhere might get offended.
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Engrish_Major

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#121 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts

Yes...I know. What I meant was that I could be considered a part of the reason why "Happy Holidays" came about.

neo_starwind
...or it could be from the Irving Berlin song released in 1942.
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Teenaged

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#122 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

We should take this a step further and censor anything Christmas. When Jimmy Stewart is running through the streets in "It's A Wonderful Life", they should overdub his vocal track with "Happy Holidays!", heck take it even further, at the end of the movie it could be "Daddy? Teacher says every time a bell rings a HUMAN gets its wings". All forms of everything should be banned in fear someone, somewhere might get offended.Large_Soda
Its not censoring... >_____>

No one imposed this change onto stores.

They just chose to go that way, probably to attract more people by having a message that is suitable for everyone: Christians, people of other religions, atheists.

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SpaceMoose

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#123 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts
[QUOTE="Large_Soda"]We should take this a step further and censor anything Christmas. When Jimmy Stewart is running through the streets in "It's A Wonderful Life", they should overdub his vocal track with "Happy Holidays!", heck take it even further, at the end of the movie it could be "Daddy? Teacher says every time a bell rings a HUMAN gets its wings". All forms of everything should be banned in fear someone, somewhere might get offended.

Oh yeah, American television today is sooo much more censored today than it was decades ago. :lol:
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metroidfood

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#124 metroidfood
Member since 2007 • 11175 Posts

There's no war on Christmas, trust me. Political correctness has retailers being prude, but they only do that because they don't want to risk offending people. They are well aware of what holiday makes them the most money this time of year.

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yabbicoke

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#125 yabbicoke
Member since 2007 • 4069 Posts

Who cares, why can't people just say whatever they want?

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Noskillkill

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#126 Noskillkill
Member since 2009 • 1116 Posts

I dont like x-mas or happy holidays. its like non-Christians decided they like the fun part of our religion, so they take it and mold to take out the Christian parts. Say Christmas if you celebrate Christmas. now if you dont, then thats fine to say happy holidays, i guess. and x-mas is just openly slicing Jesus out of the holiday.

its a religous holiday, treat it as such.

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Setsa

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#127 Setsa
Member since 2005 • 8431 Posts
I really don't get why people want to have it "officially" changed so badly. The event has been called Christmas for quite a while now, and it's senseless to get so heated over the whole in an attempt to have it officially changed. Just call it whatever you want it to be called.
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BumFluff122

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#128 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

I really don't get why people want to have it "officially" changed so badly. The event has been called Christmas for quite a while now, and it's senseless to get so heated over the whole in an attempt to have it officially changed. Just call it whatever you want it to be called.Setsa
No one wants to have the name of Christmas officially changed. Where in the world did you hear that? What store owners want is to be able to sell more murchandise to more people and make more profit. Why do these religiosu fanatics want to tell store owners how to run their store?

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Engrish_Major

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#129 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts
I really don't get why people want to have it "officially" changed so badly. The event has been called Christmas for quite a while now, and it's senseless to get so heated over the whole in an attempt to have it officially changed. Just call it whatever you want it to be called.Setsa
Yeah, changing traditions is a terrible idea! For traditions sake, I still call it Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, which it was for many years, before the Christians came along and ruined it for all of us Pagans.
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Aquat1cF1sh

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#130 Aquat1cF1sh
Member since 2006 • 11096 Posts
As an atheist, I've gotta say... ...it's Christmas. :|
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Engrish_Major

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#131 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts
As an atheist, I've gotta say... ...it's Christmas. :|Aquat1cF1sh
In October and November?
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missjenny69

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#132 missjenny69
Member since 2009 • 36 Posts
I hate both. Both are just to make money !
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#134 Never3ndingLife
Member since 2009 • 1114 Posts
I dont know but i love christmas... amazing family bond and holiday spirit
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SpaceMoose

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#135 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts
[QUOTE="Setsa"]I really don't get why people want to have it "officially" changed so badly. The event has been called Christmas for quite a while now, and it's senseless to get so heated over the whole in an attempt to have it officially changed. Just call it whatever you want it to be called.Engrish_Major
Yeah, changing traditions is a terrible idea! For traditions sake, I still call it Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, which it was for many years, before the Christians came along and ruined it for all of us Pagans.

You should probably boycott every store that doesn't greet you with, "Cheery Dies Natalis Solis Invicti".
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BumFluff122

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#136 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

it's like we're arguing over completely different things in this thread...

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Engrish_Major

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#137 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts
You should probably boycott every store that doesn't greet you with, "Cheery Dies Natalis Solis Invicti".SpaceMoose
Oh, trust me... I do. It's difficult too. I have to travel 40 miles just to get a bottle of olive oil and food for my mule. And don't get me started on finding a good toga around here.
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#138 Tjeremiah1988
Member since 2003 • 16665 Posts
it is getting a bit ridiuclous. So now, its offensive to say Christmas :| ? Are they cereal? And then its the media. That GAP commercial singing all the holidays makes me sick, trying to make it look cool. STOP commercializing Christmas..
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SpaceMoose

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#139 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts
[QUOTE="Aquat1cF1sh"]As an atheist, I've gotta say... ...it's Christmas. :|Engrish_Major
In October and November?

Yeah, didn't you get the memo? One fourth of the year is Christmas now.
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Engrish_Major

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#140 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts
it is getting a bit ridiuclous. So now, its offensive to say Christmas :| ? Are they cereal? And then its the media. That GAP commercial singing all the holidays makes me sick, trying to make it look cool. STOP commercializing Christmas.. Tjeremiah1988
Isn't it considered "commercializing Christmas" when fringe groups force companys to say "Christmas" instead of "Holiday" in their ads?
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Setsa

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#141 Setsa
Member since 2005 • 8431 Posts

[QUOTE="Setsa"]I really don't get why people want to have it "officially" changed so badly. The event has been called Christmas for quite a while now, and it's senseless to get so heated over the whole in an attempt to have it officially changed. Just call it whatever you want it to be called.BumFluff122

No one wants to have the name of Christmas officially changed. Where in the world did you hear that? What store owners want is to be able to sell more murchandise to more people and make more profit. Why do these religiosu fanatics want to tell store owners how to run their store?

I dislike the idea of people getting pissy over it being called one thing or the other. I call it Christmas because that's what I've been exposed to, but I have no problem with people saying "happy holidays". It's idiotic to try to tell others it has to be called one or the other when both can work perfectly fine together without the whole a/theist clash.
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BumFluff122

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#142 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="Setsa"]I really don't get why people want to have it "officially" changed so badly. The event has been called Christmas for quite a while now, and it's senseless to get so heated over the whole in an attempt to have it officially changed. Just call it whatever you want it to be called.Setsa

No one wants to have the name of Christmas officially changed. Where in the world did you hear that? What store owners want is to be able to sell more murchandise to more people and make more profit. Why do these religiosu fanatics want to tell store owners how to run their store?

I dislike the idea of people getting pissy over it being called one thing or the other. I call it Christmas because that's what I've been exposed to, but I have no problem with people saying "happy holidays". It's idiotic to try to tell others it has to be called one or the other when both can work perfectly fine together without the whole a/theist clash.

This doesn't have anything to do with atheists though. What it has to do with is other theists and their beliefs and other theists with differeing beliefs being flooded with images and culture that they don't wan to be flooded with. The companies in question are trying to make money. These religious fanatics who are up in arms that they won't be using the word christmas are doing it specifically for religious purposes.

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Pixel-Pirate

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#143 Pixel-Pirate
Member since 2009 • 10771 Posts

I dont like x-mas or happy holidays. its like non-Christians decided they like the fun part of our religion, so they take it and mold to take out the Christian parts. Say Christmas if you celebrate Christmas. now if you dont, then thats fine to say happy holidays, i guess. and x-mas is just openly slicing Jesus out of the holiday.

its a religous holiday, treat it as such.

Noskillkill

For you.

For me it is a commercial holiday and I treat it as such.

Also anyone who thinks there is an actual war on christmas is delusional. Do you have any idea how much stores make at christmas? I don't think they want to destroy it.

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CJL13

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#144 CJL13
Member since 2005 • 19137 Posts

Christians like to say "Merry Christmas". Non-Christians like to say "Happy holidays". I like to say "Shut the **** up and open your present I paid half my salary for".

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wince55

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#145 wince55
Member since 2009 • 25 Posts
I really don't care which one people actually say but for me I grew up saying Merry Christmas and I will continue to say Merry Christmas. As long as everyone gives me the same freedom that I give others to say what they want, then I'm all good.
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xscrapzx

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#146 xscrapzx
Member since 2007 • 6636 Posts

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] No you can't sit here and make double standards because it helps your argument. I didn't create anything in my imagination, its facts, the bottom line is that people all of a sudden in the past 5-6 years have made a stink about the phrase Merry Christmas and other Christmas related things. They got their way because this country is got their head so far up its you know what that they feel they need to please everyone. You stated you are tired of christians complaining about a certain thing, when a different group complained against the Christmas related items if you will, yet you have no gripes about that. To me you are just stating your agrument not because they are complaing because you dislike a certain group. Thats what I get from it.SpaceMoose

The thread is someone complaining about the phrase "Happy Holidays." I don't care which way the complaint is. It's stupid. In fact, I couldn't care less if people didn't say anything to me at all when I walk into a store. It's effing pointless. It doesn't make a damn difference one way or the other. Instead of worrying about serious issues, people want to make much ado about whether stores are "too religious" or "not religious enough." If someone made a thread complaining about the phrase, "Merry Christmas" (in the context of it carrying too much of a religious connotation) I'd say that's also stupid, but nobody did. Even more than that though, it's goddamn absurd for the majority group to be complaining and boo-hooing not because they are actively being discriminated against, but because they don't feel like they have enough of a monopoly on cultural norms. I'm willing to bet that if you go to Israel you don't get many Jewish groups making a fuss that some store didn't greet them with, "Happy Hanukkah." It's just media-manufactured drama over trivialities. If it wasn't for certain media outlets trying to make a story out of it, nobody would even give a crap.

On anothe rnote, it speaks to just how much Christmas has become the "buying **** " holiday when supposedly religious people need ****ing Walmart to supply them with validation of their beliefs.

My whole point in debating with you was not that you cared or not, because personally I don't either. My whole point was you made a comment stating that don't these dumb christian groups have better things to do with their time. I kind of took that to offense not that fact that you said they were dumb, but the fact that we are even discussing this at all is because you had the opposite side of the spectrum complaing as much as those christian groups are now and they got their way. Thats all, personally I believe in what I believe in and thats it. You can say whatever you wish to me whether it be merry christmas or happy hannakuh. I will respectfully say it back. In all honesty I got off the subject so really it doesn't matter anyways.

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thunderf00t

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#147 thunderf00t
Member since 2009 • 948 Posts
"For millions of Americans the giving and receiving of gifts is in honor of the One who gave Himself."Jemdude
For millions others, it is not. I for one, fully support every store who says Happy Holidays, and will give them extra support over those who use the word Christmas. Christians have got to stop trying to force their beliefs on other people. It's not right. This is not a Christian nation.
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xscrapzx

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#148 xscrapzx
Member since 2007 • 6636 Posts
[QUOTE="Jemdude"]"For millions of Americans the giving and receiving of gifts is in honor of the One who gave Himself."thunderf00t
For millions others, it is not. I for one, fully support every store who says Happy Holidays, and will give them extra support over those who use the word Christmas. Christians have got to stop trying to force their beliefs on other people. It's not right. This is not a Christian nation.

Really? Are you serious? It is federal celebrated holiday. Meaning the United States of America views it as such. No one is forcing anything on anyone, it is a day that this country celebrates every year and has for a very very long time. Its more of a tradition than a religion day if anything. So really you have no idea what you are talking about.
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domatron23

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#149 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts
It's called Christmas and if anyone gets upset about that too bloody bad for them. Christmas is a holiday and a happy time though so there's no harm in saying happy holidays but to refuse to acknowledge it as Christmas just because you don't believe in Christ is silly.
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thunderf00t

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#150 thunderf00t
Member since 2009 • 948 Posts

"No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ's birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th? The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas.

In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast. In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born.

The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born. In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year. Huge Yule logs were burned in honor of the sun. The word Yule itself means "wheel," the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun.

Mistletoe was considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Hollyberries were thought to be a food of the gods. The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees. In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ's birth would be celebrated on December 25.

There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier, knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them. Christmas (Christ-Mass) as we know it today, most historians agree, began in Germany, though Catholics and Lutherans still disagree about which church celebrated it first. The earliest record of an evergreen being decorated in a Christian celebration was in 1521 in the Alsace region of Germany. A prominent Lutheran minister of the day cried blasphemy: "Better that they should look to the true tree of life, Christ." The controversy continues even today in some fundamentalist sects."

Link.

Calling it Happy Holidays is not "taking the Christ out of Christmas", because the Christ never had any place in it at all.