It is wrong that religion preys on children at an early age.

Oh..it has a lot to do with what you said. Again...that is not how my church teaches...and point of fact most children just sit in church with their parents and get the basic facts. They ARE NOT inundated with religion 24/7. You are generalizing. I made my OWN DECISION as did my siblings...and yes we are aware of what our parents believed. But we still made an adult decision.

Once again....a topic in OT filled with those that do not understand the decision making but have to voice their opinion.:roll:

LJS9502_basic

I don't care what your church does. Not everyone has the same story as you do. Second, if you think I'm illogical don't bother replying to me. It's counter-productive.

Like a bunch of bored 16 year olds on a message board have the authority on religious studies?

-Austin-

I'm 21 with an Associates Degree in religious studies. ;)

Like a bunch of bored 16 year olds on a message board have the authority on religious studies?

-Austin-

Damn, that's me... :?

[QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

The TC is just mad because people don't indoctrinate children the way he wants them to. Everybody "indoctrinates" their children in some form or another, whether it's in the area of politics or law or morals or religion. Theokhoth

I doubt it. Child indoctrination is wrong. No matter how they are indoctrinated.

Then teaching your children not to steal, murder, or hit the dog is wrong, since that's child indoctrination. And if you punish them, or threaten to punish them, you're abusing them.

We talking about religious indoctrination and you know that. Your just being difficult.

Yes, you're implementing a double standard. It's not okay to teach children religion, but you can teach them any other rules.:roll:

Teaching them "rules" and religion are very different. Religion is not a rule.

Religion has to be a personal decision, you said that yourself when we were arguing over the sociological factors behind religion. When you just tell your child what he or she has to believe your aren't giving them that opportunity.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"]

Like a bunch of bored 16 year olds on a message board have the authority on religious studies?

Funky_Llama

Damn, that's me... :?

Thats 90% of this board ;)

Well, it's good for the children to learn good values.

But seriously, I don't want to get confirmed, but in the Catholic church you have to if you want to be married BY the church. What do I do OT?

Teaching them "rules" and religion are very different. Religion is not a rule.

Religion has to be a personal decision, you said that yourself when we were arguing over the sociological factors behind religion. When you just tell your child what he or she has to believe your aren't giving them that opportunity.

-Austin-

Teaching children religion does not hamper their choice to follow that religion their whole lives, no matter how many times someone goes "don't question it; it's fact!"

The fact atheists who were former Christians (and who love to brag about it) exist on this board are proof of that.

Totally wrong on all counts. Children are given some basic facts but they make the choice when they grow as to whether they want to believe or not.

What I find wrong is this constant intolerance in OT of different beliefs. Get over it....not everyone thinks the same.

LJS9502_basic

Generalising really doesn't help.

What I also find wrong in this forum is how some members will go into a mental lockdown if they read a thread that is perceived to be against religion, when some bring up good questions.

Well, it's good for the children to learn good values.

But seriously, I don't want to get confirmed, but in the Catholic church you have to if you want to be married BY the church. What do I do OT?

rcignoni

Get married by a Protestant church.

[QUOTE="rcignoni"]

Well, it's good for the children to learn good values.

But seriously, I don't want to get confirmed, but in the Catholic church you have to if you want to be married BY the church. What do I do OT?

Theokhoth

Get married by a Protestant church.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Oh..it has a lot to do with what you said. Again...that is not how my church teaches...and point of fact most children just sit in church with their parents and get the basic facts. They ARE NOT inundated with religion 24/7. You are generalizing. I made my OWN DECISION as did my siblings...and yes we are aware of what our parents believed. But we still made an adult decision.

Once again....a topic in OT filled with those that do not understand the decision making but have to voice their opinion.:roll:

dracula_16

I don't care what your church does. Not everyone has the same story as you do. Second, if you think I'm illogical don't bother replying to me. It's counter-productive.

How about your provide some links then to back up your claims of what is taught in Christian religions.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"]

We talking about religious indoctrination and you know that. Your just being difficult.

LJS9502_basic

You shouldn't teach your young child your opinions. Teaching them not to steal is not an opinion. Every person should be given a chance to form their own opinions. Obviously your behaviors will influence your child but telling your kid "there is a god" or "liberals are bad people" really isn't fair to your child.

What I also find wrong in this forum is how some members will go into a mental lockdown if they read a thread that is perceived to be against religion, when some bring up good questions.

MetalGear_Ninty

If this thread is not against religion, please explain how the TC explicitly goes "this is not a generalisation, but a fact" right after making a sweeping generalisation, and also explain why people are telling other people how to raise their children and calling it abuse when they raise their children with religious values?

That's why confirmation exists in Christianism. I don't know about other religions.Thiago26792

Well your still to young for that. I got confirmed when I was 13 ...what did I know then about other religions ? Not too much . I was still a child and they told me confirmation is just something I had to do. Anyway you can change your religion at any time unless you are muslim.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="rcignoni"]

Well, it's good for the children to learn good values.

But seriously, I don't want to get confirmed, but in the Catholic church you have to if you want to be married BY the church. What do I do OT?

rcignoni

Get married by a Protestant church.

Then try an Anglican church. They're like a go-between of Catholicism and Protestantism.

Well, it's good for the children to learn good values.

But seriously, I don't want to get confirmed, but in the Catholic church you have to if you want to be married BY the church. What do I do OT?

rcignoni

[QUOTE="-Austin-"]

Like a bunch of bored 16 year olds on a message board have the authority on religious studies?

Theokhoth

I'm 21 with an Associates Degree in religious studies. ;)

Congratulations. Your talking to a bunch of 16 year olds in the middle of the day.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

Like a bunch of bored 16 year olds on a message board have the authority on religious studies?

-Austin-

I'm 21 with an Associates Degree in religious studies. ;)

Congratulations. Your talking to a bunch of 16 year olds in the middle of the day.

Practise for when I'm teaching a bunch of 18 year olds all day.;)

[QUOTE="rcignoni"]

Well, it's good for the children to learn good values.

But seriously, I don't want to get confirmed, but in the Catholic church you have to if you want to be married BY the church. What do I do OT?

LJS9502_basic

@Theokhoth:Thanks for the advice, I'll look into it more later.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Totally wrong on all counts. Children are given some basic facts but they make the choice when they grow as to whether they want to believe or not.

What I find wrong is this constant intolerance in OT of different beliefs. Get over it....not everyone thinks the same.

MetalGear_Ninty

Generalising really doesn't help.

What I also find wrong in this forum is how some members will go into a mental lockdown if they read a thread that is perceived to be against religion, when some bring up good questions.

The difference here is that once they grow up the children can decide whether to keep on believing what they were taught as a child or not.
But to a degree... ya, Christianity's success lies in the impressions and molding to conform children at an early age...hamstergeddon

So does the success of just about everything else. . . .such as government.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

We talking about religious indoctrination and you know that. Your just being difficult.

-Austin-

You shouldn't teach your young child your opinions. Teaching them not to steal is not an opinion. Every person should be given a chance to form their own opinions. Obviously your behaviors will influence your child but telling your kid "there is a god" or "liberals are bad people" really isn't fair to your child.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

Like a bunch of bored 16 year olds on a message board have the authority on religious studies?

-Austin-

Damn, that's me... :?

Thats 90% of this board ;)

I know... I don't like the company I keep. :?

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

What I also find wrong in this forum is how some members will go into a mental lockdown if they read a thread that is perceived to be against religion, when some bring up good questions.

Theokhoth

If this thread is not against religion, please explain how the TC explicitly goes "this is not a generalisation, but a fact" right after making a sweeping generalisation, and also explain why people are telling other people how to raise their children and calling it abuse when they raise their children with religious values?

I wasn't talking specifically about this thread.

But you can't deny that some parents are far too forceful with their religious beliefs; which does cause some children psychological harm. TC harmed his own argument by making some ridiculous statements.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

What I also find wrong in this forum is how some members will go into a mental lockdown if they read a thread that is perceived to be against religion, when some bring up good questions.

Theokhoth

If this thread is not against religion, please explain how the TC explicitly goes "this is not a generalisation, but a fact" right after making a sweeping generalisation, and also explain why people are telling other people how to raise their children and calling it abuse when they raise their children with religious values?

A sweeping generalization? Are you telling me that the large majority of religious people in the world were not raised to be religious?

Remember, I did not claim that all religious people were indoctrinated as a child, but simply most, and I really don't think you could prove me otherwise.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="rcignoni"]

Well, it's good for the children to learn good values.

But seriously, I don't want to get confirmed, but in the Catholic church you have to if you want to be married BY the church. What do I do OT?

rcignoni

It's your future spouses wishes you should consider...not your parents. Nonetheless, if she is Catholic and her religion is important...Protestant churches aren't the answer.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"]

Teaching them "rules" and religion are very different. Religion is not a rule.

Religion has to be a personal decision, you said that yourself when we were arguing over the sociological factors behind religion. When you just tell your child what he or she has to believe your aren't giving them that opportunity.

Theokhoth

Teaching children religion does not hamper their choice to follow that religion their whole lives!

That doesn't even make sense. If you are indoctrinated as a child and remain with it for many years it is very likely you will stick with that religion.

It's common sense. If you are baptised in your parents church and then confirmed there, which is your parents choice not yours, you will probably be a Christian your whole life. I know there are exceptions, but they aren't really that common.

A sweeping generalization? Are you telling me that the large majority of religious people in the world were not raised to be religious?

Remember, I did not claim that all religious people were indoctrinated as a child, but simply most, and I really don't think you could prove me otherwise.

Gamer556

I think most atheists are indoctrinated to be that way as children. Not all, but most.

I really doubt you could prove me otherwise.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

Teaching them "rules" and religion are very different. Religion is not a rule.

Religion has to be a personal decision, you said that yourself when we were arguing over the sociological factors behind religion. When you just tell your child what he or she has to believe your aren't giving them that opportunity.

-Austin-

Teaching children religion does not hamper their choice to follow that religion their whole lives!

That doesn't even make sense. If you are indoctrinated as a child and remain with it for many years it is very likely you will stick with that religion.

It's common sense. If you are baptised in your parents church and then confirmed there, which is your parents choice not yours, you will probably be a Christian your whole life. I know there are exceptions, but they aren't really that common.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

We talking about religious indoctrination and you know that. Your just being difficult.

LJS9502_basic

You shouldn't teach your young child your opinions. Teaching them not to steal is not an opinion. Every person should be given a chance to form their own opinions. Obviously your behaviors will influence your child but telling your kid "there is a god" or "liberals are bad people" really isn't fair to your child.

So you can't see the difference between forcing your religion on your child and teaching them the consequences of stealing?

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Totally wrong on all counts. Children are given some basic facts but they make the choice when they grow as to whether they want to believe or not.

What I find wrong is this constant intolerance in OT of different beliefs. Get over it....not everyone thinks the same.

LJS9502_basic

Generalising really doesn't help.

What I also find wrong in this forum is how some members will go into a mental lockdown if they read a thread that is perceived to be against religion, when some bring up good questions.

Correct.

But nonetheless, some children, a minority, do have their parents religious beliefs pushed too harshly upon them; and can be used to manipulate them.

Your blanket statement: 'Children are given some basic facts but they make the choice when they grow as to whether they want to believe or not' did not make any awareness of this simple fact.

That doesn't even make sense. If you are indoctrinated as a child and remain with it for many years it is very likely you will stick with that religion.

It's common sense. If you are baptised in your parents church and then confirmed there, which is your parents choice not yours, you will probably be a Christian your whole life. I know there are exceptions, but they aren't really that common.

-Austin-

You mean how the TC was "indoctrinated" for thirteen years? You mean how Richard Dawkins was an Evangelical for xyz years of his childhood?

They are very common. You can find atheists bragging about how they were religious "until I grew a brain at age fifteen" all the time.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

Teaching them "rules" and religion are very different. Religion is not a rule.

Religion has to be a personal decision, you said that yourself when we were arguing over the sociological factors behind religion. When you just tell your child what he or she has to believe your aren't giving them that opportunity.

LJS9502_basic

Teaching children religion does not hamper their choice to follow that religion their whole lives!

That doesn't even make sense. If you are indoctrinated as a child and remain with it for many years it is very likely you will stick with that religion.

It's common sense. If you are baptised in your parents church and then confirmed there, which is your parents choice not yours, you will probably be a Christian your whole life. I know there are exceptions, but they aren't really that common.

Yes and kind of.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

What I also find wrong in this forum is how some members will go into a mental lockdown if they read a thread that is perceived to be against religion, when some bring up good questions.

MetalGear_Ninty

If this thread is not against religion, please explain how the TC explicitly goes "this is not a generalisation, but a fact" right after making a sweeping generalisation, and also explain why people are telling other people how to raise their children and calling it abuse when they raise their children with religious values?

I wasn't talking specifically about this thread.

But you can't deny that some parents are far too forceful with their religious beliefs; which does cause some children psychological harm. TC harmed his own argument by making some ridiculous statements.

Of course I don't deny that; there are some very crazy parents out there.

So you can't see the difference between forcing your religion on your child and teaching them the consequences of stealing?

-Austin-

Oh, God here comes the guy who seems to think he gets everything in this world and thinks he knows how to raise children better than their damn parents. Seriously, how old are you? Religion isn't a entity, it cant prey on anything, its a belief where anyone can choose to believe it or not. Its not child abuse because the definition of it implies physical, emotional or mental abuse, something a belief can't do. FYI, I was raised by Agnostics parents, and I choose this Christianity as my belief something, you probably won't understand.

Correct.

But nonetheless, some children, a minority, do have their parents religious beliefs pushed too harshly upon them; and can be used to manipulate them.

Your blanket statement: 'Children are given some basic facts but they make the choice when they grow as to whether they want to believe or not' did not make any awareness of this simple fact.

MetalGear_Ninty

[QUOTE="-Austin-"]

That doesn't even make sense. If you are indoctrinated as a child and remain with it for many years it is very likely you will stick with that religion.

It's common sense. If you are baptised in your parents church and then confirmed there, which is your parents choice not yours, you will probably be a Christian your whole life. I know there are exceptions, but they aren't really that common.

Theokhoth

You mean how the TC was "indoctrinated" for thirteen years? You mean how Richard Dawkins was an Evangelical for xyz years of his childhood?

They are very common. You can find atheists bragging about how they were religious "until I grew a brain at age fifteen" all the time.

The US is 80% Christian, and most of them were raised to be Christian at a young age. I think it's safe to say that the majority of indoctrinated children stick with those beliefs for the rest of their lives.

[QUOTE="Gamer556"]

A sweeping generalization? Are you telling me that the large majority of religious people in the world were not raised to be religious?

Remember, I did not claim that all religious people were indoctrinated as a child, but simply most, and I really don't think you could prove me otherwise.

Theokhoth

I think most atheists are indoctrinated to be that way as children. Not all, but most.

I really doubt you could prove me otherwise.

I don't think the burden of proof works like that.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"]

That doesn't even make sense. If you are indoctrinated as a child and remain with it for many years it is very likely you will stick with that religion.

It's common sense. If you are baptised in your parents church and then confirmed there, which is your parents choice not yours, you will probably be a Christian your whole life. I know there are exceptions, but they aren't really that common.

Theokhoth

You mean how the TC was "indoctrinated" for thirteen years? You mean how Richard Dawkins was an Evangelical for xyz years of his childhood?

They are very common. You can find atheists bragging about how they were religious "until I grew a brain at age fifteen" all the time.

Almost 75% of the country is Christian. Where did this people all come from? Most were indoctrinated as children and stuck with the religion.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"]

So you can't see the difference between forcing your religion on your child and teaching them the consequences of stealing?

LJS9502_basic

Being baptised and confirmed is more than simply being exposed to it.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

Correct.

But nonetheless, some children, a minority, do have their parents religious beliefs pushed too harshly upon them; and can be used to manipulate them.

Your blanket statement: 'Children are given some basic facts but they make the choice when they grow as to whether they want to believe or not' did not make any awareness of this simple fact.

LJS9502_basic

It wasn't that bit -- it was the 'Children are given basic facts...' bit; when some children are given much more than basic facts, such as 'If you do not accept this religion, you will burn in hell for eternity when you die, eternal suffering etc, etc.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

We talking about religious indoctrination and you know that. Your just being difficult.

-Austin-

You shouldn't teach your young child your opinions. Teaching them not to steal is not an opinion. Every person should be given a chance to form their own opinions. Obviously your behaviors will influence your child but telling your kid "there is a god" or "liberals are bad people" really isn't fair to your child.

So you can't see the difference between forcing your religion on your child and teaching them the consequences of stealing?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

That doesn't even make sense. If you are indoctrinated as a child and remain with it for many years it is very likely you will stick with that religion.

It's common sense. If you are baptised in your parents church and then confirmed there, which is your parents choice not yours, you will probably be a Christian your whole life. I know there are exceptions, but they aren't really that common.

Gamer556

You mean how the TC was "indoctrinated" for thirteen years? You mean how Richard Dawkins was an Evangelical for xyz years of his childhood?

They are very common. You can find atheists bragging about how they were religious "until I grew a brain at age fifteen" all the time.

The US is 80% Christian, and most of them were raised to be Christian at a young age. I think it's safe to say that the majority of indoctrinated children stick with those beliefs for the rest of their lives.

For sure.

Almost 75% of the country is Christian. Where did this people all come from? Most were indoctrinated as children and stuck with the religion.

-Austin-

Off to work....

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

Correct.

But nonetheless, some children, a minority, do have their parents religious beliefs pushed too harshly upon them; and can be used to manipulate them.

Your blanket statement: 'Children are given some basic facts but they make the choice when they grow as to whether they want to believe or not' did not make any awareness of this simple fact.

LJS9502_basic

Can you at least acknowledge that after 18 or so years of being raised in a Christian household, it is much harder to come to the conclusion that what you have believed your whole life is wrong? Like what has been said many times in this thread before, this country, as well as the rest of the world, is so strongly religious not because of personal, adult decisions, but because of child indoctrination.