Koran burning cancelled

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Ace6301

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#301 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] The Popes word is what we're supposed to go by while we're here on Earth :?Snipes_2

For Catholics...

Aren't we talking about Catholic and Christian Teachings :?

We're talking about Christians as a whole not a particular group of them, Christians follow the bible as a rule of thumb not all christians follow the pope. Heck I know alot of Catholics that believe that you don't get into heaven unless you are Catholic, even protestants go to hell.
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Xx_Hopeless_xX

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#302 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"][QUOTE="Super_Toad_64"] Whats everything else? Your avoiding the facts to give your own islam hateful view a shot at suceeding.

Super_Toad_64

I'm not avoiding facts at all..i am stating that this one video does not nullify he earlier claims..also, i am not being hateful towards Islam anywhere in this thread..

You are refuting a video of osama giving the reasons as to why he attacked america, yet your stating his reasons are different. The earlier claims are nothing but your claims with little to no evidence. Show me an factual post from osama stating differing reasons as to why 9/11 happend.

Really..not "factual"?..Did i not provide a link..did i not state it was documented..? Is it really that hard to open a new browser..hit Control C then Control V and click "Search" to see if they are genuine claims if you don't believe me?..I guess so..:roll:..Also, i am not refuting the video..merely stating that it does not nullify what he previously stated..

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Citrus25

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#303 Citrus25
Member since 2009 • 2466 Posts

I have breaking news http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/florida.quran.burning/index.html?hpt=P1&iref=NS1

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Snipes_2

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#304 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Ah the straw man argument. Condoms prevent life.....life is sacred. What rights are you talking about? Homosexuals are not condemned. As for priests....old tradition.Ninja-Hippo
It's not a straw man at all if you simply consider the point being made. His word is not gospel. His opinions are not infallible. (and as a side note, it may very well be an old tradition, but it's an old tradition of misogyny)

Actually, the Pope is infallible:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

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Snipes_2

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#305 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts
[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] For Catholics...Ace6301

Aren't we talking about Catholic and Christian Teachings :?

We're talking about Christians as a whole not a particular group of them, Christians follow the bible as a rule of thumb not all christians follow the pope. Heck I know alot of Catholics that believe that you don't get into heaven unless you are Catholic, even protestants go to hell.

Everyone CAN go to Hell. It doesn't mean that just because you're a different religion you are sent straight to hell.
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LJS9502_basic

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#306 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts
[QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] The pope reads the bible like everyone else. He does not have a telephone which goes to God. His word is not authority.

His word is Authority here on Earth...

For you, because of your beliefs. Not for everyone.

Er...let's use this as a logic puzzle. Whether one believes or not. Step one....let's say Jesus is God....start with that premise. Then the succession of pope's started with Peter who he put in charge of his church. What he told the first apostles...or preachers/priests...whatever name you choose is.....whatever you have bound on earth is bound in heaven....and whatever is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven. So by those conditions....then what the pope says would be applicable. The rest of it comes down to your own personal beliefs...but all things being equal...if the first premise is correct...Jesus is God....then the rest is met as well.
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Snipes_2

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#307 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts

I have breaking news http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/florida.quran.burning/index.html?hpt=P1&iref=NS1

Citrus25
Lol, based on what he said were assurances from a local Muslim leader that the Islamic center in New York would be moved -- an assertion rejected by the center's visionary in New York." Looks like someone is a liar.
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Super_Toad_64

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#308 Super_Toad_64
Member since 2010 • 216 Posts

[QUOTE="Super_Toad_64"]

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"] I'm not avoiding facts at all..i am stating that this one video does not nullify he earlier claims..also, i am not being hateful towards Islam anywhere in this thread..Xx_Hopeless_xX

You are refuting a video of osama giving the reasons as to why he attacked america, yet your stating his reasons are different. The earlier claims are nothing but your claims with little to no evidence. Show me an factual post from osama stating differing reasons as to why 9/11 happend.

Really..not "factual"?..Did i not provide a link..did i not state it was documented..? Is it really that hard to open a new browser..hit Control C then Control V and click "Search" to see if they are genuine claims if you don't believe me?..I guess so..:roll:..Also, i am not refuting the video..merely stating that it does not nullify what he previously stated..

You have shown me no link as factual as my own ergo my link is more reliable than yours, show me another link from Osama bin laden stating a differing reasons for 9/11.

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Ace6301

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#309 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Aren't we talking about Catholic and Christian Teachings :?Snipes_2
We're talking about Christians as a whole not a particular group of them, Christians follow the bible as a rule of thumb not all christians follow the pope. Heck I know alot of Catholics that believe that you don't get into heaven unless you are Catholic, even protestants go to hell.

Everyone CAN go to Hell. It doesn't mean that just because you're a different religion you are sent straight to hell.

So how can I avoid going to hell? Becoming a christian?
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rragnaar

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#310 rragnaar
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[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] His word is Authority here on Earth...

For you, because of your beliefs. Not for everyone.

We're talking about the beliefs of Christianity..

Even then, I still imagine that there isn't a group outside of Catholicism that would regard the Pope as THE spiritual authority here on earth.
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#311 Ninja-Hippo
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[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Ah the straw man argument. Condoms prevent life.....life is sacred. What rights are you talking about? Homosexuals are not condemned. As for priests....old tradition.Snipes_2

It's not a straw man at all if you simply consider the point being made. His word is not gospel. His opinions are not infallible. (and as a side note, it may very well be an old tradition, but it's an old tradition of misogyny)

Actually, the Pope is infallible:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

So the Pope was right to order crusades. He was right to declare himself Emperor of Europe. He was right to demand taxes and tribute. He was right to decide nobody could be the king of any land without being crowned first by him. You also realise that that is obviously not a christian teaching, but one produced by the Pope? 'The pope is infallible because the pope says he is infallible.'
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GreySeal9

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#312 GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Even the Pope said Non Christians can reach Heaven :?

http://biblelight.net/non-christians-saved.htm

LJS9502_basic

The Pope's word is not gospel.

Depends on whether the faith is correct now doesn't it? If Jesus was God....then it would be....according to the teachings.

How is this a response to what I said?

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Snipes_2

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#313 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] It's not a straw man at all if you simply consider the point being made. His word is not gospel. His opinions are not infallible. (and as a side note, it may very well be an old tradition, but it's an old tradition of misogyny) Ninja-Hippo

Actually, the Pope is infallible:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

So the Pope was right to order crusades. He was right to declare himself Emperor of Europe. He was right to demand taxes and tribute. He was right to decide nobody could be the king of any land without being crowned first by him. You also realise that that is obviously not a christian teaching, but one produced by the Pope? 'The pope is infallible because the pope says he is infallible.'

You didn't read the link did you...: "Papal infallibility is the dogma in Roman Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error[1] when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the universal Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation. It is also taught that the Holy Spirit works in the body of the Church, as sensus fidelium, to ensure that dogmatic teachings proclaimed to be infallible will be received by all Catholics. This dogma, however, does not state either that the Pope cannot sin in his own personal life or that he is necessarily free of error, even when speaking in his official capacity, outside the specific contexts in which the dogma applies."

What we're talking about, applies to the specific dogmatic contexts...

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Espada12

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#314 Espada12
Member since 2008 • 23247 Posts

Next up, getting that mosque built else where!

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Snipes_2

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#315 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts
[QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="rragnaar"] For you, because of your beliefs. Not for everyone.

We're talking about the beliefs of Christianity..

Even then, I still imagine that there isn't a group outside of Catholicism that would regard the Pope as THE spiritual authority here on earth.

We're going by Christianity though, People of separate religions are not automatically sent to Hell because of the religion they follow.
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Xx_Hopeless_xX

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#316 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="Super_Toad_64"] You are refuting a video of osama giving the reasons as to why he attacked america, yet your stating his reasons are different. The earlier claims are nothing but your claims with little to no evidence. Show me an factual post from osama stating differing reasons as to why 9/11 happend.

Super_Toad_64

Really..not "factual"?..Did i not provide a link..did i not state it was documented..? Is it really that hard to open a new browser..hit Control C then Control V and click "Search" to see if they are genuine claims if you don't believe me?..I guess so..:roll:..Also, i am not refuting the video..merely stating that it does not nullify what he previously stated..

You have shown me no link as factual as my own ergo my link is more reliable than yours, show me another link from Osama bin laden stating a differing reasons for 9/11.


"my own link is more reliable then yours"..Now Youtube is reliable?..as if videos can't be edited now :lol: ?..

FAS Note: The following statement from Usama bin Laden and his associates purports to be a religious ruling (fatwa) requiring the killing of Americans, both civilian and military. This document is part of the evidence that links the bin Laden network to the September 11 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. The original Arabic text of this statement may be found here.

Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders
World Islamic Front Statement

23 February 1998

Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin
Ayman al-Zawahiri, amir of the Jihad Group in Egypt
Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Egyptian Islamic Group
Shaykh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan
Fazlur Rahman, amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh

"All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on Allah, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al-Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said: "As for the fighting to repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life."

On that basis, and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."

This is in addition to the words of Almighty Allah: "And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? -- women and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"

We -- with Allah's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in Allah and wishes to be rewarded to comply with Allah's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson. "

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm

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Pixel-Pirate

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#317 Pixel-Pirate
Member since 2009 • 10771 Posts

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]Great news, but also very strange. He seems under the belief that the mosque is being moved, but they say they have no idea what he's talking about. Ninja-Hippo

I think he's referring to the landowner offering to sell the property for 18 - 20 mil.

Wow talk about a cash-in. It's only worth $4million.

Which makes me curious as to who is buying it for 20 million. Obviously not this Pastor.

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Ninja-Hippo

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#318 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts

You didn't read the link did you...:

What we're talking about, applies to the specific dogmatic contexts...

Snipes_2

Yes i did read the link. :? Answer my question; how is the pope infallible because the pope says he is infallible?

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LJS9502_basic

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#319 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

The Pope's word is not gospel.

GreySeal9

Depends on whether the faith is correct now doesn't it? If Jesus was God....then it would be....according to the teachings.

How is this a response to what I said?

It answers it exactly.:|
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Ninja-Hippo

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#320 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] We're going by Christianity though, People of separate religions are not automatically sent to Hell because of the religion they follow.

Surely NOBODY should be sent to an eternal damnation of fire and death and pain and suffering? God loves you, i was told.
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#321 TBoogy
Member since 2007 • 4382 Posts
[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I love how all these people on OT hostile to Islam try to hide it and try to come up with little ways to justify their gutter morality.

ohdearohdear
What's wrong with being hostile to Islam?

Because the Asian college student of Islamic faith that I know in Chicago does not deserve your hostility any more than I deserve to be hated because a black man robbed somebody once.
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GreySeal9

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#322 GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

[QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] His word is Authority here on Earth...LJS9502_basic
For you, because of your beliefs. Not for everyone.

Er...let's use this as a logic puzzle. Whether one believes or not. Step one....let's say Jesus is God....start with that premise. Then the succession of pope's started with Peter who he put in charge of his church. What he told the first apostles...or preachers/priests...whatever name you choose is.....whatever you have bound on earth is bound in heaven....and whatever is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven. So by those conditions....then what the pope says would be applicable. The rest of it comes down to your own personal beliefs...but all things being equal...if the first premise is correct...Jesus is God....then the rest is met as well.

How in the world is that logic?

You are simply stating premises and saying that they are are connected without telling us how they are connected and why it washes logically that they are connected.

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Snipes_2

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#323 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

You didn't read the link did you...:

What we're talking about, applies to the specific dogmatic contexts...

Ninja-Hippo

Yes i did read the link. :? Answer my question; how is the pope infallible because the pope says he is infallible?

Where are you getting "The pope is infallible because he says so"? IF you read the link you wouldn't have asked me "So the Pope was right to order crusades. He was right to declare himself Emperor of Europe. He was right to demand taxes and tribute. "
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GreySeal9

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#324 GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

You didn't read the link did you...:

What we're talking about, applies to the specific dogmatic contexts...

Snipes_2

Yes i did read the link. :? Answer my question; how is the pope infallible because the pope says he is infallible?

Where are you getting "The pope is infallible because he says so"? IF you read the link you wouldn't have asked me "So the Pope was right to order crusades. He was right to declare himself Emperor of Europe. He was right to demand taxes and tribute. "

You realize that your link doesn't actually point to any sort of actual infallibility, right?

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LJS9502_basic

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#325 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="rragnaar"] For you, because of your beliefs. Not for everyone.GreySeal9

Er...let's use this as a logic puzzle. Whether one believes or not. Step one....let's say Jesus is God....start with that premise. Then the succession of pope's started with Peter who he put in charge of his church. What he told the first apostles...or preachers/priests...whatever name you choose is.....whatever you have bound on earth is bound in heaven....and whatever is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven. So by those conditions....then what the pope says would be applicable. The rest of it comes down to your own personal beliefs...but all things being equal...if the first premise is correct...Jesus is God....then the rest is met as well.

How in the world is that logic?

You are simply stating premises and saying that they are are connected without telling us how they are connected and why it washes logically that they are connected.

Assuming the premises in logic are correct....which I said to do for this....it's follows exactly how logic puzzles follow.:|
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LJS9502_basic

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#326 LJS9502_basic  Online
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[QUOTE="ohdearohdear"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I love how all these people on OT hostile to Islam try to hide it and try to come up with little ways to justify their gutter morality.

TBoogy
What's wrong with being hostile to Islam?

Because the Asian college student of Islamic faith that I know in Chicago does not deserve your hostility any more than I deserve to be hated because a black man robbed somebody once.

Hostile does not necessarily mean violent. And people are free to like/dislike as they please.
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Ninja-Hippo

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#327 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

You didn't read the link did you...:

What we're talking about, applies to the specific dogmatic contexts...

Snipes_2

Yes i did read the link. :? Answer my question; how is the pope infallible because the pope says he is infallible?

Where are you getting "The pope is infallible because he says so"? IF you read the link you wouldn't have asked me "So the Pope was right to order crusades. He was right to declare himself Emperor of Europe. He was right to demand taxes and tribute. "

Um, yeah i would. I am asking you if you agree with those things and accept that he was right to do them, seeing as apparently he is infallible. Can we stop saying i haven't read the link now? Ironically the link explains my point. Did you read it? :P I kid. "In the year 1075, Pope Gregory VII asserted 27 statements regarding the powers of the papacy in Dictatus Papae: "22.That the Roman church has never erred; nor will it err to all eternity, the Scripture bearing witness."
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LJS9502_basic

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#328 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Yes i did read the link. :? Answer my question; how is the pope infallible because the pope says he is infallible?

Ninja-Hippo

Where are you getting "The pope is infallible because he says so"? IF you read the link you wouldn't have asked me "So the Pope was right to order crusades. He was right to declare himself Emperor of Europe. He was right to demand taxes and tribute. "

Um, yeah i would. I am asking you if you agree with those things and accept that he was right to do them, seeing as apparently he is infallible. Can we stop saying i haven't read the link now? Ironically the link explains my point. Did you read it? :P I kid. "In the year 1075, Pope Gregory VII asserted 27 statements regarding the powers of the papacy in Dictatus Papae: "22.That the Roman church has never erred; nor will it err to all eternity, the Scripture bearing witness."

FYI...infallibility refers only to matters of the church...ie doctrine. Not anything outside that.

7557119a-b0b4-411f-8473-9ab0e1e5a8cc1.03.01
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GreySeal9

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#329 GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Depends on whether the faith is correct now doesn't it? If Jesus was God....then it would be....according to the teachings.LJS9502_basic

How is this a response to what I said?

It answers it exactly.:|

No, it doesn't.

You seem to have some sort of problem fleshing out your responses.

It may make sense to you as you thought of it, but that does not mean that it goes without saying in practice.

How does what you said make the Pope's word gospel?

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Snipes_2

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#330 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Yes i did read the link. :? Answer my question; how is the pope infallible because the pope says he is infallible?

GreySeal9

Where are you getting "The pope is infallible because he says so"? IF you read the link you wouldn't have asked me "So the Pope was right to order crusades. He was right to declare himself Emperor of Europe. He was right to demand taxes and tribute. "

You realize that your link doesn't actually point to any sort of actual infallibility, right?

Yes, IT does...I quoted it...
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Snipes_2

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#331 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Where are you getting "The pope is infallible because he says so"? IF you read the link you wouldn't have asked me "So the Pope was right to order crusades. He was right to declare himself Emperor of Europe. He was right to demand taxes and tribute. "LJS9502_basic

Um, yeah i would. I am asking you if you agree with those things and accept that he was right to do them, seeing as apparently he is infallible. Can we stop saying i haven't read the link now? Ironically the link explains my point. Did you read it? :P I kid. "In the year 1075, Pope Gregory VII asserted 27 statements regarding the powers of the papacy in Dictatus Papae: "22.That the Roman church has never erred; nor will it err to all eternity, the Scripture bearing witness."

FYI...infallibility refers only to matters of the church...ie doctrine. Not anything outside that.

7557119a-b0b4-411f-8473-9ab0e1e5a8cc1.03.01

Thank You...
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Pixel-Pirate

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#332 Pixel-Pirate
Member since 2009 • 10771 Posts

Next up, getting that mosque built else where!

Espada12

Not hard. Just raise taxes on New Yorkers to raise the 20 million dollars needed. New Yorkers want it moved, so they obviously will not oppose higher taxes for it.

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Ninja-Hippo

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#333 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Thank You...

That does literally nothing to answer the still pressing question: Why is the pope infallible just because he says he is?
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LJS9502_basic

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#334 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

How is this a response to what I said?

GreySeal9

It answers it exactly.:|

No, it doesn't.

You seem to have some sort of problem fleshing out your responses.

It may make sense to you as you thought of it, but that does not mean that it goes without saying in practice.

How does what you said make the Pope's word gospel?

Uh no. If the faith is correct...that means the scripture is correct. Which means the pope does have some weight in this issue. Though TBH...as a Catholic I have never been taught what you assert is fact.
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Espada12

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#335 Espada12
Member since 2008 • 23247 Posts

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Next up, getting that mosque built else where!

Pixel-Pirate

Not hard. Just raise taxes on New Yorkers to raise the 20 million dollars needed. New Yorkers want it moved, so they obviously will not oppose higher taxes for it.

Or we could have some people from the anti mosque committee meet with the owner and tell them why he should move it.

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Ninja-Hippo

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#336 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Uh no. If the faith is correct...that means the scripture is correct.

Really? How? If i said 'If the math is correct, therefore the theory is correct' would you agree? You're saying this = that without actually explaining how.
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Theokhoth

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#337 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Thank You...

That does literally nothing to answer the still pressing question: Why is the pope infallible just because he says he is?

The Pope is not considered infallible all the time in Catholicism. He's only considered infallible when making a statement regarding Christian doctrine ex cathedra, which hasn't happened in about fifty years.
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Snipes_2

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#338 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Thank You...

That does literally nothing to answer the still pressing question: Why is the pope infallible just because he says he is?

Where does he say he is infallible in Regards to the Scripture? The link I posted said his infallibility is based on religious Dogma...A pope out of the Blue didn't just claim he was infallible and it was widely accepted as fact...
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#339 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Uh no. If the faith is correct...that means the scripture is correct.

Really? How? If i said 'If the math is correct, therefore the theory is correct' would you agree? You're saying this = that without actually explaining how.

You realize the faith comes from the scripture....right?:|
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coolbeans90

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#340 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Thank You...Ninja-Hippo
That does literally nothing to answer the still pressing question: Why is the pope infallible just because he says he is?

No one has argued that for the basis of papal infallibility.

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GreySeal9

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#341 GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Er...let's use this as a logic puzzle. Whether one believes or not. Step one....let's say Jesus is God....start with that premise. Then the succession of pope's started with Peter who he put in charge of his church. What he told the first apostles...or preachers/priests...whatever name you choose is.....whatever you have bound on earth is bound in heaven....and whatever is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven. So by those conditions....then what the pope says would be applicable. The rest of it comes down to your own personal beliefs...but all things being equal...if the first premise is correct...Jesus is God....then the rest is met as well.LJS9502_basic

How in the world is that logic?

You are simply stating premises and saying that they are are connected without telling us how they are connected and why it washes logically that they are connected.

Assuming the premises in logic are correct....which I said to do for this....it's follows exactly how logic puzzles follow.:|

You made extremely tenuous connections between your various premises.

Simply because Peter was put in charge of the charge does NOT logically conclude that anything the Pope says in gospel. That would be absurd.

You are failing to account for what the Pope actually says and how it matches it up to scripture.

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LJS9502_basic

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#342 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

You made extremely tenuous connections between your various premises.

Simply because Peter was put in charge of the charge does NOT logically conclude that anything the Pope says in gospel. That would be absurd.

You are failing to account for what the Pope actually says and how it matches it up to scripture.

GreySeal9

You do know we're talking only doctrine here right?

7557119a-b0b4-411f-8473-9ab0e1e5a8cc1.03.01
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GreySeal9

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#343 GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

You made extremely tenuous connections between your various premises.

Simply because Peter was put in charge of the charge does NOT logically conclude that anything the Pope says in gospel. That would be absurd.

You are failing to account for what the Pope actually says and how it matches it up to scripture.

LJS9502_basic

You do know we're talking only doctrine here right?

7557119a-b0b4-411f-8473-9ab0e1e5a8cc1.03.01

And Catholic doctrine is not gospel.

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LJS9502_basic

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#344 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

You made extremely tenuous connections between your various premises.

Simply because Peter was put in charge of the charge does NOT logically conclude that anything the Pope says in gospel. That would be absurd.

You are failing to account for what the Pope actually says and how it matches it up to scripture.

GreySeal9

You do know we're talking only doctrine here right?

7557119a-b0b4-411f-8473-9ab0e1e5a8cc1.03.01

And Catholic doctrine is not gospel.

And thus we go back to the initial logic puzzle. If Jesus is God....etc.
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#345 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Where does he say he is infallible in Regards to the Scripture? The link I posted said his infallibility is based on religious Dogma...A pope out of the Blue didn't just claim he was infallible and it was widely accepted as fact...

Um, that's EXACTLY what happened: In the year 1075, Pope Gregory VII asserted 27 statements regarding the powers of the papacy in Dictatus Papae: "22.That the Roman church has never erred; nor will it err to all eternity, the Scripture bearing witness."
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Ninja-Hippo

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#346 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Uh no. If the faith is correct...that means the scripture is correct.

Really? How? If i said 'If the math is correct, therefore the theory is correct' would you agree? You're saying this = that without actually explaining how.

You realize the faith comes from the scripture....right?:|

Your one aspect of the scripture was Jesus being God. Jesus could be God but totally hate all the stuff they wrote about him in the Bible. ;) Thus, Jesus being God does not = scripture correct.
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#347 rragnaar
Member since 2005 • 27023 Posts
This is about as off track as a thread can get.:P
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#348 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Where does he say he is infallible in Regards to the Scripture? The link I posted said his infallibility is based on religious Dogma...A pope out of the Blue didn't just claim he was infallible and it was widely accepted as fact...

Um, that's EXACTLY what happened: In the year 1075, Pope Gregory VII asserted 27 statements regarding the powers of the papacy in Dictatus Papae: "22.That the Roman church has never erred; nor will it err to all eternity, the Scripture bearing witness."

Technically they infer the infallibility from scripture text....
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LJS9502_basic

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#349 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Really? How? If i said 'If the math is correct, therefore the theory is correct' would you agree? You're saying this = that without actually explaining how.

You realize the faith comes from the scripture....right?:|

Your one aspect of the scripture was Jesus being God. Jesus could be God but totally hate all the stuff they wrote about him in the Bible. ;) Thus, Jesus being God does not = scripture correct.

Uh...those are his teachings. He was known as a teacher you know....
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#350 GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]You do know we're talking only doctrine here right?

7557119a-b0b4-411f-8473-9ab0e1e5a8cc1.03.01LJS9502_basic

And Catholic doctrine is not gospel.

And thus we go back to the initial logic puzzle. If Jesus is God....etc.

How does your logic puzzle result in Catholic doctrine being gospel?