Let's have a nice, long discussion about religion

[QUOTE="vlin1108"] I believe in evolution, but I don't believe in carbon dating... after a long time period.Rocky32189

[QUOTE="Rocky32189"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] I believe in evolution, but I don't believe in carbon dating... after a long time period.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Andrew_Xavier"][QUOTE="vlin1108"]

Yes and no. Humanity has seen Jesus as a human.

vlin1108

The bible isn't wrong? "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh." (Peter 2:18 )

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property." (Exodus 21:20-21)

"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24 )

"I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts-the sacrifice of every firstborn-that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD." (Ezekiel 20:25-26 )

"When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them-the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites-as the Lord your God has commanded you." (Deuteronomy 20:10-17 )

"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy." (Deuteronomy 7:1-2 )

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." (Leviticus 25:44-45)

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." (Psalms 104:5)

[QUOTE="Rocky32189"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] I believe in evolution, but I don't believe in carbon dating... after a long time period.vlin1108

I'm not trying to start a 20-page debate or anything, but just out of curiosity, what do you say to the hubble constant?

I'm not trying to start a 20-page debate or anything, but just out of curiosity, what do you say to the hubble constant?_glatisant_

I do not believe in God because I lack the faith I suppose. I do not see a reason why their has to be a God , and do not see anything that would signify a higher power.dave123321

[QUOTE="dave123321"]I do not believe in God because I lack the faith I suppose. I do not see a reason why their has to be a God , and do not see anything that would signify a higher power.Andrew_Xavier

[QUOTE="vlin1108"] Seven days can be highly interpretable in the Bible. I believe Earth is 6000 year old, but I also believe that creatures evolved up to this point.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="vlin1108"][QUOTE="Rocky32189"] But, doesn't evolution go completely against the story of creation told within Genesis in the bible? One tells us that God created the universe 6000 years ago including all the plants and animals as we know them today in seven days. The other tells us that everything we see today is the product of a gradual process (billions of years) of evolution, natural selection, etc. They both can't be right, can they?_glatisant_

I'm not trying to start a 20-page debate or anything, but just out of curiosity, what do you say to the hubble constant?

[QUOTE="vlin1108"] Why am I wrong?Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="_glatisant_"]

[QUOTE="vlin1108"] Seven days can be highly interpretable in the Bible. I believe Earth is 6000 year old, but I also believe that creatures evolved up to this point.vlin1108

I'm not trying to start a 20-page debate or anything, but just out of curiosity, what do you say to the hubble constant?

It's just that the reciprocal of the hubble constant is the age of the universe, as that was the time at which all matter was at one point, estimated at around 13 billion years.

topic. If you were raised following a certain religion, do you still agree with it or just follow it to make your parents happy?

if you chose to follow a different religion, which one did you choose and why?

if you are atheist, why did you choose to go that way?

I personally am agnostic. I just believe something bigger than all of us must exist out there. Also I figure no super-religious/atheists can really get on you for being agnostic. It's kind of the neutral position.

fluffy_kins

1. No, my parents were agnostic, I converted to Christianity after university, although I considered myself a Deist in my last year of highschool.

2. Because I went a lot of things in my life and come to the conclusion that there is more to this world than living for ourselves. I guess, I'll have to tell you my history. But let's just say when I was in my teenager years I wasn't the most polite person in the world. I hanged out with a lot of people where we did things that wasn't the most productive we could do in our youth. As a teenager I wanted to belong, given that my friends were rebellious and lived horrible lives, such as me, we were able to connect in many ways our closest families couldn't. We supported each other, had faith in each other's ability to pull through and overall give each other the family we wanted.

However, one of the things I completely found unusual, was that the people I spent time with were also anti-religious, especially to Christianity. When I decided to look into the religions that were most popular at the time, I concluded that believing, have faith in something higher than us, having a belief in an afterlife was quite fulfilling to me. I researched more about this topic, then I decided to test out God on a miracle I needed to know he existed, he pulled through, after that I became a Christian after university.

It was during university that had many met with people who such religious beliefs that honestly didn't get given that they were the most intelligent people I've met, yet they had faith so many things I considered irrational ( such as the creation story in the Bible). But then I realize that it's easy to deconstruct some else's beliefs, it makes me feel better about my beliefs any university student could do it, but it takes actual courage to deconstruct my own beliefs. When I did that, I come to the conclusion that having faith wasn't a bad component in daily life, it was refreshing know that when I graduated and converted to Christianity, I wasn't alone, that the world had more purpose than some dirtball in space where morality is subjective and our death signifies nothing to anyone 100 years after I died.

[QUOTE="fluffy_kins"]

if you are atheist, why did you choose to go that way?

dracula_16

Makes the most sense to me. The more I learn about dogmas, the more I want to distance myself from them.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] Why am I wrong?vlin1108

But I could take you to an observatory and show you the red shift.

[QUOTE="Rocky32189"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] I believe in evolution, but I don't believe in carbon dating... after a long time period.vlin1108

[QUOTE="vlin1108"] Hubble's law must be wrong then.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] Hubble's law must be wrong then.vlin1108

Sorry if I'm a bit irrelevant

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] Hubble's law must be wrong then.vlin1108

I would say "let's not" but it seems a little too late for that.Bloodbath_87

and why not? don't be a party pooper!

My mom is christian and my dad is protestant.

I became agnostic when I was 15.

[QUOTE="vlin1108"] Science has been wrong many times before; it could very well be wrong again.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] Science has been wrong many times before; it could very well be wrong again.vlin1108

You are making it sound like God told you this directly, not that this message is in a book thousands of years old with no evidence for the divine origins it claims.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] Science has been wrong many times before; it could very well be wrong again.vlin1108

So there are two options. One of them is the truth. A human tells you our planet is billions of years old. An omnipotent, eternal, divine presence preaches to the world that it's much younger than the other man said. Which option do you choose as the truth, huh? 'Cause I know what I'd choose.vlin1108

I'm Buddhist. I chose it because it satisfied my needs as far as faith goes.Tiefster

Ah, I like Buddhists, they are so, peacefull

[QUOTE="vlin1108"]So there are two options. One of them is the truth. A human tells you our planet is billions of years old. An omnipotent, eternal, divine presence preaches to the world that it's much younger than the other man said. Which option do you choose as the truth, huh? 'Cause I know what I'd choose.super_mario_128

Could a man predict that the jewish folk would reclaim Israel?vlin1108

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] Science has been wrong many times before; it could very well be wrong again.vlin1108

[QUOTE="vlin1108"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Talk about a fallacious argument. Just because a theory of science has been wrong in the past does not necessitate that this one is wrong. I could drag you by your hair (WOOOOOO BIBLE REF ERENCE) to an observatory and shove the red shift into your eyes if I really felt the need to. You have any empirical evidence which contradicts this?Rocky32189

[QUOTE="Rocky32189"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] So there are two options. One of them is the truth. A human tells you our planet is billions of years old. An omnipotent, eternal, divine presence preaches to the world that it's much younger than the other man said. Which option do you choose as the truth, huh? 'Cause I know what I'd choose.vlin1108

[QUOTE="vlin1108"][QUOTE="Rocky32189"] Give me proof that god put that message out. Because if he did, there wouldn't be any nonbelievers.Andrew_Xavier

The fact that it's in the Bible is proof itself. The Bible is God's word, after all; if it wouldn't be true, it wouldn't be there.vlin1108

[QUOTE="Andrew_Xavier"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] The fact that it's in the Bible is proof itself. The Bible is God's word, after all; if it wouldn't be true, it wouldn't be there.vlin1108

[QUOTE="Andrew_Xavier"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] The fact that it's in the Bible is proof itself. The Bible is God's word, after all; if it wouldn't be true, it wouldn't be there.vlin1108

[QUOTE="vlin1108"][QUOTE="Andrew_Xavier"] You continually skip my direct bible quotes, if you are saying the bible is correct, why don't you own slaves? Or kill people for working on sundays? Or stone women to death for losing their virginity prior to marriage? Or take over countrys because they aren't christian?AnObscureName

I'm interested to hear the answer to this too......

topic. If you were raised following a certain religion, do you still agree with it or just follow it to make your parents happy?

if you chose to follow a different religion, which one did you choose and why?

if you are atheist, why did you choose to go that way?

I personally am agnostic. I just believe something bigger than all of us must exist out there. Also I figure no super-religious/atheists can really get on you for being agnostic. It's kind of the neutral position.

fluffy_kins

I know for a fact that my mom is a Christian, I not so sure about my dad. As for my faith, I'm a big reason my mom, brother, and brother's wife and kids go to church today. Many of you know that I'm a ministry student. This profession is something that was not completely welcomed at first by my family. Looking back it seemed as if they thought I wouldn't be good enough, but now they are fully supportive for a variety of reasons. In otherwords, I did not choose to follow Christ in the manner that I have to make my family happy or proud.

btw, there is no such thing as a neutral position when it comes to faith in Jesus Christ.

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"][QUOTE="vlin1108"] I'm not allowed to; it's illegal.fluffy_kins

I'm interested to hear the answer to this too......

I'll answer.

"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh." (Peter 2:18 ) This does not say it is right or even ok to have slaves. To put this in simplistic terms, this verse assumes people will do things wrong and simply limits the harshness of their treatment to other humans.

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property." (Exodus 21:20-21) You have to be aware that this is the Old Testament. I'm not saying by any means that the Old Testament is inferior to the New Testament but often times the morality of the Old Testament is not as strict. If you look in Matthew 5 Jesus displays a stronger set of morality than what had been before. I could go in more detail with this passage but my basic point has been made.

"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24) I see nothing wrong with this personally. This submission does not mean the wife just lets the husband treat her harshly as this is a two-way relationship. Both the husband should love his wife with a tremendous love and in response, the wife should submit to her husband. Of all the females I've dated, they all want this honestly.

"I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts-the sacrifice of every firstborn-that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD." (Ezekiel 20:25-26 ) You act as if God does not have the right to punish the wicked... He is a holy God and will eventually punish all who do not seek him. You think he is wrong for that? He let us seek him despite the fact that we continuously disobey him. Listen to the song I mentioned in my most recent blog and you'll hear what I'm talking about.

"When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them-the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites-as the Lord your God has commanded you." (Deuteronomy 20:10-17 ) Simply put, they disobeyed God, he has every right.

"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy." (Deuteronomy 7:1-2 ) Because they deserved none... none of us do but God gives us a chance at redemption nonetheless. Why else do you think the Gospel of Jesus Christ is called the Good News?

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." (Leviticus 25:44-45) The basic idea of my rebuttal is mentioned above.

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." (Psalms 104:5) First of all, this is poetry, not a text book that should be taken completely literal. The end of the very verse before it says, "his ministers a flaming fire." I suppose that means it should be literal too... Second of all, the Hebrew word here is erets which can mean land, earth, and ground. It does not have to mean the entirety of the planet earth.

You don't choose your religion. You're born with it. I can't help the way I am!:cry:Theokhoth

Neither is universal. Some are indoctrinated and some choose.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]You don't choose your religion. You're born with it. I can't help the way I am!:cry:dracula_16

Neither is universal. Some are indoctrinated and some choose.

You're not born with it if you're indoctrinated. >_>