LOST thread is closed. Please use the other one for all finale discussion.

After thinking it over i really do think the MIB is smokey transformed. Remember when they asked Mom about the light, and if they would die if they went in there, Mom replied, "you'll be worse than dead" or something along those lines. So it's still the MIB, just jacked up so to speak

Personally I think it manifests the very core of evil in you or something like that. I might not be explaining this very well:P

After thinking it over i really do think the MIB is smokey transformed. Remember when they asked Mom about the light, and if they would die if they went in there, Mom replied, "you'll be worse than dead" or something along those lines. So it's still the MIB, just jacked up so to speak

Personally I think it manifests the very core of evil in you or something like that. I might not be explaining this very well:P

solidruss

[QUOTE="solidruss"]

After thinking it over i really do think the MIB is smokey transformed. Remember when they asked Mom about the light, and if they would die if they went in there, Mom replied, "you'll be worse than dead" or something along those lines. So it's still the MIB, just jacked up so to speak

Personally I think it manifests the very core of evil in you or something like that. I might not be explaining this very well:P

cpo335

Didn't she say something else though? How can you be worse than dead if it's the goodness in everyone, or did I miss something?:?

[QUOTE="cpo335"][QUOTE="solidruss"]

After thinking it over i really do think the MIB is smokey transformed. Remember when they asked Mom about the light, and if they would die if they went in there, Mom replied, "you'll be worse than dead" or something along those lines. So it's still the MIB, just jacked up so to speak

Personally I think it manifests the very core of evil in you or something like that. I might not be explaining this very well:P

solidruss

Didn't she say something else though? How can you be worse than dead if it's the goodness in everyone, or did I miss something?:?

Do you understand what I'm saying? :P I'm saying that Smokie and the MIB are two completely different entities. The MIB wants to leave. Smokie wants w/e. Smokie can only manifest dead characters. The MIB is dead. Therefore, Smokie can transform into the MIB. Smokie has also transformed into Yemi and Christian. While he was Christian and Yemi, he fooled Jack and Eko into believe that he was really Christian and Yemi (Jack actually thought his father was alive awlking around and Eko actually thought Yemi was there). This means that Smokie is an incredibly great actor and can convincingly play any character it wants to get what it wants. While he was manifesting the MIB, he was simply "playing the part" (you get it?).cpo335

But that doesn't make sense, because then he'd be "playing the part" when talking to Jacob. And Jacob already knows that MiB is the smoke monster. So why would MiB/Smokey talk to Jacob about wanting to get off the island, unless that is ACTUALLY what he wants.

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]It's ridiculous that people are complaining that the MiB doesn't have a name, as if calling him Steve or Bob would've been more satisfying.spazzx625

I'd say that this is a certainty. They are deliberately avoiding saying his name, and there would be absolutely no reason this would be the case if his name was NOT extremely important.

[QUOTE="spazzx625"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]It's ridiculous that people are complaining that the MiB doesn't have a name, as if calling him Steve or Bob would've been more satisfying.MrGeezer

I'd say that this is a certainty. They are deliberately avoiding saying his name, and there would be absolutely no reason this would be the case if his name was NOT extremely important.

I thought about this last night. Clauida(the mother of Jacob and Mib) was dead. And then the MiB was visited by his dead mother Clauida. One would assume that it was smokey right. Yes?

Thus making somkey control the MiB since he was dead.

:?

Swanogt19

I disagree. Jacob couldn't see her. This makes me believe that MiB simply has the ability to see dead people (like Hurley).

[QUOTE="spazzx625"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]It's ridiculous that people are complaining that the MiB doesn't have a name, as if calling him Steve or Bob would've been more satisfying.MrGeezer

I'd say that this is a certainty. They are deliberately avoiding saying his name, and there would be absolutely no reason this would be the case if his name was NOT extremely important.

I swear I heard Mother call him "Jose" as she was dying. Apparently Jose means He Will Enlargeand is a form of John :o Hmmm.....

Every episode this season should have been two hours long, screw V. It could have waited its turn until this summer.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="spazzx625"] Actually, his name could (and probably is) very important symbolically. Most of the names in LOST are, and considering the level of mystery, this one must be a whopper.slingshot_ylo

I'd say that this is a certainty. They are deliberately avoiding saying his name, and there would be absolutely no reason this would be the case if his name was NOT extremely important.

I swear I heard Mother call him "Jose" as she was dying. Apparently Jose means He Will Enlargeand is a form of John :o Hmmm.....

Every episode this season should have been two hours long, screw V. It could have waited its turn until this summer.

After thinking it over i really do think the MIB is smokey transformed. Remember when they asked Mom about the light, and if they would die if they went in there, Mom replied, "you'll be worse than dead" or something along those lines. So it's still the MIB, just jacked up so to speak

Personally I think it manifests the very core of evil in you or something like that. I might not be explaining this very well:P

solidruss

I agree with this. Though I relate back to why do we see the MiB dead body. That's what I dont get :?

[QUOTE="solidruss"]

After thinking it over i really do think the MIB is smokey transformed. Remember when they asked Mom about the light, and if they would die if they went in there, Mom replied, "you'll be worse than dead" or something along those lines. So it's still the MIB, just jacked up so to speak

Personally I think it manifests the very core of evil in you or something like that. I might not be explaining this very well:P

Swanogt19

I agree with this. Though I relate back to why do we see the MiB dead body. That's what I dont get :?

[QUOTE="Swanogt19"]

[QUOTE="solidruss"]

After thinking it over i really do think the MIB is smokey transformed. Remember when they asked Mom about the light, and if they would die if they went in there, Mom replied, "you'll be worse than dead" or something along those lines. So it's still the MIB, just jacked up so to speak

Personally I think it manifests the very core of evil in you or something like that. I might not be explaining this very well:P

xaos

I agree with this. Though I relate back to why do we see the MiB dead body. That's what I dont get :?

Yeah... I'm thinking the MIB that we saw was just the shell that was discarded once he "became" smokey.

That makes more sense. Thanks ;)

[QUOTE="cpo335"][QUOTE="solidruss"]

After thinking it over i really do think the MIB is smokey transformed. Remember when they asked Mom about the light, and if they would die if they went in there, Mom replied, "you'll be worse than dead" or something along those lines. So it's still the MIB, just jacked up so to speak

Personally I think it manifests the very core of evil in you or something like that. I might not be explaining this very well:P

solidruss

Didn't she say something else though? How can you be worse than dead if it's the goodness in everyone, or did I miss something?:?

*Puts on Flame Shield and Flame-Retardant Armor*

Am I the only one who feels LOST needs another season or at least 10 or so more episodes? I just feel like this season has been rushing through things, like it's got a checklist of things to do. That aside, I enjoyed this episode...great stuff :)

*runs....*

*Puts on Flame Shield and Flame-Retardant Armor*

Am I the only one who feels LOST needs another season or at least 10 or so more episodes? I just feel like this season has been rushing through things, like it's got a checklist of things to do. That aside, I enjoyed this episode...great stuff :)

*runs....*

II_Seraphim_II

Also, did anyone else love that they reused past season footage as a reminder/flashback? I hope they do that some more in the final episodes. It's really nice to see how they are tying (some) things together.spazzx625

After thinking it over i really do think the MIB is smokey transformed. Remember when they asked Mom about the light, and if they would die if they went in there, Mom replied, "you'll be worse than dead" or something along those lines. So it's still the MIB, just jacked up so to speak

Personally I think it manifests the very core of evil in you or something like that. I might not be explaining this very well:P

I think that the MiB and Smokey are the same person its just the his body is dead but his spirit is Smokey cuz remember Smokey wants to get off the island just like MiB so I think they are the same person. also their fake mom made it so they cant kill each other thats why Smokey couldnt kill Jacob, he had to use Ben

So are we getting a better idea of the endgame? Perhaps Smokey must be returned to the cave.Travo_basic

[QUOTE="Travo_basic"]So are we getting a better idea of the endgame? Perhaps Smokey must be returned to the cave.xaos

I't probably been LOST in the shuffle, but I'm still offering to resize and host any of these Simpson LOST toons:

Just post in this thread with what you want :)

Does anyone think there's a chance that Jack could go into the cave and become a new smoke monster?

Does anyone think there's a chance that Jack could go into the cave and become a new smoke monster?

MrGeezer

I thought about this last night. Clauida(the mother of Jacob and Mib) was dead. And then the MiB was visited by his dead mother Clauida. One would assume that it was smokey right. Yes?

Thus making somkey control the MiB since he was dead.

:?

Swanogt19

I't probably been LOST in the shuffle, but I'm still offering to resize and host any of these Simpson LOST toons:

Just post in this thread with what you want :)

solidruss

Does anyone think there's a chance that Jack could go into the cave and become a new smoke monster?

MrGeezer

[QUOTE="solidruss"]

I't probably been LOST in the shuffle, but I'm still offering to resize and host any of these Simpson LOST toons:

Just post in this thread with what you want :)

Chiddaling

[QUOTE="Chiddaling"]

[QUOTE="solidruss"]

I't probably been LOST in the shuffle, but I'm still offering to resize and host any of these Simpson LOST toons:

Just post in this thread with what you want :)

xaos

[QUOTE="Chiddaling"]

[QUOTE="solidruss"]

I't probably been LOST in the shuffle, but I'm still offering to resize and host any of these Simpson LOST toons:

Just post in this thread with what you want :)

xaos

Chicken, If I dropped a portion of my Stone Cold theme, surely you can switch for another week or so:P

It would be an interesting twist on Sayid saying "It's going to be you" or whatever it was he said on the sub :lol:xaos

I'm actually quite intrigued by the idea that perhaps Jacob's and MiB's "new" mother may have been a smoke monster as well.

Although the existence of Adam and Eve might invalidate that. A smoke monster can obviously take physical form, but what happens when a smoke monster dies? Would it leave a corpse?

But anyway, if it were to be the case that MiB's mother was a smoke monster as well, then it would seem to be very possible for Jack to replace both Jacob AND MiB.

[QUOTE="xaos"]It would be an interesting twist on Sayid saying "It's going to be you" or whatever it was he said on the sub :lol:MrGeezer

I'm actually quite intrigued by the idea that perhaps Jacob's and MiB's "new" mother may have been a smoke monster as well.

Although the existence of Adam and Eve might invalidate that. A smoke monster can obviously take physical form, but what happens when a smoke monster dies? Would it leave a corpse?

But anyway, if it were to be the case that MiB's mother was a smoke monster as well, then it would seem to be very possible for Jack to replace both Jacob AND MiB.

*Puts on Flame Shield and Flame-Retardant Armor*

Am I the only one who feels LOST needs another season or at least 10 or so more episodes? I just feel like this season has been rushing through things, like it's got a checklist of things to do. That aside, I enjoyed this episode...great stuff :)

*runs....*

II_Seraphim_II

They dragged the child scenes for too long in my opinion. That was the big fault of the episode.Chiddaling

[QUOTE="Chiddaling"]They dragged the child scenes for too long in my opinion. That was the big fault of the episode.Travo_basic

I thought the episode was pretty good, and I think some people went into it expecting more than just the origins of MiB and Jacob, which is why so many were disappointed.

I was reading around the internet after I watched it and I read a pretty good explanation from a site. Someone said that the Light that they were talking about was actually the electromagnetic fields from the modern day part of the show and that Jacob was given the drink to protect him from the energy of the field.

I was gonna put the text in a spiler tag but it wont work for some reason:cry:

Earlier, I've expressed concern that we're supposed to take it at face value that MiB is "evil", without having any supporting evidence.

Earlier, I've expressed concern at people having the assumption that Jacob is the "right" side to be on, as he represents good. This is in direct conflict with how Jacob brings people to the island to use as pawns in a game, all in order to make a statement to MiB about how he's wrong about human nature.

I've previously expressed concern that NO ONE in this series knows jack about ****, and that everyone is running around like chickens who just got their heads cut off. NO ONE is trustworthy. NO ONE can be expected to know what the hell they are talking about. And concepts such as "good" and "evil" continually seem to be rendered irrelevant. Because outside of a few short-term supporting characters such as Keamy, I don't think that ANYONE is "evil". Even the "evil" characters such as Ben Linus were revealed to be doing what they thought was "good". Even "good" characters like Jack end up making a lot of mistakes and causing a lot of bad stuff to happen.

Anyway, I just finished reading another discussion about Lost, and that combined with the origin of Jacob and MiB leads me to believe that no one knows **** (INCLUDING Jacob and MiB). That there are no "good guys" or "bad guys". That maybe we were never SUPPOSED to get the answers to all of the questions that we were looking for, because the entire point of the whole series is about how every single one of us is LOST. That "The Big Picture", or the overall answer to "What It's All About" is fundamentally unknowable. That despite the reasons that we come up with for fighting each other and segregating ourselves, most people are pretty much the same, neither good nor evil. We're all walking through a thick haze, never quite knowing where to go next, and all we have are the moments of love and kindness that we share with others. But we're still all blind and LOST, and will NEVER find the answers which we seek.

Maybe the questions that we have about the island are meaningless. Maybe it DOESN'T MATTER what's going on in a literal sense. Maybe "The Big Picture" is completely irrelevant. Perhaps the entire point is that love and sacrifice and forgiveness exist in a world in which EVERYONE is untrustworthy and LOST.

Maybe it doesn't even matter what "the source" actually is. Maybe the entire point is scenes like when Ilana accepts Ben. Or like when Ben is forced to let his adopted daughter be murdered in exchange for saving the island. Or when Jin dies with Sun because he promised that he'd never leave her again. We're all LOST, we're all walking through a thick haze, and really all that we can do is to do the best that we can.

In any case, last night's episode cemented in my mind that MiB is not pure evil. All he has EVER wanted to do is to leave the island, and his brother transformed him into something "worse than death".

When Jacob was talking about how MiB was an evil that must not be allowed to escape, I always had the impression that Jacob was full of ****. And it's nice to see some confirmation of that, because that tells me that I'm on the right track. I doubt that it has ANYTHING to do with MiB being "evil" or being "the smoke monster", because MiB was NEVER allowed to leave, not even when he was simply a mere human boy.

I'm starting to get worried that the writers really screwed up with this episode, that they didn't have everything planned from the beginning and that they are simply trying to make sense of everything by putting things together at the last minute.

Here's what I mean: In "House of the Rising Sun", where we first see Adam and Eve, Jack said that the bodies were not older than 40 or 50 years. "Across the Sea" clearly takes place hundreds of years earlier. So unless the writers have some unbelieavable explanation (maybe some more time travel) for how the bodies and the rocks moved through time, that could be a serious mess up that really ****s up the continuity of the show. I have my fingers crossed this wasn't a mistake by the writers.

But its these kinds of contradictions that we saw in this episode such as in the behaviour of Jacob and MiB that has me worried, it just felt out of place. The episode was just incomplete overall, it needed to answer all the questions it presented us.

I'm starting to get worried that the writers really screwed up with this episode, that they didn't have everything planned from the beginning and that they are simply trying to make sense of everything by putting things together at the last minute.

Here's what I mean: In "House of the Rising Sun", where we first see Adam and Eve, Jack said that the bodies were not older than 40 or 50 years. "Across the Sea" clearly takes place hundreds of years earlier. So unless the writers have some unbelieavable explanation (maybe some more time travel) for how the bodies and the rocks moved through time, that could be a serious mess up that really ****s up the continuity of the show. I have my fingers crossed this wasn't a mistake by the writers.

But its these kinds of contradictions that we saw in this episode such as in the behaviour of Jacob and MiB that has me worried, it just felt out of place. The episode was just incomplete overall, it needed to answer all the questions it presented us.

Samurai_Xavier

This is kinda obvious though. They probably had a general idea of how it would end, but not this mind-blowing thing the hardcore fans are waiting for. That group will get disappointed. There are already masterpieces of episodes, but yeah people will only remember the ending and thus have an overall huge negative view of the series. Already people on abc forums are starting to become angry, this is kinda sad.

I think Daemon? or whatever his name is have said that when he was a kid he loved the mystery behind "the force" in star wars, and once it was explained, it spoiled all the fun, he said something in these lines. It should be obvious that there's no answer, if there was people would have figured it out.

The island is not a physical place, my guess is that it is the subconsciousness, which in fact is projected in our dreams (locke dreaming about island events at the hospital). It's the place where a constant battle between the "angel" and the "devil" takes place. Stop nitpicking about inconsistencies, those are irrelevant.