Luke was more powerful than Vader and even Mace Windu, because

although Vader beat Luke in Empire Strikes Back, you have to take into account that Vader started training as a Jedi when he was 9 years old, and Luke started his training when he was 19. That's 10 more years of training, and the first time they fought each other occured only 2 years after Luke started his training.

Luke actually put up a good fight in Empire Strikes Back considering he only had 2 years of Jedi training.

Vadar >>>>>>> Luke.

Luke was not more powerful. In the end the prophecy about vader came true.

I thought it was because Mace also happens to be this guy that he would clearly blow Luke's sorry *** away any day of the week

Vader was also half machine at time of said fight

Vader held back on Luke in both battles, he didn't want to kill him. Windu trained as a jedi from birth, 9 is actually a very old age to start in the SW universe

That is because in the Empire Strikes Back, Vadar wasn't really fighting him, he was just toying with Luke. Remember Vadar didn't want to kill Luke, he wanted him to join him, Vader could have kick his butt at any momement in that fight and just destroyed Luke.

Vader was also half machine at time of said fight

Sword-Demon

yea, but his suit worked to his advantage when luke clipped him on the shoulder. if vader wasn't half machine, luke would've cut him all the way through.

Plus he had a blue lightsaber, then switched to green

Vader > Luke because Vader actually fulfilled the prophecy like he was supposed to by beating The Emperor, who beat Mace Windu and Yoda (and would've beaten Luke).scorch-62

Sam Jackson is Mace Windu.

Your arguement is invalid.

[spoiler] Sam Jackson let Anakin win. [/spoiler]

Vader was extremely old at the time. And perhaps he wasn't really trying to win. Since his good side was coming out. He didn't have any problems pwning him in Empire Strikes Back.

I thought it was because Mace also happens to be this guy that he would clearly blow Luke's sorry *** away any day of the week

Serraph105

WHO IS MARCELLUS WALLACE?!

GreyskullPower

Vader was extremely old at the time. And perhaps he wasn't really trying to win. Since his good side was coming out. He didn't have any problems pwning him in Empire Strikes Back.

Morphic

[QUOTE="GreyskullPower"]WHO IS MARCELLUS WALLACE?!

-Sun_Tzu-

What ain't no country I ever heard of!

They speak English in What!?

I was not that impressed with Luke's jedi skills. -Sun_Tzu-

I agree Obi-Wan could have taught him better...

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="GreyskullPower"]WHO IS MARCELLUS WALLACE?!

What ain't no country I ever heard of!

They speak English in What!?

[QUOTE="GreyskullPower"]WHO IS MARCELLUS WALLACE?!

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]I was not that impressed with Luke's jedi skills. jvmonster

I agree Obi-Wan could have taught him better...

I don't know how this list came about, but here it is.

Star Wars Midichlorians:

Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader = 27,700

Darth Sidious / Emperor Palpatine (with Kyber Crystal) = 20,500

Yoda = 17,700

Luke Skywalker = 14,500

Princess Leia Organa Skywalker Solo = 14,500

Aenon Jurtis (Most powerful Jedi Master prior to Yoda) = 14,200

Shintor Beerus (Ancient Jedi Master) = 13,900

Ce Ce Denowai (the most powerful female Jedi) = 13,700

Ben Skywalker (Star Wars Episodes 7 8 9) = 13,700

Anakin Solo (Star Wars Episode vii viii ix) = 13,700

I don't know how this list came about, but here it is.

Star Wars Midichlorians:

Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader = 27,700

Darth Sidious / Emperor Palpatine (with Kyber Crystal) = 20,500

Yoda = 17,700

Luke Skywalker = 14,500

Princess Leia Organa Skywalker Solo = 14,500

Aenon Jurtis (Most powerful Jedi Master prior to Yoda) = 14,200

Shintor Beerus (Ancient Jedi Master) = 13,900

Ce Ce Denowai (the most powerful female Jedi) = 13,700

Ben Skywalker (Star Wars Episodes 7 8 9) = 13,700

Anakin Solo (Star Wars Episode vii viii ix) = 13,700

jrhawk42

ugh Midichlorians don't mean squat. Obi-Won defeated Anakin in Episode 3 and he has like 9000 less of those things.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"]Vader > Luke because Vader actually fulfilled the prophecy like he was supposed to by beating The Emperor, who beat Mace Windu and Yoda (and would've beaten Luke).Sword-Demon

I'm going to pretend that midihcloreans don't exist and that they were never part of the Star Wars universe or continuity.

I'm going to pretend that midihcloreans don't exist and that they were never part of the Star Wars universe or continuity.

DarkGamer007

I'm going to pretend that midihcloreans don't exist and that they were never part of the Star Wars universe or continuity.

DarkGamer007

although midihicloreans are pointless, episode 2 and 3 are actually worse than episode 1 because of the teenage anakin, who just whined the whole time.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="GreyskullPower"]WHO IS MARCELLUS WALLACE?!

THE_DRUGGIE

What ain't no country I ever heard of!

They speak English in What!?

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

I'm going to pretend that midihcloreans don't exist and that they were never part of the Star Wars universe or continuity.

neohergeo

althoughmidihicloreans are pointless, episode 2 and 3 are actually worse than episode 1 because of the teenage anakin, who just whined the whole time

Vader was barely alive all those years, that's why Luke was able to beat him.

In the end (of the movies that is), no one surpassed Yoda or Palpatine's power.

They're all weak. Kyle Katarn ftw

Vader was barely alive all those years, that's why Luke was able to beat him.

In the end (of the movies that is), no one surpassed Yoda or Palpatine's power.

Guppy507

vader was very much alive, in fact he was more alive in his suit then he ever was.

his suit also gave him 4 more inches of height, from 5`10 to 6`2 which gave him an advantage when fighting luke.

also vader's suit saved him when luke hit his shoulder in empire strikes back. if he wasn't wearing the suit, luke would've cut his upper torso in half

ugh Midichlorians don't mean squat. Obi-Won defeated Anakin in Episode 3 and he has like 9000 less of those things.

neohergeo

Obi-wan won because of Anakin's hubris not because of skill or power.

Vader was barlely trying.

vader was very much alive, in fact he was more alive in his suit then he ever was.

his suit also gave him 4 more inches of height, from 5`10 to 6`2 which gave him an advantage when fighting luke.

also vader's suit saved him when luke hit his shoulder in empire strikes back. if he wasn't wearing the suit, luke would've cut his upper torso in half

neohergeo

[QUOTE="neohergeo"]

ugh Midichlorians don't mean squat. Obi-Won defeated Anakin in Episode 3 and he has like 9000 less of those things.

jrhawk42

Obi-wan won because of Anakin's hubris not because of skill or power.

Vader pre-mutilation>Mace Windu(although Windu was better with the lightsaber)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vader>Luke

Nah, if anything, the suit slowed him down and reduced his force abilities.

Guppy507

The suit did nothing to his force abilities.

[spoiler] Vader still > luke however, the prophecy was that anakin would be the one to defeat the sith, in the end he was the one who defeated the sith. [/spoiler]

Nah, if anything, the suit slowed him down and reduced his force abilities.

Guppy507

He's right, he showed much more agility in episodes 2-3 and TV series (most likely because of limited budget and special effects). In the scene where he gets his armor he moves like a monster from the old movies (maybe a Frankenstein homage or simply he wasn't accustomed to his new bodyparts.

But Grievous was also half machine and he was very agile and versatile compared to Vader.

Vader pre-mutilation>Mace Windu(although Windu was better with the lightsaber)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vader>Luke

Lockedge

We don't know that. He didn't fight Mace Windu. He cut off his hand by surprise. Mace Windu was supposed to be the 2nd most powerful Jedi.

[QUOTE="Guppy507"]

Nah, if anything, the suit slowed him down and reduced his force abilities.

Espada12

The suit did nothing to his force abilities.

Plus, you'd think that if he tried to use force lightning, he'd **** himself up since he's all metal and stuff.

[QUOTE="Guppy507"]

Nah, if anything, the suit slowed him down and reduced his force abilities.

dragon7x2k

He's right, he showed much more agility in episodes 2-3 and TV series (most likely because of limited budget and special effects). In the scene where he gets his armor he moves like a monster from the old movies (maybe a Frankenstein homage or simply he wasn't accustomed to his new bodyparts.

But Grievous was also half machine and he was very agile and versatile compared to Vader.

Luke was in his prime and Vader is twice as old. Obviously the younger would win.

Now if it were Anakin and Luke both in their primes, Anakin would destroy Luke...

Batman is the better jedi.

I agree somewhat. Luke in the original trilogy is still a newbie as a jedi and vader is very experienced. In the original trilogy Vader shows he is more powerful however in overall ability over the course of their life I'd say Luke became more powerful than vader and windu.

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] What?

stuttermouth

What ain't no country I ever heard of!

They speak English in What!?

Indeed. I nearly pissed myself!!!!