Morals without God?

Why should people adhere to your point of view on adultery? Seriously leave people live the way they want. You guys hate it so much when some Muslim dude judge women in Bikinis :roll:GazaAli

I don't think everyone should have the exact same opinion I do over this, but I certainly think people shouldn't have your opinion, not just because it's immoral, but because it's outrageous and it has nothing to do with reality and fair punishment, it's only something written in a holy book.

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="GazaAli"] It does not make you intolerant or whatever, its just not your business.GazaAli

well did not expect this from you. Yes it is since they are living in one society. Societies have their own social norms and laws that people should adhere to. If Iranians don't like Iran they get out of it, just like when Gazans don't like Gaza they get out of it and live happily ever after. Because by this logic, extremists and some other factions of Muslims should launch a full-scale attack on the US for the widespread of Bikinis and booze, which is also absurd to me.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="xaos"] Aaaaaand we've just gone round the final corner into crazytownPixel-Pirate

And I can safely say those cultures are crazy and don't deserve respect.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Seriously leave people live the way they want.worlock77

I agree, which is why consenting adults shouldn't be executed for making sexy time with each other.

Why shouldn't they be? They're violating the most sacred union 2 people can be in. The most sacred agreement a person can make. They're showing that they cannot be trusted in the most serious situation possible. If they don't view marriage that way, they shouldn't have gotten married in the first place.

The issue is that most of society just doesn't take marriage seriously enough anymore. It's become a joke. It takes individuals (or Gods) taking action to change the trend. I think most people just don't realize how serious cheating is. I think it should be treated just below murder and rape.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

[QUOTE="xaos"] But it is the business of the people doing the stoning, despite them not being involved in the alleged offense? :roll:xaos

well did not expect this from you. Yes it is since they are living in one society. Societies have their own social norms and laws that people should adhere to. If Iranians don't like Iran they get out of it, just like when Gazans don't like Gaza they get out of it and live happily ever after. Because by this logic, extremists and some other factions of Muslims should launch a full-scale attack on the US for the widespread of Bikinis and booze, which is also absurd to me.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] Not necessarily, you just need to realize people have different ideals and cultures around the world.GazaAli

And I can safely say those cultures are crazy and don't deserve respect.

Most Americans have little respect for traditional morals and the way they are enforced in the Muslim world. I'm a Christian, and a US citizen.. but I think they had it closer to right back in ancient Isreal than our legal system does now. I know alot of the same principles are upheld in the Muslim world, even today.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] Not necessarily, you just need to realize people have different ideals and cultures around the world.GazaAli

And I can safely say those cultures are crazy and don't deserve respect.

I'd say the difference is that western cultures don't condone murder for civil disputes.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Seriously leave people live the way they want.hartsickdiscipl

I agree, which is why consenting adults shouldn't be executed for making sexy time with each other.

Why shouldn't they be? They're violating the most sacred union 2 people can be in. The most sacred agreement a person can make. They're showing that they cannot be trusted in the most serious situation possible. If they don't view marriage that way, they shouldn't have gotten married in the first place.

The issue is that most of society just doesn't take marriage seriously enough anymore. It's become a joke. It take individuals (or Gods) taking action to change the trend. I think most people just don't realize how serious cheating is. I think it should be treated just below murder and rape.

They shouldn't be because it's something that should be punishable by divorce, not goddamn murder. Personally I think you're ****** in the head if you advocate this.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

And I can safely say those cultures are crazy and don't deserve respect.

Pixel-Pirate

I'd say the difference is that western cultures don't condone murder for civil disputes.

And here is where we could really use a reliance on God's laws, as opposed to our own variants.

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="GazaAli"]

well did not expect this from you. Yes it is since they are living in one society. Societies have their own social norms and laws that people should adhere to. If Iranians don't like Iran they get out of it, just like when Gazans don't like Gaza they get out of it and live happily ever after. Because by this logic, extremists and some other factions of Muslims should launch a full-scale attack on the US for the widespread of Bikinis and booze, which is also absurd to me.

GazaAli

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Why should people adhere to your point of view on adultery? Seriously leave people live the way they want. You guys hate it so much when some Muslim dude judge women in Bikinis :roll:bloodling

I don't think everyone should have the exact same opinion I do over this, but I certainly think people shouldn't have your opinion, not just because it's immoral, but because it's outrageous and it has nothing to do with reality and fair punishment, it's only something written in a holy book.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

I don't have an issue with women being stoned to death for adultery. Or men for that matter. People just don't want to be accountable these days.

GazaAli

Sooooo, two consenting adults having sex with someone other than their spouse should be punishable by death? Wow. I guess a lot of people should be stoned to death according to you eh?

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you morally have against adultery?

No, I won't "leave people to live the way they want". The minute I do that is the minute I stop caring about the atrocities that go on around the world. What? Should we all just let people molest children as long as it's part of their culture? I guess it's cool what happened in Rwanda too because, hey, it's just part of their culture right? F*** peoples cultures. Wrong is wrong no matter where you grew up.

[QUOTE="bloodling"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Why should people adhere to your point of view on adultery? Seriously leave people live the way they want. You guys hate it so much when some Muslim dude judge women in Bikinis :roll:GazaAli

I don't think everyone should have the exact same opinion I do over this, but I certainly think people shouldn't have your opinion, not just because it's immoral, but because it's outrageous and it has nothing to do with reality and fair punishment, it's only something written in a holy book.

Who exactly benefits from being stoned to death? God? Holy justice?

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] don't respect them then, just like some westerners always cry how Muslims don't respect their culture and their way of living :roll:hartsickdiscipl

I'd say the difference is that western cultures don't condone murder for civil disputes.

And here is where we could really use a reliance on God's laws, as opposed to our own variants.

So you support theocracy?

99% of the views and points in this topic rely on absolutely one thing, which is that the western cultures and their laws are the right one and ultimately successful and effective, which can and can't be true. What I want to say here is that you are not the benchmark.GazaAli

99% of the views and points in this topic rely on absolutely one thing, which is that the western cultures and their laws are the right one and ultimately successful and effective, which can and can't be true. What I want to say here is that you are not the benchmark.GazaAli

Not at all. Nothing's perfect, especially not stoning people to death. I base my opinion on quite a few things that have nothing to do with "western culture". As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that matters is my opinion, and my opinion is very open to new ideas.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="redstorm72"]

Sooooo, two consenting adults having sex with someone other than their spouse should be punishable by death? Wow. I guess a lot of people should be stoned to death according to you eh?

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you morally have against adultery?

redstorm72

No, I won't "leave people to live the way they want". The minute I do that is the minute I stop caring about the atrocities that go on around the world. What? Should we all just let people molest children as long as it's part of their culture? I guess it's cool what happened in Rwanda too because, hey, it's just part of their culture right? F*** peoples cultures. Wrong is wrong no matter where you grew up.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

I'd say the difference is that western cultures don't condone murder for civil disputes.

Pixel-Pirate

And here is where we could really use a reliance on God's laws, as opposed to our own variants.

So you support theocracy?

Absolutely. Just not necessarily the type being practiced in parts of the world today. But true rule by God, yes.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

And here is where we could really use a reliance on God's laws, as opposed to our own variants.

hartsickdiscipl

So you support theocracy?

Absolutely. Just not necessarily the type being practiced in parts of the world today. But true rule by God, yes.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] Why should people adhere to your point of view on adultery? Seriously leave people live the way they want. You guys hate it so much when some Muslim dude judge women in Bikinis :roll:GazaAli

No, I won't "leave people to live the way they want". The minute I do that is the minute I stop caring about the atrocities that go on around the world. What? Should we all just let people molest children as long as it's part of their culture? I guess it's cool what happened in Rwanda too because, hey, it's just part of their culture right? F*** peoples cultures. Wrong is wrong no matter where you grew up.

Absolutely. Just not necessarily the type being practiced in parts of the world today. But true rule by God, yes.

hartsickdiscipl

Let's just make a new system so everyone goes to heaven. Let's punish people according to what God says. Wonderful.

99% of the views and points in this topic rely on absolutely one thing, which is that the western cultures and their laws are the right one and ultimately successful and effective, which can and can't be true. What I want to say here is that you are not the benchmark.GazaAli

This isn't about western culture being the bench mark for right and wrong, this is about basic critical thinking. Here's an example of some critical thinking, killing someone by pelting them to death with rocks over a crime that harms nothing other than the feelings of a spouse, is stupid. Anyone from anywhere on the planet should be able to figure that out.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="bloodling"]

I don't think everyone should have the exact same opinion I do over this, but I certainly think people shouldn't have your opinion, not just because it's immoral, but because it's outrageous and it has nothing to do with reality and fair punishment, it's only something written in a holy book.

bloodling

Who exactly benefits from being stoned to death? God? Holy justice?

[QUOTE="bloodling"]

Who exactly benefits from being stoned to death? God? Holy justice?

GazaAli

The only thing I said was that this kind of punishment is outrageous. I could add quite a few adjectives.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

So you support theocracy?

testfactor888

Absolutely. Just not necessarily the type being practiced in parts of the world today. But true rule by God, yes.

That's the beauty of it. I won't do anything with them. God will decide. Humans don't have the right to decide each other's fates.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] Why should people adhere to your point of view on adultery? Seriously leave people live the way they want. You guys hate it so much when some Muslim dude judge women in Bikinis :roll:GazaAli

No, I won't "leave people to live the way they want". The minute I do that is the minute I stop caring about the atrocities that go on around the world. What? Should we all just let people molest children as long as it's part of their culture? I guess it's cool what happened in Rwanda too because, hey, it's just part of their culture right? F*** peoples cultures. Wrong is wrong no matter where you grew up.

I don't care where anyone comes from, there should be a universal truth in that "hurting people is wrong". If that's not true for your or other peoples cultures, then I have completely lost faith in the human race.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Absolutely. Just not necessarily the type being practiced in parts of the world today. But true rule by God, yes.

bloodling

Let's just make a new system so everyone goes to heaven. Let's punish people according to what God says. Wonderful.

How do you define "heaven?" I personally believe that we've misinterpreted it for centuries. It doesn't have to mean anything other than outer space, or maybe a different dimension. I guess we'll find out.

[QUOTE="testfactor888"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Absolutely. Just not necessarily the type being practiced in parts of the world today. But true rule by God, yes.

hartsickdiscipl

That's the beauty of it. I won't do anything with them. God will decide. Humans don't have the right to decide each other's fates.

You're contradicting yourself.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="redstorm72"]

No, I won't "leave people to live the way they want". The minute I do that is the minute I stop caring about the atrocities that go on around the world. What? Should we all just let people molest children as long as it's part of their culture? I guess it's cool what happened in Rwanda too because, hey, it's just part of their culture right? F*** peoples cultures. Wrong is wrong no matter where you grew up.

redstorm72

I don't care where anyone comes from, there should be a universal truth in that "hurting people is wrong". If that's not true for your or other peoples cultures, then I have completely lost faith in the human race.

Sorry, but that's not the universal truth that we go by in the western world. We kill people by the thousands in wars, and we execute criminals in many states. We're no better.

"For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." Nice...hole2score

I don't see how these things deserve any respect from my part, or some sort of tolerance.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="testfactor888"] What would you do with the people who do not believe in god than in your theocracyworlock77

That's the beauty of it. I won't do anything with them. God will decide. Humans don't have the right to decide each other's fates.

You're contradicting yourself.

How so?

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]99% of the views and points in this topic rely on absolutely one thing, which is that the western cultures and their laws are the right one and ultimately successful and effective, which can and can't be true. What I want to say here is that you are not the benchmark.redstorm72

This isn't about western culture being the bench mark for right and wrong, this is about basic critical thinking. Here's an example of some critical thinking, killing someone by pelting them to death with rocks over a crime that harms nothing other than the feelings of a spouse, is stupid. Anyone from anywhere on the planet should be able to figure that out.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

That's the beauty of it. I won't do anything with them. God will decide. Humans don't have the right to decide each other's fates.

hartsickdiscipl

You're contradicting yourself.

How so?

Well you say that adulters should be stoned to death, but then you say that human's don't have the right to decide each other's fate. You can't have it both ways, so which is it?

[QUOTE="hole2score"] "For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." Nice...bloodling

I don't see how these things deserve any respect from my part, or some sort of tolerance.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]99% of the views and points in this topic rely on absolutely one thing, which is that the western cultures and their laws are the right one and ultimately successful and effective, which can and can't be true. What I want to say here is that you are not the benchmark.GazaAli

This isn't about western culture being the bench mark for right and wrong, this is about basic critical thinking. Here's an example of some critical thinking, killing someone by pelting them to death with rocks over a crime that harms nothing other than the feelings of a spouse, is stupid. Anyone from anywhere on the planet should be able to figure that out.

I totally agree that we in the western world put far too little value on sex. It's disgusting.

One thing though- Sex before marriage is "fornication." Adultery is the term used when you cheat on your spouse. :P I knew what you meant though.

I don't completly know what your asking but i have moralswithout god. Of course if religion never existed i know that my morals would in some way or another be affected. My morals right now are already in a state of flux.

[QUOTE="bloodling"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Absolutely. Just not necessarily the type being practiced in parts of the world today. But true rule by God, yes.

hartsickdiscipl

Let's just make a new system so everyone goes to heaven. Let's punish people according to what God says. Wonderful.

How do you define "heaven?" I personally believe that we've misinterpreted it for centuries. It doesn't have to mean anything other than outer space, or maybe a different dimension. I guess we'll find out.

We'll never find out (in my opinion), but that's not my point. What is the point of punishing people according to what's written in a holy book? I am 100% confident that holy books have nothing to do with God because God doesn't exist. I certainly can't prove that, but you can't prove me wrong either, so wanting laws to be based off this for absolutely no reason other than belief is something I will never understand.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

You're contradicting yourself.

worlock77

How so?

Well you say that adulters should be stoned to death, but then you say that human's don't have the right to decide each other's fate. You can't have it both ways, so which is it?

You're forgetting what my faith is based on. It's based on the idea that higher beings gave us the laws laid down in the Bible and other holy books. That being said, if God tells us to stone the adulterer, he has decided their fate.. not me.

I'd rather God just kill them himself, but I'll follow his commands if he tells me to do it.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="redstorm72"]

No, I won't "leave people to live the way they want". The minute I do that is the minute I stop caring about the atrocities that go on around the world. What? Should we all just let people molest children as long as it's part of their culture? I guess it's cool what happened in Rwanda too because, hey, it's just part of their culture right? F*** peoples cultures. Wrong is wrong no matter where you grew up.

redstorm72

I don't care where anyone comes from, there should be a universal truth in that "hurting people is wrong". If that's not true for your or other peoples cultures, then I have completely lost faith in the human race.

Yes hurting people is wrong, so don't commit adultery. You know how it is, say no evil hear no evil.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

How so?

hartsickdiscipl

Well you say that adulters should be stoned to death, but then you say that human's don't have the right to decide each other's fate. You can't have it both ways, so which is it?

You're forgetting what my faith is based on. It's based on the idea that higher beings gave us the laws laid down in the Bible and other holy books. That being said, if God tells us to stone the adulterer, he has decided their fate.. not me.

I'd rather God just kill them himself, but I'll follow his commands if he tells me to do it.

Ask yourself: "what would Jesus do?"

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="bloodling"]

Let's just make a new system so everyone goes to heaven. Let's punish people according to what God says. Wonderful.

bloodling

How do you define "heaven?" I personally believe that we've misinterpreted it for centuries. It doesn't have to mean anything other than outer space, or maybe a different dimension. I guess we'll find out.

We'll never find out (in my opinion), but that's not my point. What is the point of punishing people according to what's written in a holy book? I am 100% confident that holy books have nothing to do with God because God doesn't exist. I certainly can't prove that, but you can't prove me wrong either, so wanting laws to be based off this for absolutely no reason other than belief is something I will never understand.

I submit this- If at any point in our lifetimes highly-advanced E.T.'s are accepted to be real, and that they are visiting our planet.. There is your proof of God. I believe the Bible and other ancient holy writings are about more advanced beings visiting us from space or other dimensions.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] Then I'm coming to blow up your nude beaches. You see how that works? When you leave these people you don't accept their behavior, you simply let them evolve in the same way that you evolved. Meaning that, the change will come from within. Just look at both Iraq and Afghanistan, and I stress on Afghanistan. You are trying too hard to feed your ideals and morals to them, and it seems fruitless to me.GazaAli

I don't care where anyone comes from, there should be a universal truth in that "hurting people is wrong". If that's not true for your or other peoples cultures, then I have completely lost faith in the human race.

Yes hurting people is wrong, so don't commit adultery. You know how it is, say no evil hear no evil.

If hurting people is wrong then stoning them to death is wrong (as that's pretty damn hurtful).

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Well you say that adulters should be stoned to death, but then you say that human's don't have the right to decide each other's fate. You can't have it both ways, so which is it?

worlock77

You're forgetting what my faith is based on. It's based on the idea that higher beings gave us the laws laid down in the Bible and other holy books. That being said, if God tells us to stone the adulterer, he has decided their fate.. not me.

I'd rather God just kill them himself, but I'll follow his commands if he tells me to do it.

Ask yourself: "what would Jesus do?"

He would follow God's law and do what he was told to do.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] Then I'm coming to blow up your nude beaches. You see how that works? When you leave these people you don't accept their behavior, you simply let them evolve in the same way that you evolved. Meaning that, the change will come from within. Just look at both Iraq and Afghanistan, and I stress on Afghanistan. You are trying too hard to feed your ideals and morals to them, and it seems fruitless to me.hartsickdiscipl

I don't care where anyone comes from, there should be a universal truth in that "hurting people is wrong". If that's not true for your or other peoples cultures, then I have completely lost faith in the human race.

Sorry, but that's not the universal truth that we go by in the western world. We kill people by the thousands in wars, and we execute criminals in many states. We're no better.

I don't agree with either. Executions should be outlawed in all states and War should only be a last resort. However, in the case of war, at least most modern nations only target armed combatants and not civilians.

[QUOTE="testfactor888"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Absolutely. Just not necessarily the type being practiced in parts of the world today. But true rule by God, yes.

hartsickdiscipl

That's the beauty of it. I won't do anything with them. God will decide. Humans don't have the right to decide each other's fates.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

I don't care where anyone comes from, there should be a universal truth in that "hurting people is wrong". If that's not true for your or other peoples cultures, then I have completely lost faith in the human race.

worlock77

Yes hurting people is wrong, so don't commit adultery. You know how it is, say no evil hear no evil.

If hurting people is wrong then stoning them to death is wrong (as that's pretty damn hurtful).

The intial wrong and violation of the marriage arrangement has to be answered.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="testfactor888"] What would you do with the people who do not believe in god than in your theocracytocool340

That's the beauty of it. I won't do anything with them. God will decide. Humans don't have the right to decide each other's fates.

Read my reply to the other poster that thought the same thing.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

You're forgetting what my faith is based on. It's based on the idea that higher beings gave us the laws laid down in the Bible and other holy books. That being said, if God tells us to stone the adulterer, he has decided their fate.. not me.

I'd rather God just kill them himself, but I'll follow his commands if he tells me to do it.

hartsickdiscipl

Ask yourself: "what would Jesus do?"

He would follow God's law and do what he was told to do.

Hence when he turned the mob back from stoning the adultress huh?