Morals without God?

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Wrong.

Observe ants, birds, fish, wolves, etc.

Essentially ANY social species exhibits something which can be seen as a "moral code". And they don't worship gods.

Morality isn't a result of gods, it is a result of SOCIETY (or...a prerequisite to society). And that means a WHOLE lot, since morality then becomes a basic survival mechanism, like pooping or eating.

MrGeezer

[QUOTE="Logan1616"]You can be moral without being religious.Darkainious

If this were true it is only because you can't say "follow my moral code or burn for all eternity" without religion. You are stuck with the much less scary: "Follow this moral code because it is the foundation of the society that had made all the benefits of this society possible." The former appeals to fear, while the latter appeals to reason. Unfortunately fear seems to get much more response than reason in mankind.

Edit: The religious argument for morals also gives a much greater sense of superiority in those that adhere to it. Religion basically gives any dumbass (note: not all religious people are dumbasses) license to say I'm right and you're wrong, without having to prove any of it outside of quoting a book that it takes as fact by 'faith'.

Morals are for the weak.

Bluestorm-Kalas

Surely the opposite. The immoral are stamped out in society.

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]It's obvious if no proof exists then there can't be any proof that proof does not exist..StopThePresses

The bible depicts things that are outrageous by todays moral standards. So yes. we might even have better morals

I believe that God is the one who puts the sense of self-control into us; without God, there is no good._Marisa_

And without Satan, there is no bad. There can't be good without bad. Therefore, Satan is in heaven.

[QUOTE="_Marisa_"]I believe that God is the one who puts the sense of self-control into us; without God, there is no good.bloodling

And without Satan, there is no bad. There can't be good without bad. Therefore, Satan is in heaven.

I'm not going to say this to anyone in particular, but when you're in heaven, what are your morals? The "purest" form of morals as written the Bible? If so, you'd be a completely different person.

I'm not going to say this to anyone in particular, but when you're in heaven, what are your morals? The "purest" form of morals as written the Bible? If so, you'd be a completely different person.

bloodling

[QUOTE="StopThePresses"][QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]It's obvious if no proof exists then there can't be any proof that proof does not exist..Xx_Hopeless_xX

Seeing as God does not exist, morals must exist without without a God.

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"][QUOTE="StopThePresses"] It is obvious, so why did you say it in the very same post that you criticized me for such a claim (that I didn't even make anyway)?StopThePresses

It always makes me wonder what some people would be capable of if they just "gave up" their religion. When you realize morals derive from our humanity and community, and not from outside source, they become something of value, something that gives us a reason to be nice to other people. If it were just for the fear of God and punishment... someone who loses their faith would undoubtedly become a very bad person.

I'm an atheist. I inherently feel bad when someone suffers from misfortune and I have a desire to help people in need. These were not learned behaviors, I've just always felt this way, no Bible necessary.

It always makes me wonder what some people would be capable of if they just "gave up" their religion. When you realize morals derive from our humanity and community, and not from outside source, they become something of value, something that gives us a reason to be nice to other people. If it were just for the fear of God and punishment... someone who loses their faith would undoubtedly become a very bad person.

foxhound_fox

Not very much seeing as the most heinous things known to man has been done in the name of god before.. Religion hardly ever dictates morality.. In fact if people notice that the countries with a national religion and religious laws both now and historically are far more brutal and immoral then its secular counterparts by and large.

It always makes me wonder what some people would be capable of if they just "gave up" their religion. When you realize morals derive from our humanity and community, and not from outside source, they become something of value, something that gives us a reason to be nice to other people. If it were just for the fear of God and punishment... someone who loses their faith would undoubtedly become a very bad person.

foxhound_fox

Yet there are many who lose their faith and turn out ok.