MSNBC: The Mainstream Media and ourselves to blame

In 2020 he'll have another wet dream about the success of an online petition to change the President-Elect.

@judaspete said:

I'm glad that they are doing some soul searching, but there is a factor they left out here. If you look at the popular vote, Donald Trump got about the same numbers that Republicans generally get. Democrats just stayed home.

NeverTrumpers were full of crap and come to vote for him in the end.

Bernie or Bust folks stuck to their guns and didn't.

We liberals will repeatedly punch ourselves in the dick to make a statement. Sad.

Red camp lost some it's votes for another ring wing party i.e. libertarian party with Gary Johnson which normally has about 1 percent of the vote but for 2016 election, it reached 4 percent.

Unlike countries like Australia, USA doesn't have preferential voting system which minimises lost votes.

We know. Its not a mystery, we dont need to get Shaggy and Scooby on the job. We have voting demographics.

@ronvalencia said:

@judaspete said:

I'm glad that they are doing some soul searching, but there is a factor they left out here. If you look at the popular vote, Donald Trump got about the same numbers that Republicans generally get. Democrats just stayed home.

NeverTrumpers were full of crap and come to vote for him in the end.

Bernie or Bust folks stuck to their guns and didn't.

We liberals will repeatedly punch ourselves in the dick to make a statement. Sad.

Red camp lost some it's votes for another ring wing party i.e. libertarian party with Gary Johnson which normally has about 1 percent of the vote but for 2016 election, it reached 4 percent.

Unlike countries like Australia, USA doesn't have preferential voting system which minimises lost votes.

Yet we still won the popular Vote. America chose Hillary, not Trump.

If USA has preferential voting system, Libertarian party's right wing swing votes (4 percent) wouldn't have been wasted.

Australia's preferential voting system minimises minor party's lost votes with secondary votes.

My point, you wanted to change USA vote system which covers small state vs big state issues and I countered it with another voting system that factors in minor party's votes.

@ronvalencia: All we need is a united voting system. We need to make every vote count. The American people voted for Hillary so Hillary should be our next President.

So, this is a really bad way of looking at it and it shows lessons not learned.

1. The voting populous was split between the two. We can get into give or takes, but the reality is it was as close to 50/50 as elections can get.

2. A larger population of registered voters could not vote for either of these people. That should be what you're focusing on. A demographic that proved they will vote if you give them something good to vote for.

3. Lets not forget how much of the Hillary voter populous was simply the #nevertrump people. The people who didnt care what Hillary said or did, they just could not stomach Trump. IMO this is one of the most disgusting voting populations out there. The people who could not name five bills Hillary has supported or wants to support, but proclaims that she was a must over Trump.

4. So again, Hillary lost because she was incompetent, a fraud, a criminal and a corporatist. The only people to blame for this loss is her and the DNC.

Just like Rush said, the mass media being influenced by friends within the Democratic Party and Imo just flat out plotting to forcefully put Hillary in a better light with bs polls to appear to others that everyone was voting Hillary.

@kod: We should focus on the facts, the American people voted for Hillary, not Trump.

But see here we go. Selective attention. Not listening or paying attention to the facts. Everything listed was a fact. How about we learn our lesson and pay attention to the reality of the situation? Trump only got the same votes the GOP gets every four years, no more, no less. It was Hillary who failed to get the votes the democrats get. Why did it happen? How could she be completely ignored by progressives? Because she was horrible.

P.S., while youre sitting here continuing to repeat this silliness. Im watching as the TPP has been killed since Trump was voted on. A bill he didnt not support but a bill that Hillary LLLLOOOOVVVVEEEEDDDD. A bill described by many economists as "giving corporations nationhood status"

@kod: Hillary didnt fail, she won Americas vote. It was our system that failed us. An outdated system that we will fight to change. We shall restore power to the people and make every single vote count.

We will now support Progressives 100%. I thought a liberal movement would be enough in todays age, but clearly we were wrong. Liberalism is dead. We will no longer support it. Can join us or not, we dont care.

Without a preferential voting system, a person who voted for a minor party would be wasted. Your voting model wouldn't deliver "make every vote count".

USA's current voting system was design with small state vs large state issues.

Australia's voting system is the version 3.0 from UK (version 1.0) and USA (version 2.0) vote systems and the newest vote system with lessons learnt from UK's and USA's older voting system. If Australia has USA's +300 million population it would have been another western super power.

@ronvalencia: Yes it would. Every single vote would count and be united. So if you voted third party, your vote would count to a untied tally across all American States. We would count every single State and say 33% voted for Independent candidate in a total united vote.

You keep repeating the same thing, every time people proved you wrong! You're just going in circles, and that's NOT progress.

@FireEmblem_Man: No one has proved me wrong, they just dont agree with giving the power to the people. They want each State to decide what they do which each States votes and dont want them united.

And that fine for them to believe. But im going for Progressive Democracy.

You're spewing communism now. And you have been proven wrong every time!

@FireEmblem_Man: What? Im fighting for true Democracy. State your case we can debate it.

With preferential voting system, vote ranking is done by the individual person.

An example for swing right wing voter

1. Libertarian

2. Republican

3. ???

An example for swing left wing voter

1. Green

2. Democrats

3. ???

If selection 1 fails, person's vote switches to option 2. This system maximises person's vote and minimises lost votes. Filling in selection 2/3/etc would be optional.

The goal: minimise the 2 party system dominance. Australia's current federal government is an alliance of two right wing parties e.g. liberal right wing and national right wing with socialist elements (e.g. looking after farmers and non-big cities interest).

It's unlikely USA will change it's voting system with lessons learnt from newer western voting systems.

Yep. Pretty much.

No good. We want a united voting system. We want every single vote to count for who they want to vote for. If 5 people in Florida vote Democratic, we want it added to the 5 Democrats who voted in Georgia. Add all the American States and territories together to get the united total. The party with the highest united total wins. Every single vote counts.

I mean..... we knew all these things going into this election, but it didnt stop from people voting for the clearly wrong person. It didnt stop them from continuing to vote for the wrong person even after we saw evidence of election fraud by Hillary in nearly every single state. If the goal was to change a screwed up system, was did we not start with the DNC and Hillary destroying the democratic process and screwing voters and Bernie? What, now all the sudden its a big deal?

It couldn't have been a big deal when we could have potentially had the best president that any of us would ever witness, and instead people turned off their brains because "woman"? This stuff was slapping people in the face during the primaries and too many people went with vagina being the most important thing on the table for a freaking president... sorry if i dont have much faith in the decision making of those people.

Again, USA's current system was a condition for smaller states to join the union. Change the condition for joining the union = needs a new federal system.

USA's current system promotes the two party system and your POV continues this flaws.

My point, you wanted to change USA voting system (which covers small state vs big state issues) and I countered it with another voting system that factors in minor party's votes.

The system would have robbed Bernie of the American vote too. America voted for Hillary, not Trump.

You wanted to change the current system because HRC lost... America also voted to swing towards the right side of politics.

Sorry, I'm not going to support the continuation "The Establishment" that supports a certain gulf state's interest.

@ronvalencia: I want to change the system so that every single vote counts. I want a true Democracy. America voted for Hillary, not Trump.

No it wouldn't have. You really need to stop this and pay attention to what happened becasue youve touted this so much, that you're clearly unaware of the events that took place.

Whats so hard to understand about this, people loved Bernie. People didnt like Hillary, so they didnt vote or didnt vote for her.

In every single poll Hillary was in the margin of error, either behind or ahead of Trump.

While Bernie, DESTROYED him and was often 10 points out of the margin of error (which is a landslide victory). All of those people that Obama got, that Hillary did not, would have voted for Bernie. Libertarians and conservatives even liked Bernie. I live in FL and every single person i know who voted for Trump, didnt want Trump they wanted Bernie. You know why in those polls Bernie destroyed Trump? Because those voters who supported Bernie, didnt support Hillary and didnt vote for Hillary.

Had Bernie been the DNCs representative, it would have been the most lopsided victory of all time. He had the support of the working class, something Clinton FAILED at. He had the support of progressives, something Clinton FAILED at. He had zero hidden emails showing corruption and collusion at the highest level. There was zero, not one, scandal around him. He was the most popular DNC candidate of all time, above Obama. And he was trusted by the public, they believed him. Jill, probably would have dropped out had he been the DNCs ticket. Which means no more green party vote and most likely, theyd allllll go to him. By all estimates that 8 million more votes Obama got, would have been half of what Bernie would have gotten. He was looking at 15-20 million MORE votes than Hillary got and we knew this. We knew this from day one.

@kod: Hillary defeated Bernie by having more Americans vote for her. Then she had more Americans vote for her over Trump.

Again, America also voted to swing towards the right side of politics. Your true Democracy is flawed.

@ronvalencia: I just want every single vote to count. I want a united tally, a true Democracy. True Democracy is not flawed. The system we have now is outdated and flawed.

The American people voted for Hillary, not Trump. I want the American peoples vote to count.

Your "first pass the post" model is flawed. It doesn't count voter's intent who voted for the minor parties.

@ronvalencia: I didn't know you watch The Rebel? Great news network!

@ronvalencia: It does count those who voted for a monitory party. It would unite their votes on a National scale. It would encourage more to vote for a minority party as it would unite their votes giving them a more fair and just voting system.

Your parties 5 votes in Florida would be united with your parties 5 votes in South Carolina.

No.

Hillary defeated Bernie by using voter suppression, by limited debates (because he destroyed her in every debate and continued to gain a massive amount of votes after every debate) and ensuring her people in the media, simply didnt talk about him.

We know what their plan was, they literally copied the old GOP plan of voter suppression, we have them talking about it in writing. We know they were instructing people at polling booths to give Bernie supporters the wrong forms. We know they were closing down booths in area's that just happened to massively support Bernie. We know they stole... literally stole, delegate votes from Bernie.

Just look at how much youre unaware of that took place during the democratic primaries. The list is a thousand things long that we know for a fact happened, its not up question, its not a conspiracy, we have it all in black and white and its not even denied by Hillary... thats what makes it most insulting.. they had to replace two heads of the DNC because of it. No one wanted to vote for Hillary because of this, if you knew what was going on, why would you go out and then support this woman? You wouldnt. And they didnt.

Mainstream Polls that shown HRC land slide victory over Trump was also flawed.

If minor parties was factored in, HRC would have lost since there's a swing toward right wing parties. Changing the current system has a double edge sword.

@kod: She did nothing illegal. The party is allowed to discuss what and about what they want to. You can believe conspiracies all you want. They won't change the facts.

@ronvalencia: I have no swing system. All votes would be united on a National scale with the party they voted for. Swinging votes is a flawed system.

Thats because they used models from 08 and 2012 as a base for projection. They assumed the progressives would come out and vote for Hillary, when they didnt. But they would have for Bernie. Bernie had the highest percentage of any democrat of independent support, the highest voting demographic of all voters. But Hillary didnt get those votes, she didnt get that support... she sure she changed the rules and suppressed it during the primaries though.

not going to lie, watching MSNBC on election night was pretty entertaining. Hearing the tone of Rachel Maddow's voice change, her arrogant elite confidence degrade to defensive snide commentary and finally to silence. Hearing Chris Mathews, who for the past few months has been saying occasional we should be taking Trump seriously (while everyone laughed), finally being vindicated and essentially go on a "I TOLD YOU SO" rant for an hour was kind of funny.

And the pollsters...they should be hanged.

I mean, I know error is part of the job, but...god DAMN, son!

No.

Its extremely illegal for the DNC to coordinate with superPAC. Something we know they did under her direction.

Its extremely illegal to instruct polling booths to intentionally hand out incorrect ballots.

Its EXTREMELY illegal for her to take money from other countries.

There is not much we discovered in the Emails and even before the EMails, that is not extremely illegal. Its why in every other Email we see "hey, make sure we dont get caught doing this or we are screwed" and its why she had her private server. Without it, those emails would have been subject to the freedom of information act, thus available to the public. EMails the public only has now because she was hacked 70 times.

Oh yah, the simple act of diverting emails going through the NSA to that private sever is in fact.... again.... eeeexxxxttttreeeemmmmeeeellllyyy illegal and its why the 5 people who set it up for her, had to be given immunity., because they committed very illegal acts, in fact treasonous acts, under her instruction.

@kod: Again mate, either prove your statements or keep your conspiracies to yourself. I dont have time to deal with conspiracy theories. You want to arrest Hillary? Go right ahead. But your Trump aint gone do shat. Hes done got what he wants, he wont be wasting time going after Hillary no more.

Bernie would have likely crushed Trump, I can tell just from gut instinct. Watch this campaign video from bernie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSRUmRYrRLY

Its very uplifting and counters trumps message of hate perfectly. Not only this, he likely would have gotten wide spread support from both democrats and republicans in the election, mainly because people would have been given a DECENT alternative choice.

Bernie would have been one of the GREATEST US presidents of all time. I am extremely pissed off that the DNC shut him down and didn't give him the proper support. I am even annoyed at Obama for not supporting Bernie just because Hilary is a good friend of his. He should never have let loyalty get in the way of presidential duties, now because of that his legacy is being trampled on by that monkey trump.

UG, this mantra is so tiring.

Hearing people say they are informed and wanting to take part in political debates and conversations, then have no idea about something that has been plastered all over the place.

https://theintercept.com/2016/10/18/hillary-superpac-coordination/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/julian-assange-clinton-foundation-isis-same-money-saudi-arabia-qatar-funding-a7397211.html

http://usuncut.com/politics/election-issues-primary/

http://heavy.com/news/2016/05/california-voter-suppression-election-fraud-primary-lawsuit-examples-photos-registration-changes/

http://nypost.com/2016/10/12/emails-show-hillary-has-the-media-in-her-pocket/

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-09/new-email-leak-reveals-unprecedented-coordination-between-hillary-campaign-and-press

I was going to post NYTimes and WashPo links but they are all for subscribers. "Ironic" given that those are two of the outlets she regularly instructed.

Not sure how you of all people can be entertained by that or find it funny. I think our current predicament is rather serious. The pollsters did f*ck this up pretty good though.

Point me to the proof, cause i see nothing wrong. People having issues with voter registrations? Ok, happens a lot. Bet they got it fixed. Hillary talking with her Democratic Campaign and coordinating? Ok, thats legal and very wise.

Bernie is an outsider, of course the Democratic Party doesnt want him. But they did nothing illegal. It would be unwise for them to do so.

Bring me proof and ill allow you to arrest her.

I cant do your reading for you buddy. I know spending five minutes reading is too much for some people but, these are things that cannot be summed up in a tweet.

You wanted sources, there's sources. If you want more, you now know what to look up.

@kod: But ive been reading, i see no proof. You want to arrest Hillary with such weak evidence, go right ahead. I could care less. Matter of fact, call Trump, send him your evidence and ask him to arrest her. I grant you my permission. Shes all yours.

Bernie wouldn't have been picked as a candidate. The problem is that the democrat party is run by big corporations, they wanted a candidate that would behave as their puppet. Most of Bernies policys would have meant that the pharmaceutical industry loses profit, it would have meant the private health insurance companies would have lost profit, it would have meant the rich 1% would have had much much higher taxes. Bernie wanted to bring down the incarceration rates for youth, and take people out of poverty. He wanted to build a better country. Unfortunately though the rich bastards running the country are running class warfare against everyone else, to keep us poor and working long hours for low pay as their modern day slaves.

Micheal Bloomberg, a billionaire democrat was scared shitless of Bernie. He threatened to enter the race if Bernie and Trump were the last 2 candidates. That would have meant a landslide victory for Bernie and Bloomberg could see the writing on the wall. Of course Bloomberg didn't mind Clinton, he can manipulate her easily.

In a way I am GLAD the democrats lost to republicans. It teaches them a lesson that the people are the ultimate voice in deciding who the president is, not these big corporations with their dumb media manipulation. I have no doubt that Trump is a bigot, but he is probably as much of a bigot as anyone else in the US. The things I didn't like about him are his policy's on energy that are going to screw up global warming regulations and the fact that his campaign has divided the country like never before.

This election has taught us one thing, no longer is it important for television to win an election. Social media can spread the truth much much faster and wider than ever before. It is a great tool to fight the rich bastards in power trying to manipulate the public.

given the "choice" of humor or tragedy, I will force myself to find humor in most things. Gallows humor, I suppose you can call it?

I don't really think it is funny, that's how I cope. I'm not really optimistic or open-minded about it, that's just how I deal with the suddenly-large amount of friends and acquaintances I have that are Trump supporters/were closet Trump supporters.

I'm literally 20 minutes away from a whole mess of burning cars, rioting people, and a whole bunch of awesome angsty goodness and I'd love to go join in but that'd be a whole lot worse than getting some laughs out of it.

I do acknowledge it is serious, believe me. Very, very serious. I hope whatever plans my state of California has in the works prove to be effective and quick.

Uh... Michael Bloomberg left the Democratic Party to the Republicans and even later became an independent on the Republican side. Just thought I'd point that out.