MSNBC: The Mainstream Media and ourselves to blame

The Democratic party lost touch with their base. White working class voters felt disenfranchised by both parties and Trump represented the outsider, the non-washington elite. He made bold promises about protecting jobs and trade. Yes, he is unlikely to either be able to deliver on any of those promises or be the true outsider they want, but it resonated with them.

Secondly, I think that the elites in the democratic party have spent the last several years painting the white population as villains in this country. They reference them as being ignorant, racist, bigoted, etc. etc. Again, some people certainly are, but most are not. Many of these people voted for Barack Obama in the 2008 and 2012 election. Many of these people continue to view our current president favorably - given him well over a 50% approval rating.

The Electoral College was the rules of the game when everyone got in. They all understood what they needed to do to win, under the rules in place when the contest started. Hillary couldn't win, playing by the rules of the game as written.

Now you want to change the rules, after the final gun, to get the outcome you want. You're like the football team that scores 2 touchdowns, but loses to the team that kicks 5 field goals, and after the game, whines that touchdowns should count 8, not 7, so we should have won.

Will you quit whining about losing if we send you a Participation Trophy? Will that stop your meltdown there little snowflake?

@collegeboy64: The Progressive movement will never stop. We will push harder than ever before. We just want the will of the people to become reality. We want true Democracy. We will stop at nothing to achieve our goals.

You don't live in a democracy. You live in a republic of states. Be prepared to be very frustrated for a very long time trying to transform the USA in to a democracy.

Way to waste your time and effort. Maybe start helping people with public service instead? What you espouse isn't helping anything.

@collegeboy64: This we know and we dont like it. We will now fight for true Democracy. We want every vote to count. We want to stand united as one Nation, not as individual States. The Progressive movement is prepared for whatever struggles may come.

Fools should be down at the DNC or the mass media outlets protesting and tearing them up, they are the morons who lost the election for you with an unelectable person like hillary.

You followed a cult, now you're sore about it.

At least you are honest about what you want.

I prefer a constitutional republic, where a majority vote cannot eliminate minority rights.

You apparently prefer the mob rule of pure democracy.

I wish you peace of mind as you cope with your utter failure to fundamentally transform this great nation from its founding principles in to a mobocracy.

@doozie78: America voted for Hillary, not Trump. Our fight is with those who suppress our will of one united vote.

@collegeboy64: Yes, we want majority to rule. True democracy makes each and every single vote count equally. Power to the people is all we ask. We no longer want to be suppressed and divided, we wish to stand united.

Hopefully you realize that the MEDIA SUPPRESSED AND DIVIDED YOU, not the electoral college, and certainly not Donald Trump. Lay blame where it's due, with the media and yourselves.

@doozie78: We dont follow the media. But they are free to join our movement if theyd like. We follow the will of the American people.

Where were you fools asking for change when the system was working for you?

@Solaryellow: We did the same, open your eyes. We protested and voiced our opinion every single time weve won the American vote but Electors voted against the will of the people.

Lol. Hey everyone, check it out. The stalwart trustworthy media convinced the regressives they are progressive.

How's that for comedy?

the media and the corrupt billionaires are still up to their dirty tricks. The bastards should all be rounded up and sent to a concentration camp to do hard labor. The progressive moment, the ONLY progressive movement is the one being pushed by Bernie Sanders and his legion of doom. The media will try to divide them, paint them as communist/socialists, whatever they can do to serve the interests of their corporate masters. Bernie needs to stay strong and even though I don't like trump for the way he won, they both share common goals and need to work together to fix the shit hole of corruption as it is.

First order of business is to overturn citizens united, take that and shove it back up george soross/koch brothers ass, round up all the supreme court judges who voted for it and throw them into maximum security prison.

2nd order of business, make politics grass roots again, purge it of ALL corporate funded money, any special interests, lobbying. Make the funding public. I don't care if they have to raise taxes to do so, make sure that the politicians that are elected serve the public and not the rich bastards.

Hopefully no little girls will show up to scare Bernie into running away from the stage and never coming back. If that happens we will never get the chance to stand in line for toilet paper.

Say what you want about him, but the man is brilliant. He effectively exposed the dirty underbelly of american politics to the whole world. He endorsed Hilary, and people still picked Trump. If Bernie didn't endorse Hilary, the democrats and the corporations would all be blaming the old man for the loss of the election, giving them an excuse to go back to "business as usual". Instead he swallowed his pride and joined the enemy all for the greater good of making sure Trump would never get elected. Of course that didn't work out. But now the progressive movement has gained a ton of strength and is waging battle over control over the DNC against the corporate interests. Either way, its a win win for Americans everywhere. Here is an article going into more details: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-empire-strikes-back-231259

I think the vast majority of American agree with the social policy of the democrats, but they are completely out of touch economically. People with good jobs care about things like the environment. People who are unemployed or have a crappy job want to hear what you plan on doing to find them a better job. Telling coal miners that you are going to create jobs with green energy is a waste of time. They aren't that stupid. The other candidate is telling them he's going to relax regulation on coal plants to make them competitive in the market.

Don't you all find this amazing? Despite every media outlet, even Fox, predicting Hillary's win. Despite all the money her party has received in endorsements, Trump still won. That's our Republic at work people.

A family paying more than $1000 per month for health insurance doesn't want to hear about the good things Obamacare has done. They want to hear about how you are going to make their cost at least somewhat reasonable. Trump has no plan, but he does plan on getting rid of Obamacare. Change at least has some chance at success. Sticking with the current system has no chance of success.

Earlier this week in an interview he said his plan would entail keeping the restriction on discrimination due to pre-existing conditions as well as the ability to stay on your parents' plan until you're 26.

His replacement is starting to sound an awful lot like Obamacare.

the only way you fix obamacare, the only real solution to fix it is universal health care. It will bring down the costs for the average person much much lower than it currently is. Yes taxes will go up slightly, but health care insurance will be eliminated. Canadians overall pay the same amount of taxes as americans on average, yet get free healthcare. Private insurance will always try to make profits and grow, which is counter to the goal of the average joe who wants affordable health care. In this case you can ONLY choose one or the other: You go for free health care or you go for private insurance healthcare (obamacare). Obama busted his ass in 2011 to ram through free health care but the republicans obstructed it in full when they regained the congress.

What is a true democracy? I have never seen one. The Greek states did not have one. Only 15 percent of them voted on anything of significance. We live in a Democratic Republic. You cannot have a full democracy without dissolving the republic, that is the entire purpose.

@hillelslovak: Fack the republic.

Then you are saying do away with America. It does not seem like you want to fight for this country like you say you do.

@hillelslovak: We shall progress America into true Democracy.

He did say he has a winning personality. ..lol.. :P

Specifics, please. A true democracy would need to be on a local level. There are many big problems to solve with this system. How many people constitutes a voting community, or district? Is it based on land mass or population? Would a rural community that lives over 200 square miles have the same electoral power as say, a gated community in Connecticut with the same population within 5 square miles, yet far more capital and power? Where does representation fit in then? In a nation of over 350 million, how would anything get done on a national scale, when everything is at a community level?

I mean, this stuff made sense when you had a few million in city states, with many villages and communities participating in many ways. I dont see how that scales out to a nation of 350 million.

@hillelslovak: There would be not electoral system. Every vote would count as an equal vote. Even US territories would have an equal vote.

No electoral system? So no elections?

@hillelslovak: We will hold elections. But no electoral college system. Every single vote would be equal. No vote would count more than the other. We will give the power to the people.

How is it equal exactly? The votes in California, Texas and New York would mean far more than those of Maine, Rhode Island, Oregon etc. Would this equality not favor, by it's very nature, people in Urban areas over people in rural areas? How, without an electoral college, which warts and all, how would farmers in Nebraska have equal representation as say, a Wall Street Banker, who lives in a much larger population state?

Remember, it is not enough to point out the flaws in a system. Replacement must be provided as well, and must be based on factual evidence or historical precedent.

Like you just admitted, you did squat when the system was working in your favor you only got riled up (temporarily) when you didn't get your way. Suck it up, Sunshine. You lost and lost big and more importantly, you lost in a legal election.

@hillelslovak: Each persons vote would count equally no matter where you lived. All votes would be added together to form one united tally. So 5 votes in Florida, 5 in Georgia, and 5 in Puerto Rico would total 15 to your party. Your vote would be united across the whole Nation.

iandizion713 seems to have a very tenuous grasp on our system, why it exists, why its applied the way it is and that we are not democracy, we are a democratic republic.

Popular vote would lead to a one party system, quickly, very quickly.

While the electoral college is not perfect, it really just needs some tweaks.

The biggest problem we have are these half private half public parties and only two of them. The reality is if you want to actually address a problem with voting then it would be to move for tax paid campaigns on at least six parties.

@kod: Thats exactly what the Progressive movement wants. A majority rule.

No.

The "progressive movement" wants options that all have an equal chance. Whether you like who they pick is irrelevant, but this is necessary to avoid what we've seen happen. The point is to maintain a democratic republic that goes untainted and not corrupted by outside or insane forces.

@kod: Progressives want both. They want true democracy.

Good god man, stop arguing with people or attempting to respond before thinking.

"progressives" generally dont give a shit about a "true democracy" because that is not the issue. "Progressives" tend to not take issue with the electoral college in the way youre trying to convey because while we recognize its not perfect, we are educated enough in history to know what happens with a "true democracy" and again, it leads to a one party system, which is just as devastating as our corporate two party system.

We are a democratic republic, not a democracy. We are a democratic republic to avoid one party systems.

@kod: Yes, we want a one party system to rule if thats what the American people decide. And no its doesnt create a one party system. A true Democracy would create more parties. Other parties would be united on a National level and not have to stand divided. It would encourage more people to support their parties without fear of their vote not counting.

Then youre not a progressive, youre a fascist.

Lets not forget that just yesterday you were on here talking about all the mistakes you made with your support, and how there was tons you didnt understand and recognize.... you didnt figure it all out in a day and judging by how you respond to everyone here, it would do you good to shut up and listen for ten minutes.

@kod: Sorry, i dont follow you.

Except for the fact that certain states like Florida have more population. If the politicians want to win the popular vote, they will campaign in the states with the most people, and neglecting the ones with fewer. How is that any different than today?

@hillelslovak: Again, as i stated countless times, each vote would be equal. If your population is 5 million, you get 5 million votes.

Then states with more people matter far more than the smaller ones, bigger counties would matter more than smaller ones, urban areas would matter more than rural and suburban areas, politicians will campaign in those high population areas exclusively, and there goes equal representation under the law. Explain how that is a desirable outcome at all, especially considering the pathetic voting turnout we have in america each election.

@hillelslovak: Use the internet then. If everyones vote was equal, and no persons vote was worth more than the other...it would encourage more voters.

Every single persons vote would count. Majority would rule. Power to the people.

The media's biggest part I feel was undermining Bernie Sanders in the primary, and it wasn't just MSNBC but mainstream media as well, they all minimalized the impact of Bernie Sanders, his organic grass roots enthusiasm and momentum, and instead backed the presumptive establishment candidate. But, the signs were all there in the beginning that Bernie could have carried the states she lost, and could had a dramatic impact on the down ballot races, because he resonated with many of those that voted for Trump, not on his policies necessarily but the desire to stir shit up with a candidate outside establishment politics. They kept pushing the message before and during the primaries that she was going to be the candidate, and kept saying Bernie had no shot, that the super delegates were in the bag. That has a tremendous impact on how people voted in the primaries.

Even now many liberal pundits are trying to blame third parties, and that's funny too because the Gary Johnson vote would have gone to Trump and the Gill Stein votes to Clinton, he would have won even more states. That's a bullshit argument that deflects blame from the party and the press. In the end though, I think the one unforeseen issue was that many of those Gary Johnson voters ended up voting for Trump instead. He was polling high as 8-10% when Trump was down in polls but during election Gary Johnson only got like 1-2% at best in many areas, and that was the bump I think pushed Trump's numbers up.

Nonetheless, best case scenario with Clinton winning would be they'd of had a do-nothing Congress because they couldn't pick up seats with her effect on down ballot races, again that's something the DNC and liberal pundits that pushed her centrist establishment agenda and sidelined the progressive base really had the greatest impact in the down ballot races. Bernie would have not only won, but been able to gain back control of House and Senate. They blew it, and they need to realize why.

Please show me a single study that proves this claim, or a single precedent in history in which a democratic Republic performed this.

@hillelslovak: Its theory. When you give people equality and fairness, they usually participate more.

Is that a scientific theory ?