Muslim Woman poses for Playboy, Receives Death Threats

[QUOTE="Kh1ndjal"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="Kh1ndjal"] YellowOneKinobi

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="Kh1ndjal"] Kh1ndjal

[QUOTE="Kh1ndjal"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] YellowOneKinobi

In that case, I'm having trouble reconciling how on the one hand, Islamic law strictly follows the Koran word for word, but then other parts are supposedly ignored (like killing anyone that is a non-muslim)? Who determines which 'rules' are to be strictly enforced?

Hi YellowOneKinobi,

Where does it say in the Qur'an that Muslims should kill all non-muslims?

[QUOTE="Kh1ndjal"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] YellowOneKinobi

I'll edit this once i find a link.

EDITED:o :

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193). Link (yeah i know Answer.com :? i couldn't find anything with a better layout.)

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="Kh1ndjal"] women are required to cover everything except the face, hands and feet in public. men are required to cover from the navel to the bottom part of their knees in public. this i'm sure is very clear cut and undisputed. similarly, most punishments are spelled out clearly (punishment for murder is execution, for example) and are undisputed while some extremely rare things are tricky (for example, is software piracy legal in islamic law? most islamic scholars i know strongly discourage it). punishment is a generic term i used, perhaps more in a psychological sense than in a strictly legal sense to illustrate a point, because i honestly don't know. some things are required to be punished by law while others will be punished in the afterlife. i am not an islamic scholar and what i have learned about islam is mostly practical things that are important to myself or things i questioned/wanted to learn about. also, proper islamic scholars tell you EXACTLY the reasoning and explanation behind laws in ways that i never could. important note: quran is not the only word of authority. hadith (words of the Prophet) are equally important and there is a proper procedure to validate each hadith (which im not familiar with apart from existence and general idea).xfxfxfanatikx

In that case, I'm having trouble reconciling how on the one hand, Islamic law strictly follows the Koran word for word, but then other parts are supposedly ignored (like killing anyone that is a non-muslim)? Who determines which 'rules' are to be strictly enforced?

Hi YellowOneKinobi,

Where does it say in the Qur'an that Muslims should kill all non-muslims?

· [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

· [9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

· [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

· [5.33] The punishment of those against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

· [8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

[QUOTE="xfxfxfanatikx"]

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

In that case, I'm having trouble reconciling how on the one hand, Islamic law strictly follows the Koran word for word, but then other parts are supposedly ignored (like killing anyone that is a non-muslim)? Who determines which 'rules' are to be strictly enforced?

YellowOneKinobi

Hi YellowOneKinobi,

Where does it say in the Qur'an that Muslims should kill all non-muslims?

· [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

· [9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

· [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

· [5.33] The punishment of those against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

· [8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Do these verses instigate/call-to violence against all non-muslims?

First and foremost if it did - then no non-muslim/disbeliever would be alive. Period.

There are times when a society/group of people DO have to fight/engage in battle - ofcourse, for the right reasons and one of them is self-defense.

Let us take them one-by-one God Willing.

Regarding 2:191 - Let us see the verses before and after.

2:190-193.

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. (190)

And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. (191)

But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. (192)

And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. (193)

What is being said and stated here?

1. Limitations are set when fighting in the path of God.

2. Historical context: This is granting permission to the Muslims, who were driven away from their homeland (Makkah) by the polytheists to fight back and regain their belongings. Which explains the "and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, ".

3. This is not a general order to Muslims gloabally for all time periods. Rather the verses were in response to a particular event,time and place. Yet, the concept of warfare/fighting is still the same (eg. limitations, not fighting in the sacred mosque).

Regarding 9:123/8:12.

9:123

O ye who believe! Fight the Unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you; and know that Allah is with those who fear him. (123)

8:11-15

Remember He covered you with a sort of drowsiness, to give you calm as from himself, and He caused rain to descend on you from heaven, to clean you therewith, to remove from you the stain of satan to strengthen your hearts, and to plant your feet firmly therewith. (11)

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." (12)

This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: if any contend against Allah and His Messenger Allah is strict in punishment. (13)

Thus (will it be said): "Taste ye then of the (punishment): for those who resist Allah, is the penalty of the fire." (14)

O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. (15)

This is war, there will be fighting, there will be contact with the enemy, should your enemy find you to be wimpy and weak? Pathetic and empty? No, ofcourse not.

Standing your ground and showing firmness (and let them find firmness in you)is an obvious trait that should be present in any soldier on the battlefield. Also, when you meet the enemy, will you be having tea and biscuits and singing songs... ofcourse not - you will fight for what you believe in and die trying with utmost ferocity (smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them).

There is nothing here which instigates violence outside thenecessity which is that of engaging in battle (war, fighting).

[QUOTE="xfxfxfanatikx"]

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

In that case, I'm having trouble reconciling how on the one hand, Islamic law strictly follows the Koran word for word, but then other parts are supposedly ignored (like killing anyone that is a non-muslim)? Who determines which 'rules' are to be strictly enforced?

YellowOneKinobi

Hi YellowOneKinobi,

Where does it say in the Qur'an that Muslims should kill all non-muslims?

· [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

· [9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

· [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

· [5.33] The punishment of those against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

· [8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Regarding 9:29

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger nor, acknowledge the Religion of Truth from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (29)

I replied to a similar allegation made by my brother, I will copy and paste my response to him here:

Some people have falsely concluded from verse9:29, that Muslims are commanded to attack all non-Muslims until they pay money. In fact, such an interpretation is completely false and contradicts authentic Islamic teachings. Commenting on this verse, Shaykh Jalal Abualrub writes:

These Ayat (Quranic verses) stress the necessity of fighting against the People of the Scripture, but under what conditions? We previously established the fact that the Islamic State is not permitted to attack non-Muslims who are not hostile to Islam, who do not oppress Muslims, or try to convert Muslims by force from their religion, or expel them from their lands, or wage war against them, or prepare for attacks against them. If any of these offenses occurs, however, Muslims are permitted to defend themselves and protect their religion. Muslims are not permitted to attack non-Muslims who signed peace pacts with them, or non-Muslims who live under the protection of the Islamic State. (Abualrub,Holy Wars, Crusades, Jihad)

Likewise, the following fatwa points out that Muslims cannot attack a peaceful non-Muslim country:

Question: Is it an obligation of an Islamic state to attack the neighboring non-Muslim states and collect 'jizya' from them? Do we see this in the example of the rightly guided Caliphs who fought against the Roman and Persian Empires without any aggression initiating from them?

Answered by Sheikh Hânî al-Jubayr, judge at the Jeddah Supreme Court

If the non-Muslim country did not attack the Muslim one nor mobilize itself to prevent the practice and spread of Islam, nor transgress against mosques, nor work to oppress the Muslim people in their right to profess their faith and decry unbelief, then it is not for the Muslim country to attack that country.Jihâd of a military nature was only permitted to help Muslims defend their religion and remove oppression from the people.

The Persians and Romans did in fact aggress against Islam and attack the Muslims first.

The Chosroe of Persia had gone so far as to order his commander in Yemen specifically to kill the Prophet (peace be upon him). The Romans mobilized their forces to fight the Prophet (peace be upon him), and the Muslims confronted them in the Battles of Mu'tah and Tabûk during the Prophet's lifetime.

May Allah guide us all. And May peace and blessing be upon our Prophet Muhammad.(SOURCE, emphasis added)

The above fatwa refers to the historical context in which the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) fought against other nations. The Prophet Muhammad did not initiate agression against anyone, rather he and his followers were under attack from all who sought to crush the new Islamic state. The first hostilities between the Muslims and the Roman empire began when the Prophet Muhammad's messenger to the Ghassan tribe (a governate of the Roman empire), Al-Harith bin Umayr Al-Azdi, was tied up and beheaded (Al-Mubarakpuri,Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum, p. 383). The killing of a diplomat was an open act of war, and the Prophet Muhammad sent an armed force to confront the tribe, but the Roman empire brought in reinforcements and the resulting conflict, known as the Battle of Mut'ah, was a defeat for the Muslims. Only after this did subsequent battles between the Muslims and the Roman Empire occur, and the Muslims emerged victorious. Likewise, as mentioned in the above fatwa, hostiltiies between the Muslims and the Persians only began after the Persian emperor Chosroe ordered his governor in Yemen Badham, to kill the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, although his efforts were thwarted when the latter accepted Islam. Other non-muslim groups, such as those in Madinah, also initiated hostilities against the Muslims despite peace treaties as Shaykh Sayyid Sabiq writes:

As for fighting the Jews (People of the Scripture), they had conducted a peace pact with the Messenger after he migrated to Madinah. Soon afterwards, they betrayed the peace pact and joined forces with the pagans and the hypocrites against Muslims. They also fought against Muslims during the Battle of A`hzab , then Allah revealed…[and he cites verse9:29] (Sayyid Sabiq,Fiqhu as-Sunnah, Vol. 3, p. 80)

In light of the historical context of this verse, it becomes very clear that the verse was revealed in connection with agression initiated against Muslims. As Dr. Jamal Badawi very accurately concludes with regard to verse9:29and similar verses:

All of these verses, without exception, if studied carefully, address aggression and oppression committed against Muslims at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), whether by idolatrous Arabs, some of the Jewish tribes in Madinah, or by some Christians.(SOURCE)

Therefore, the command to fight in verse9:29relates to those non-muslims who commit agression and not those who are committed to live in peace. The verse is subject to certain conditions that were apparent when it was implemented in the time of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, as Shaykh Sayyid Sabiq writes:

What we have stated makes it clear that Islam did not allow the initiating of hostilities, except to: 1. repel aggression; 2. protect Islamic propagation; 3. deter Fitnah and oppression and ensure freedom of religion. In such cases, fighting becomes a necessity of the religion and one of its sacred ordainments. It is then called, 'Jihad'.(Sayyid Sabiq,Fiqhu as-Sunnah, Vol. 3, p. 81)

The verse then proceeds to mention some issues relating to the Islamic state, and governing non-muslim citizens of the Islamic state. Dr. Maher Hathout comments on the regulations in verse9:29:

Freedom of religion is an essential aspect in an Islamic state. One of the five pillars of Islam iszakat(almsgiving). The People of the Book (Christians and Jews) are not obliged to pay the Islamiczakatthat is spent by the state for social necessities and state affairs as defined in the Quran (see9:60). But they must pay other taxes to share in the state budget. If they refuse to pay this tax to the state and rebel against the state, then it is the obligation of the state to confront them until they pay it. This is what Caliph Abu Bakr did after the death of the Prophet, when some people refused to payzakat.(Hathout, Jihad vs. Terrorism; US Multimedia Vera International, 2002, p.53)

The verse mentions Jizya, which is unfortunately misunderstood by some people. Like any nation, the Islamic government requires its citizens to pay taxes in return for its services. Since Muslims pay theZakat, the non-muslim citizens are required to pay Jizya (for more information on Jizya, please refer toJizya in IslamandJizyah and non-muslim minorities). Dr. Monqiz As-Saqqar writes concerning the Jizya tax:

The sum of jizya was never large to the extent that the men were unable to pay. Rather, it was always available and reasonable. During the reign of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, jizya never exceeded one dinar annually and it never exceeded four dinars under the Umayyad rule.(SOURCE)

Shaykh Abu'l-Hasan Al-Mawardi (d. 1058CE) explicitly points out that the Jizya should be exacted in accordance with the means of the people, and the Imam should judge the conclude the amount to the satisfaction of the leaders of those being taxed:

The fuqaha (Jurists) differ as to the amount of the Jizya. Abu Hanifa considers that those subject to this tax are of three kinds: the rich from whom forty-eight dirhams are taken; those of average means from whom twenty four are taken, and the poor from whom twelve dirhams are taken: he thus stipulated the minimum and maximum amounts and prohibits any further judgement on behalf of those responsible for its collection. Malik, however, does not fix its minimum and maximum amount and considers that those responsible should make their own judgement as to the minimum and maximum. Ash-Shafi'i considers that the minimum is a dinar, and that it is not permitted to go below this while he does not stipulate the maximum, the latter being dependant on the ijtihad (judgement) of those responsible: the Imam, however, should try to harmonise between the different amounts, or to exact an amount in accordance with people's means. If he has used his judgement to conclude the contract od jizyah to the satisfaction of the leaders of the people being taxed, then it becomes binding on all of them and their descendants, generation after generation, and a leader may not afterwards change this amunt, be it to decrease it or increase it.(Al-Mawardi,al-Ahkam as-Sultaniyyah, Ta-Ha Publishers Ltd. 1996, pp. 209-210)

Hence, the laws of Islam forbid Muslims from opressing non-muslims and command them to treat others with justice and compassion. In fact, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh himself forbade Muslims from harming non-muslim citizens of an islamic state or any non-muslim with whom there was an agreement of peace, as he said,

"The one who wrongs a covenanter or impairs his right or overworks him or forcibly takes something from him, I will be his prosecutor on the Day of Judgment.(Sunan Abi Dawud 170/3 no. 3052, Sunan an-Nasa'i 25/8 no. 2749, and verified by Al-Albani no. 2626).

In conclusion, verse9:29commands Muslims to fight against only those who initiate agression as illustated by its historical context. Muslims may only fight under strict conditions, and are commanded to live peacefully with peaceful non-muslim neighbors.

Regarding 5:33

5:32-36

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person―unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land― it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if anyone saved a life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our Messengers with clear Signs, yet even after that many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (32)

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.― (33)

Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (34)

O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive (with might and main) in His cause: that ye may prosper. (35)

As to those who reject Faith,― if they had everything on earth, and twice repeated, to give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Judgment, it would never be accepted of them. Theirs would be a grievous penalty. (36)

A few points to be noted:

1. The punishment is for someone who (who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land) ...In modern terminology this would be considered "terrorism".

2.God has prescribed multiple punishments in this verse using the word "or" between them, indicating various alternatives. The punishment depends on the circumstances and severity of the offence.

I am trying to keep this as brief as possible so I will end here and defend the stance that Islam does not promote violence or the killing of all non-muslims in a Free-for-all-going-nuts manner.

All translations used were by Abdullah Yusuf Ali - source.

Also, for those who will be quick to claim that these are"personal/modernist interpretations"(believe me I have seen the *real* modernist interpretations.. they are sad) I will point you to a resource to verify and check - here is Tafsir ibn Kathir.

A exegesis of the Qur'an, the most authentic/commonly used one which is Tafsir ibn Kathir. So how do Muslims interpret their "holy book" - by Hadith of the prophet (pbuh) - who else would know the meaning of the Qur'an other then the one to whom it was "revealed" to? Although this is another topic entirely...

Again, after 700+ posts. When did she ever state she was a Muslim?

The way this is going it'll surpass the "LA Noire 3 Discs" topic ...

But I can understand why some people wouldn't like a Muslim women on Playboy.

The way this is going it'll surpass the "LA Noire 3 Discs" topic ...

But I can understand why some people wouldn't like a Muslim women on Playboy.

JasonDarksavior

i dont at all,

the only argument i can see against her being naked and being Muslims is "it destroys the image of Islam"

But that has already been done by numerious terror groups, and they should be protesting against them instead.

That might even create a line between the Muslims that believe the terror is justified, and the ones that dont. Which also might help Muslims create a better image in the west.