My Letter to Atheists

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NiKva

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#1 NiKva
Member since 2010 • 8181 Posts

This was not made to offend in any way. Please read all of this before posting.


Hello atheists, agnostics, and theists of Gamespot. Tonight I have come to spread some divine wisdom that suddenly struck me right before I was about to fall asleep. I've known this for awhile, but there are many atheists on Gamespot and the internet in general. No, I am not saying that your beliefs are wrong, but some of your reasons why science can disprove religion are really bogus. I'm not trying to preach or anything, I just want to address these problems and explain why I think that they are wrong.


Many people who choose not to follow any religion say that their reasoning is based on science, whether it be the big bang or evolution. I respect those who aren't religious just because nothing seems to fit with them. Claiming that something totally unrelated to religion can disprove religion just grinds my gears every time I have to read the same excuse.


You might ask me, "How do you know there is a God?" My answer is that I just take a look around myself. Objects can be broken down by what exactly they are made up, whether it be material, element, or even how many protons, electrons, and neutrons there are in it. You might now be asking "Well how does this prove in your belief of a God?" My answer for that is that we don't know how the elements were created, or how atoms came to be. In my own opionion, I would believe that a divine entity created everything in the universe, and that we are slowly understanding what anything is made of through science.


Then there are those that "disprove" religion by pointing at the theory of evolution. To me, evolution and Christianity goes hand in hand. The first book, Genesis, can fit right into evolution. Genesis tells about the birth of our species while mixing in metaphors and mythology. Who knows if the first human male and female were ever named Adam and Eve, but if that's what God wants them to be called, then so be it. Everything before the creation of humans through evolution was never really spoken about in the Bible, because it doesn't have any relevancy towards God's interaction with Humans.


Finally, the last way that atheists try to claim that a religion couldn't possibly be right is by claiming that the big bang created everything in the universe. In my mind, creationism and the big bang fit perfectly together. A God could have started the events that lead to the big bang occuring. After all the elements are done settling down in space, he forms the Earth for a few million or billions of years to make it hospitable for humans to live on.


Then there are those that don't follow a religion, because they say that religions are too restrictive. You don't have to have the Bible or a priest dictate how you must follow your life. Go ahead and live the way you want to live. Sin a little, nobody is perfect. Just don't sin to spite God. I have only read the first two books of the Bible, yet I can say that I believe in Christianity. When I read the Bible, I read it for divine inspiration, not to learn what I am and am not supposed to do.


Well I'm sorry that this was really long, but I had to get this out of my brain and onto paper. Tell me what you think about my thoughts.

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th3warr1or

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#2 th3warr1or
Member since 2007 • 20637 Posts
Inb4blogthis. Only problem: Christianity isn't the first nor only religion. What makes you think it's right? What if the Norse faith is?
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NiKva

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#3 NiKva
Member since 2010 • 8181 Posts
Inb4blogthis. Only problem: Christianity isn't the first nor only religion. What makes you think it's right? What if the Norse faith is? th3warr1or
You didn't read the entire thing ): I've already blogged this incase a moderator wanted to close this. Personally, I want to see what people see of my thoughts and discuss/debate about it. I was using Christianity as an example since I am Christian. Many times when I see atheists complaining why a God can't possibly exist, they target Judaism/Christianity/Islam.
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Frame_Dragger

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#4 Frame_Dragger
Member since 2009 • 9581 Posts

Ooook. I'd caution you against assuming that people who don't believe in a god, and don't adhere to religions care about disproving them. If we're talking about science and the like, that's not about disproving anything, but rather offering evidence to support a hypothesis. I'm pleased that you're one of those reasonable people who can accept both your religion and theories with a great deal of support such as evolution.

On the other hand, saying that anyone uses evolution to "disprove" a religion is silly; evolution doesn't rule in or out theism. You have a LOT of straw men there, and you're beating the heck out of them, but they don't strike me as very realistic. I'm not going to parse everything there, but in general I'd just be content in my beliefs were I you, and less interested in tilting at windmills you've constructed yourself.

Again... all of that being said, I appreciate anyone with a mind that is sufficently flexible to accept their faith and science in the same bite, without insisting that one interferes with another.

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deactivated-5b19214ec908b

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#5 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

Christianity is just one of many religions. In time it will die just like tons of others have.

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Planeforger

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#6 Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 20059 Posts
I think you're jumping to a lot of conclusions there about what atheists 'believe'. And I suspect that people who bring up evolution are more trying to invalidate literal interpretations of the Bible more than anything else - quite a lot of the Old Testament simply wouldn't make scientific sense when read as a plain account of facts. Anyway, it's true that science and religion could go hand in hand, and that the mysteries of the universe may have a divine origin. Then again, there could be a billion other possibilities - ideally, science will one day show us the answer.
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#7 Johnny_Rock
Member since 2002 • 40314 Posts

You really do not have to believe in anything specific to be an anthiest. All you need to NOT believe in is a God. And I really don't feel the need to argue my point to people of faith. I find their ignorance more amusing.

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Scoob64

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#8 Scoob64
Member since 2008 • 2635 Posts

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"]Inb4blogthis. Only problem: Christianity isn't the first nor only religion. What makes you think it's right? What if the Norse faith is? NiKva
You didn't read the entire thing ): I've already blogged this incase a moderator wanted to close this. Personally, I want to see what people see of my thoughts and discuss/debate about it. I was using Christianity as an example since I am Christian. Many times when I see atheists complaining why a God can't possibly exist, they target Judaism/Christianity/Islam.

I was a devout Christian years ago... been to church all my life, came close to a minor in religion in college, and even use to do some one-one-one evangelism... but heres the problem with the faith...

Christianty stole many of its elements, like the virgin birth from much earlier faiths... Horas is one example that comes to mind.and there an infinite number of Gods you can believe in. why not believe in Thor, Zeus, Islam, Judaism? they all have about as much evidence for their 'truth'... also, the scriptures have been written and rewritten by tons of scribes throughout history, and so many "gospels" were ommited from the scripture... including the gospel of Peter, Mary Magdalene, etc...are youreally going to put all your faith in some men that hand-pickedthe cannon from a gigantic library of old texts?

yes, its hard to explain a universe coming from nothing, or else always existing... but its just as improbable to think of an eternal coming from nothing, or always existing... if not more so. i'm kind of up in the air about it... i will frankly state that I don't know, and i think thats all we can really say right now... unless you have seen God face to face, its hard to say otherwise.

lastly, if Christianity is real, then 'Christians' would act VERY, VERY differently... i remember hearing that those that are pro-torture of detainees our military capture are overwhelmingly evangelical Christian... yes, because I'm sure Jesus was very pro-torture... the scripture where the prostitute brought before Jesus by the Pharisees comes to mind... why are Christians so pro-war and conquer? why is their divorce rate so high if that is against scripture as well? if christianity were real, the evidence would be reflected in Christians... and the evidence is not there.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that right now I really don't know.

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tenaka2

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#9 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="NiKva"][QUOTE="th3warr1or"]Inb4blogthis. Only problem: Christianity isn't the first nor only religion. What makes you think it's right? What if the Norse faith is? Scoob64

You didn't read the entire thing ): I've already blogged this incase a moderator wanted to close this. Personally, I want to see what people see of my thoughts and discuss/debate about it. I was using Christianity as an example since I am Christian. Many times when I see atheists complaining why a God can't possibly exist, they target Judaism/Christianity/Islam.

I was a devout Christian years ago... been to church all my life, came close to a minor in religion in college, and even use to do some one-one-one evangelism... but heres the problem with the faith...

Christianty stole many of its elements, like the virgin birth from much earlier faiths... Horas is one example that comes to mind.and there an infinite number of Gods you can believe in. why not believe in Thor, Zeus, Islam, Judaism? they all have about as much evidence for their 'truth'... also, the scriptures have been written and rewritten by tons of scribes throughout history, and so many "gospels" were ommited from the scripture... including the gospel of Peter, Mary Magdalene, etc...are youreally going to put all your faith in some men that hand-pickedthe cannon from a gigantic library of old texts?

yes, its hard to explain a universe coming from nothing, or else always existing... but its just as improbable to think of an eternal coming from nothing, or always existing... if not more so. i'm kind of up in the air about it... i will frankly state that I don't know, and i think thats all we can really say right now... unless you have seen God face to face, its hard to say otherwise.

lastly, if Christianity is real, then 'Christians' would act VERY, VERY differently... i remember hearing that those that are pro-torture of detainees our military capture are overwhelmingly evangelical Christian... yes, because I'm sure Jesus was very pro-torture... the scripture where the prostitute brought before Jesus by the Pharisees comes to mind... why are Christians so pro-war and conquer? why is their divorce rate so high if that is against scripture as well? if christianity were real, the evidence would be reflected in Christians... and the evidence is not there.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that right now I really don't know.

Very good post imo.

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trastamad03

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#10 trastamad03
Member since 2006 • 4859 Posts

[QUOTE="NiKva"][QUOTE="th3warr1or"]Inb4blogthis. Only problem: Christianity isn't the first nor only religion. What makes you think it's right? What if the Norse faith is? Scoob64

You didn't read the entire thing ): I've already blogged this incase a moderator wanted to close this. Personally, I want to see what people see of my thoughts and discuss/debate about it. I was using Christianity as an example since I am Christian. Many times when I see atheists complaining why a God can't possibly exist, they target Judaism/Christianity/Islam.

I was a devout Christian years ago... been to church all my life, came close to a minor in religion in college, and even use to do some one-one-one evangelism... but heres the problem with the faith...

Christianty stole many of its elements, like the virgin birth from much earlier faiths... Horas is one example that comes to mind.and there an infinite number of Gods you can believe in. why not believe in Thor, Zeus, Islam, Judaism? they all have about as much evidence for their 'truth'... also, the scriptures have been written and rewritten by tons of scribes throughout history, and so many "gospels" were ommited from the scripture... including the gospel of Peter, Mary Magdalene, etc...are youreally going to put all your faith in some men that hand-pickedthe cannon from a gigantic library of old texts?

yes, its hard to explain a universe coming from nothing, or else always existing... but its just as improbable to think of an eternal coming from nothing, or always existing... if not more so. i'm kind of up in the air about it... i will frankly state that I don't know, and i think thats all we can really say right now... unless you have seen God face to face, its hard to say otherwise.

lastly, if Christianity is real, then 'Christians' would act VERY, VERY differently... i remember hearing that those that are pro-torture of detainees our military capture are overwhelmingly evangelical Christian... yes, because I'm sure Jesus was very pro-torture... the scripture where the prostitute brought before Jesus by the Pharisees comes to mind... why are Christians so pro-war and conquer? why is their divorce rate so high if that is against scripture as well? if christianity were real, the evidence would be reflected in Christians... and the evidence is not there.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that right now I really don't know.

I believe in Thor... and everytime before I go to sleep and pray I call out to him with: "THOR IS HERE" [with Arnold-esque voice] :D All I get in return is a hammer to the face :( Feels good though.. Feels good :D
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tenaka2

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#11 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

Thank you for your letter.

Some people need religion I am happy you are happy with your faith.

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Planet_Pluto

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#12 Planet_Pluto
Member since 2011 • 2235 Posts

[QUOTE="NiKva"][QUOTE="th3warr1or"] Scoob64

lastly, if Christianity is real, then 'Christians' would act VERY, VERY differently... i remember hearing that those that are pro-torture of detainees our military capture are overwhelmingly evangelical Christian... yes, because I'm sure Jesus was very pro-torture... the scripture where the prostitute brought before Jesus by the Pharisees comes to mind... why are Christians so pro-war and conquer? why is their divorce rate so high if that is against scripture as well? if christianity were real, the evidence would be reflected in Christians... and the evidence is not there.

Regarding this part of your post......

Who is a "real" Christian? Who decides that? Am I truly a Christian? I attend mass every Sunday (and other days of obligation). I do my best to live my life based on the teachings of Jesus/the Bible. But does that make me a true Christian? I'd like to think so, but I think really only God can make that determination.

I've seen/read/heard about people from many faiths doing horrific things in the name of their respective religions. Take 9/11, for one glaring example. Despite praising Allah as they did their deeds, many/most people will say that they weren't "true" Muslims because Islam would not condone actions such as the ones they performed.

So to say that God or any religion is bogus, based on the actions of people, in my opinion isn't a worthwhile endeavor.

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THE_DRUGGIE

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#13 THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25110 Posts

I don't really care about disproving religion, to be honest.

I just don't believe in the supernatural.

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VodkaFTW

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#14 VodkaFTW
Member since 2011 • 271 Posts

I don't need to prove anything to prove what I think. You beleive in your things and I will beleive in mine, simple.

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weezyfb

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#15 weezyfb
Member since 2009 • 14703 Posts
Some people need religion to get through the day. i understand that
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#17 Treflis
Member since 2004 • 13757 Posts
Nobody can prove that an almighty entiry has created everything. And nobody can disapprove that an almighty entity hasn't. Everybody believes in their own thing and aslong as it doesn't harm others or is forced upon those that do not share the belief then let people believe what they want is what I say.
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Teenaged

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#18 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

*snif* ... *sob* ... :cry: NOBODY HAS SENT ME A LETTER IN YEAAAARS!!! :cry:

Thank you, TC.... *wipes tears away*

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Johnny_Rock

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#19 Johnny_Rock
Member since 2002 • 40314 Posts

*snif* ... *sob* ... :cry: NOBODY HAS SENT ME A LETTER IN YEAAAARS!!! :cry:

Thank you, TC.... *wipes tears away*

Teenaged

That's because of teh internets.....

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IZoMBiEI

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#21 IZoMBiEI
Member since 2002 • 6477 Posts

sorry, while I would like to believe there are gods out there ruling the world its just not realistic to me.

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tenaka2

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#22 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="NiKva"]

lastly, if Christianity is real, then 'Christians' would act VERY, VERY differently... i remember hearing that those that are pro-torture of detainees our military capture are overwhelmingly evangelical Christian... yes, because I'm sure Jesus was very pro-torture... the scripture where the prostitute brought before Jesus by the Pharisees comes to mind... why are Christians so pro-war and conquer? why is their divorce rate so high if that is against scripture as well? if christianity were real, the evidence would be reflected in Christians... and the evidence is not there.

Planet_Pluto

So to say that God or any religion is bogus, based on the actions of people, in my opinion isn't a worthwhile endeavor.

Unfortunatly all we have to judge religion on are its followers as there is zero evidence regarding any god or other supernatural beings. As people create religion it is rational to judge people based on what they have created.

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surrealnumber5

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#23 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
Inb4blogthis. Only problem: Christianity isn't the first nor only religion. What makes you think it's right? What if the Norse faith is? th3warr1or
it is but the story is told all wrong.
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Netherscourge

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#24 Netherscourge
Member since 2003 • 16364 Posts

I don't care what anyone believes in - just don't shove it down my throat or legislate it.

You keep your religion/non-religion to yourself, in your house. I'll keep my religion/non-religion to myself, in my house.

When we're outside together, don't bother me with your beliefs and I won't bother you with mine.

Just live life via common sense, respect individual freedoms and we'll get along just fine.

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#25 Planet_Pluto
Member since 2011 • 2235 Posts

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

[QUOTE="NiKva"]

lastly, if Christianity is real, then 'Christians' would act VERY, VERY differently... i remember hearing that those that are pro-torture of detainees our military capture are overwhelmingly evangelical Christian... yes, because I'm sure Jesus was very pro-torture... the scripture where the prostitute brought before Jesus by the Pharisees comes to mind... why are Christians so pro-war and conquer? why is their divorce rate so high if that is against scripture as well? if christianity were real, the evidence would be reflected in Christians... and the evidence is not there.

tenaka2

So to say that God or any religion is bogus, based on the actions of people, in my opinion isn't a worthwhile endeavor.

Unfortunatly all we have to judge religion on are its followers as there is zero evidence regarding any god or other supernatural beings. As people create religion it is rational to judge people based on what they have created.

I'm not sure I understand why religion has to be "judged" to begin with.

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tenaka2

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#26 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

So to say that God or any religion is bogus, based on the actions of people, in my opinion isn't a worthwhile endeavor.

Planet_Pluto

Unfortunatly all we have to judge religion on are its followers as there is zero evidence regarding any god or other supernatural beings. As people create religion it is rational to judge people based on what they have created.

I'm not sure I understand why religion has to be "judged" to begin with.

Humanity judges everything based upon its pros and cons. Anything created by peoplecan be judged by people.

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cybrcatter

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#27 cybrcatter
Member since 2003 • 16210 Posts

Attributing everything one doesn't understand to some magical entity has always come off as lazy to me.

Making leaps in logic to place the world in a context that will agree with some ancient text every time a previously unexplained phenomenon attributed to god is given a logical explanation by critical thinkers is, quite frankly, delusional at best.

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#28 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Unfortunatly all we have to judge religion on are its followers as there is zero evidence regarding any god or other supernatural beings. As people create religion it is rational to judge people based on what they have created.

tenaka2

I'm not sure I understand why religion has to be "judged" to begin with.

Humanity judges everything based upon its pros and cons. Anything created by peoplecan be judged by people.

including systems of judgement employed by persons? if so then that is just like your opinion man

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#29 Piroshki
Member since 2011 • 242 Posts
I'm not sure I understand why religion has to be "judged" to begin with.Planet_Pluto
Everything should be examined closely for validity, nothing should ever be taken on faith. It's just logical. When you take faith out of the equation, and look at all the stolen elements from other past religions in the bible, as well as the bibles own very convoluted history, and all the changes it went under through the many years, it's obvious Christianity, (and Islam, Judaism, etc.) just can't stand up to scrutiny. As for judging the religion based on the action of it's followers, it's a valid point. The definition of a Christian is one who is Christ-like. It's very plainly obvious most self proclaimed Christians do not behave in a manner similar to the fictional biblical character Jesus. If he is so wonderful, and his way of living so inspired and wise, why do so many of his followers themselves not truly ascribe to it? It's the reason one of the definitions of the faith floating around is "Christians: people who believe the teachings of Jesus are a great way for their neighbors to live their lives". It also would seem to be the reason for that famous Ghandi quote: (not verbatim mind you) "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ".
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tenaka2

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#30 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]I'm not sure I understand why religion has to be "judged" to begin with.

surrealnumber5

Humanity judges everything based upon its pros and cons. Anything created by peoplecan be judged by people.

including systems of judgement employed by persons? if so then that is just like your opinion man

I think most people would agree that its important we judge things that humans create. As religion is most likely a human creation we are obligated to a certain degree.

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#31 Wolls
Member since 2005 • 19119 Posts
You make some good points and it is clear that you have actually thought about what you are saying :) however I don't think you have grasped the reason why the majority of atheists do not believe, because it isn't because of the theory of evolution etc. It is because they see and understand the scientific reasoning behind developing an understanding of our world. You see everything that goes into your science texts books has been thoroughly tried, tested and picked apart by impartial judges until there are as little flaws with it as possible. Only then does it count as scientific understanding and classed as a fact. Religion on the other hand does not follow this at all. It deals in the supernatural which by definition cannot be tested or understood fully, therefore there is very little reason to care about it. Some people call this close minded but when religions asks people to base their whole lives on something that has little understanding, and could well be more hocus pocus than actually real it sort of makes me lean away from it.
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Planet_Pluto

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#32 Planet_Pluto
Member since 2011 • 2235 Posts

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]I'm not sure I understand why religion has to be "judged" to begin with.Piroshki
Everything should be examined closely for validity, nothing should ever be taken on faith. It's just logical. When you take faith out of the equation, and look at all the stolen elements from other past religions in the bible, as well as the bibles own very convoluted history, and all the changes it went under through the many years, it's obvious Christianity, (and Islam, Judaism, etc.) just can't stand up to scrutiny. As for judging the religion based on the action of it's followers, it's a valid point. The definition of a Christian is one who is Christ-like. It's very plainly obvious most self proclaimed Christians do not behave in a manner similar to the fictional biblical character Jesus. If he is so wonderful, and his way of living so inspired and wise, why do so many of his followers themselves not truly ascribe to it? It's the reason one of the definitions of the faith floating around is "Christians: people who believe the teachings of Jesus are a great way for their neighbors to live their lives". It also would seem to be the reason for that famous Ghandi quote: (not verbatim mind you) "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ".

I don't necessarily agree with the first part of your post. That is, "everything should be examined" seems to be a requirement for you. I don't agree. If one of my neighborsis of a particular faith, and doesn't bother me with it, I fail to seewhy I should be scrutinizing them (unless, of course, my life were so empty that I need to spend my time scrutinizing others).

Regarding the part of your post that I bolded, I'm not sure if you read my previous post in this thread, but I think that we are actually in somewhat agreement.I think, particularly the Ghandi paraphrase.

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#33 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Humanity judges everything based upon its pros and cons. Anything created by peoplecan be judged by people.

tenaka2

including systems of judgement employed by persons? if so then that is just like your opinion man

I think most people would agree that its important we judge things that humans create. As religion is most likely a human creation we are obligated to a certain degree.

i already feel required to argue against many things people tell me i am obligated to support or do, please dont add to that list so nonchalantly. some things are so unimportant to people that they feel it would be a waste to pursue, for me religion is one of those things.

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#34 XileLord
Member since 2007 • 3776 Posts

This was not made to offend in any way. Please read all of this before posting.


Hello atheists, agnostics, and theists of Gamespot. Tonight I have come to spread some divine wisdom that suddenly struck me right before I was about to fall asleep. I've known this for awhile, but there are many atheists on Gamespot and the internet in general. No, I am not saying that your beliefs are wrong, but some of your reasons why science can disprove religion are really bogus. I'm not trying to preach or anything, I just want to address these problems and explain why I think that they are wrong.

So divine wisdom suddenly struck you right before you were about to go to sleep? Also where do you get the idea that atheists are simply atheists because of science? What about the burden of proof? Evidence for what you claim to believe? It's not atheists that are making these extraordinary claims, we simply don't believe in god. We don't "claim" to know how the universe was created, we don't claim to know how everything around us was formed, some look towards the big bang and other theories and some of their own ideas, but one thing all atheists do share in common is the disbelief in god.


Many people who choose not to follow any religion say that their reasoning is based on science, whether it be the big bang or evolution. I respect those who aren't religious just because nothing seems to fit with them. Claiming that something totally unrelated to religion can disprove religion just grinds my gears every time I have to read the same excuse.

Actually the reasoning is firstly based on the absence of evidence that god does exist. We don't simply look up in the sky and claim some imaginary guy did it, we look for the evidence and then use that evidence to prove that the world/universe doesn't need a god to exist. With that also comes the common understanding that while we don't have all the answers, it doesn't mean that god does exist. Science can only be used to disprove religion in the sense that we can use it to prove we don't need a god to exist. Explain how we are supposed to disprove a unfalsifiable hypothesis? We can't, it's just called using logic.


You might ask me, "How do you know there is a God?" My answer is that I just take a look around myself. Objects can be broken down by what exactly they are made up, whether it be material, element, or even how many protons, electrons, and neutrons there are in it. You might now be asking "Well how does this prove in your belief of a God?" My answer for that is that we don't know how the elements were created, or how atoms came to be. In my own opionion, I would believe that a divine entity created everything in the universe, and that we are slowly understanding what anything is made of through science.

Which is pretty common for the average religious person. "I just look around at the world, I don't see how all this could have been made without a god, something just cannot come from nothing!" and yet all this shows is ignorance towards science. It's the ability to look up at the world and disregard actual thought while taking the easy road and claiming "god did it "


Then there are those that "disprove" religion by pointing at the theory of evolution. To me, evolution and Christianity goes hand in hand. The first book, Genesis, can fit right into evolution. Genesis tells about the birth of our species while mixing in metaphors and mythology. Who knows if the first human male and female were ever named Adam and Eve, but if that's what God wants them to be called, then so be it. Everything before the creation of humans through evolution was never really spoken about in the Bible, because it doesn't have any relevancy towards God's interaction with Humans.

What about other religions? Christians claim their beliefs are right, yet disregard others and how is this any different from any other atheist that argues against religion? The only difference is when atheists argue, we argue against all religion. You want to make imaginary links between Gensis and evolution to further claim your beliefs are valid, how is this any different then the atheist looking towards evolution and other theories in a way to say that we don't need a god to exist. The problem with god is that you can change who he is, what he is, how he is etc at a whim, so when a theory like evolution does come along you can make imaginary links between the two.


Finally, the last way that atheists try to claim that a religion couldn't possibly be right is by claiming that the big bang created everything in the universe. In my mind, creationism and the big bang fit perfectly together. A God could have started the events that lead to the big bang occuring. After all the elements are done settling down in space, he forms the Earth for a few million or billions of years to make it hospitable for humans to live on.

Refer to what I said above, this is why atheists cannot disprove god because god is different to every person. World isn't 6000 years old, world isn't flat, earth revolves around the sun not the other way around etc yet you guys can so easily change what you believe to make it fit within your religion. Even though we can disprove large sections of the bible, look at large parts of it with disgust (How many people did god kill in the bible again?) you can change it. "It's the context not to be taken literally, it was just a test, god was just angry because humanity hurt his feelings" etc You can make the story up as you go. Adding links between religion and the big bang and evolution is the same thing and while you can make it make sense, it doesn't mean it's a valid.


Then there are those that don't follow a religion, because they say that religions are too restrictive. You don't have to have the Bible or a priest dictate how you must follow your life. Go ahead and live the way you want to live. Sin a little, nobody is perfect. Just don't sin to spite God. I have only read the first two books of the Bible, yet I can say that I believe in Christianity. When I read the Bible, I read it for divine inspiration, not to learn what I am and am not supposed to do.

The bible in itself is restrictive, it's Christians who pick and choose what they want to believe from it and live their life that way. Which is why you have Christians who are homosexual and Christians in prison who have raped and killed.


Well I'm sorry that this was really long, but I had to get this out of my brain and onto paper. Tell me what you think about my thoughts.

Maybe this will give you a better idea of god: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU&feature=channel_video_title

(cant link gamespot has crappy editor)


NiKva

Response is in bold

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BuryMe

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#35 BuryMe
Member since 2004 • 22017 Posts

There are a few major problems with your post. First of all, Christinaity isn't the only religion. Second, you're using the standard God of the gaps arguemnt (I don't know how it happened, so God must have done it.)

Third, you're confusing atheism with osmology and evolution. They are all totally seperate.

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tenaka2

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#36 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] including systems of judgement employed by persons? if so then that is just like your opinion man

surrealnumber5

I think most people would agree that its important we judge things that humans create. As religion is most likely a human creation we are obligated to a certain degree.

i already feel required to argue against many things people tell me i am obligated to support or do, please dont add to that list so nonchalantly. some things are so unimportant to people that they feel it would be a waste to pursue, for me religion is one of those things.

I agree to a certain extent, I like old pagan followings a lot but thats more of a hobby.

I think the reason we should study current religious factions is because they play a direct role in influencing the world, the religious right in the states being the most worrying. Any group that makes policy decisions based any book that old derserves observation in my opinion.

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cheese_game619

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#37 cheese_game619
Member since 2005 • 13317 Posts

xmas

I can't explain much and neither can scientists but what I do know is that the smartest people in the world don't believe in God and looking into the sky wishing for things to happen seems pretty primative to me.

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Planet_Pluto

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#38 Planet_Pluto
Member since 2011 • 2235 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I think most people would agree that its important we judge things that humans create. As religion is most likely a human creation we are obligated to a certain degree.

tenaka2

i already feel required to argue against many things people tell me i am obligated to support or do, please dont add to that list so nonchalantly. some things are so unimportant to people that they feel it would be a waste to pursue, for me religion is one of those things.

I agree to a certain extent, I like old pagan followings a lot but thats more of a hobby.

I think the reason we should study current religious factions is because they play a direct role in influencing the world, the religious right in the states being the most worrying. Any group that makes policy decisions based any book that old derserves observation in my opinion.

I'd think that individual laws/policies are the things that should be studied.

For example, I'm fairly certain both Christians and Atheists agree that murder is wrong. The Catholic might say that it's wrong because of the Ten Commandments while the Atheist might say it is wrong because it takes away the victim's rights/freedom to exist. But at the end of the day, the law stands because everyone agrees with it.

Then there are things like abortion, where a Catholic might not approve because they consider it murder, but many other peopel think that a woman's right to choose supersedes the rights of the fertilized egg. In this case, the law does not stand on the side of the Catholic.

My point is, when a law/policy makes sense, why in the world should it matter where it's roots come from?

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Riverwolf007

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#39 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

i don't share my opinion about religion in ot anymore since i get modded for it almost every time.

since you don't have the ability to hear anything other than what you want to hear there is no point in saying anything.

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Darthmatt

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#40 Darthmatt
Member since 2002 • 8970 Posts

I have no problem with faith, but religions are organizations designed by human and ultimately corruptible from their original intent. My main aversion to religion is really the fact that I have a difficult time conforming to group thinking.

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surrealnumber5

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#41 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I think most people would agree that its important we judge things that humans create. As religion is most likely a human creation we are obligated to a certain degree.

tenaka2

i already feel required to argue against many things people tell me i am obligated to support or do, please dont add to that list so nonchalantly. some things are so unimportant to people that they feel it would be a waste to pursue, for me religion is one of those things.

I agree to a certain extent, I like old pagan followings a lot but thats more of a hobby.

I think the reason we should study current religious factions is because they play a direct role in influencing the world, the religious right in the states being the most worrying. Any group that makes policy decisions based any book that old derserves observation in my opinion.

anyone who makes policy decisions on feelings be they an individuals religion or an individuals guilt i don't think they should be in the political arena. this would knock out just about every politician out there, it is also why i hate the force politicians wish to use, also why politicians dont understand the economy or business in general. they cannot understand that their value system is not the only "correct" one. understanding subjective value is important if you wish to understand people and not just dictate to them

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scorch-62

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#42 scorch-62
Member since 2006 • 29763 Posts
"some of your reasons why science can disprove religion are really bogus." I stopped reading there. Science is the study of all things natural. Religion isn't comprised entirely of natural components and this cannot be totally refuted. Your refusal to understand something like that by calling it bogus is ridiculous at best, offensive at worst.
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tenaka2

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#43 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] i already feel required to argue against many things people tell me i am obligated to support or do, please dont add to that list so nonchalantly. some things are so unimportant to people that they feel it would be a waste to pursue, for me religion is one of those things.

Planet_Pluto

I agree to a certain extent, I like old pagan followings a lot but thats more of a hobby.

I think the reason we should study current religious factions is because they play a direct role in influencing the world, the religious right in the states being the most worrying. Any group that makes policy decisions based any book that old derserves observation in my opinion.

I'd think that individual laws/policies are the things that should be studied.

For example, I'm fairly certain both Christians and Atheists agree that murder is wrong. The Catholic might say that it's wrong because of the Ten Commandments while the Atheist might say it is wrong because it takes away the victim's rights/freedom to exist. But at the end of the day, the law stands because everyone agrees with it.

Then there are things like abortion, where a Catholic might not approve because they consider it murder, but many other peopel think that a woman's right to choose supersedes the rights of the fertilized egg. In this case, the law does not stand on the side of the Catholic.

My point is, when a law/policy makes sense, why in the world should it matter where it's roots come from?

Because christians will try underhanded ways to get religion into differernt areas, like the intelligent design movement for example. This was a policical movement specificially designed to undermine science teaching and bring god into the classroom in an attempt tocircumvent the constitutional rules.

The associated wedge document is conclusive proof of this.

I would argue that our laws should be based upon login and reason and never based on dogma.

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greenskittles

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#44 greenskittles
Member since 2011 • 661 Posts

You are a Christian because you are born in a country I assume, who on the majority are Christian themselves. That's fine, you were brought up with Christian parents, probably Christian school, your countries political system probably has traditional underlinings of Christianity built into it. Naturally you've come to the conclusion that God exist through the various influences of your life. That's fine, but you want some debate so I'll give it to you.

How is it fair that some kid was unlucky enough to be born in Thailand will burn in hell because he wasn't influenced the way you were because of his surrounding being primarily Buddist?

There are thousands of religions, would God honestly do that to the billions of other people who don't believe in your religion or someone elses religion for that matter?

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#45 Planet_Pluto
Member since 2011 • 2235 Posts

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I agree to a certain extent, I like old pagan followings a lot but thats more of a hobby.

I think the reason we should study current religious factions is because they play a direct role in influencing the world, the religious right in the states being the most worrying. Any group that makes policy decisions based any book that old derserves observation in my opinion.

tenaka2

I'd think that individual laws/policies are the things that should be studied.

For example, I'm fairly certain both Christians and Atheists agree that murder is wrong. The Catholic might say that it's wrong because of the Ten Commandments while the Atheist might say it is wrong because it takes away the victim's rights/freedom to exist. But at the end of the day, the law stands because everyone agrees with it.

Then there are things like abortion, where a Catholic might not approve because they consider it murder, but many other peopel think that a woman's right to choose supersedes the rights of the fertilized egg. In this case, the law does not stand on the side of the Catholic.

My point is, when a law/policy makes sense, why in the world should it matter where it's roots come from?

Because christians will try underhanded ways to get religion into differernt areas, like the intelligent design movement for example. This was a policical movement specificially designed to undermine science teaching and bring god into the classroom in an attempt tocircumvent the constitutional rules.

The associated wedge document is conclusive proof of this.

I would argue that our laws should be based upon login and reason and never based on dogma.

Christians will try underhanded ways? Is that to imply that Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, etc DON'T try to do things in an underhanded fashion? Don't get me wrong, some self-professed Christians will do that, but so will and does every other group under the sun.

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#46 gaming25
Member since 2010 • 6181 Posts

Christianity is just one of many religions. In time it will die just like tons of others have.

toast_burner

But it hasnt, like the tons of others. So that is incorrect.

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#47 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I agree to a certain extent, I like old pagan followings a lot but thats more of a hobby.

I think the reason we should study current religious factions is because they play a direct role in influencing the world, the religious right in the states being the most worrying. Any group that makes policy decisions based any book that old derserves observation in my opinion.

tenaka2

I'd think that individual laws/policies are the things that should be studied.

For example, I'm fairly certain both Christians and Atheists agree that murder is wrong. The Catholic might say that it's wrong because of the Ten Commandments while the Atheist might say it is wrong because it takes away the victim's rights/freedom to exist. But at the end of the day, the law stands because everyone agrees with it.

Then there are things like abortion, where a Catholic might not approve because they consider it murder, but many other peopel think that a woman's right to choose supersedes the rights of the fertilized egg. In this case, the law does not stand on the side of the Catholic.

My point is, when a law/policy makes sense, why in the world should it matter where it's roots come from?

Because christians will try underhanded ways to get religion into differernt areas, like the intelligent design movement for example. This was a policical movement specificially designed to undermine science teaching and bring god into the ****oom in an attempt tocircumvent the constitutional rules.

The associated wedge document is conclusive proof of this.

I would argue that our laws should be based upon login and reason and never based on dogma.

and the progressive left did not use underhanded means to pass a healthcare bill that the majority of the population opposed? how is that kind of unwanted social engineering any better?

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tenaka2

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#48 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="Planet_Pluto"]I'd think that individual laws/policies are the things that should be studied.

For example, I'm fairly certain both Christians and Atheists agree that murder is wrong. The Catholic might say that it's wrong because of the Ten Commandments while the Atheist might say it is wrong because it takes away the victim's rights/freedom to exist. But at the end of the day, the law stands because everyone agrees with it.

Then there are things like abortion, where a Catholic might not approve because they consider it murder, but many other peopel think that a woman's right to choose supersedes the rights of the fertilized egg. In this case, the law does not stand on the side of the Catholic.

My point is, when a law/policy makes sense, why in the world should it matter where it's roots come from?

surrealnumber5

Because christians will try underhanded ways to get religion into differernt areas, like the intelligent design movement for example. This was a policical movement specificially designed to undermine science teaching and bring god into the ****oom in an attempt tocircumvent the constitutional rules.

The associated wedge document is conclusive proof of this.

I would argue that our laws should be based upon login and reason and never based on dogma.

and the progressive left did not use underhanded means to pass a healthcare bill that the majority of the population opposed? how is that kind of unwanted social engineering any better?

I would suggest that attempting to sneak religion in the back door of science classrooms in an attempt to corrupt children and ignore the seperation of church and state is worse.

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#49 grape_of_wrath
Member since 2009 • 3756 Posts

I'd think that individual laws/policies are the things that should be studied.

For example, I'm fairly certain both Christians and Atheists agree that murder is wrong. The Catholic might say that it's wrong because of the Ten Commandments while the Atheist might say it is wrong because it takes away the victim's rights/freedom to exist. But at the end of the day, the law stands because everyone agrees with it.

Then there are things like abortion, where a Catholic might not approve because they consider it murder, but many other peopel think that a woman's right to choose supersedes the rights of the fertilized egg. In this case, the law does not stand on the side of the Catholic.

My point is, when a law/policy makes sense, why in the world should it matter where it's roots come from?

Planet_Pluto

Because the "roots" of a legal system affects it's content pretty heavily. Analyzing your post would lead me to the conclusion that, to you, that seems less relevant since you perceive a seed of "natural law" that "makes sense" to all logical well-rounded humans (eg murder). that hypothesis is pretty shaky, to say the least.

addendum- I just popped my religious thread cherry. now comes the walk of shame.

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#50 scorch-62
Member since 2006 • 29763 Posts
[QUOTE="toast_burner"]Christianity is just one of many religions. In time it will die just like tons of others have.gaming25
But it hasnt, like the tons of others. So that is incorrect.

He said "it will." There's nothing incorrect about his statement, unless you can somehow see into the future.