My mom keeps putting christian stuff in my room...and im not christian

Ask her to stop it.. if not, it's her house so live with it.

A. Way to dodge the point that what she's doing is a psychologically unhealthy manner in which to conduct oneself.

B. Believe me, she can be intimidated by them. He's not going to church, that's way more than enough for most parents to be intimidated by. Like I said, many religious people build heir beliefs on a system of communal reinforcement, their natural inclination is to attack any behavior that runs counter to their beliefs, but when it's their own child they're at a loss of what to do. That intimidates them, and they lash out by trying to re-assert control.

C. A room is a personal living space, if they want to grant use of that living space then they are essentially ceding control of the room to the child short of any illegal activity. If they feel they need to charge for that then they are within their rights, but obviously they don't as he had been living there without paying rent presumably under some sort of agreement having to do with school. This is even legally supported, if they threw him out on the street tomorrow he could sue them and win based on a spoken word contract that he was allowed use of the room and was thrown out without given proper time to find other living arrangements. Either he pays for rent because he's an adult, or he doesn't because he's going to school and needs help, his choices of decoration are a completely seperate issue.

theone86

B No....that's not intimidation....it's just wanting her son to go to church. She could just think he's lazy. You are making assumptions about why she does what she does. See A.

C. No they aren't ceding control. They are allowing him a room in their house. It is their house. Again.....he's an ADULT. If he doesn't like the living arrangements...instead of complaining, he should move out.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Completely not the issue, a room is a personal space for an individual, a sanctuary. If they cannot find another place where they can be comfortable, a room is the one place where they can. If a parent chooses to lettheir adult child stay there for free that's their business, but if they do so they do with the understanding that this is an independent person with independent needs and that they are granting use of that roomto that independent person. If they feel they deserve to be paid for providing that room then that is fine, under the condition that they are not doing so in order to manipulate their child's belief as that's unethical on just about any level I can think of.

That's not the issue, though, the issue is that the mother is intimidated by her son's beliefs, that she feels out of control, so she's doing everything she can think of to re-exert control, and one of the last outlets she has to do so is owning the house. It's just not right or healthy to do so, though, not only is she psychologically torturing her son, she's repressing difficult feelings of her own and throwing off her own mental health. It simply is not a healthy thing to do, any psychiatrist will tell you that on any level trying to barter with people to get them to change is one of the most massive red flags you can set off. The house and his living there is secondary to the issue at hand, that's what's getting lost in all this.

theone86

A. Way to dodge the point that what she's doing is a psychologically unhealthy manner in which to conduct oneself.

B. Believe me, she can be intimidated by them. He's not going to church, that's way more than enough for most parents to be intimidated by. Like I said, many religious people build heir beliefs on a system of communal reinforcement, their natural inclination is to attack any behavior that runs counter to their beliefs, but when it's their own child they're at a loss of what to do. That intimidates them, and they lash out by trying to re-assert control.

C. A room is a personal living space, if they want to grant use of that living space then they are essentially ceding control of the room to the child short of any illegal activity. If they feel they need to charge for that then they are within their rights, but obviously they don't as he had been living there without paying rent presumably under some sort of agreement having to do with school. This is even legally supported, if they threw him out on the street tomorrow he could sue them and win based on a spoken word contract that he was allowed use of the room and was thrown out without given proper time to find other living arrangements. Either he pays for rent because he's an adult, or he doesn't because he's going to school and needs help, his choices of decoration are a completely seperate issue.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

A. Way to dodge the point that what she's doing is a psychologically unhealthy manner in which to conduct oneself.

B. Believe me, she can be intimidated by them. He's not going to church, that's way more than enough for most parents to be intimidated by. Like I said, many religious people build heir beliefs on a system of communal reinforcement, their natural inclination is to attack any behavior that runs counter to their beliefs, but when it's their own child they're at a loss of what to do. That intimidates them, and they lash out by trying to re-assert control.

C. A room is a personal living space, if they want to grant use of that living space then they are essentially ceding control of the room to the child short of any illegal activity. If they feel they need to charge for that then they are within their rights, but obviously they don't as he had been living there without paying rent presumably under some sort of agreement having to do with school. This is even legally supported, if they threw him out on the street tomorrow he could sue them and win based on a spoken word contract that he was allowed use of the room and was thrown out without given proper time to find other living arrangements. Either he pays for rent because he's an adult, or he doesn't because he's going to school and needs help, his choices of decoration are a completely seperate issue.

LJS9502_basic

B No....that's not intimidation....it's just wanting her son to go to church. She could just think he's lazy. You are making assumptions about why she does what she does. See A.

C. No they aren't ceding control. They are allowing him a room in their house. It is their house. Again.....he's an ADULT. If he doesn't like the living arrangements...instead of complaining, he should move out.

B. And thats where discussion should be had. Obviously the mother knows not how to have a discussion with her own child and in stead resorts to threats.

C. And here is where a parent is obviously equated to a landlord. What an awesome family "vision"....

Is it just me or does life suck ass, i mean really i just feel that i would rather be dead than living not just over this whole mom thing i just dont see the point to living. It would be simpler if i had money to get my own place oh yeah i have to work for that... yeah i know im sounding really lazy right now but i guess its a combination of depression and playing video games being my only hobby. I actually want a job but havent really applied that much anyway my brother has been working for years now and he is 20 and he doesnt have any plans of moving out anytime soon, maybe he doesnt want to but im pretty sure the main reason is financial.

CUDCUD

.....

stop moping. Of course it would be simple for everyone if they got money, but this is the way life is and you have to work for it. Get off your ass and do something

Its only a bedroom. Living with parents requires compromise, especially when you're the age you are. I'm sure there are many other quirks that you have to grin and bear, like the rest of us did/are doing/will have to.

A. Commenting on her actions as ones that create an unhealthy environment isnt commenting about her mental state.

B. And thats where discussion should be had. Obviously the mother knows not how to have a discussion with her own child and in stead resorts to threats.

C. And here is where a parent is obviously equated to a landlord. What an awesome family "vision"....

Teenaged

B. I find that in the case of listening to only one side of the story one tends to miss out on what actually happened. You can't take everything he said as gospel....and yes pun intended.....without hearing the other side of the story. That's why court cases are tried with BOTH sides responding and not just the one.

C. He'a an adult.....not a child. If he doesn't like that his mom thinks he's still religious.....and since he hasn't sat down and told her he isn't.....and finds offense in her moving a bible....he needs to leave.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

A. Commenting on her actions as ones that create an unhealthy environment isnt commenting about her mental state.

B. And thats where discussion should be had. Obviously the mother knows not how to have a discussion with her own child and in stead resorts to threats.

C. And here is where a parent is obviously equated to a landlord. What an awesome family "vision"....

LJS9502_basic

B. I find that in the case of listening to only one side of the story one tends to miss out on what actually happened. You can't take everything he said as gospel....and yes pun intended.....without hearing the other side of the story. That's why court cases are tried with BOTH sides responding and not just the one.

C. He'a an adult.....not a child. If he doesn't like that his mom thinks he's still religious.....and since he hasn't sat down and told her he isn't.....and finds offense in her moving a bible....he needs to leave.

Heck yes I would feel the same! I am seriously surprised you doubt that.

B. Then lets allow the TC to clarify. So TC, has your mother had any discussion with you?

And in the scenario that she did, how does that justify resorting to threats for something that is not unreasonable of a child to do? Even a child who is a theist could probably feel uncomfortable with their mother turning their room into a mini-church (exaggeration here).

C.The fact that he hasnt told her means nothing. Perhaps he feels uncomfortable talking to her about it, especially after what she has just done. Is that so illogical?

Well, some people, LJ, think that family is something more than that. Not just a relationship like the one between someone who lives in a rented place and the housekeeper. Like I said, its a matter of idiosyncrasy.

He doesnt need to leave. Parents arent always right.

Just keep asking her the questions that christians can't answer such as: how old is the earth? (for the really religious, i'm assuming your mum is) What came before god? why is god such a good person if he orders people to commit genocide?

Ask all those, tell her that science is fact and christianity is just myth and superstition, and leave home. Someone who doesn't respect you own beliefs/non-beliefs don't deserve to be respected, even if it's your mum.

"Mum, could you please not place your religious paraphenalia around my room? I find it incredibly offensive to my philosophical and religious beliefs. I understand that you would rather I lead a Christian lifestyle, but it just isn't for me. However, I will still be respectful of your ornaments around the home and of your own beliefs, and I expect to be treated in the same way."

This could help.

freek666

OH NOES!!!! You have to actually look at religious stuff. How horrible that must be for you (despite not being made to interact with it).

Seriously though it's not your house and thus not your rules.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

A. Way to dodge the point that what she's doing is a psychologically unhealthy manner in which to conduct oneself.

B. Believe me, she can be intimidated by them. He's not going to church, that's way more than enough for most parents to be intimidated by. Like I said, many religious people build heir beliefs on a system of communal reinforcement, their natural inclination is to attack any behavior that runs counter to their beliefs, but when it's their own child they're at a loss of what to do. That intimidates them, and they lash out by trying to re-assert control.

C. A room is a personal living space, if they want to grant use of that living space then they are essentially ceding control of the room to the child short of any illegal activity. If they feel they need to charge for that then they are within their rights, but obviously they don't as he had been living there without paying rent presumably under some sort of agreement having to do with school. This is even legally supported, if they threw him out on the street tomorrow he could sue them and win based on a spoken word contract that he was allowed use of the room and was thrown out without given proper time to find other living arrangements. Either he pays for rent because he's an adult, or he doesn't because he's going to school and needs help, his choices of decoration are a completely seperate issue.

LJS9502_basic

B No....that's not intimidation....it's just wanting her son to go to church. She could just think he's lazy. You are making assumptions about why she does what she does. See A.

C. No they aren't ceding control. They are allowing him a room in their house. It is their house. Again.....he's an ADULT. If he doesn't like the living arrangements...instead of complaining, he should move out.

A. I think I'm perfectly qualified to judge her mental state based on the fact that I take very naturally to psychiatric matters and that I've been in this situation with my own family before. Maybe the description of her behavior is not accurate, but based on that description it is very possible to accurately analyze behavior patterns. Repression, control complex, exerting control as a defense mechanism, fear of the unkown, in this case foreign beliefs, spiritual conflict between personal beliefs and those of her son. I'm not just pulling all this out of my rear end here, she's exhibiting classic symptoms of certain psychiatric conditions that are very readily apparant to third parties.

B. If it were a want she would be perfectly fine not getting what she wants, but she's not. What she's doing is going beyond that, she's not getting what she wants so she's going to other methods to attain what she wants because she can't accept not getting what she wants. That's psychologically unhealthy, especially when what she wants is for someone to change who they are to fit what she thinks they should be. That indicates somethign deeper, a fear, a fear of someone who is intimately close to her being so far apart from what she believes. Religion can and does in many cases generate this sort of xenophobic environment, many religious people do not even like to consider the possibility that they are wrong, much less have to live in the same house as someone who reminds them that they might be wrong. They aren't trained to deal with that type of thing, they are taught to attack that which mgiht threaten their beliefs, but how do you attack your own son? It's a situation she's never been prepared for and it is intimidating to her.

C. Every legal definition states that when someone is allowed to live in a room they essentially have control of that room short of legal and safety concerns. That's what a room is, otherwise he could just sleep on a couch or in a sleeping bag somewhere. A room is a personal space where one can experience privacy and make themselves comfortable in their surroundings. Having those things hanging up in the room doesn't even affect the parents, they don't even have to ever be in the room if they don't want to, yet the child has to look at them every day. If they don't want him to control what goes up in his room then they shouldn't give him a room, but it is a reasonable expectation that if you allow use of the room the choice decor will be up to the person using it.

Can you please be around more often and post A LOT MORE!?!?! :x

Teenaged

If you agree to show your face in foreign lands a lot more.

if you are an atheist then the bible should be nothing more then a book to you and should not irritate you to the point that you cannot sleep over it being in your presense

[QUOTE="ScreamDream"]

Somebody has to be be in charge in a parents house. It's as simple as that. Yes, she can make a deal but she doesn't have to argue. A parent can give respect if the child wants to try out for the basketball team, etc. I'm not talking about slavery. But if there is a disagreement, it's the parent who should be in charge. That's part of the problem these days with kids being in gangs, no curfew, etc. Some parents don't care. Somebody has to be in charge and it's the parent. When you get a child, I hope you remember some of this. You don't want your child doing as theyplease.

Cenerune

Being in charge = oppressing and forcing you views now? Stop taking things way out of context, like I said over and over it's about personal beliefs here not about a parent laying off a child and letting it do whatever the hell he want with his life whether it's joining a gang, stealing and doing drugs. There's a limit to letting your child do whatever he wants but when it comes to religious beliefs, I think he has a right to express himself don't he?

I hope if you have a child, you understand this. Your just gonna end up breaking the relationship AND the kid himself by forcing your views and opinions upon him. He's 18 btw, I think he's old enough to know what he wants and I really doubt his mother could stop him from being in a gang if he wanted to. You treat this as if it was about a 12 years old kid we're talking about and being way over dramatic in your approach. Protecting your children is different than opressing him, in this case he's being oppressed rather than protected.

When he moves out, he can bea grown man with his own views. Placing some things in his room is not forcing her views. Perhaps she has a reason also. Take the kid to a family counselor and that will end it fast. Of course the child would have to pay and his mother would have to agree. But the child would lose quickly in front of a counselor.

If you agree to show your face in foreign lands a lot more.

theone86

*excuse No1*

*excuse No2*

AND!

*excuse No3*

:P

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

A. Commenting on her actions as ones that create an unhealthy environment isnt commenting about her mental state.

B. And thats where discussion should be had. Obviously the mother knows not how to have a discussion with her own child and in stead resorts to threats.

C. And here is where a parent is obviously equated to a landlord. What an awesome family "vision"....

LJS9502_basic

B. I find that in the case of listening to only one side of the story one tends to miss out on what actually happened. You can't take everything he said as gospel....and yes pun intended.....without hearing the other side of the story. That's why court cases are tried with BOTH sides responding and not just the one.

C. He'a an adult.....not a child. If he doesn't like that his mom thinks he's still religious.....and since he hasn't sat down and told her he isn't.....and finds offense in her moving a bible....he needs to leave.

You're trying to control someone's personality by threatening, that's psychologically unhealthy. Threatening is no way to try and obtain anything in a relatinship, much less to try and change someone's spirituality. I garuntee if these two went to a psychiatrist and asked what the problem was the first thing any good psychiatrist would say right off the bat is do not try to get people to change by threatening them, especially with something as personal as spirituality. It is patently psychologically unhealthy.

And I can't believe you even asked the second question, hell yes I would be offended, that's completely manipulative. I don't like religion very much at all, in fact I think the world would be better off without it, but everyone has the right to believe what they want to believe and to practice those beliefs, for any parent, religious or otherwise, to try and prevent their adult child from reading a religious text is just as bad as trying to force a religious text them, and the fact that she's trying to use monetary threats to do so makes it even worse.

Burn it!

(note I haven't read any other posts in this topic)

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]A. I don't think anyone here is qualified to judge her mental state.

B No....that's not intimidation....it's just wanting her son to go to church. She could just think he's lazy. You are making assumptions about why she does what she does. See A.

C. No they aren't ceding control. They are allowing him a room in their house. It is their house. Again.....he's an ADULT. If he doesn't like the living arrangements...instead of complaining, he should move out.

theone86

A. I think I'm perfectly qualified to judge her mental state based on the fact that I take very naturally to psychiatric matters and that I've been in this situation with my own family before. Maybe the description of her behavior is not accurate, but based on that description it is very possible to accurately analyze behavior patterns. Repression, control complex, exerting control as a defense mechanism, fear of the unkown, in this case foreign beliefs, spiritual conflict between personal beliefs and those of her son. I'm not just pulling all this out of my rear end here, she's exhibiting classic symptoms of certain psychiatric conditions that are very readily apparant to third parties.

B. If it were a want she would be perfectly fine not getting what she wants, but she's not. What she's doing is going beyond that, she's not getting what she wants so she's going to other methods to attain what she wants because she can't accept not getting what she wants. That's psychologically unhealthy, especially when what she wants is for someone to change who they are to fit what she thinks they should be. That indicates somethign deeper, a fear, a fear of someone who is intimately close to her being so far apart from what she believes. Religion can and does in many cases generate this sort of xenophobic environment, many religious people do not even like to consider the possibility that they are wrong, much less have to live in the same house as someone who reminds them that they might be wrong. They aren't trained to deal with that type of thing, they are taught to attack that which mgiht threaten their beliefs, but how do you attack your own son? It's a situation she's never been prepared for and it is intimidating to her.

C. Every legal definition states that when someone is allowed to live in a room they essentially have control of that room short of legal and safety concerns. That's what a room is, otherwise he could just sleep on a couch or in a sleeping bag somewhere. A room is a personal space where one can experience privacy and make themselves comfortable in their surroundings. Having those things hanging up in the room doesn't even affect the parents, they don't even have to ever be in the room if they don't want to, yet the child has to look at them every day. If they don't want him to control what goes up in his room then they shouldn't give him a room, but it is a reasonable expectation that if you allow use of the room the choice decor will be up to the person using it.

Can you please be around more often and post A LOT MORE!?!?! :x

Teenaged

If you agree to show your face in foreign lands a lot more.

A few bits of Christian paraphernalia in the room and one-off visit to the Church and she's an oppressive mother? Really – he may be 18 but in his mothers eyes he's still a child (and will no doubt be for a few frustrating years to come). She's merely trying to instill in him what she believes in right, as she has done all of her life irrespective of whether he's 10 or 18. He's at an age where he's trying to find his own adult identity and the 2 opposing perspectives jar with each other. I really don't think he should worry about it as its merely growing pains we ca see in families everywhere. Wait until he leaves home and has to fend for himself and it'll all seem trivial in hindsight.

When he moves out, he can bea grown man with his own views. Placing some things in his room is not forcing her views. Perhaps she has a reason also. Take the kid to a family counselor and that will end it fast. Of course the child would have to pay and his mother would have to agree. But the child would lose quickly in front of a counselor.

ScreamDream

And the point here is what exactly? That you can't be a grown up when staying with your parents and share an opinion as well as beliefs that they don't?

In case you didn't know, in some parts of the world and in other cultures, families live together rather than all going in their separated ways. Does that mean they should all share the householder's beliefs and opinions like they are facts? Families evolve as a whole and so do people in their personal beliefs because of these very conflicts, his mom might end up understanding him better and getting closer to him or she might understand the world better through his views and opinions than she would by secluding herself within her own world of beliefs and opinions. In any case, sucking it up and leaving if you don't like it is probably the worse possible thing one could do and it doesn't solve anything.

Placing things in his room is an invasion of privacy and an undermining way to achieve her goals. It's a way to indirectly tell him a message but at the same time, it's up to him to sit and talk with her, not a counselor. It's a pretty poor approach when the very basic thing that should be between 2 related individuals such as communication needs to be done through professionals.

No offense but it seems some of you guys in this thread just make it sound like it's perfectly normal to break any bonds you have with your parents and head off your own way without afterthoughts.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]A. I don't think anyone here is qualified to judge her mental state.

B No....that's not intimidation....it's just wanting her son to go to church. She could just think he's lazy. You are making assumptions about why she does what she does. See A.

C. No they aren't ceding control. They are allowing him a room in their house. It is their house. Again.....he's an ADULT. If he doesn't like the living arrangements...instead of complaining, he should move out.

poptart

A. I think I'm perfectly qualified to judge her mental state based on the fact that I take very naturally to psychiatric matters and that I've been in this situation with my own family before. Maybe the description of her behavior is not accurate, but based on that description it is very possible to accurately analyze behavior patterns. Repression, control complex, exerting control as a defense mechanism, fear of the unkown, in this case foreign beliefs, spiritual conflict between personal beliefs and those of her son. I'm not just pulling all this out of my rear end here, she's exhibiting classic symptoms of certain psychiatric conditions that are very readily apparant to third parties.

B. If it were a want she would be perfectly fine not getting what she wants, but she's not. What she's doing is going beyond that, she's not getting what she wants so she's going to other methods to attain what she wants because she can't accept not getting what she wants. That's psychologically unhealthy, especially when what she wants is for someone to change who they are to fit what she thinks they should be. That indicates somethign deeper, a fear, a fear of someone who is intimately close to her being so far apart from what she believes. Religion can and does in many cases generate this sort of xenophobic environment, many religious people do not even like to consider the possibility that they are wrong, much less have to live in the same house as someone who reminds them that they might be wrong. They aren't trained to deal with that type of thing, they are taught to attack that which mgiht threaten their beliefs, but how do you attack your own son? It's a situation she's never been prepared for and it is intimidating to her.

C. Every legal definition states that when someone is allowed to live in a room they essentially have control of that room short of legal and safety concerns. That's what a room is, otherwise he could just sleep on a couch or in a sleeping bag somewhere. A room is a personal space where one can experience privacy and make themselves comfortable in their surroundings. Having those things hanging up in the room doesn't even affect the parents, they don't even have to ever be in the room if they don't want to, yet the child has to look at them every day. If they don't want him to control what goes up in his room then they shouldn't give him a room, but it is a reasonable expectation that if you allow use of the room the choice decor will be up to the person using it.

A few bits of Christian paraphernalia in the room and one-off visit to the Church and she's an oppressive mother? Really – he may be 18 but in his mothers eyes he's still a child (and will no doubt be for a few frustrating years to come). She's merely trying to instill in him what she believes in right, as she has done all of her life irrespective of whether he's 10 or 18. He's at an age where he's trying to find his own adult identity and the 2 opposing perspectives jar with each other. I really don't think he should worry about it as its merely growing pains we ca see in families everywhere. Wait until he leaves home and has to fend for himself and it'll all seem trivial in hindsight.

I don't think I said oppressive anywhere. Overbearing, repressed, intimidated, all yes, but not oppressive. The issue here is not the thigns themselves, the issue is that she's exhibiting these behaviors. If he ever wants to have a rational relationship with his mother he'll be upfront with her and tell her that she just has to face the fact that he has different beliefs, or at least that he's not going to chuech and he's not keeping the religious decor up. If not he runs the risk of having a mother who simply projects what she wants to see onto him or even worse becomes manipulative when he exhibits behavior she doesn't like. And if the thigns aren't an issue then why do they need to be up at all? That's the point of having those religious symbols up, is they send a very clear message to people who view them. Some people don't like having to look at that, so why is it imperative that he not only look at the religious symbols while in the house, but also within the confines of his own room?

Buy her a copy of The God Delusion, and put it in her room.Bourbons3

[

A. I think I'm perfectly qualified to judge her mental state based on the fact that I take very naturally to psychiatric matters and that I've been in this situation with my own family before. Maybe the description of her behavior is not accurate, but based on that description it is very possible to accurately analyze behavior patterns. Repression, control complex, exerting control as a defense mechanism, fear of the unkown, in this case foreign beliefs, spiritual conflict between personal beliefs and those of her son. I'm not just pulling all this out of my rear end here, she's exhibiting classic symptoms of certain psychiatric conditions that are very readily apparant to third parties.

B. If it were a want she would be perfectly fine not getting what she wants, but she's not. What she's doing is going beyond that, she's not getting what she wants so she's going to other methods to attain what she wants because she can't accept not getting what she wants. That's psychologically unhealthy, especially when what she wants is for someone to change who they are to fit what she thinks they should be. That indicates somethign deeper, a fear, a fear of someone who is intimately close to her being so far apart from what she believes. Religion can and does in many cases generate this sort of xenophobic environment, many religious people do not even like to consider the possibility that they are wrong, much less have to live in the same house as someone who reminds them that they might be wrong. They aren't trained to deal with that type of thing, they are taught to attack that which mgiht threaten their beliefs, but how do you attack your own son? It's a situation she's never been prepared for and it is intimidating to her.

C. Every legal definition states that when someone is allowed to live in a room they essentially have control of that room short of legal and safety concerns. That's what a room is, otherwise he could just sleep on a couch or in a sleeping bag somewhere. A room is a personal space where one can experience privacy and make themselves comfortable in their surroundings. Having those things hanging up in the room doesn't even affect the parents, they don't even have to ever be in the room if they don't want to, yet the child has to look at them every day. If they don't want him to control what goes up in his room then

theone86

B. You don't know what she wants or thinks. You are making this basis on a third parties biased observations.

C. If he was paying rent...he's not.

Just tell her the truth. Can't be as hard as me telling my catholic mom I'm gay I'm still living with her.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

A. Commenting on her actions as ones that create an unhealthy environment isnt commenting about her mental state.

B. And thats where discussion should be had. Obviously the mother knows not how to have a discussion with her own child and in stead resorts to threats.

C. And here is where a parent is obviously equated to a landlord. What an awesome family "vision"....

Teenaged

B. I find that in the case of listening to only one side of the story one tends to miss out on what actually happened. You can't take everything he said as gospel....and yes pun intended.....without hearing the other side of the story. That's why court cases are tried with BOTH sides responding and not just the one.

C. He'a an adult.....not a child. If he doesn't like that his mom thinks he's still religious.....and since he hasn't sat down and told her he isn't.....and finds offense in her moving a bible....he needs to leave.

Heck yes I would feel the same! I am seriously surprised you doubt that.

B. Then lets allow the TC to clarify. So TC, has your mother had any discussion with you?

And in the scenario that she did, how does that justify resorting to threats for something that is not unreasonable of a child to do? Even a child who is a theist could probably feel uncomfortable with their mother turning their room into a mini-church (exaggeration here).

C.The fact that he hasnt told her means nothing. Perhaps he feels uncomfortable talking to her about it, especially after what she has just done. Is that so illogical?

Well, some people, LJ, think that family is something more than that. Not just a relationship like the one between someone who lives in a rented place and the housekeeper. Like I said, its a matter of idiosyncrasy.

He doesnt need to leave. Parents arent always right.

[QUOTE="ScreamDream"]

When he moves out, he can bea grown man with his own views. Placing some things in his room is not forcing her views. Perhaps she has a reason also. Take the kid to a family counselor and that will end it fast. Of course the child would have to pay and his mother would have to agree. But the child would lose quickly in front of a counselor.

Cenerune

And the point here is what exactly? That you can't be a grown up when staying with your parents and share an opinion as well as beliefs that they don't?

In case you didn't know, in some parts of the world and in other cultures, families live together rather than all going in their separated ways. Does that mean they should all share the householder's beliefs and opinions like they are facts? Families evolve as a whole and so do people in their personal beliefs because of these very conflicts, his mom might end up understanding him better and getting closer to him or she might understand the world better through his views and opinions than she would by secluding herself within her own world of beliefs and opinions. In any case, sucking it up and leaving if you don't like it is probably the worse possible thing one could do and it doesn't solve anything.

Placing things in his room is an invasion of privacy and an undermining way to achieve her goals. It's a way to indirectly tell him a message but at the same time, it's up to him to sit and talk with her, not a counselor. It's a pretty poor approach when the very basic thing that should be between 2 related individuals such as communication needs to be done through professionals.

No offense but it seems some of you guys in this thread just make it sound like it's perfectly normal to break any bonds you have with your parents and head off your own way without afterthoughts.

I can't get through to you so I'll stand by saying to go to a family counselor. My posts are repeated by others in this thread also.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[

A. I think I'm perfectly qualified to judge her mental state based on the fact that I take very naturally to psychiatric matters and that I've been in this situation with my own family before. Maybe the description of her behavior is not accurate, but based on that description it is very possible to accurately analyze behavior patterns. Repression, control complex, exerting control as a defense mechanism, fear of the unkown, in this case foreign beliefs, spiritual conflict between personal beliefs and those of her son. I'm not just pulling all this out of my rear end here, she's exhibiting classic symptoms of certain psychiatric conditions that are very readily apparant to third parties.

B. If it were a want she would be perfectly fine not getting what she wants, but she's not. What she's doing is going beyond that, she's not getting what she wants so she's going to other methods to attain what she wants because she can't accept not getting what she wants. That's psychologically unhealthy, especially when what she wants is for someone to change who they are to fit what she thinks they should be. That indicates somethign deeper, a fear, a fear of someone who is intimately close to her being so far apart from what she believes. Religion can and does in many cases generate this sort of xenophobic environment, many religious people do not even like to consider the possibility that they are wrong, much less have to live in the same house as someone who reminds them that they might be wrong. They aren't trained to deal with that type of thing, they are taught to attack that which mgiht threaten their beliefs, but how do you attack your own son? It's a situation she's never been prepared for and it is intimidating to her.

C. Every legal definition states that when someone is allowed to live in a room they essentially have control of that room short of legal and safety concerns. That's what a room is, otherwise he could just sleep on a couch or in a sleeping bag somewhere. A room is a personal space where one can experience privacy and make themselves comfortable in their surroundings. Having those things hanging up in the room doesn't even affect the parents, they don't even have to ever be in the room if they don't want to, yet the child has to look at them every day. If they don't want him to control what goes up in his room then

LJS9502_basic

B. You don't know what she wants or thinks. You are making this basis on a third parties biased observations.

C. If he was paying rent...he's not.

B. Same as above. We are ALL discussing the issue presuming he is telling the truth. In the end we are just using this as an example for family relationships. Whether or not the story is true doesnt matter on the opinions we have on each scenario. Challenging the credibility of the words of the TC means nothing, since we are all judging a scnario, not something we have viewed with our own eyes.

But still even if we didnt, you too, when you say that 'he has to put up with it or leave' (without any clarification) you are presuming he is telling the truth, arent you? So point = moot.

C. Which again like I said to you twice is dependant on idiosyncrasy. For some people their parents are not just their housekeepers. They're something more.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]A. Other than telling him if he doesn't go to church she'll unplug his computer....she hasn't done anything. And if you read the OP...he said she doesn't know he's atheist. There is nothing psychologically wrong with anything she did. Would you feel the same about his mom if he was Christian and she was atheist and was taking his bible from him?

B. I find that in the case of listening to only one side of the story one tends to miss out on what actually happened. You can't take everything he said as gospel....and yes pun intended.....without hearing the other side of the story. That's why court cases are tried with BOTH sides responding and not just the one.

C. He'a an adult.....not a child. If he doesn't like that his mom thinks he's still religious.....and since he hasn't sat down and told her he isn't.....and finds offense in her moving a bible....he needs to leave.

CUDCUD

Heck yes I would feel the same! I am seriously surprised you doubt that.

B. Then lets allow the TC to clarify. So TC, has your mother had any discussion with you?

And in the scenario that she did, how does that justify resorting to threats for something that is not unreasonable of a child to do? Even a child who is a theist could probably feel uncomfortable with their mother turning their room into a mini-church (exaggeration here).

C.The fact that he hasnt told her means nothing. Perhaps he feels uncomfortable talking to her about it, especially after what she has just done. Is that so illogical?

Well, some people, LJ, think that family is something more than that. Not just a relationship like the one between someone who lives in a rented place and the housekeeper. Like I said, its a matter of idiosyncrasy.

He doesnt need to leave. Parents arent always right.

[spoiler] Well, not really but you get the poiint. [/spoiler]

A. You though support your views on this scenario even if it is fake. Therefore, whether or not it is fake doesnt change the critique one can apply on a certain approach.

B. Same as above. We are ALL discussing the issue presuming he is telling the truth. In the end we are just using this as an example for family relationships. Whether or not the story is true doesnt matter on the opinions we have on each scenario. Challenging the credibility of the words of the TC means nothing, since we are all judging a scnario, not something we have viewed with our own eyes.

But still even if we didnt, you too, when you say that 'he has to put up with it or leave' (without any clarification) you are presuming he is telling the truth, arent you? So point = moot.

C. Which again like I said to you twice is dependant on idiosyncrasy. For some people their parents are not just their housekeepers. They're something more.

Teenaged

B. Why would anyone take one side of an incident and assume it's the truth? Ever hear the saying they are three sides to every story? It's accurate. Taking one person's word as absolute truth does NOT mean one arrives at the correct conclusion.

C. Again....adults that DON'T like living arrangements make their own. Your rant on housekeepers notwithstanding.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

A. You though support your views on this scenario even if it is fake. Therefore, whether or not it is fake doesnt change the critique one can apply on a certain approach.

B. Same as above. We are ALL discussing the issue presuming he is telling the truth. In the end we are just using this as an example for family relationships. Whether or not the story is true doesnt matter on the opinions we have on each scenario. Challenging the credibility of the words of the TC means nothing, since we are all judging a scnario, not something we have viewed with our own eyes.

But still even if we didnt, you too, when you say that 'he has to put up with it or leave' (without any clarification) you are presuming he is telling the truth, arent you? So point = moot.

C. Which again like I said to you twice is dependant on idiosyncrasy. For some people their parents are not just their housekeepers. They're something more.

LJS9502_basic

B. Why would anyone take one side of an incident and assume it's the truth? Ever hear the saying they are three sides to every story? It's accurate. Taking one person's word as absolute truth does NOT mean one arrives at the correct conclusion.

C. Again....adults that DON'T like living arrangements make their own. Your rant on housekeepers notwithstanding.

A psychiatrist/psychologist would be the first to say it's impossible to make a basis on a mental state over what someon's child wrote on the internet.

My comment is relevant. Of course we havent met his mother. We are ALL making out what we can from the little we know.

B. So I assume you dont hold those beliefs of yours in case the TC is saying the truth and nothing but the truth? Because if you do, then bringing up the point you just did is hypocritical. You are only whining about the TCs accuracy about the harsh things he has said about his mother while I assume you would have no problem challenging other piece of information he has given.

C. Thats your idiosyncrasy. Plain and simple.

My rant is perfectly withstanding. If you think it isnt, show us how.

All of your statements on the issue hint towards exactly that sort of relationship, and nothing more. If you would like, be more elaborate with your wordings.

[QUOTE="poptart"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

A. I think I'm perfectly qualified to judge her mental state based on the fact that I take very naturally to psychiatric matters and that I've been in this situation with my own family before. Maybe the description of her behavior is not accurate, but based on that description it is very possible to accurately analyze behavior patterns. Repression, control complex, exerting control as a defense mechanism, fear of the unkown, in this case foreign beliefs, spiritual conflict between personal beliefs and those of her son. I'm not just pulling all this out of my rear end here, she's exhibiting classic symptoms of certain psychiatric conditions that are very readily apparant to third parties.

B. If it were a want she would be perfectly fine not getting what she wants, but she's not. What she's doing is going beyond that, she's not getting what she wants so she's going to other methods to attain what she wants because she can't accept not getting what she wants. That's psychologically unhealthy, especially when what she wants is for someone to change who they are to fit what she thinks they should be. That indicates somethign deeper, a fear, a fear of someone who is intimately close to her being so far apart from what she believes. Religion can and does in many cases generate this sort of xenophobic environment, many religious people do not even like to consider the possibility that they are wrong, much less have to live in the same house as someone who reminds them that they might be wrong. They aren't trained to deal with that type of thing, they are taught to attack that which mgiht threaten their beliefs, but how do you attack your own son? It's a situation she's never been prepared for and it is intimidating to her.

C. Every legal definition states that when someone is allowed to live in a room they essentially have control of that room short of legal and safety concerns. That's what a room is, otherwise he could just sleep on a couch or in a sleeping bag somewhere. A room is a personal space where one can experience privacy and make themselves comfortable in their surroundings. Having those things hanging up in the room doesn't even affect the parents, they don't even have to ever be in the room if they don't want to, yet the child has to look at them every day. If they don't want him to control what goes up in his room then they shouldn't give him a room, but it is a reasonable expectation that if you allow use of the room the choice decor will be up to the person using it.

theone86

A few bits of Christian paraphernalia in the room and one-off visit to the Church and she's an oppressive mother? Really – he may be 18 but in his mothers eyes he's still a child (and will no doubt be for a few frustrating years to come). She's merely trying to instill in him what she believes in right, as she has done all of her life irrespective of whether he's 10 or 18. He's at an age where he's trying to find his own adult identity and the 2 opposing perspectives jar with each other. I really don't think he should worry about it as its merely growing pains we ca see in families everywhere. Wait until he leaves home and has to fend for himself and it'll all seem trivial in hindsight.

I don't think I said oppressive anywhere. Overbearing, repressed, intimidated, all yes, but not oppressive. The issue here is not the thigns themselves, the issue is that she's exhibiting these behaviors. If he ever wants to have a rational relationship with his mother he'll be upfront with her and tell her that she just has to face the fact that he has different beliefs, or at least that he's not going to chuech and he's not keeping the religious decor up. If not he runs the risk of having a mother who simply projects what she wants to see onto him or even worse becomes manipulative when he exhibits behavior she doesn't like. And if the thigns aren't an issue then why do they need to be up at all? That's the point of having those religious symbols up, is they send a very clear message to people who view them. Some people don't like having to look at that, so why is it imperative that he not only look at the religious symbols while in the house, but also within the confines of his own room?

As mentioned, she's exhibiting these behaviors as she has done all of her life, call it maternal instinct to provide what she foresees as the correct path to lead him into adulthood. Being told what to do in fear of punishment is standard parental practice, and one she's probably exercised since his childhood days. The one thing that's changed is his own acquisition of viewpoints as he develops his adult identity, and ones that – like most teenagers - jar with his mothers or fathers. We all reach this point during our own acquisition of identity.

Being forced to view religious imagery in his room isn't really manipulative. It's rather tame in fact, merely a mother exerting her final parental duties before he flees the nest. She's not beating him around the head, forcing him to listen to bible passages every night, taking away whatever literature or music she finds offensive, threatening to disown him if he dates a person associated with another religious discipline. No, she's popping a crucifix on his wall, and he should – if he is an adult – be mature enough to humour her. I would assume for him to feel so frustrated that he cannot sleep merely by having a bible next to him however, he's not quite there yet. He's like a million other teenagers in the midst of their angst crying how unfair such an imposition is, craving adulthood but not quite mature enough to face the world alone. In the years to come he'll realise what a mountain out of a molehill this is.

Once again, his mother has every right to decorate HER house how she sees fit. She bought the house. She paid the mortgage. She gets the right to do whatever she wants with that house.

The son has no ownership of that house. The son has no financial vestment in that house. While many parents may allow their child an active role in the upkeep or decoration of the house, it is well within the parents right to control that. There's no argument here. If he doesn't like it, he can discuss it with his parents. Some of you guys just sound like a bunch of selfish, self-entitled children that believe the world should revolve around yourself and your beliefs. Guess what? It doesn't. The world could care less about you and even further less about your views. You want something? Then act on it and achieve it. No one "owes" you anything. If this guy really has a problem with the crosses in his room - then he needs to discuss that with his family. But they still have the final word, not him. It's their property not his.

[A. No. You said:

A psychiatrist/psychologist would be the first to say it's impossible to make a basis on a mental state over what someon's child wrote on the internet.

My comment is relevant. Of course we havent met his mother. We are ALL making out what we can from the little we know.

B. So I assume you dont hold those beliefs of yours in case the TC is saying the truth and nothing but the truth? Because if you do, then bringing up the point you just did is hypocritical. You are only whining about the TCs accuracy about the harsh things he has said about his mother while I assume you would have no problem challenging other piece of information he has given.

C. Thats your idiosyncrasy. Plain and simple.

My rant is perfectly withstanding. If you think it isnt, show us how.

All of your statements on the issue hint towards exactly that sort of relationship, and nothing more. If you would like, be more elaborate with your wordings.

Teenaged

B. I'm saying in any story....there is more than one side.

C. No it's not. An adult that is unhappy makes a change.

Once again, his mother has every right to decorate HER house how she sees fit. She bought the house. She paid the mortgage. She gets the right to do whatever she wants with that house.

The son has no ownership of that house. The son has no financial vestment in that house. While many parents may allow their child an active role in the upkeep or decoration of the house, it is well within the parents right to control that. There's no argument here. If he doesn't like it, he can discuss it with his parents. Some of you guys just sound like a bunch of selfish, self-entitled children that believe the world should revolve around yourself and your beliefs. Guess what? It doesn't. The world could care less about you and even further less about your views. You want something? Then act on it and achieve it. No one "owes" you anything. If this guy really has a problem with the crosses in his room - then he needs to discuss that with his family. But they still have the final word, not him. It's their property not his.

sonicare

Asking for respect from your parents isnt thinking that the whole revolves around you. Quite a convenient label.

And here comes again the familiar housekeeper setting. I dont know, I guess I have a completely different view of what family is.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]A. Other than telling him if he doesn't go to church she'll unplug his computer....she hasn't done anything. And if you read the OP...he said she doesn't know he's atheist. There is nothing psychologically wrong with anything she did. Would you feel the same about his mom if he was Christian and she was atheist and was taking his bible from him?

B. I find that in the case of listening to only one side of the story one tends to miss out on what actually happened. You can't take everything he said as gospel....and yes pun intended.....without hearing the other side of the story. That's why court cases are tried with BOTH sides responding and not just the one.

C. He'a an adult.....not a child. If he doesn't like that his mom thinks he's still religious.....and since he hasn't sat down and told her he isn't.....and finds offense in her moving a bible....he needs to leave.

CUDCUD

Heck yes I would feel the same! I am seriously surprised you doubt that.

B. Then lets allow the TC to clarify. So TC, has your mother had any discussion with you?

And in the scenario that she did, how does that justify resorting to threats for something that is not unreasonable of a child to do? Even a child who is a theist could probably feel uncomfortable with their mother turning their room into a mini-church (exaggeration here).

C.The fact that he hasnt told her means nothing. Perhaps he feels uncomfortable talking to her about it, especially after what she has just done. Is that so illogical?

Well, some people, LJ, think that family is something more than that. Not just a relationship like the one between someone who lives in a rented place and the housekeeper. Like I said, its a matter of idiosyncrasy.

He doesnt need to leave. Parents arent always right.

ok dude...how about pulling your pants together and tell her that you are an atheist? if she says something like "punishment!" you tell her "and im 18 years old" and if she tells you something like "Its my house!" then just move out! you dont have money for your own apartment? no problem go to your cousin/relative/friend house and stay there for a while until you gather enough money for your own place...you shouldn't be dependant of your parents anymore...and your mom should not ground you with sending to church or forcing you to become christian... im Christian...and I think that God doesnt like when someone gets forced to "believe" thats why theres the phrase "let THEM come to ME" and not "MAKE THEM COME TO ME"

but seriously...is it so...bad for you?

i had never seen any atheist who "cant sleep because I have a bible next to my bed"

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[A. No. You said:

A psychiatrist/psychologist would be the first to say it's impossible to make a basis on a mental state over what someon's child wrote on the internet.

My comment is relevant. Of course we havent met his mother. We are ALL making out what we can from the little we know.

B. So I assume you dont hold those beliefs of yours in case the TC is saying the truth and nothing but the truth? Because if you do, then bringing up the point you just did is hypocritical. You are only whining about the TCs accuracy about the harsh things he has said about his mother while I assume you would have no problem challenging other piece of information he has given.

C. Thats your idiosyncrasy. Plain and simple.

My rant is perfectly withstanding. If you think it isnt, show us how.

All of your statements on the issue hint towards exactly that sort of relationship, and nothing more. If you would like, be more elaborate with your wordings.

LJS9502_basic

B. I'm saying in any story....there is more than one side.

C. No it's not. An adult that is unhappy makes a change.

B. But here we are judging the scnario we are presented with. It is very easy in every scenario we are facing to challenge the "side" we are presented with, when one of the "protagonists" is one we relate to. Or when said "side" challenges our own idiosyncrasy.

I never challenged that there are more sides. But is it of any contribution to point that out, other than once, and then move with discussing the scenario at hand?

C. Thats not all you have said so far. The statement you made now is much more soothened and vague. Earlier you made it clear that he has no right to tell his mother how to act in her own house. In effect that is saying that he has just two choices. Deal with it or leave. With your new statement though, there are more choices. Like what? To challenge his mother over-controlling behavior.

So, did you change opinion or you did you forget to elaborate adequately?

Talk to her about your beliefs. Say that you don't feel comfortable about it and it is making you depressed.

I'm a christian but I don't go to church because it's a waste of time and I don't have to prove to people that I have faith in something I believe in. I may not believe in everything they say, but having faith in something means a lot to me.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="poptart"]

A few bits of Christian paraphernalia in the room and one-off visit to the Church and she's an oppressive mother? Really – he may be 18 but in his mothers eyes he's still a child (and will no doubt be for a few frustrating years to come). She's merely trying to instill in him what she believes in right, as she has done all of her life irrespective of whether he's 10 or 18. He's at an age where he's trying to find his own adult identity and the 2 opposing perspectives jar with each other. I really don't think he should worry about it as its merely growing pains we ca see in families everywhere. Wait until he leaves home and has to fend for himself and it'll all seem trivial in hindsight.

poptart

I don't think I said oppressive anywhere. Overbearing, repressed, intimidated, all yes, but not oppressive. The issue here is not the thigns themselves, the issue is that she's exhibiting these behaviors. If he ever wants to have a rational relationship with his mother he'll be upfront with her and tell her that she just has to face the fact that he has different beliefs, or at least that he's not going to chuech and he's not keeping the religious decor up. If not he runs the risk of having a mother who simply projects what she wants to see onto him or even worse becomes manipulative when he exhibits behavior she doesn't like. And if the thigns aren't an issue then why do they need to be up at all? That's the point of having those religious symbols up, is they send a very clear message to people who view them. Some people don't like having to look at that, so why is it imperative that he not only look at the religious symbols while in the house, but also within the confines of his own room?

As mentioned, she's exhibiting these behaviors as she has done all of her life, call it maternal instinct to provide what she foresees as the correct path to lead him into adulthood. Being told what to do in fear of punishment is standard parental practice, and one she's probably exercised since his childhood days. The one thing that's changed is his own acquisition of viewpoints as he develops his adult identity, and ones that – like most teenagers - jar with his mothers or fathers. We all reach this point during our own acquisition of identity.

Being forced to view religious imagery in his room isn't really manipulative. It's rather tame in fact, merely a mother exerting her final parental duties before he flees the nest. She's not beating him around the head, forcing him to listen to bible passages every night, taking away whatever literature or music she finds offensive, threatening to disown him if he dates a person associated with another religious discipline. No, she's popping a crucifix on his wall, and he should – if he is an adult – be mature enough to humour her. I would assume for him to feel so frustrated that he cannot sleep merely by having a bible next to him however, he's not quite there yet. He's like a million other teenagers in the midst of their angst crying how unfair such an imposition is, craving adulthood but not quite mature enough to face the world alone. In the years to come he'll realise what a mountain out of a molehill this is.

A. That's not healthy parenting unless we're talking about someone under the age of maybe eight, eventually a child needs to reach a stage where they can determine right and wrong based on more than just dogma.

B. It is psychologically manipulative, and as he said it's not just being forced to view it. She's not just forcing him to look at it, she's threatening monetary repercussions if he doesn't adhere to her belief system, what truly religious person would even consider that a valid form of trying to spread their faith?

C. She's an adult as well, how come he's expected to be mature and she's not? If you're going to say it's not a big deal for him then you can say the same thing about it not being a big deal for her either, best case scenario the arguments cancel each other out.

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

Once again, his mother has every right to decorate HER house how she sees fit. She bought the house. She paid the mortgage. She gets the right to do whatever she wants with that house.

The son has no ownership of that house. The son has no financial vestment in that house. While many parents may allow their child an active role in the upkeep or decoration of the house, it is well within the parents right to control that. There's no argument here. If he doesn't like it, he can discuss it with his parents. Some of you guys just sound like a bunch of selfish, self-entitled children that believe the world should revolve around yourself and your beliefs. Guess what? It doesn't. The world could care less about you and even further less about your views. You want something? Then act on it and achieve it. No one "owes" you anything. If this guy really has a problem with the crosses in his room - then he needs to discuss that with his family. But they still have the final word, not him. It's their property not his.

Asking for respect from your parents isnt thinking that the whole revolves around you. Quite a convenient label.

And here comes again the familiar housekeeper setting. I dont know, I guess I have a completely different view of what family is.

A. Yes they can make a judgement provided of course they dont claim to be psychiatrists themselves. Which no one did.

B. But here we are judging the scnario we are presented with. It is very easy in every scenario we are facing to challenge the "side" we are presented with, when one of the "protagonists" is one we relate to. Or when said "side" challenges our own idiosyncrasy.

I never challenged that there are more sides. But is it of any contribution to point that out, other than once, and then move with discussing the scenario at hand?

C. Thats not all you have said so far. The statement you made now is much more soothened and vague. Earlier you made it clear that he has no right to tell his mother how to act in her own house. In effect that is saying that he has just two choices. Deal with it or leave. With your new statement though, there are more choices. Like what? To challenge his mother over-controlling behavior.

So, did you change opinion or you did you forget to elaborate adequately?

Teenaged

B. Just because someone presents one side of a story does not mean it has to be believed in total or that a healthy skepticism is not warranted.

C. I never mentioned he had no right to tell his mother how she should act in her house......but he doesn't. Yes...that is his two choices...as I stated earlier...talk to his mom. Then he has to either deal with the situation or leave.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

Once again, his mother has every right to decorate HER house how she sees fit. She bought the house. She paid the mortgage. She gets the right to do whatever she wants with that house.

The son has no ownership of that house. The son has no financial vestment in that house. While many parents may allow their child an active role in the upkeep or decoration of the house, it is well within the parents right to control that. There's no argument here. If he doesn't like it, he can discuss it with his parents. Some of you guys just sound like a bunch of selfish, self-entitled children that believe the world should revolve around yourself and your beliefs. Guess what? It doesn't. The world could care less about you and even further less about your views. You want something? Then act on it and achieve it. No one "owes" you anything. If this guy really has a problem with the crosses in his room - then he needs to discuss that with his family. But they still have the final word, not him. It's their property not his.

sonicare

Asking for respect from your parents isnt thinking that the whole revolves around you. Quite a convenient label.

And here comes again the familiar housekeeper setting. I dont know, I guess I have a completely different view of what family is.

Should parent be respected just because they are parents?

In my household I had rules too, you know. My parents were very strict with all 4 of us. The difference though is that they would listen to us as well. And they didnt threaten us like that.

Not all rules are the same. There are reasonable ones and unreasonable ones. Evoking the youngsters' attitude of dismissing all rules doesnt change the fact that some of them are unreasonable of the parents to ask.

There is not just one way to impose discipline. There are good ways and there are bad ways.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

Once again, his mother has every right to decorate HER house how she sees fit. She bought the house. She paid the mortgage. She gets the right to do whatever she wants with that house.

The son has no ownership of that house. The son has no financial vestment in that house. While many parents may allow their child an active role in the upkeep or decoration of the house, it is well within the parents right to control that. There's no argument here. If he doesn't like it, he can discuss it with his parents. Some of you guys just sound like a bunch of selfish, self-entitled children that believe the world should revolve around yourself and your beliefs. Guess what? It doesn't. The world could care less about you and even further less about your views. You want something? Then act on it and achieve it. No one "owes" you anything. If this guy really has a problem with the crosses in his room - then he needs to discuss that with his family. But they still have the final word, not him. It's their property not his.

sonicare

Asking for respect from your parents isnt thinking that the whole revolves around you. Quite a convenient label.

And here comes again the familiar housekeeper setting. I dont know, I guess I have a completely different view of what family is.

Once again, his mother has every right to decorate HER house how she sees fit. She bought the house. She paid the mortgage. She gets the right to do whatever she wants with that house.

The son has no ownership of that house. The son has no financial vestment in that house. While many parents may allow their child an active role in the upkeep or decoration of the house, it is well within the parents right to control that. There's no argument here. If he doesn't like it, he can discuss it with his parents. Some of you guys just sound like a bunch of selfish, self-entitled children that believe the world should revolve around yourself and your beliefs. Guess what? It doesn't. The world could care less about you and even further less about your views. You want something? Then act on it and achieve it. No one "owes" you anything. If this guy really has a problem with the crosses in his room - then he needs to discuss that with his family. But they still have the final word, not him. It's their property not his.

sonicare

People do, legally and philosophically, have some level of ownership over their own room. Maybe ownership isn't right, it's more like he is a tenant and he has all the rights of a tenant. If the parents decide not to charge him rent that is their perrogative, but that simply means they are renting the room at a fee of nothing.

And one thing I don't get, why is everyone blowing this so far out of proportion? one person is saying this kid is going to go out and join a gang, everyone seems to be saying that just because he wants to decorate his own room he thinks the entire world revolves around him, what are you people on? He has not once indicated that he's disrespectful or that he doesn't help his parents around the house, and he is literally asking for something so simple that it doesn't even affect his parents at all whereas it affects him for whatever amounts of time he spends in his room. Again, I don't get why it's a small matter for him but a huge matter for his mother according to you.

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

Once again, his mother has every right to decorate HER house how she sees fit. She bought the house. She paid the mortgage. She gets the right to do whatever she wants with that house.

The son has no ownership of that house. The son has no financial vestment in that house. While many parents may allow their child an active role in the upkeep or decoration of the house, it is well within the parents right to control that. There's no argument here. If he doesn't like it, he can discuss it with his parents. Some of you guys just sound like a bunch of selfish, self-entitled children that believe the world should revolve around yourself and your beliefs. Guess what? It doesn't. The world could care less about you and even further less about your views. You want something? Then act on it and achieve it. No one "owes" you anything. If this guy really has a problem with the crosses in his room - then he needs to discuss that with his family. But they still have the final word, not him. It's their property not his.

theone86

People do, legally and philosophically, have some level of ownership over their own room. Maybe ownership isn't right, it's more like he is a tenant and he has all the rights of a tenant. If the parents decide not to charge him rent that is their perrogative, but that simply means they are renting the room at a fee of nothing.

And one thing I don't get, why is everyone blowing this so far out of proportion? one person is saying this kid is going to go out and join a gang, everyone seems to be saying that just because he wants to decorate his own room he thinks the entire world revolves around him, what are you people on? He has not once indicated that he's disrespectful or that he doesn't help his parents around the house, and he is literally asking for something so simple that it doesn't even affect his parents at all whereas it affects him for whatever amounts of time he spends in his room. Again, I don't get why it's a small matter for him but a huge matter for his mother according to you.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

A. Yes they can make a judgement provided of course they dont claim to be psychiatrists themselves. Which no one did.

B. But here we are judging the scnario we are presented with. It is very easy in every scenario we are facing to challenge the "side" we are presented with, when one of the "protagonists" is one we relate to. Or when said "side" challenges our own idiosyncrasy.

I never challenged that there are more sides. But is it of any contribution to point that out, other than once, and then move with discussing the scenario at hand?

C. Thats not all you have said so far. The statement you made now is much more soothened and vague. Earlier you made it clear that he has no right to tell his mother how to act in her own house. In effect that is saying that he has just two choices. Deal with it or leave. With your new statement though, there are more choices. Like what? To challenge his mother over-controlling behavior.

So, did you change opinion or you did you forget to elaborate adequately?

LJS9502_basic

B. Just because someone presents one side of a story does not mean it has to be believed in total or that a healthy skepticism is not warranted.

C. I never mentioned he had no right to tell his mother how she should act in her house......but he doesn't. Yes...that is his two choices...as I stated earlier...talk to his mom. Then he has to either deal with the situation or leave.

B. I never said the opposite....

I asked you and you didnt answer: do you hold your beliefs even if he is telling the truth? If you do, then there is no point in dismissing other people's critiques on your approach by pointing out that the TC may be lying. The discussion at this point has exceeded the confines of the TC personalstory and is now a discussion which is quite general.

C. Really? Then I guess phrases like "her house, her rules" dont imply that at all, right?

Your position seems (and correct me if I am wrong) that even after he has talked with his mother, he shouldnt ask for anything even if she disagrees with him finally.And you are telling me that my rant about landlords and housekeepers is not withstanding? Seriously?

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]I miss the point where a mother should be reasonable only if she "owes" something to her child.

Asking for respect from your parents isnt thinking that the whole revolves around you. Quite a convenient label.

And here comes again the familiar housekeeper setting. I dont know, I guess I have a completely different view of what family is.

Should parent be respected just because they are parents?

In my household I had rules too, you know. My parents were very strict with all 4 of us. The difference though is that they would listen to us as well. And they didnt threaten us like that.

Not all rules are the same. There are reasonable ones and unreasonable ones. Evoking the youngsters' attitude of dismissing all rules doesnt change the fact that some of them are unreasonable of the parents to ask.

There is not just one way to impose discipline. There are good ways and there are bad ways.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

A. Yes they can make a judgement provided of course they dont claim to be psychiatrists themselves. Which no one did.

B. But here we are judging the scnario we are presented with. It is very easy in every scenario we are facing to challenge the "side" we are presented with, when one of the "protagonists" is one we relate to. Or when said "side" challenges our own idiosyncrasy.

I never challenged that there are more sides. But is it of any contribution to point that out, other than once, and then move with discussing the scenario at hand?

C. Thats not all you have said so far. The statement you made now is much more soothened and vague. Earlier you made it clear that he has no right to tell his mother how to act in her own house. In effect that is saying that he has just two choices. Deal with it or leave. With your new statement though, there are more choices. Like what? To challenge his mother over-controlling behavior.

So, did you change opinion or you did you forget to elaborate adequately?

Teenaged

B. Just because someone presents one side of a story does not mean it has to be believed in total or that a healthy skepticism is not warranted.

C. I never mentioned he had no right to tell his mother how she should act in her house......but he doesn't. Yes...that is his two choices...as I stated earlier...talk to his mom. Then he has to either deal with the situation or leave.

B. I never said the opposite....

I asked you and you didnt answer: do you hold your beliefs even if he is telling the truth? If you do, then there is no point in dismissing other people's critiques on your approach by pointing out that the TC may be lying. The discussion at this point has exceeded the confines of the TC personalstory and is now a discussion which is quite general.

C. Really? Then I guess phrases like "her house, her rules" dont imply that at all, right?

Your position seems (and correct me if I am wrong) that even after he has talked with his mother, he shouldnt ask for anything even if she disagrees with him finally.And you are telling me that my rant about landlords and housekeepers is not withstanding? Seriously?

A. Clues that could all be lies. Unless you are using the clues to determine the user/speakers mental state...not someone without any interaction.

B. If he is telling the truth.....he should still move out if he can't live with the rules of the house.

C. That's not the what you stated above. You stated I said he had not right to tell his mother how she should act. He does not.

stop getting offended...

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"] Maybe the son should be "reasonable" and simply respect his parents wishes. He has every right to discuss the situation with his parents, but in the end they have the greater say. When I grew up, I had a certain set of rules I had to follow. My parents gave me a curfew. They expected certain chores to be done. They expected me to behave myself in a certain manner. Many kids may feel that those rules are "unreasonable" but while you live under your parents roof, you follow their rules. In the end, following those rules teaches a manner of respect and process. Certain kids simply feel like they should be allowed to do whatever they please with no consequence. One of the jobs of parents is to raise kids with some discipline and some respect.sonicare

Should parent be respected just because they are parents?

In my household I had rules too, you know. My parents were very strict with all 4 of us. The difference though is that they would listen to us as well. And they didnt threaten us like that.

Not all rules are the same. There are reasonable ones and unreasonable ones. Evoking the youngsters' attitude of dismissing all rules doesnt change the fact that some of them are unreasonable of the parents to ask.

There is not just one way to impose discipline. There are good ways and there are bad ways.

She is putting crosses in his room and threatens him if he doesnt let them there or if he doesnt go to church and whatnot. I dont know about you, but that seems like bad parenting. It is unreasonable.

But in the end, it's his parents house not his.

Wow, are we in the feudal age, or what?

Everyone doesn't have equal say.

Doesnt seem like the TC had much say in this to begin with.