Obama is no better than Bush

Conservative, Liberal, Democrat, Republican...in the end, theyre all politicians, and theyre all no better than eachother.

This is why people need to start thinking its a wasted vote and go out for a third party. We have been perpetuating this two-party system for far too long.

Conservative, Liberal, Democrat, Republican...in the end, theyre all politicians, and theyre all no better than eachother.

This is why people need to start thinking its a wasted vote and go out for a third party. We have been perpetuating this two-party system for far too long.

mrbojangles25

exactly the kind of mentality i was trying to counter earlier.

please. hear me out. i understand the anger. i understand the mistrust. i've been there, i've done that. the moment you failed was when you say things like 'they're all politicians, and they're no better than eachother', or other things to that effect. when you start to generalize the sum of any group you cease to appreciate, or be able to discern in some cases, those that are different.

there are some great politicians out there who are genuinely interested and concerned with public service. to say they are all the same belittles them... and does nothing for your own character or person apart from illustrating a misconception and willingness to broadly generalize and marginalize people based on your own, or others, preconceptions.

basically, it's silly. and if every citizen that was party to a fair democratic society rejected this notion, perhaps we wouldn't end up with leaders we don't trust. saying 'all X are the same' does nothing, in short. if you truly care - be active, participate, know who is actually out there for you - fighting for the public, to represent them. refuse? blame nobody but yourself for the current political situation.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

Conservative, Liberal, Democrat, Republican...in the end, theyre all politicians, and theyre all no better than eachother.

This is why people need to start thinking its a wasted vote and go out for a third party. We have been perpetuating this two-party system for far too long.

3picuri3

exactly the kind of mentality i was trying to counter earlier.

please. hear me out. i understand the anger. i understand the mistrust. i've been there, i've done that. the moment you failed was when you say things like 'they're all politicians, and they're no better than eachother', or other things to that effect. when you start to generalize the sum of any group you cease to appreciate, or be able to discern in some cases, those that are different.

there are some great politicians out there who are genuinely interested and concerned with public service. to say they are all the same belittles them... and does nothing for your own character or person apart from illustrating a misconception and willingness to broadly generalize and marginalize people based on your own, or others, preconceptions.

basically, it's silly. and if every citizen that was party to a fair democratic society rejected this notion, perhaps we wouldn't end up with leaders we don't trust. saying 'all X are the same' does nothing, in short. if you truly care - be active, participate, know who is actually out there for you - fighting for the public, to represent them. refuse? blame nobody but yourself for the current political situation.

lol I agree. I actually made a typo...I meant "people need to stop thinking its a wasted vote" instead of "people need to start thinking its a wasted vote".

Imo too many people feel pressured into voting, dont know who to vote for, and they ask their parents or submit to peer pressure because theyre too lazy or busy to find out for themselves. This is also why I personally feel not voting is a viable alternative...better to make no choice than a "wrong" choice.

Anyway, people should vote but only if they research, and people should vote for who they believe in. So many people are like "Oh dont vote for Nader; the least you can do is vote for one of the two guys that could actually win". Well, Nader can win, people just gotta quit listening to crap like "He cant win" and freaking vote!

To end this on a cynical note, for quite a few years its been about choosing a lesser evil lol.

I finally know what Obama meant about change and it sucks.

Well this is quite funny. Do people still believe that the president makes any decisions at all? The President is nothing more than a figurehead, a pawn in a stupid game called politics. Of course they're spending money on Afganistan, because most of America believes in that war, unlike Iraq.

Second point I'm going to make, give Obama 4 or 8 years and then compare him to Bush. Remember Obama is still very new to this posistion, not like it matters anyway, Obama is not the decision maker, just the figurehead.

Well this is quite funny. Do people still believe that the president makes any decisions at all? The President is nothing more than a figurehead, a pawn in a stupid game called politics. Of course they're spending money on Afganistan, because most of America believes in that war, unlike Iraq.

Second point I'm going to make, give Obama 4 or 8 years and then compare him to Bush. Remember Obama is still very new to this posistion, not like it matters anyway, Obama is not the decision maker, just the figurehead.

MasterKingMP

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="MasterKingMP"]

Well this is quite funny. Do people still believe that the president makes any decisions at all? The President is nothing more than a figurehead, a pawn in a stupid game called politics. Of course they're spending money on Afganistan, because most of America believes in that war, unlike Iraq.

Second point I'm going to make, give Obama 4 or 8 years and then compare him to Bush. Remember Obama is still very new to this posistion, not like it matters anyway, Obama is not the decision maker, just the figurehead.

MasterKingMP

Yep. To the aliens, and You're not intelligent enough to speak to me so I'm ending this and doing something more important.

[QUOTE="MasterKingMP"]

[QUOTE="3picuri3"] you really owe it to yourself to learn more about the democratic process and the history of your country, and politics in general. there is corruption, of course, but to say the president makes no decisions is just plain ignorant. to say he is a figurehead is also ignorant. what do you propose as an alternate? do you believe in the illuminati? some secret world government? aliens? or just the normal 'special interest' pressures - which i agree exists, but is not some sort of supreme decision making group that is above the presidents will. 3picuri3

Yep. To the aliens, and You're not intelligent enough to speak to me so I'm ending this and doing something more important.

well, its true...to an extent I might add (pertaining to the original post).

The president is indeed a figurehead. Yes, he has a great deal of power in certain aspects. He has the right to veto whatever he wishes, thus forcing congress (iirc) to pass the current legislation by an even greater majority. He also has the war powers act in his favor.

But the simple fact is that the president is still a figurehead. Did he win because he has the best concepts for policy? Did he win because he was the most intelligent? Yes, those contributed, but the simple fact is he won because he was the most popular, hence the figurehead status.

Despite the liberties given to a person of their position, the president of the United States is still just a figurehead. Beyond that capability, manipulation and a favorable congress (i.e. the Bush administration, not Bush himself) come into play and we all know what that can lead to.

My argument, while obviously biased towards the Bush administration, applies to all presidencies. I consider myself a "radical" moderate (I like some of the extremes of both the conservative and liberal polices, but generally favor reasonable stuff) so take it with a grain of salt.

In short, the president him or herself is a figurehead to the utmost.

:roll: At the topic title. Then :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: After reading the actual post.

Neither of them are my concern.

As a politician, Obama is certainly one of the best in history. President? Time will tell.mfacek

So it's too early to critisize him, but it's not too early to say he's one of the best politicians in history?

Whatever helps you sleep..

Obama campaigned on a platform of phased pullout from Iraq over 16 months. The last money that Bush requested for combat operations ran out. Why is it a surprise that he is asking for more money for these wars to support the troops during the time between point A (today) and point B (his proposed date of full withdrawl)?nocoolnamejim

Actually, he didn't campaign with the promise of 16 months, that's something that got changed along the line. He said immediately during his campaign, then 6 months, then 16 months.

I wish a country existed on a tiny little islands, and no one except computer geeks and game nerds would be allowed... no politics, no war... it would be paradise.

:roll: At the topic title. Then :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: After reading the actual post.

Red-Ravens

And the best counter argument goes to Red-Ravens! You evenmanaged to avoid the deadly trap of ad hominem, I salute you!

Conservative, Liberal, Democrat, Republican...in the end, theyre all politicians, and theyre all no better than eachother.

This is why people need to start thinking its a wasted vote and go out for a third party. We have been perpetuating this two-party system for far too long.

mrbojangles25

This