Obama? Really?

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="_Marisa_"]I'm voting for Obama if he wins against Hillary.LostProphetFLCL

ok I need someone to explain this to me.

Why are you voting for Mccain? What in God's name do you see in him when he wants to stay in Iraq WHILST starting a war with Iran?

lol oh God, not the bitter thing again...

I still do not see what is wrong with that quote in all honesty. It is simply denial to say that people don't cling to things of that nature when in a bad spot. Albeit he could have used better examples but come on people.....

Sadly I think Trashface is representative of the average American....

Rather than actually look up the voting records and the politicians stances, they will eat up all the BS the media throws out and let strawman tactics sway their voting...

If Obama doesn't win this election, I will officially hate the majority of my fellow Americans and I will look to get out of the country so I can be surrounded by a more intelligent populace....

LostProphetFLCL

I've researched the candidates and found Obama lacking...

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="_Marisa_"]I'm voting for Obama if he wins against Hillary.blackngold29

ok I need someone to explain this to me.

Why are you voting for Mccain? What in God's name do you see in him when he wants to stay in Iraq WHILST starting a war with Iran?

lol oh God, not the bitter thing again...

I still do not see what is wrong with that quote in all honesty. It is simply denial to say that people don't cling to things of that nature when in a bad spot. Albeit he could have used better examples but come on people.....

He had a good idea there but if that is exactly the way he put it then he put it the wrong way....

Remember, after 9-11 churches had all-time highs in terms of number of people at services. Ever heard the term "there is no such thing as an athiest in a foxhole?"? Obviously there are plenty of people who regularly follow their religions, but there are also many fickle people who only turn to religion when they need help....

He had a good idea there but if that is exactly the way he put it then he put it the wrong way....

Remember, after 9-11 churches had all-time highs in terms of number of people at services. Ever heard the term "there is no such thing as an athiest in a foxhole?"? Obviously there are plenty of people who regularly follow their religions, but there are also many fickle people who only turn to religion when they need help....

LostProphetFLCL

There was nothing good about his quote. He generalized, stereotyped, offended, and put his foot in his mouth.. He's like GWB....fine with a speech writer but absolutely foolish without one.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

Sadly I think Trashface is representative of the average American....

Rather than actually look up the voting records and the politicians stances, they will eat up all the BS the media throws out and let strawman tactics sway their voting...

If Obama doesn't win this election, I will officially hate the majority of my fellow Americans and I will look to get out of the country so I can be surrounded by a more intelligent populace....

LJS9502_basic

I've researched the candidates and found Obama lacking...

Please go on.

Perhaps if he had better opponents I might feel the same as you, but at this point he mine as well run un-apposed in my mind.

Mccains stance on war and lack of economic knowlege make him unvotable for me. Sad seeing as from what I have gathered from talking about the guy he, unlike other Repubs, is more lberal with stances on things like gay marriage which is where I think we as a population need more open minds.

As for Hillary, she has been caught lying up and down and has flipped flop on issues so much I can't trust her on any stance she might say she has. Not to mention it is interesting how she stopped her crusade for nationalized healthcare back in the 90's after supposedly getting money from insurance company lobbyists....

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

He had a good idea there but if that is exactly the way he put it then he put it the wrong way....

Remember, after 9-11 churches had all-time highs in terms of number of people at services. Ever heard the term "there is no such thing as an athiest in a foxhole?"? Obviously there are plenty of people who regularly follow their religions, but there are also many fickle people who only turn to religion when they need help....

LJS9502_basic

There was nothing good about his quote. He generalized, stereotyped, offended, and put his foot in his mouth.. He's like GWB....fine with a speech writer but absolutely foolish without one.

I stand by the ideas behind the quotes and I think it is just a case of him not being able to get those ideas out in the right way all the time. If you ask me that is a very minor flaw when he has such good stances on issues.

Please go on.

Perhaps if he had better opponents I might feel the same as you, but at this point he mine as well run un-apposed in my mind.

Mccains stance on war and lack of economic knowlege make him unvotable for me. Sad seeing as from what I have gathered from talking about the guy he, unlike other Repubs, is more lberal with stances on things like gay marriage which is where I think we as a population need more open minds.

As for Hillary, she has been caught lying up and down and has flipped flop on issues so much I can't trust her on any stance she might say she has. Not to mention it is interesting how she stopped her crusade for nationalized healthcare back in the 90's after supposedly getting money from insurance company lobbyists....

LostProphetFLCL

Well now the polictical ads in PA by the candidates was the opposite of your view. Obama's were all lies. Not one truth in the ads. Clinton didn't lie in hers.

If healthcare is important to you then you should know that the plan Obama has leaves much more uncovered individuals than Clinton's does. The Iraq War...the both said about the same really. I'm not crazy about Obama's ideas in regard to the military at all.

[QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Trashface"]

There has been recent news, so I'm bringing this thread back. Obama's numbers have been slipping since the public was made aware of the hate speech that his former Pastor, Jeremiah Wright, spewed from the pulpit. Obama attended that church for 20 years as Jeremiah Wright accused the government of infecting the black race with AIDs, helping to imprison Mandella, and told other hateful lies against our country. Wright has recently been making media appearances and even said that Obama has agreed with his sermons, but has to deny it now since he is running for office. After defending his former Pastor, now that the story is hurting Obama's polling numbers, Obama is now saying he is outraged by the comments. I don't understand how anyone can trust this person. How can his supporters ignore this? Might want to read this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_el_pr/obama_pastor

LostProphetFLCL

Wow, this is kind of a unique situation. Nobody can come up with valid criticism about Obama himself, so they have to attack other people around him.

Don't you understand that him agreeing with such hateful speech could indicate that he has underlayingplans and motives? This is valid critism. Obama has agreed with his hate speech and listened to his sermons for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters. The Pastor is on one of his commitees. This is very much a valid issue. If Obama agrees with the hateful and biggoted views of Wright, any person with common sense can see how this could influence his political stances and actions as President.

Your argument still fails after all this time. Projecting the opinions of one person onto another simply through association is a big mistake. One that people with "common sense" do not tend to make. Secondly, I pass ZERO judgement on Obama's pastor since his speach was taken out of context and I do not know him personally. So, to create a judgement about a person from a soundbyte is very shortsighted.

It was NOT taken out of context. I suggest you find the full sermon. Seriously, I really do pity you. It seems no matter what evidence could be presented, you would not change your mind. Once more, it is more than an association. The Pastor has now said that Obama agreed with his ideas behind closed doors. This is far beyond just association. I seriously have to question your intellect at this point. How can you not see that if he holds these hateful ideas, it could effect his Presidential policies? I'm using logic and you're getting offended simply because you're a fanboy.

Point 1) I wasn't offended by your post

Point 2) I am not a fanboy, as I have stated on numerous occasions here I have researched each candidates POSITIONS and VOTING RECORDS and came to a decision based on those factors, rather than FALSE INFERENCES and HERESAY. I hope you can see the difference.

Point 3) It is obvious that when someone disagrees with you, you become angry and try to insult them rather than bring about thoughtful arguments for your position. Please try and refrain from personal insults as we're talking about the presidential candidates, not each other.

Point 4) Rather than "pity me" I suggest you try and form your opinions based on more in-depth research rather than based on what other people say about the candidates, or what they said "behind closed doors".

Rather than actually look up the voting records and the politicians stances, they will eat up all the BS the media throws out and let strawman tactics sway their voting...

If Obama doesn't win this election, I will officially hate the majority of my fellow Americans and I will look to get out of the country so I can be surrounded by a more intelligent populace....

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Trashface"]

There has been recent news, so I'm bringing this thread back. Obama's numbers have been slipping since the public was made aware of the hate speech that his former Pastor, Jeremiah Wright, spewed from the pulpit. Obama attended that church for 20 years as Jeremiah Wright accused the government of infecting the black race with AIDs, helping to imprison Mandella, and told other hateful lies against our country. Wright has recently been making media appearances and even said that Obama has agreed with his sermons, but has to deny it now since he is running for office. After defending his former Pastor, now that the story is hurting Obama's polling numbers, Obama is now saying he is outraged by the comments. I don't understand how anyone can trust this person. How can his supporters ignore this? Might want to read this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_el_pr/obama_pastor

Atheos-Arkhaios

Wow, this is kind of a unique situation. Nobody can come up with valid criticism about Obama himself, so they have to attack other people around him.

Don't you understand that him agreeing with such hateful speech could indicate that he has underlayingplans and motives? This is valid critism. Obama has agreed with his hate speech and listened to his sermons for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters. The Pastor is on one of his commitees. This is very much a valid issue. If Obama agrees with the hateful and biggoted views of Wright, any person with common sense can see how this could influence his political stances and actions as President.

Your argument still fails after all this time. Projecting the opinions of one person onto another simply through association is a big mistake. One that people with "common sense" do not tend to make. Secondly, I pass ZERO judgement on Obama's pastor since his speach was taken out of context and I do not know him personally. So, to create a judgement about a person from a soundbyte is very shortsighted.

It was NOT taken out of context. I suggest you find the full sermon. Seriously, I really do pity you. It seems no matter what evidence could be presented, you would not change your mind. Once more, it is more than an association. The Pastor has now said that Obama agreed with his ideas behind closed doors. This is far beyond just association. I seriously have to question your intellect at this point. How can you not see that if he holds these hateful ideas, it could effect his Presidential policies? I'm using logic and you're getting offended simply because you're a fanboy.

Point 1) I wasn't offended by your post

Point 2) I am not a fanboy, as I have stated on numerous occasions here I have researched each candidates POSITIONS and VOTING RECORDS and came to a decision based on those factors, rather than FALSE INFERENCES and HERESAY. I hope you can see the difference.

Point 3) It is obvious that when someone disagrees with you, you become angry and try to insult them rather than bring about thoughtful arguments for your position. Please try and refrain from personal insults as we're talking about the presidential candidates, not each other.

Point 4) Rather than "pity me" I suggest you try and form your opinions based on more in-depth research rather than based on what other people say about the candidates, or what they said "behind closed doors".

How could you call it bull? To me, this makes you look oblivious. This Pastor who has made outlandish claims such as the government infecting minorities with AIDs has now said that Obama shared his beliefs behind closed doors. Obama has called Wright his spiritual mentor. That statement in itself says that they have the same core. Obama's book "The Audactiy Of Hope" was named after one of the sermons. I'm in disbelief that you have absolutely no suspicion of Obama's hidden social views. It's a good thing others do have some common sense, because Obama's popularity is falling, and with good reason.

Let's look at the bitter comment, through a Barrack Obama policy view. Guns: He wants to ban concealed handguns and more gun restrictions. Religion: He wants to lend crediblilty to his racist church, by painting white churches as the looney racist ones. Antipathy: He wants to legalize all illegal immigrants, ignoring what the people want.

I stand by the ideas behind the quotes and I think it is just a case of him not being able to get those ideas out in the right way all the time. If you ask me that is a very minor flaw when he has such good stances on issues.

LostProphetFLCL

You have yet to mention any good stance of his. You just say he has them.:|

[QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Trashface"]

There has been recent news, so I'm bringing this thread back. Obama's numbers have been slipping since the public was made aware of the hate speech that his former Pastor, Jeremiah Wright, spewed from the pulpit. Obama attended that church for 20 years as Jeremiah Wright accused the government of infecting the black race with AIDs, helping to imprison Mandella, and told other hateful lies against our country. Wright has recently been making media appearances and even said that Obama has agreed with his sermons, but has to deny it now since he is running for office. After defending his former Pastor, now that the story is hurting Obama's polling numbers, Obama is now saying he is outraged by the comments. I don't understand how anyone can trust this person. How can his supporters ignore this? Might want to read this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_el_pr/obama_pastor

LostProphetFLCL

Wow, this is kind of a unique situation. Nobody can come up with valid criticism about Obama himself, so they have to attack other people around him.

Don't you understand that him agreeing with such hateful speech could indicate that he has underlayingplans and motives? This is valid critism. Obama has agreed with his hate speech and listened to his sermons for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters. The Pastor is on one of his commitees. This is very much a valid issue. If Obama agrees with the hateful and biggoted views of Wright, any person with common sense can see how this could influence his political stances and actions as President.

Your argument still fails after all this time. Projecting the opinions of one person onto another simply through association is a big mistake. One that people with "common sense" do not tend to make. Secondly, I pass ZERO judgement on Obama's pastor since his speach was taken out of context and I do not know him personally. So, to create a judgement about a person from a soundbyte is very shortsighted.

It was NOT taken out of context. I suggest you find the full sermon. Seriously, I really do pity you. It seems no matter what evidence could be presented, you would not change your mind. Once more, it is more than an association. The Pastor has now said that Obama agreed with his ideas behind closed doors. This is far beyond just association. I seriously have to question your intellect at this point. How can you not see that if he holds these hateful ideas, it could effect his Presidential policies? I'm using logic and you're getting offended simply because you're a fanboy.

Point 1) I wasn't offended by your post

Point 2) I am not a fanboy, as I have stated on numerous occasions here I have researched each candidates POSITIONS and VOTING RECORDS and came to a decision based on those factors, rather than FALSE INFERENCES and HERESAY. I hope you can see the difference.

Point 3) It is obvious that when someone disagrees with you, you become angry and try to insult them rather than bring about thoughtful arguments for your position. Please try and refrain from personal insults as we're talking about the presidential candidates, not each other.

Point 4) Rather than "pity me" I suggest you try and form your opinions based on more in-depth research rather than based on what other people say about the candidates, or what they said "behind closed doors".

Rather than actually look up the voting records and the politicians stances, they will eat up all the BS the media throws out and let strawman tactics sway their voting...

If Obama doesn't win this election, I will officially hate the majority of my fellow Americans and I will look to get out of the country so I can be surrounded by a more intelligent populace....

Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

Please go on.

Perhaps if he had better opponents I might feel the same as you, but at this point he mine as well run un-apposed in my mind.

Mccains stance on war and lack of economic knowlege make him unvotable for me. Sad seeing as from what I have gathered from talking about the guy he, unlike other Repubs, is more lberal with stances on things like gay marriage which is where I think we as a population need more open minds.

As for Hillary, she has been caught lying up and down and has flipped flop on issues so much I can't trust her on any stance she might say she has. Not to mention it is interesting how she stopped her crusade for nationalized healthcare back in the 90's after supposedly getting money from insurance company lobbyists....

LJS9502_basic

Well now the polictical ads in PA by the candidates was the opposite of your view. Obama's were all lies. Not one truth in the ads. Clinton didn't lie in hers.

If healthcare is important to you then you should know that the plan Obama has leaves much more uncovered individuals than Clinton's does. The Iraq War...the both said about the same really. I'm not crazy about Obama's ideas in regard to the military at all.

Obama only a year or 2 ago said pulling the troops out would be a disaster. More recently, that stance has become less popular among democrats, so of course he changed his stance to be more electable and now says we must pull them out.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]
Sadly I think Trashface is representative of the average American....

Rather than actually look up the voting records and the politicians stances, they will eat up all the BS the media throws out and let strawman tactics sway their voting...

If Obama doesn't win this election, I will officially hate the majority of my fellow Americans and I will look to get out of the country so I can be surrounded by a more intelligent populace....

Trashface

Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.

Hillary sucks and McCain is old. We should all write-in Companion Cube.Jandurin

God, YES!

Hillary sucks and McCain is old. We should all write-in Companion Cube.Jandurin

Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.Trashface

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

I stand by the ideas behind the quotes and I think it is just a case of him not being able to get those ideas out in the right way all the time. If you ask me that is a very minor flaw when he has such good stances on issues.

LJS9502_basic

You have yet to mention any good stance of his. You just say he has them.:|

Nationalized healthcare and pulling out of Iraq are the big two for me.

I am not crazy about getting more gun control, but it is a small thing compared to the other candidates major flaws.

As for Hillary, as I mentioned she has contradicted herself too much in debates for me to feel confident in voting her in. Still, if she does get the dem nom which is incredibly unlikely, I will vote for her if only to keep Mccain out of office.

Really, I would say I am more deadset on keeping Mccain out of office than anything else. He will freaking ruin this country if put in office with his quite frankly DUMB foreign policy views and his complete lack of economic knowlege.....

Edit: I forgot to ask, what about Obama and military don't you like exactly?

Fact: One of the best presidents in US history, Woodrow Wilson...

AmyMizuno

That is not a fact. Don't integrate opinion and call it fact.

I personally think he was one of the worst presidents. He introduced the Federal Reserve Act, which has put our country in further debt ever since it was enacted. He then started the IRS to compensate for his overspending. Don't forget the league of nations. It almost seems as if Wilson intentionally wanted to get involved in future affairs; completly disregarding our isolationist policy. You like big government, internationalism, taxes, and national debt? Then I guess Wilson was good in your opinion. But you're not really pursuading me to vote for Obama by comparing him to Wilson.

It's my opinion that Obama is racist. I'm not voting for him.LJS9502_basic

Agreed. I also think a white man with his resume would be laughed off stage.

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.LostProphetFLCL

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

1. The one claiming behind closed doors is the actual Pastor.

2. Obama was a member of the church for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters and was named Obama's spiritual mentor by Obama himself. The Pastor is one an Obama comittee. The title of one of Obama's books is named after one of Wright's sermons.

3. McCain has had NO connections like that with Hagee. No connections nearly that tight and suspicious. It's very different.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Trashface"]

There has been recent news, so I'm bringing this thread back. Obama's numbers have been slipping since the public was made aware of the hate speech that his former Pastor, Jeremiah Wright, spewed from the pulpit. Obama attended that church for 20 years as Jeremiah Wright accused the government of infecting the black race with AIDs, helping to imprison Mandella, and told other hateful lies against our country. Wright has recently been making media appearances and even said that Obama has agreed with his sermons, but has to deny it now since he is running for office. After defending his former Pastor, now that the story is hurting Obama's polling numbers, Obama is now saying he is outraged by the comments. I don't understand how anyone can trust this person. How can his supporters ignore this? Might want to read this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_el_pr/obama_pastor

Trashface

Wow, this is kind of a unique situation. Nobody can come up with valid criticism about Obama himself, so they have to attack other people around him.

Don't you understand that him agreeing with such hateful speech could indicate that he has underlayingplans and motives? This is valid critism. Obama has agreed with his hate speech and listened to his sermons for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters. The Pastor is on one of his commitees. This is very much a valid issue. If Obama agrees with the hateful and biggoted views of Wright, any person with common sense can see how this could influence his political stances and actions as President.

Your argument still fails after all this time. Projecting the opinions of one person onto another simply through association is a big mistake. One that people with "common sense" do not tend to make. Secondly, I pass ZERO judgement on Obama's pastor since his speach was taken out of context and I do not know him personally. So, to create a judgement about a person from a soundbyte is very shortsighted.

It was NOT taken out of context. I suggest you find the full sermon. Seriously, I really do pity you. It seems no matter what evidence could be presented, you would not change your mind. Once more, it is more than an association. The Pastor has now said that Obama agreed with his ideas behind closed doors. This is far beyond just association. I seriously have to question your intellect at this point. How can you not see that if he holds these hateful ideas, it could effect his Presidential policies? I'm using logic and you're getting offended simply because you're a fanboy.

Point 1) I wasn't offended by your post

Point 2) I am not a fanboy, as I have stated on numerous occasions here I have researched each candidates POSITIONS and VOTING RECORDS and came to a decision based on those factors, rather than FALSE INFERENCES and HERESAY. I hope you can see the difference.

Point 3) It is obvious that when someone disagrees with you, you become angry and try to insult them rather than bring about thoughtful arguments for your position. Please try and refrain from personal insults as we're talking about the presidential candidates, not each other.

Point 4) Rather than "pity me" I suggest you try and form your opinions based on more in-depth research rather than based on what other people say about the candidates, or what they said "behind closed doors".

Rather than actually look up the voting records and the politicians stances, they will eat up all the BS the media throws out and let strawman tactics sway their voting...

If Obama doesn't win this election, I will officially hate the majority of my fellow Americans and I will look to get out of the country so I can be surrounded by a more intelligent populace....

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Trashface"]

There has been recent news, so I'm bringing this thread back. Obama's numbers have been slipping since the public was made aware of the hate speech that his former Pastor, Jeremiah Wright, spewed from the pulpit. Obama attended that church for 20 years as Jeremiah Wright accused the government of infecting the black race with AIDs, helping to imprison Mandella, and told other hateful lies against our country. Wright has recently been making media appearances and even said that Obama has agreed with his sermons, but has to deny it now since he is running for office. After defending his former Pastor, now that the story is hurting Obama's polling numbers, Obama is now saying he is outraged by the comments. I don't understand how anyone can trust this person. How can his supporters ignore this? Might want to read this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_el_pr/obama_pastor

Atheos-Arkhaios

Wow, this is kind of a unique situation. Nobody can come up with valid criticism about Obama himself, so they have to attack other people around him.

Don't you understand that him agreeing with such hateful speech could indicate that he has underlayingplans and motives? This is valid critism. Obama has agreed with his hate speech and listened to his sermons for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters. The Pastor is on one of his commitees. This is very much a valid issue. If Obama agrees with the hateful and biggoted views of Wright, any person with common sense can see how this could influence his political stances and actions as President.

Your argument still fails after all this time. Projecting the opinions of one person onto another simply through association is a big mistake. One that people with "common sense" do not tend to make. Secondly, I pass ZERO judgement on Obama's pastor since his speach was taken out of context and I do not know him personally. So, to create a judgement about a person from a soundbyte is very shortsighted.

It was NOT taken out of context. I suggest you find the full sermon. Seriously, I really do pity you. It seems no matter what evidence could be presented, you would not change your mind. Once more, it is more than an association. The Pastor has now said that Obama agreed with his ideas behind closed doors. This is far beyond just association. I seriously have to question your intellect at this point. How can you not see that if he holds these hateful ideas, it could effect his Presidential policies? I'm using logic and you're getting offended simply because you're a fanboy.

Point 1) I wasn't offended by your post

Point 2) I am not a fanboy, as I have stated on numerous occasions here I have researched each candidates POSITIONS and VOTING RECORDS and came to a decision based on those factors, rather than FALSE INFERENCES and HERESAY. I hope you can see the difference.

Point 3) It is obvious that when someone disagrees with you, you become angry and try to insult them rather than bring about thoughtful arguments for your position. Please try and refrain from personal insults as we're talking about the presidential candidates, not each other.

Point 4) Rather than "pity me" I suggest you try and form your opinions based on more in-depth research rather than based on what other people say about the candidates, or what they said "behind closed doors".

How could you call it bull? To me, this makes you look oblivious. This Pastor who has made outlandish claims such as the government infecting minorities with AIDs has now said that Obama shared his beliefs behind closed doors. Obama has called Wright his spiritual mentor. That statement in itself says that they have the same core. Obama's book "The Audactiy Of Hope" was named after one of the sermons. I'm in disbelief that you have absolutely no suspicion of Obama's hidden social views. It's a good thing others do have some common sense, because Obama's popularity is falling, and with good reason.

You're still making the same mistake that I pointed out before, so I can't really refute anything new...

Have you read The Audacity of Hope by the way? It's a great book. I must have missed all of the "hidden social views" contained within its pages, dripping with Anti-Americanism since he used a quote from his pastor who obviously hates this country...right?

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Trashface"]

There has been recent news, so I'm bringing this thread back. Obama's numbers have been slipping since the public was made aware of the hate speech that his former Pastor, Jeremiah Wright, spewed from the pulpit. Obama attended that church for 20 years as Jeremiah Wright accused the government of infecting the black race with AIDs, helping to imprison Mandella, and told other hateful lies against our country. Wright has recently been making media appearances and even said that Obama has agreed with his sermons, but has to deny it now since he is running for office. After defending his former Pastor, now that the story is hurting Obama's polling numbers, Obama is now saying he is outraged by the comments. I don't understand how anyone can trust this person. How can his supporters ignore this? Might want to read this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_el_pr/obama_pastor

Trashface

Wow, this is kind of a unique situation. Nobody can come up with valid criticism about Obama himself, so they have to attack other people around him.

Don't you understand that him agreeing with such hateful speech could indicate that he has underlayingplans and motives? This is valid critism. Obama has agreed with his hate speech and listened to his sermons for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters. The Pastor is on one of his commitees. This is very much a valid issue. If Obama agrees with the hateful and biggoted views of Wright, any person with common sense can see how this could influence his political stances and actions as President.

Your argument still fails after all this time. Projecting the opinions of one person onto another simply through association is a big mistake. One that people with "common sense" do not tend to make. Secondly, I pass ZERO judgement on Obama's pastor since his speach was taken out of context and I do not know him personally. So, to create a judgement about a person from a soundbyte is very shortsighted.

It was NOT taken out of context. I suggest you find the full sermon. Seriously, I really do pity you. It seems no matter what evidence could be presented, you would not change your mind. Once more, it is more than an association. The Pastor has now said that Obama agreed with his ideas behind closed doors. This is far beyond just association. I seriously have to question your intellect at this point. How can you not see that if he holds these hateful ideas, it could effect his Presidential policies? I'm using logic and you're getting offended simply because you're a fanboy.

Point 1) I wasn't offended by your post

Point 2) I am not a fanboy, as I have stated on numerous occasions here I have researched each candidates POSITIONS and VOTING RECORDS and came to a decision based on those factors, rather than FALSE INFERENCES and HERESAY. I hope you can see the difference.

Point 3) It is obvious that when someone disagrees with you, you become angry and try to insult them rather than bring about thoughtful arguments for your position. Please try and refrain from personal insults as we're talking about the presidential candidates, not each other.

Point 4) Rather than "pity me" I suggest you try and form your opinions based on more in-depth research rather than based on what other people say about the candidates, or what they said "behind closed doors".

Rather than actually look up the voting records and the politicians stances, they will eat up all the BS the media throws out and let strawman tactics sway their voting...

If Obama doesn't win this election, I will officially hate the majority of my fellow Americans and I will look to get out of the country so I can be surrounded by a more intelligent populace....

Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.

I understand that the anonymity of the internet allows you to feel less confrontational upon making such remarks, but I don't see why it is necessary to bring in personal insults. You can make no intelligent claims about the kind of person I am, so if you wish to keep digging yourself into this pre-programmed hole you've begun, reiterating all of the "distractions" that the media wants you to think about (rather than thinking about the actual issues), by all means go ahead, but please don't attack me personally.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.Trashface

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

1. The one claiming behind closed doors is the actual Pastor.

2. Obama was a member of the church for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters and was named Obama's spiritual mentor by Obama himself. The Pastor is one an Obama comittee. The title of one of Obama's books is named after one of Wright's sermons.

3. McCain has had NO connections like that with Hagee. No connections nearly that tight and suspicious. It's very different.

1) Point?

2) Yes I know, and do you actually think all of Wrights sermons are like the ones shown in the media?

3) Sure he hasn't.....

Oh wait, I forgot it doesn't matter because THE PASTORS AREN'T THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES!

However right or wrong this is, I can't for the life of me believe that Obama had no clue, for the last 20 years he willingly sat in this church, the kind of rhetoric that Wright spits out.

I mean that's like me saying I went to KKK rallies for 20 years and never once heard the "N" word.peaceful_anger

Exactly what I think.

As a friend of mine told me whilst she was beligerent last weekend...

Obama would be great, if everyone was a nice and perfect person, then his crap would work

R-Dot-Yung

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Trashface"]

There has been recent news, so I'm bringing this thread back. Obama's numbers have been slipping since the public was made aware of the hate speech that his former Pastor, Jeremiah Wright, spewed from the pulpit. Obama attended that church for 20 years as Jeremiah Wright accused the government of infecting the black race with AIDs, helping to imprison Mandella, and told other hateful lies against our country. Wright has recently been making media appearances and even said that Obama has agreed with his sermons, but has to deny it now since he is running for office. After defending his former Pastor, now that the story is hurting Obama's polling numbers, Obama is now saying he is outraged by the comments. I don't understand how anyone can trust this person. How can his supporters ignore this? Might want to read this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_el_pr/obama_pastor

Atheos-Arkhaios

Wow, this is kind of a unique situation. Nobody can come up with valid criticism about Obama himself, so they have to attack other people around him.

Don't you understand that him agreeing with such hateful speech could indicate that he has underlayingplans and motives? This is valid critism. Obama has agreed with his hate speech and listened to his sermons for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters. The Pastor is on one of his commitees. This is very much a valid issue. If Obama agrees with the hateful and biggoted views of Wright, any person with common sense can see how this could influence his political stances and actions as President.

Your argument still fails after all this time. Projecting the opinions of one person onto another simply through association is a big mistake. One that people with "common sense" do not tend to make. Secondly, I pass ZERO judgement on Obama's pastor since his speach was taken out of context and I do not know him personally. So, to create a judgement about a person from a soundbyte is very shortsighted.

It was NOT taken out of context. I suggest you find the full sermon. Seriously, I really do pity you. It seems no matter what evidence could be presented, you would not change your mind. Once more, it is more than an association. The Pastor has now said that Obama agreed with his ideas behind closed doors. This is far beyond just association. I seriously have to question your intellect at this point. How can you not see that if he holds these hateful ideas, it could effect his Presidential policies? I'm using logic and you're getting offended simply because you're a fanboy.

Point 1) I wasn't offended by your post

Point 2) I am not a fanboy, as I have stated on numerous occasions here I have researched each candidates POSITIONS and VOTING RECORDS and came to a decision based on those factors, rather than FALSE INFERENCES and HERESAY. I hope you can see the difference.

Point 3) It is obvious that when someone disagrees with you, you become angry and try to insult them rather than bring about thoughtful arguments for your position. Please try and refrain from personal insults as we're talking about the presidential candidates, not each other.

Point 4) Rather than "pity me" I suggest you try and form your opinions based on more in-depth research rather than based on what other people say about the candidates, or what they said "behind closed doors".

Rather than actually look up the voting records and the politicians stances, they will eat up all the BS the media throws out and let strawman tactics sway their voting...

If Obama doesn't win this election, I will officially hate the majority of my fellow Americans and I will look to get out of the country so I can be surrounded by a more intelligent populace....

Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.

I understand that the anonymity of the internet allows you to feel less confrontational upon making such remarks, but I don't see why it is necessary to bring in personal insults. You can make no intelligent claims about the kind of person I am, so if you wish to keep digging yourself into this pre-programmed hole you've begun, reiterating all of the "distractions" that the media wants you to think about (rather than thinking about the actual issues), by all means go ahead, but please don't attack me personally.

If you would have read more carefully, you would have known that was a response to LostProphets statement that if Obama loses, he will leave the country because of Americ's lack of intelligence. I'm glad I could clear up your confusion.Talk about putting yourself into a hole..

Once more, Wright has spouted hateful, false anti American non sense from his pulpit. Obama sat taking it in for 20 tears. This shows acceptance. He has called Wright his spiritual mentor. This shows embrace of Wrights mind and views. Wright himself said that Obama secretly agreed to his views. You dismiss these as non issues. You've abandonned reason.

Also, about the anonymity, I would gladly hold these same stances face to face.

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.LostProphetFLCL

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

1. The one claiming behind closed doors is the actual Pastor.

2. Obama was a member of the church for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters and was named Obama's spiritual mentor by Obama himself. The Pastor is one an Obama comittee. The title of one of Obama's books is named after one of Wright's sermons.

3. McCain has had NO connections like that with Hagee. No connections nearly that tight and suspicious. It's very different.

1) Point?

2) Yes I know, and do you actually think all of Wrights sermons are like the ones shown in the media?

3) Sure he hasn't.....

Oh wait, I forgot it doesn't matter because THE PASTORS AREN'T THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES!

1. The Pastor has no reason to lie. He is basically saying Obama thinks the government infected minorities with AIDs in an act of genocide. In agreeing with Wright's views, Obama would be filled with the same hatred for the country and it's white majority.

2. Look for other speeches of his at NAACP meetings. Also, find the entire sermon. Even if there weren't more examples, Wright still showed his true colors. Those are statements that are independant of context.

3. McCain has not attended Hagee's church for 20 years. He has not named Hagee his spiritual mentor. He has not put Hagee on any of his commitees. He was not so influenced by Hagee that he named a book after his sermon.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.Trashface

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

1. The one claiming behind closed doors is the actual Pastor.

2. Obama was a member of the church for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters and was named Obama's spiritual mentor by Obama himself. The Pastor is one an Obama comittee. The title of one of Obama's books is named after one of Wright's sermons.

3. McCain has had NO connections like that with Hagee. No connections nearly that tight and suspicious. It's very different.

1) Point?

2) Yes I know, and do you actually think all of Wrights sermons are like the ones shown in the media?

3) Sure he hasn't.....

Oh wait, I forgot it doesn't matter because THE PASTORS AREN'T THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES!

1. The Pastor has no reason to lie. He is basically saying Obama thinks the government infected minorities with AIDs in an act of genocide. In agreeing with Wright's views, Obama would be filled with the same hatred for the country and it's white majority.

2. Look for other speeches of his at NAACP meetings. Also, find the entire sermon. Even if there weren't more examples, Wright still showed his true colors. Those are statements that are independant of context.

3. McCain has not attended Hagee's church for 20 years. He has not named Hagee his spiritual mentor. He has not put Hagee on any of his commitees. He was not so influenced by Hagee that he named a book after his sermon.

1) The pastor is proving himself to be a media whore and his going against what Obama says keeps attention on him.

2) So you would argue that just 2 two examples would be enough to say that they are his true colors? Wow talk about shortsighted.

3) Mccain has made friends with Hagee and others like him. It isn't a case of him making friends with just one failure of a human being but multiple people.

4) In case you didn't hear, Obama has come out and mentioned that after Wrights going out and speaking for him Obama is now cutting ties with the man. He once again re-iterated that he does NOT share Wrights views as well. But hey, I am guessing that doesn't mean **** to you because logic and the word of those who are in discussion mean nothing to you.

[QUOTE="Trashface"]

The reasons people have to vote for this man seem to be that he speaks of hope and change, he's young, and he's a good speaker. To me, these are not good enough reasons to elect someone President. He's accomplished nothing in the Senate, he has no leadership experience, and he hasn't gone into detail about how he would bring this change that he keeps speaking of.

Aside from these things, there are other things that make me very uneasy about him being elected. I have no problem with a black President, although he has made his race an issue.

Here are some quotes from one of his books:

From 'Dreams of My Father',
"I CEASED TO ADVERTISE MY MOTHER'S RACE AT THE AGE OF12 OR 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites"

From Dreams of My Father, " I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE AND ANIMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER'S RACE".

From 'Dreams of my Father', "The emotion between the races could never be pure..... the THE OTHER RACE (WHITE) WOULD ALWAYS REMAIN JUST THAT: MENACING, ALIEN AND APART"

From Dreams Of My Father, "never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. IT WAS INTO MY FATHER'S IMAGE , THE BLACK MAN, THE SON OF AFRICA, THAT I'D PACKED ALL THE ATTRIBUTES I SOUGHT IN MYSELF.

From Dreams Of My Father:
"THAT HATE HADN'T GONE AWAY," he wrote, BLAMING WHITE PEOPLE,- SOME CRUEL, SOME IGNORANT, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives."

If these quotes had been made by a white candidate, and the racial roles in the quotes were reversed, they would have been ripped to pieces and labeled a racist. This cannot be denied. The book seems to be about him denying the known maternal heritage (white) and embrace the heritage of his father (black) who had abandoned him.

Also, his Pastor repeatedly, literally cursed America spouting "G D America!! G D America!!" Obama responded by saying that he could no more disown his Pastor than his white Grandmother, which is just idiocy. You can select Pastors, you cannot select Grandmothers.

Also, his wife spoke recently saying that for the first time in her life, she's proud to be an American. She's 40 something. So she's never been proud in her entire life until now?

As for his recent statement that rural Americans cling to religion and guns because they're bitter towards people with more money, it's ignorance. I'm in the lower economic bracket and I understand that I could have finished college if I had put forth the effort. I'm responsible for my economic situation just like people with more money than I worked for their money. I will not be pandered to.

Lastly, Obama was indeed a practicing Muslim. He went to a Catholic school where non Catholic children were also accepted. this is fact. Everything I have typed is fact. Take the time and research.

Once more, are there any good reasons to vote for this person? I see plenty of reasons not to vote for him.

Responses such as "He's better than Bush" are irrelevant because we're talking about electing our NEXT leader.

Responses such as "Well he'll be better than Hilary and McCain won't be accepted because, 1. you don't have to vote at all, and 2. we're talking about reasons to vote for Obama and reasons not to.

H8sMikeMoore

usually, he youth vote is naive. The liberal media wanted either him or hillary to win it. Obama has better speeches

No way. Clinton is so much more adept at managing her words wisely, although not always in the most truthful regard. Obama on the other hand is a horrible public speaker, especially on spontaneous occasions, such as his spoken words at the last Democratic Debate. Personally, I feel much more motivated to vote for Hillary, granted the opportunity.

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.LostProphetFLCL

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

1. The one claiming behind closed doors is the actual Pastor.

2. Obama was a member of the church for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters and was named Obama's spiritual mentor by Obama himself. The Pastor is one an Obama comittee. The title of one of Obama's books is named after one of Wright's sermons.

3. McCain has had NO connections like that with Hagee. No connections nearly that tight and suspicious. It's very different.

1) Point?

2) Yes I know, and do you actually think all of Wrights sermons are like the ones shown in the media?

3) Sure he hasn't.....

Oh wait, I forgot it doesn't matter because THE PASTORS AREN'T THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES!

1. The Pastor has no reason to lie. He is basically saying Obama thinks the government infected minorities with AIDs in an act of genocide. In agreeing with Wright's views, Obama would be filled with the same hatred for the country and it's white majority.

2. Look for other speeches of his at NAACP meetings. Also, find the entire sermon. Even if there weren't more examples, Wright still showed his true colors. Those are statements that are independant of context.

3. McCain has not attended Hagee's church for 20 years. He has not named Hagee his spiritual mentor. He has not put Hagee on any of his commitees. He was not so influenced by Hagee that he named a book after his sermon.

1) The pastor is proving himself to be a media whore and his going against what Obama says keeps attention on him.

2) So you would argue that just 2 two examples would be enough to say that they are his true colors? Wow talk about shortsighted.

3) Mccain has made friends with Hagee and others like him. It isn't a case of him making friends with just one failure of a human being but multiple people.

4) In case you didn't hear, Obama has come out and mentioned that after Wrights going out and speaking for him Obama is now cutting ties with the man. He once again re-iterated that he does NOT share Wrights views as well. But hey, I am guessing that doesn't mean **** to you because logic and the word of those who are in discussion mean nothing to you.

1. He's not going against anything. He's holding the values he always has and now Obama is forced to disagree publicly because of votes when up until now, he's been in silent agreement Sunday after Sunday.

2. So because those are the only 2 in video circulation, that means they're the only 2 times he's voiced those views? That's poor logic. Also, he has never said that he didn't mean those things exactly as he said them, so obviously he believes what he speaks even if he hasn't spoken them often.

3. Making friends with someone is a lot different than calling them your spiritual mentor, putting them on a comittee, and having them baptise your family. I hope you understand the difference.

4. Of course he's cutting ties with him. People are finally smartening up and getting elected is more important than loyalty to Obama. Just because he's cutting ties doesn't mean he still doesn't hold onto those biggoted and hateful beliefs. It's not like he's going to come out and verbally endorse those insane rants. Wow, talk about naive.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.Trashface

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

1. The one claiming behind closed doors is the actual Pastor.

2. Obama was a member of the church for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters and was named Obama's spiritual mentor by Obama himself. The Pastor is one an Obama comittee. The title of one of Obama's books is named after one of Wright's sermons.

3. McCain has had NO connections like that with Hagee. No connections nearly that tight and suspicious. It's very different.

1) Point?

2) Yes I know, and do you actually think all of Wrights sermons are like the ones shown in the media?

3) Sure he hasn't.....

Oh wait, I forgot it doesn't matter because THE PASTORS AREN'T THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES!

1. The Pastor has no reason to lie. He is basically saying Obama thinks the government infected minorities with AIDs in an act of genocide. In agreeing with Wright's views, Obama would be filled with the same hatred for the country and it's white majority.

2. Look for other speeches of his at NAACP meetings. Also, find the entire sermon. Even if there weren't more examples, Wright still showed his true colors. Those are statements that are independant of context.

3. McCain has not attended Hagee's church for 20 years. He has not named Hagee his spiritual mentor. He has not put Hagee on any of his commitees. He was not so influenced by Hagee that he named a book after his sermon.

1) The pastor is proving himself to be a media whore and his going against what Obama says keeps attention on him.

2) So you would argue that just 2 two examples would be enough to say that they are his true colors? Wow talk about shortsighted.

3) Mccain has made friends with Hagee and others like him. It isn't a case of him making friends with just one failure of a human being but multiple people.

4) In case you didn't hear, Obama has come out and mentioned that after Wrights going out and speaking for him Obama is now cutting ties with the man. He once again re-iterated that he does NOT share Wrights views as well. But hey, I am guessing that doesn't mean **** to you because logic and the word of those who are in discussion mean nothing to you.

1. He's not going against anything. He's holding the values he always has and now Obama is forced to disagree publicly because of votes when up until now, he's been in silent agreement Sunday after Sunday.

2. So because those are the only 2 in video circulation, that means they're the only 2 times he's voiced those views? That's poor logic. Also, he has never said that he didn't mean those things exactly as he said them, so obviously he believes what he speaks even if he hasn't spoken them often.

3. Making friends with someone is a lot different than calling them your spiritual mentor, putting them on a comittee, and having them baptise your family. I hope you understand the difference.

4. Of course he's cutting ties with him. People are finally smartening up and getting elected is more important than loyalty to Obama. Just because he's cutting ties doesn't mean he still doesn't hold onto those biggoted and hateful beliefs. It's not like he's going to come out and verbally endorse those insane rants. Wow, talk about naive.

Wow, ironic.

You're still making false inferences about a persons character based on a secondary source. Also, Reverend Wright is speaking his mind, I don't see the big deal here. Is anything he's saying hurting this country? Not so far as I can tell. Staying in a pointless war is hurting this country. So Obama doing what's necessary to achieve his goal is disloyal? I honestly cannot see where you're coming from on this. He's being forced to acknowledge publicly that he disagrees with some of Wright's views, rather than in privacy like he should be able to do.

He's being forced to acknowledge publicly that he disagrees with some of Wright's views, rather than in privacy like he should be able to do.

Thank you! This election has forced candidates to speak what should be private thoughts with the rest of the world.

obama is merely a media crafted canidate that ingeniously convinced a lot of younger people that he was the man apart they have been looking for when in fact that is entirely NOT the case. all he does is constantly repeat what people are generally known to like and vote for.

if this country was half intelligent they'd vote for the oddballs like Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich.

The reasons people have to vote for this man seem to be that he speaks of hope and change, he's young, and he's a good speaker. To me, these are not good enough reasons to elect someone President. He's accomplished nothing in the Senate, he has no leadership experience, and he hasn't gone into detail about how he would bring this change that he keeps speaking of.

Aside from these things, there are other things that make me very uneasy about him being elected. I have no problem with a black President, although he has made his race an issue.

Here are some quotes from one of his books:

From 'Dreams of My Father',
"I CEASED TO ADVERTISE MY MOTHER'S RACE AT THE AGE OF12 OR 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites"

From Dreams of My Father, " I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE AND ANIMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER'S RACE".

From 'Dreams of my Father', "The emotion between the races could never be pure..... the THE OTHER RACE (WHITE) WOULD ALWAYS REMAIN JUST THAT: MENACING, ALIEN AND APART"

From Dreams Of My Father, "never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. IT WAS INTO MY FATHER'S IMAGE , THE BLACK MAN, THE SON OF AFRICA, THAT I'D PACKED ALL THE ATTRIBUTES I SOUGHT IN MYSELF.

From Dreams Of My Father:
"THAT HATE HADN'T GONE AWAY," he wrote, BLAMING WHITE PEOPLE,- SOME CRUEL, SOME IGNORANT, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives."

If these quotes had been made by a white candidate, and the racial roles in the quotes were reversed, they would have been ripped to pieces and labeled a racist. This cannot be denied. The book seems to be about him denying the known maternal heritage (white) and embrace the heritage of his father (black) who had abandoned him.

Also, his Pastor repeatedly, literally cursed America spouting "G D America!! G D America!!" Obama responded by saying that he could no more disown his Pastor than his white Grandmother, which is just idiocy. You can select Pastors, you cannot select Grandmothers.

Also, his wife spoke recently saying that for the first time in her life, she's proud to be an American. She's 40 something. So she's never been proud in her entire life until now?

As for his recent statement that rural Americans cling to religion and guns because they're bitter towards people with more money, it's ignorance. I'm in the lower economic bracket and I understand that I could have finished college if I had put forth the effort. I'm responsible for my economic situation just like people with more money than I worked for their money. I will not be pandered to.

Lastly, Obama was indeed a practicing Muslim. He went to a Catholic school where non Catholic children were also accepted. this is fact. Everything I have typed is fact. Take the time and research.

Once more, are there any good reasons to vote for this person? I see plenty of reasons not to vote for him.

Responses such as "He's better than Bush" are irrelevant because we're talking about electing our NEXT leader.

Responses such as "Well he'll be better than Hilary and McCain won't be accepted because, 1. you don't have to vote at all, and 2. we're talking about reasons to vote for Obama and reasons not to.

Trashface

He's betta than Bush

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.Trashface

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

1. The one claiming behind closed doors is the actual Pastor.

2. Obama was a member of the church for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters and was named Obama's spiritual mentor by Obama himself. The Pastor is one an Obama comittee. The title of one of Obama's books is named after one of Wright's sermons.

3. McCain has had NO connections like that with Hagee. No connections nearly that tight and suspicious. It's very different.

1) Point?

2) Yes I know, and do you actually think all of Wrights sermons are like the ones shown in the media?

3) Sure he hasn't.....

Oh wait, I forgot it doesn't matter because THE PASTORS AREN'T THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES!

1. The Pastor has no reason to lie. He is basically saying Obama thinks the government infected minorities with AIDs in an act of genocide. In agreeing with Wright's views, Obama would be filled with the same hatred for the country and it's white majority.

2. Look for other speeches of his at NAACP meetings. Also, find the entire sermon. Even if there weren't more examples, Wright still showed his true colors. Those are statements that are independant of context.

3. McCain has not attended Hagee's church for 20 years. He has not named Hagee his spiritual mentor. He has not put Hagee on any of his commitees. He was not so influenced by Hagee that he named a book after his sermon.

1) The pastor is proving himself to be a media whore and his going against what Obama says keeps attention on him.

2) So you would argue that just 2 two examples would be enough to say that they are his true colors? Wow talk about shortsighted.

3) Mccain has made friends with Hagee and others like him. It isn't a case of him making friends with just one failure of a human being but multiple people.

4) In case you didn't hear, Obama has come out and mentioned that after Wrights going out and speaking for him Obama is now cutting ties with the man. He once again re-iterated that he does NOT share Wrights views as well. But hey, I am guessing that doesn't mean **** to you because logic and the word of those who are in discussion mean nothing to you.

1. He's not going against anything. He's holding the values he always has and now Obama is forced to disagree publicly because of votes when up until now, he's been in silent agreement Sunday after Sunday.

2. So because those are the only 2 in video circulation, that means they're the only 2 times he's voiced those views? That's poor logic. Also, he has never said that he didn't mean those things exactly as he said them, so obviously he believes what he speaks even if he hasn't spoken them often.

3. Making friends with someone is a lot different than calling them your spiritual mentor, putting them on a comittee, and having them baptise your family. I hope you understand the difference.

4. Of course he's cutting ties with him. People are finally smartening up and getting elected is more important than loyalty to Obama. Just because he's cutting ties doesn't mean he still doesn't hold onto those biggoted and hateful beliefs. It's not like he's going to come out and verbally endorse those insane rants. Wow, talk about naive.

1) Once again I can't help but think of you as mentally deficient here if you cannot understand this concept that friends and even family members don't have to share the same beliefs to be close. It is both stupid and egotistical of you to try and say what Obama believes despite him REPEATEDLY saying he disagrees with Wright.

2) No I don't believe those are the only two times, but do you really think that represents the majority of his preaching? I don't.

3) Are you saying you wouldn't put a friend on a committe? Also, wouldn't it be better to have a friend be a mentor and baptize your family?

4) Me naive? I am not the one sitting here trying to claim a man holds certain beliefs despite him repeatedly stating otherwise, lol.

He is cutting ties because of Wrights becoming a media whore. I am sure Obama could have stayed friends with the man had he not went out and stupidly tried to speak for Obama. I almost wonder if Wright was deliberately trying to sabotage his election the way the idiot acted.

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.LostProphetFLCL

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

1. The one claiming behind closed doors is the actual Pastor.

2. Obama was a member of the church for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters and was named Obama's spiritual mentor by Obama himself. The Pastor is one an Obama comittee. The title of one of Obama's books is named after one of Wright's sermons.

3. McCain has had NO connections like that with Hagee. No connections nearly that tight and suspicious. It's very different.

1) Point?

2) Yes I know, and do you actually think all of Wrights sermons are like the ones shown in the media?

3) Sure he hasn't.....

Oh wait, I forgot it doesn't matter because THE PASTORS AREN'T THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES!

1. The Pastor has no reason to lie. He is basically saying Obama thinks the government infected minorities with AIDs in an act of genocide. In agreeing with Wright's views, Obama would be filled with the same hatred for the country and it's white majority.

2. Look for other speeches of his at NAACP meetings. Also, find the entire sermon. Even if there weren't more examples, Wright still showed his true colors. Those are statements that are independant of context.

3. McCain has not attended Hagee's church for 20 years. He has not named Hagee his spiritual mentor. He has not put Hagee on any of his commitees. He was not so influenced by Hagee that he named a book after his sermon.

1) The pastor is proving himself to be a media whore and his going against what Obama says keeps attention on him.

2) So you would argue that just 2 two examples would be enough to say that they are his true colors? Wow talk about shortsighted.

3) Mccain has made friends with Hagee and others like him. It isn't a case of him making friends with just one failure of a human being but multiple people.

4) In case you didn't hear, Obama has come out and mentioned that after Wrights going out and speaking for him Obama is now cutting ties with the man. He once again re-iterated that he does NOT share Wrights views as well. But hey, I am guessing that doesn't mean **** to you because logic and the word of those who are in discussion mean nothing to you.

1. He's not going against anything. He's holding the values he always has and now Obama is forced to disagree publicly because of votes when up until now, he's been in silent agreement Sunday after Sunday.

2. So because those are the only 2 in video circulation, that means they're the only 2 times he's voiced those views? That's poor logic. Also, he has never said that he didn't mean those things exactly as he said them, so obviously he believes what he speaks even if he hasn't spoken them often.

3. Making friends with someone is a lot different than calling them your spiritual mentor, putting them on a comittee, and having them baptise your family. I hope you understand the difference.

4. Of course he's cutting ties with him. People are finally smartening up and getting elected is more important than loyalty to Obama. Just because he's cutting ties doesn't mean he still doesn't hold onto those biggoted and hateful beliefs. It's not like he's going to come out and verbally endorse those insane rants. Wow, talk about naive.

1) Once again I can't help but think of you as mentally deficient here if you cannot understand this concept that friends and even family members don't have to share the same beliefs to be close. It is both stupid and egotistical of you to try and say what Obama believes despite him REPEATEDLY saying he disagrees with Wright.

2) No I don't believe those are the only two times, but do you really think that represents the majority of his preaching? I don't.

3) Are you saying you wouldn't put a friend on a committe? Also, wouldn't it be better to have a friend be a mentor and baptize your family?

4) Me naive? I am not the one sitting here trying to claim a man holds certain beliefs despite him repeatedly stating otherwise, lol.

He is cutting ties because of Wrights becoming a media whore. I am sure Obama could have stayed friends with the man had he not went out and stupidly tried to speak for Obama. I almost wonder if Wright was deliberately trying to sabotage his election the way the idiot acted.

1. If he doesn't share his beliefs, why would he put him on a committee and call him a spiritual mentor??? I would be more civil, but you don't care to and I can't take your naive blind eye rubbish anymore. Are you stupid enough to believe Obama would publicly admit to believing the government partook in genocide of minorities? You're living proof that IQ tests should be required before you're allowed to vote. People with your lack of mental skills are a danger to the country.

2.Him even believing those things and speaking them publicly shows how extreme his viewpoints are. Obama has named him his spiritual advisor. It would have taken one of those sermons to have me looking for another church. Once again, you're a blind fanboy who doesn't have sense of reason.

3.If I was passionate enough to be a politician and came across someone with such hatefully passionate anti American feelings, there is no way they would be allowed that close to me. They wouldn't have been a close friend in the first place. It would have been far too disgusting.

4.Not only are you naive, but also very foolish. You think he would admit to agreeing with those things?

Of course Obama is cutting ties. It's hurting his numbers very badly.

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.Atheos-Arkhaios

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

1. The one claiming behind closed doors is the actual Pastor.

2. Obama was a member of the church for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters and was named Obama's spiritual mentor by Obama himself. The Pastor is one an Obama comittee. The title of one of Obama's books is named after one of Wright's sermons.

3. McCain has had NO connections like that with Hagee. No connections nearly that tight and suspicious. It's very different.

1) Point?

2) Yes I know, and do you actually think all of Wrights sermons are like the ones shown in the media?

3) Sure he hasn't.....

Oh wait, I forgot it doesn't matter because THE PASTORS AREN'T THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES!

1. The Pastor has no reason to lie. He is basically saying Obama thinks the government infected minorities with AIDs in an act of genocide. In agreeing with Wright's views, Obama would be filled with the same hatred for the country and it's white majority.

2. Look for other speeches of his at NAACP meetings. Also, find the entire sermon. Even if there weren't more examples, Wright still showed his true colors. Those are statements that are independant of context.

3. McCain has not attended Hagee's church for 20 years. He has not named Hagee his spiritual mentor. He has not put Hagee on any of his commitees. He was not so influenced by Hagee that he named a book after his sermon.

1) The pastor is proving himself to be a media whore and his going against what Obama says keeps attention on him.

2) So you would argue that just 2 two examples would be enough to say that they are his true colors? Wow talk about shortsighted.

3) Mccain has made friends with Hagee and others like him. It isn't a case of him making friends with just one failure of a human being but multiple people.

4) In case you didn't hear, Obama has come out and mentioned that after Wrights going out and speaking for him Obama is now cutting ties with the man. He once again re-iterated that he does NOT share Wrights views as well. But hey, I am guessing that doesn't mean **** to you because logic and the word of those who are in discussion mean nothing to you.

1. He's not going against anything. He's holding the values he always has and now Obama is forced to disagree publicly because of votes when up until now, he's been in silent agreement Sunday after Sunday.

2. So because those are the only 2 in video circulation, that means they're the only 2 times he's voiced those views? That's poor logic. Also, he has never said that he didn't mean those things exactly as he said them, so obviously he believes what he speaks even if he hasn't spoken them often.

3. Making friends with someone is a lot different than calling them your spiritual mentor, putting them on a comittee, and having them baptise your family. I hope you understand the difference.

4. Of course he's cutting ties with him. People are finally smartening up and getting elected is more important than loyalty to Obama. Just because he's cutting ties doesn't mean he still doesn't hold onto those biggoted and hateful beliefs. It's not like he's going to come out and verbally endorse those insane rants. Wow, talk about naive.

Wow, ironic.

You're still making false inferences about a persons character based on a secondary source. Also, Reverend Wright is speaking his mind, I don't see the big deal here. Is anything he's saying hurting this country? Not so far as I can tell. Staying in a pointless war is hurting this country. So Obama doing what's necessary to achieve his goal is disloyal? I honestly cannot see where you're coming from on this. He's being forced to acknowledge publicly that he disagrees with some of Wright's views, rather than in privacy like he should be able to do.

You're seriously not smart enough to understand that Obama naming Wright his spiritual mentor is telling that they share core beliefs? Wright didn't hide those beliefs. Obama witnessed them. It's not what he's saying. It's that it's very possible Obama holds those same beliefs. It's sad that you can't grasp the concept. I've explain it repeatedly. About the war, Obama stated himself that if the troops were pulled out, it would be a disaster. Now he wants to pull them out. He's pandering to the popular democratic opinion and you're eating it up. He's being forced publicly to agree with whatever he has to in order to keep his campaign from falling apart.

[QUOTE="Trashface"]

The reasons people have to vote for this man seem to be that he speaks of hope and change, he's young, and he's a good speaker. To me, these are not good enough reasons to elect someone President. He's accomplished nothing in the Senate, he has no leadership experience, and he hasn't gone into detail about how he would bring this change that he keeps speaking of.

Aside from these things, there are other things that make me very uneasy about him being elected. I have no problem with a black President, although he has made his race an issue.

Here are some quotes from one of his books:

From 'Dreams of My Father',
"I CEASED TO ADVERTISE MY MOTHER'S RACE AT THE AGE OF12 OR 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites"

From Dreams of My Father, " I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE AND ANIMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER'S RACE".

From 'Dreams of my Father', "The emotion between the races could never be pure..... the THE OTHER RACE (WHITE) WOULD ALWAYS REMAIN JUST THAT: MENACING, ALIEN AND APART"

From Dreams Of My Father, "never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. IT WAS INTO MY FATHER'S IMAGE , THE BLACK MAN, THE SON OF AFRICA, THAT I'D PACKED ALL THE ATTRIBUTES I SOUGHT IN MYSELF.

From Dreams Of My Father:
"THAT HATE HADN'T GONE AWAY," he wrote, BLAMING WHITE PEOPLE,- SOME CRUEL, SOME IGNORANT, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives."

If these quotes had been made by a white candidate, and the racial roles in the quotes were reversed, they would have been ripped to pieces and labeled a racist. This cannot be denied. The book seems to be about him denying the known maternal heritage (white) and embrace the heritage of his father (black) who had abandoned him.

Also, his Pastor repeatedly, literally cursed America spouting "G D America!! G D America!!" Obama responded by saying that he could no more disown his Pastor than his white Grandmother, which is just idiocy. You can select Pastors, you cannot select Grandmothers.

Also, his wife spoke recently saying that for the first time in her life, she's proud to be an American. She's 40 something. So she's never been proud in her entire life until now?

As for his recent statement that rural Americans cling to religion and guns because they're bitter towards people with more money, it's ignorance. I'm in the lower economic bracket and I understand that I could have finished college if I had put forth the effort. I'm responsible for my economic situation just like people with more money than I worked for their money. I will not be pandered to.

Lastly, Obama was indeed a practicing Muslim. He went to a Catholic school where non Catholic children were also accepted. this is fact. Everything I have typed is fact. Take the time and research.

Once more, are there any good reasons to vote for this person? I see plenty of reasons not to vote for him.

Responses such as "He's better than Bush" are irrelevant because we're talking about electing our NEXT leader.

Responses such as "Well he'll be better than Hilary and McCain won't be accepted because, 1. you don't have to vote at all, and 2. we're talking about reasons to vote for Obama and reasons not to.

DrCoCoPiMp

He's betta than Bush

That's not enough reason to vote for anyone when the President is at the end of his term.

[QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.Trashface

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

1. The one claiming behind closed doors is the actual Pastor.

2. Obama was a member of the church for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters and was named Obama's spiritual mentor by Obama himself. The Pastor is one an Obama comittee. The title of one of Obama's books is named after one of Wright's sermons.

3. McCain has had NO connections like that with Hagee. No connections nearly that tight and suspicious. It's very different.

1) Point?

2) Yes I know, and do you actually think all of Wrights sermons are like the ones shown in the media?

3) Sure he hasn't.....

Oh wait, I forgot it doesn't matter because THE PASTORS AREN'T THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES!

1. The Pastor has no reason to lie. He is basically saying Obama thinks the government infected minorities with AIDs in an act of genocide. In agreeing with Wright's views, Obama would be filled with the same hatred for the country and it's white majority.

2. Look for other speeches of his at NAACP meetings. Also, find the entire sermon. Even if there weren't more examples, Wright still showed his true colors. Those are statements that are independant of context.

3. McCain has not attended Hagee's church for 20 years. He has not named Hagee his spiritual mentor. He has not put Hagee on any of his commitees. He was not so influenced by Hagee that he named a book after his sermon.

1) The pastor is proving himself to be a media whore and his going against what Obama says keeps attention on him.

2) So you would argue that just 2 two examples would be enough to say that they are his true colors? Wow talk about shortsighted.

3) Mccain has made friends with Hagee and others like him. It isn't a case of him making friends with just one failure of a human being but multiple people.

4) In case you didn't hear, Obama has come out and mentioned that after Wrights going out and speaking for him Obama is now cutting ties with the man. He once again re-iterated that he does NOT share Wrights views as well. But hey, I am guessing that doesn't mean **** to you because logic and the word of those who are in discussion mean nothing to you.

1. He's not going against anything. He's holding the values he always has and now Obama is forced to disagree publicly because of votes when up until now, he's been in silent agreement Sunday after Sunday.

2. So because those are the only 2 in video circulation, that means they're the only 2 times he's voiced those views? That's poor logic. Also, he has never said that he didn't mean those things exactly as he said them, so obviously he believes what he speaks even if he hasn't spoken them often.

3. Making friends with someone is a lot different than calling them your spiritual mentor, putting them on a comittee, and having them baptise your family. I hope you understand the difference.

4. Of course he's cutting ties with him. People are finally smartening up and getting elected is more important than loyalty to Obama. Just because he's cutting ties doesn't mean he still doesn't hold onto those biggoted and hateful beliefs. It's not like he's going to come out and verbally endorse those insane rants. Wow, talk about naive.

Wow, ironic.

You're still making false inferences about a persons character based on a secondary source. Also, Reverend Wright is speaking his mind, I don't see the big deal here. Is anything he's saying hurting this country? Not so far as I can tell. Staying in a pointless war is hurting this country. So Obama doing what's necessary to achieve his goal is disloyal? I honestly cannot see where you're coming from on this. He's being forced to acknowledge publicly that he disagrees with some of Wright's views, rather than in privacy like he should be able to do.

You're seriously not smart enough to understand that Obama naming Wright his spiritual mentor is telling that they share core beliefs? Wright didn't hide those beliefs. Obama witnessed them. It's not what he's saying. It's that it's very possible Obama holds those same beliefs. It's sad that you can't grasp the concept. I've explain it repeatedly. About the war, Obama stated himself that if the troops were pulled out, it would be a disaster. Now he wants to pull them out. He's pandering to the popular democratic opinion and you're eating it up. He's being forced publicly to agree with whatever he has to in order to keep his campaign from falling apart.

This has gone one for 15 pages and you still don't understand. I can easily grasp the concept you speak of, but it is also easy for me to use the evidence to deduce the likely facts of the situation, which are contrary to what you seem to think. What exactly do you mean when you say "core beliefs"? That AIDS was created by the government? Because to me, that is a secondary issue, and the "core belief" they share most likely has more to do with the RELIGIOUS beliefs, such as God loving everyone etc., rather than POLITICAL beliefs. Did Obama ever say Wright was his Political Mentor? No, he didn't.

Thing is, the US used to be the leading country when it came to finding good solutions in international relationships. Wilson's 14 points program could've avoided the second world war if it had been correctly implemented and throughout the first half of the 20th century you supported democratization when it happened by the free will of the people who lived in the countries in question.

After world war 2 the world changed with it international relationships. Everything got more complex and harder to grasp, I don't think there's any way to truly understand what is going on in the world today. Politics and business are almost the same thing nowadays, wars are fought over oil and drugs and while in the past everyone at least tried to believe they did the correct and good thing it seems as if that is a forgotten principle.

/alcohol induced rant

I don't live in the US and can't vote for your next president but I support Obama because he at least seems to truly want to do good, while both Hillary and McCain are essentially slight variations of the same people that have been running your country the last 25 years.

[QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="Atheos-Arkhaios"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.Atheos-Arkhaios

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

1. The one claiming behind closed doors is the actual Pastor.

2. Obama was a member of the church for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters and was named Obama's spiritual mentor by Obama himself. The Pastor is one an Obama comittee. The title of one of Obama's books is named after one of Wright's sermons.

3. McCain has had NO connections like that with Hagee. No connections nearly that tight and suspicious. It's very different.

1) Point?

2) Yes I know, and do you actually think all of Wrights sermons are like the ones shown in the media?

3) Sure he hasn't.....

Oh wait, I forgot it doesn't matter because THE PASTORS AREN'T THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES!

1. The Pastor has no reason to lie. He is basically saying Obama thinks the government infected minorities with AIDs in an act of genocide. In agreeing with Wright's views, Obama would be filled with the same hatred for the country and it's white majority.

2. Look for other speeches of his at NAACP meetings. Also, find the entire sermon. Even if there weren't more examples, Wright still showed his true colors. Those are statements that are independant of context.

3. McCain has not attended Hagee's church for 20 years. He has not named Hagee his spiritual mentor. He has not put Hagee on any of his commitees. He was not so influenced by Hagee that he named a book after his sermon.

1) The pastor is proving himself to be a media whore and his going against what Obama says keeps attention on him.

2) So you would argue that just 2 two examples would be enough to say that they are his true colors? Wow talk about shortsighted.

3) Mccain has made friends with Hagee and others like him. It isn't a case of him making friends with just one failure of a human being but multiple people.

4) In case you didn't hear, Obama has come out and mentioned that after Wrights going out and speaking for him Obama is now cutting ties with the man. He once again re-iterated that he does NOT share Wrights views as well. But hey, I am guessing that doesn't mean **** to you because logic and the word of those who are in discussion mean nothing to you.

1. He's not going against anything. He's holding the values he always has and now Obama is forced to disagree publicly because of votes when up until now, he's been in silent agreement Sunday after Sunday.

2. So because those are the only 2 in video circulation, that means they're the only 2 times he's voiced those views? That's poor logic. Also, he has never said that he didn't mean those things exactly as he said them, so obviously he believes what he speaks even if he hasn't spoken them often.

3. Making friends with someone is a lot different than calling them your spiritual mentor, putting them on a comittee, and having them baptise your family. I hope you understand the difference.

4. Of course he's cutting ties with him. People are finally smartening up and getting elected is more important than loyalty to Obama. Just because he's cutting ties doesn't mean he still doesn't hold onto those biggoted and hateful beliefs. It's not like he's going to come out and verbally endorse those insane rants. Wow, talk about naive.

Wow, ironic.

You're still making false inferences about a persons character based on a secondary source. Also, Reverend Wright is speaking his mind, I don't see the big deal here. Is anything he's saying hurting this country? Not so far as I can tell. Staying in a pointless war is hurting this country. So Obama doing what's necessary to achieve his goal is disloyal? I honestly cannot see where you're coming from on this. He's being forced to acknowledge publicly that he disagrees with some of Wright's views, rather than in privacy like he should be able to do.

You're seriously not smart enough to understand that Obama naming Wright his spiritual mentor is telling that they share core beliefs? Wright didn't hide those beliefs. Obama witnessed them. It's not what he's saying. It's that it's very possible Obama holds those same beliefs. It's sad that you can't grasp the concept. I've explain it repeatedly. About the war, Obama stated himself that if the troops were pulled out, it would be a disaster. Now he wants to pull them out. He's pandering to the popular democratic opinion and you're eating it up. He's being forced publicly to agree with whatever he has to in order to keep his campaign from falling apart.

This has gone one for 15 pages and you still don't understand. I can easily grasp the concept you speak of, but it is also easy for me to use the evidence to deduce the likely facts of the situation, which are contrary to what you seem to think. What exactly do you mean when you say "core beliefs"? That AIDS was created by the government? Because to me, that is a secondary issue, and the "core belief" they share most likely has more to do with the RELIGIOUS beliefs, such as God loving everyone etc., rather than POLITICAL beliefs. Did Obama ever say Wright was his Political Mentor? No, he didn't.

You've also repeatedly ignored my requests for this to remain civil, which shows me that you are either a) much too immature to have a conversation about this issue, or b) simply inconsiderate enough to continue insulting me when I'm trying to have a mature discussion with you. So, in light of this, I'm done talking to you about this, I hope that you can grow as an individual and hopefully learn to critically assess real-world situations for yourself at some point.Atheos-Arkhaios

If you don't remember, when I was being uncivil, I wasn't addressing you. I was addressing LostProphet who was uncivil and childish in his very first post. The closest that I've come to being uncivil was to call you confused. You've said the same about me.

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"][QUOTE="Trashface"][QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="Trashface"]Hopefully he'll lose and you'll leave the country. Then we will have one less weak minded, oblivious person.Trashface

Edit: Damn glitchspot didn't put in what I wrote first try.

So I am weakminded for actually looking into the issues rather than eating up the BS strawman tactics?:roll:

Yeah, the controversy involving Obamas pastor is bs, considering Obama has openly stated he doesn't agree with everything the man says. But yeah, I guess someone else claiming Obama DOES agree behind closed doors matters more than Obamas repeated statement that he doesn't agree with everything the man says:roll:

As I have said before IN THIS VERY TOPIC Mccain is affiliated with multiple people who make Wright look like Ghandi and yet he takes no flack for it. That is the definition of BS right there.

1. The one claiming behind closed doors is the actual Pastor.

2. Obama was a member of the church for 20 years. The Pastor baptised his 2 daughters and was named Obama's spiritual mentor by Obama himself. The Pastor is one an Obama comittee. The title of one of Obama's books is named after one of Wright's sermons.

3. McCain has had NO connections like that with Hagee. No connections nearly that tight and suspicious. It's very different.

1) Point?

2) Yes I know, and do you actually think all of Wrights sermons are like the ones shown in the media?

3) Sure he hasn't.....

Oh wait, I forgot it doesn't matter because THE PASTORS AREN'T THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES!

1. The Pastor has no reason to lie. He is basically saying Obama thinks the government infected minorities with AIDs in an act of genocide. In agreeing with Wright's views, Obama would be filled with the same hatred for the country and it's white majority.

2. Look for other speeches of his at NAACP meetings. Also, find the entire sermon. Even if there weren't more examples, Wright still showed his true colors. Those are statements that are independant of context.

3. McCain has not attended Hagee's church for 20 years. He has not named Hagee his spiritual mentor. He has not put Hagee on any of his commitees. He was not so influenced by Hagee that he named a book after his sermon.

1) The pastor is proving himself to be a media whore and his going against what Obama says keeps attention on him.

2) So you would argue that just 2 two examples would be enough to say that they are his true colors? Wow talk about shortsighted.

3) Mccain has made friends with Hagee and others like him. It isn't a case of him making friends with just one failure of a human being but multiple people.

4) In case you didn't hear, Obama has come out and mentioned that after Wrights going out and speaking for him Obama is now cutting ties with the man. He once again re-iterated that he does NOT share Wrights views as well. But hey, I am guessing that doesn't mean **** to you because logic and the word of those who are in discussion mean nothing to you.

1. He's not going against anything. He's holding the values he always has and now Obama is forced to disagree publicly because of votes when up until now, he's been in silent agreement Sunday after Sunday.

2. So because those are the only 2 in video circulation, that means they're the only 2 times he's voiced those views? That's poor logic. Also, he has never said that he didn't mean those things exactly as he said them, so obviously he believes what he speaks even if he hasn't spoken them often.

3. Making friends with someone is a lot different than calling them your spiritual mentor, putting them on a comittee, and having them baptise your family. I hope you understand the difference.

4. Of course he's cutting ties with him. People are finally smartening up and getting elected is more important than loyalty to Obama. Just because he's cutting ties doesn't mean he still doesn't hold onto those biggoted and hateful beliefs. It's not like he's going to come out and verbally endorse those insane rants. Wow, talk about naive.

1) Once again I can't help but think of you as mentally deficient here if you cannot understand this concept that friends and even family members don't have to share the same beliefs to be close. It is both stupid and egotistical of you to try and say what Obama believes despite him REPEATEDLY saying he disagrees with Wright.

2) No I don't believe those are the only two times, but do you really think that represents the majority of his preaching? I don't.

3) Are you saying you wouldn't put a friend on a committe? Also, wouldn't it be better to have a friend be a mentor and baptize your family?

4) Me naive? I am not the one sitting here trying to claim a man holds certain beliefs despite him repeatedly stating otherwise, lol.

He is cutting ties because of Wrights becoming a media whore. I am sure Obama could have stayed friends with the man had he not went out and stupidly tried to speak for Obama. I almost wonder if Wright was deliberately trying to sabotage his election the way the idiot acted.

1. If he doesn't share his beliefs, why would he put him on a committee and call him a spiritual mentor??? I would be more civil, but you don't care to and I can't take your naive blind eye rubbish anymore. Are you stupid enough to believe Obama would publicly admit to believing the government partook in genocide of minorities? You're living proof that IQ tests should be required before you're allowed to vote. People with your lack of mental skills are a danger to the country.

2.Him even believing those things and speaking them publicly shows how extreme his viewpoints are. Obama has named him his spiritual advisor. It would have taken one of those sermons to have me looking for another church. Once again, you're a blind fanboy who doesn't have sense of reason.

3.If I was passionate enough to be a politician and came across someone with such hatefully passionate anti American feelings, there is no way they would be allowed that close to me. They wouldn't have been a close friend in the first place. It would have been far too disgusting.

4.Not only are you naive, but also very foolish. You think he would admit to agreeing with those things?

Of course Obama is cutting ties. It's hurting his numbers very badly.

First off, I am killing the quote tree. These things grow so damn huge so fast it is CRAZY!

1) Do you know Wright personally? No. Despite some of the insane stuff that has spewed out of his mouth doesn't mean he is incapable of running a comitte well. I never complained about the civility of the arguement, lol. I have trouble staying civil in these arguements now because you are far from the first person I have argued about this with and I have little impatience for stupidity.

Of course Obama wouldn't admit to agreeing, but how does that mean he agrees? He has stated that he disagreed with those views from day one, and I happen to believe this. If he actually believed such crazy things and had so much pent up hatred it easily would have slipped by now.

lol and don't even try and bring up intelligence. I am a highly intelligent person who has remained on honor roll pretty much all my life and through little effort at times. I would bring up my IQ score I got, but it was a random online one I took for fun and I really don't trust the result as I have heard other people taking online tests and getting 126 which isn't that far away from genius level.....

Oh and FYI I consider myself intelligent but NOT a genius.

2) ok those are obviously his views but that says nothing about his other sermons. You seem to automatically play "connect the dots to make Obama look bad" without taking 5 seconds to stop and actually use logic to bring up doubt. The bias is amazing.

About that looking for a new church, I once again ask do you know what Wrights other sermons are like? How do you even know for sure that these beliefs are long-withstanding? For all we know Obama had been friends with the man for YEARS before these views surfaced. Would you throw away a friend you had had for years for making a few extreme comments?

I am not the fanboy here. I am sitting here using reason. You on the other hand are playing connnect the dots all-over with no knowlege on what you speak of.

3) Once again it is hillarious how egotistical you are because you sit here acting as if you know Obamas life story. I direct you to re-read my point #2 to see exactly what is so incredibly wrong with your thinking.

4) As I mentioned Obama is cutting ties now that Wright is going off and trying to speak for Obama. If there is anything I hate personally, one of them is definitely someone trying to speak for me and act as if they know what I want and think.

No I am not naive. I don't jump to conclusions off such little information. You might want to try playing devils advocate sometime because you might find that we know way too little to sit here and try to judge Obama the way you are.