Proof that God DOESNT exist (in an Athiests eyes)

I believe the argument has some validity against god. Even if you were to eliminate all the disasters and wars out of the equation, every single day 16000 children die of starvation related causes, that is one child every 5 seconds. It is also stated in the bible that you must believe or suffer "John 3:16-19 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned"

So children born in different areas around the world and taught different religions that are not Christianity are to suffer in hell, and I believe there are also verses in the bible stating if you believe in other gods outside of Christianity you are also going to suffer for it. Even if you were to look at the story's in the bible about Noahs ark and the great flood, or even the age of the earth, all it takes is a simple google search to disprove all that information. That's mostly the problem I have with Christians, they pick and choose what they like and claim it as the word of god while ignoring everything else. How are you so certain what you believe is true when so much has been disproved already?

and hell, even if you wanted to claim it's full of errors because it was written by men and every bad thing in it (whether slavery, rape, killing etc) is just all taken out of context, you can still look back at how many times it's been ****ed with over the ages, revised and translated. Here is one of my favourite quotes

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God"

[QUOTE="codymcclain14"]>Well you answered your first question, "those are man made".

And the second thing you brought up, [ about Japan ] just kinda proves God is real. Japan is mostly a Buddhist nation, God will bring destruction to all nations who does not fallow him. And also, all the natural disasters that we are seeing today was predicted in the Bible.

Your post is far from real 'proof' just another opinion.

I myself am still believes in God.

lol? :?

Where and how were they predicted in the Bible?

I think you're being a bit harsh on Hitler Stalin and Pol Pot by putting them in the same category as Hasselhoff.

There's something very wrong with this title, anyway. Either you have proof that God doesn't exist or you don't...

OH yes a very common string of reasoning... if God was all powerful he wouldn't allow people to suffer... that has been asked for thousands of years. No doubt natural and human disasters have been going on through the time of this world. Well you might want to think about why God would intervene, if he intervened at these events and stopped them from happening then God would be a huge hypocrite. Him intervening would, I assume, lead me to believe he wants us to to be safe and free from danger and wants us to live. But why would he want these things, you thus must ask the question what is our purpose than, if God intervened from having every bad thing happen on this earth than the purpose revolves around us humans.

But the Bible does not teach this, the Bible teaches that out main reason for living is to give God glory in everything we do and enjoy doing it. So obviously there are no promises of safety and security in this command. So I will not question why God does the things he does or doesn't do, for He created the heavens and the earth and the universe. For me to say I don't think God is doing things correctly is hugely stupid, who am I a human compared to the almighty creater???? I'm sure God knows best and I am damn well sure he knows one or two things I don't.

One thing I do know and this is pinnacle, that whatever God does or doesn't do it can't be because He doesn't love us and wants the best for us. God loves us and wants the best for us no matter what the circumstances, the question is do ... you ... believe... this.

First of all, I most certainly dont talk for every Athiest in the world i'm but one man in this universe with a sense of belief or better put would be a sense of disbelief, disbelief of god that is, well the christian god that i would have to say is the most common in god to be worshipped in the Western World.

If god is this all powerful being that created the universe and answers the prayers of the rightious and just and will save you aslong as you are faithful to him, then why does he allow so many innocent people to die?

Surely the bible preachers peace and fellowship amongst all men and women across the planet and it lays down a set of laws that humans must follow to stay rightious during their time on this world otherwise he will vanquish them, which he surely will do, i mean it says so in the bible there is storys of him punishing people and sending entire apocalypses to wipe them out.

And yet....

He let that happen, i mean the common consensus amongst alot of christians that i have come across and seen in american media is that he does everything, if he can give a baby of completely innocent and god-fearing parents a life threatening condition that makes it die before its a teenager couldnt he have done the same for good ole Adolf,

Or Stalin

Or Pol Pot

or even the hoff

or stopped this from happening, i mean surely he could have pulled a gust of wind out of bum that made the plane have to immediately land or even created a storm to dangerous to fly in,

Okay okay sure they are all man made disasters i mean americans dropped the bomb, germans spawned hitler that was corrupted by a school knocking him back in vienna and fueld by his hatred of what the allies did to his country while stalin was probabaly touched as a child by nothing other than a man.

but then what about his....

The 2004 tsunami i'm sure you all remember this doozy of nature that was responsible for hundreds of thosuands of deaths,

Or haiti, what you still dont remember this other act of nature that killed hundreds of thousands?

ok what about this,

You have to remember this, it was in Japan not too long ago it was all across the news,

If god is supposed to protect the innocent and not punish them, then why did all this happen, i mean surely man couldnt have caused all those earthquakes, surely not all of those killed were terrible people there had to be a few innocent ones in there that didnt deserve to die.

Why does he let this happen if there truely is an all powerful god?

My answer is simple, there is no god or if there is he is nothing like we think he is, he may aswell be Cthulu.

Or maybe he wasnt responsible for those earhtquakes and such maybe he just didnt notice the tremors and couldnt stop them because he was too busy giving Aids to babys in africa and causing drought?

sonofsmeagle

God is not going to get involved in people's lives like some people think that God does. God's not going to choose one team over another or even one person over another. If God chose to intervene in things and create miracles for all to see, then people would have NO choice but to believe in God's existence, which is no choice at all. God created evil so that you have a choice, you can believe in God, you can believe in evil, or you can believe in nothing ethereal. It's free will to have faith or not. The earth is not supposed to be paradise, that's what Heaven is for.

God is not going to get involved in people's lives like some people think that God does. God's not going to choose one team over another or even one person over another. If God chose to intervene in things and create miracles for all to see, then people would have NO choice but to believe in God's existence, which is no choice at all. God created evil so that you have a choice, you can believe in God, you can believe in evil, or you can believe in nothing ethereal. It's free will to have faith or not. The earth is not supposed to be paradise, that's what Heaven is for.Sunfyre7896

That's awfully convenient.

*Great wall of china*XileLord

:D

TheFlush

Dude, you are complaining about people preaching out to other to believe in God, yet you yourself are not respecting other people's beliefs and you are preaching out to other to not believe in God. How are you any better? So what if someone believes in God? That is there belief. Let it be. Nobody is going to stop believing God simply because you said so. Maybe there is a God. Maybe God wanted everything to be up to choice. Isn't life possibly one big test of whether or not we are good and bad and how that can possibly be judged? If you are Athiest, I have no problem with that man, but simply making a big deal about people who have different beliefs than you is ridiculous. TheManofTin

religion has always been a cancer in society, thankfully today religion doesn't have nowhere near the same power as before, they always tried to mold science to fit their beliefs or it was heresy, they waged wars in the name of god, they killed people just because they didn't believe in them, even now they try to hold on to some kind of control by using the beliefs of many people who buy their lies. Religion needs to go, if you are allowed to preach your beliefs so is everyone else.

Life a test? watch a kid with cancer who doesn't know the first thing about life dying without a chance, without knowing why, and tell him, hey this is your test! i don't acknowledge any god who allows so much wrong in the world to so many people who don't deserve it.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God"

:D

TheFlush

hahaha, wow.

First of all, I most certainly dont talk for every Athiest in the world i'm but one man in this universe with a sense of belief or better put would be a sense of disbelief, disbelief of god that is, well the christian god that i would have to say is the most common in god to be worshipped in the Western World.

If god is this all powerful being that created the universe and answers the prayers of the rightious and just and will save you aslong as you are faithful to him, then why does he allow so many innocent people to die?

Surely the bible preachers peace and fellowship amongst all men and women across the planet and it lays down a set of laws that humans must follow to stay rightious during their time on this world otherwise he will vanquish them, which he surely will do, i mean it says so in the bible there is storys of him punishing people and sending entire apocalypses to wipe them out.

And yet....

He let that happen, i mean the common consensus amongst alot of christians that i have come across and seen in american media is that he does everything, if he can give a baby of completely innocent and god-fearing parents a life threatening condition that makes it die before its a teenager couldnt he have done the same for good ole Adolf,

Or Stalin

Or Pol Pot

or even the hoff

or stopped this from happening, i mean surely he could have pulled a gust of wind out of bum that made the plane have to immediately land or even created a storm to dangerous to fly in,

Okay okay sure they are all man made disasters i mean americans dropped the bomb, germans spawned hitler that was corrupted by a school knocking him back in vienna and fueld by his hatred of what the allies did to his country while stalin was probabaly touched as a child by nothing other than a man.

but then what about his....

The 2004 tsunami i'm sure you all remember this doozy of nature that was responsible for hundreds of thosuands of deaths,

Or haiti, what you still dont remember this other act of nature that killed hundreds of thousands?

ok what about this,

You have to remember this, it was in Japan not too long ago it was all across the news,

If god is supposed to protect the innocent and not punish them, then why did all this happen, i mean surely man couldnt have caused all those earthquakes, surely not all of those killed were terrible people there had to be a few innocent ones in there that didnt deserve to die.

Why does he let this happen if there truely is an all powerful god?

My answer is simple, there is no god or if there is he is nothing like we think he is, he may aswell be Cthulu.

Or maybe he wasnt responsible for those earhtquakes and such maybe he just didnt notice the tremors and couldnt stop them because he was too busy giving Aids to babys in africa and causing drought?

sonofsmeagle

dont mess with the hoff

That's not proof, mate. Maybe you should google the definition of the word. It's a good argument, but one could easily refute it by saying "those are all the results of the free choice He gives us all" or whatnot. You'll need something better than an Atheist 101 argument if you're going to run around crying "proof".

Go fap to Gina Carano, TC.Teenaged

You forgot to add Mao Zeedong to that list seeing as he killed inbetween 70 and 100 million.

Im not really religious but God isn't necessarily suppose to prevent bad things from happening or make sure good things happen. God can't control people, he can influence people or allow good things to happen .... although he does very rarely step in and do things. If God could control people, he would just make everyone believe in him. The basic explanation would be that its the work of the Devil/demons.Nonstop-Madness

[QUOTE="TheFlush"]

:D

chaoscougar1

You can't prove that something doesn't exist just like you can't prove that there isn't an invisible teapot in Jupiter's orbit. So no, that argument isn't proof. There are only reasons to not believe in God, and this reason is quite weak. Heisenderp

That's the analogy you use? An invisible teapot in Jupiter's orbit? Oh good God...

[QUOTE="Heisenderp"]You can't prove that something doesn't exist just like you can't prove that there isn't an invisible teapot in Jupiter's orbit. So no, that argument isn't proof. There are only reasons to not believe in God, and this reason is quite weak. chaoscougar1

That's the analogy you use? An invisible teapot in Jupiter's orbit? Oh good God...

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"]

[QUOTE="Heisenderp"]You can't prove that something doesn't exist just like you can't prove that there isn't an invisible teapot in Jupiter's orbit. So no, that argument isn't proof. There are only reasons to not believe in God, and this reason is quite weak. Heisenderp

That's the analogy you use? An invisible teapot in Jupiter's orbit? Oh good God...

TC, to your OP --- There are no "innoncent" deaths - since, "...all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)Thuganomic05

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]TC, to your OP --- There are no "innoncent" deaths - since, "...all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)Person0

The death of a child is not a punishment from God. God is not cruel. In fact God is not even in the equation. Babies die for the same reasons that children and adults do. Something went wrong with their bodies. Perhaps it is an immunity disorder, a birth defect, or any number of other ailments or insufficiencies. Sometimes we just don't know. This is not an easy thing to understand or accept because people want to have reasons for why things happen. Sometimes the reason is: no reason.

[QUOTE="Person0"]

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]TC, to your OP --- There are no "innoncent" deaths - since, "...all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)Thuganomic05

The death of a child is not a punishment from God. God is not cruel. In fact God is not even in the equation. Babies die for the same reasons that children and adults do. Something went wrong with their bodies. Perhaps it is an immunity disorder, a birth defect, or any number of other ailments or insufficiencies. Sometimes we just don't know. This is not an easy thing to understand or accept because people want to have reasons for why things happen. Sometimes the reason is: no reason.

[QUOTE="Person0"]

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]TC, to your OP --- There are no "innoncent" deaths - since, "...all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)Thuganomic05

The death of a child is not a punishment from God. God is not cruel. In fact God is not even in the equation. Babies die for the same reasons that children and adults do. Something went wrong with their bodies. Perhaps it is an immunity disorder, a birth defect, or any number of other ailments or insufficiencies. Sometimes we just don't know. This is not an easy thing to understand or accept because people want to have reasons for why things happen. Sometimes the reason is: no reason.

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

[QUOTE="Person0"] So a baby thats alive for 1 minute has sinned and is going to hell? That god seems pretty messed up.

chaoscougar1

The death of a child is not a punishment from God. God is not cruel. In fact God is not even in the equation. Babies die for the same reasons that children and adults do. Something went wrong with their bodies. Perhaps it is an immunity disorder, a birth defect, or any number of other ailments or insufficiencies. Sometimes we just don't know. This is not an easy thing to understand or accept because people want to have reasons for why things happen. Sometimes the reason is: no reason.

[QUOTE="Person0"]

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]TC, to your OP --- There are no "innoncent" deaths - since, "...all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)Thuganomic05

The death of a child is not a punishment from God. God is not cruel. In fact God is not even in the equation. Babies die for the same reasons that children and adults do. Something went wrong with their bodies. Perhaps it is an immunity disorder, a birth defect, or any number of other ailments or insufficiencies. Sometimes we just don't know. This is not an easy thing to understand or accept because people want to have reasons for why things happen. Sometimes the reason is: no reason.

If i saw someone dying and had it in my power to save them what type of person would i be to refuse?

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

The death of a child is not a punishment from God. God is not cruel. In fact God is not even in the equation. Babies die for the same reasons that children and adults do. Something went wrong with their bodies. Perhaps it is an immunity disorder, a birth defect, or any number of other ailments or insufficiencies. Sometimes we just don't know. This is not an easy thing to understand or accept because people want to have reasons for why things happen. Sometimes the reason is: no reason.

Thuganomic05

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

[QUOTE="Person0"] So a baby thats alive for 1 minute has sinned and is going to hell? That god seems pretty messed up.

Person0

The death of a child is not a punishment from God. God is not cruel. In fact God is not even in the equation. Babies die for the same reasons that children and adults do. Something went wrong with their bodies. Perhaps it is an immunity disorder, a birth defect, or any number of other ailments or insufficiencies. Sometimes we just don't know. This is not an easy thing to understand or accept because people want to have reasons for why things happen. Sometimes the reason is: no reason.

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"] And that relates to the bible verse you quoted, how?Person0

[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

The death of a child is not a punishment from God. God is not cruel. In fact God is not even in the equation. Babies die for the same reasons that children and adults do. Something went wrong with their bodies. Perhaps it is an immunity disorder, a birth defect, or any number of other ailments or insufficiencies. Sometimes we just don't know. This is not an easy thing to understand or accept because people want to have reasons for why things happen. Sometimes the reason is: no reason.

Thuganomic05

But is God not omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent?

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

[QUOTE="Person0"] But God allowed it to die and since it never had a chance to do anything then it would have to go to hell right? So God gets rid of free choice and forces a person to go to hell?mattisgod01

But is God not omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent?

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

[QUOTE="Person0"] So a baby thats alive for 1 minute has sinned and is going to hell? That god seems pretty messed up.

mattisgod01

The death of a child is not a punishment from God. God is not cruel. In fact God is not even in the equation. Babies die for the same reasons that children and adults do. Something went wrong with their bodies. Perhaps it is an immunity disorder, a birth defect, or any number of other ailments or insufficiencies. Sometimes we just don't know. This is not an easy thing to understand or accept because people want to have reasons for why things happen. Sometimes the reason is: no reason.

If i saw someone dying and had it in my power to save them what type of person would i be to refuse?

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"] God allowed it to die? That's free will - God doesn't control free will. If it's a child or someone who is mentally incapable of knowing right from wrong than they aren't punished because, obviously they don't know what sinning is... they're children. So they go to Heaven... or "paradise" as some denominations preach.

Thuganomic05

But is God not omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent?

God created man knowing every detail that would follow and did so in such a way as to allow evil and suffering, That makes him malevolent.

You can't argue for a God with omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence while also claiming he gave us free will as he created us knowing exaclty what would happen. If i sin and go to hell he would have known that before i existed yet he allowed me to exist. Why?

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

The death of a child is not a punishment from God. God is not cruel. In fact God is not even in the equation. Babies die for the same reasons that children and adults do. Something went wrong with their bodies. Perhaps it is an immunity disorder, a birth defect, or any number of other ailments or insufficiencies. Sometimes we just don't know. This is not an easy thing to understand or accept because people want to have reasons for why things happen. Sometimes the reason is: no reason.

Thuganomic05

If i saw someone dying and had it in my power to save them what type of person would i be to refuse?

Does God not have the power to prevent that? Why would he choose an option of pain and suffering?

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

But is God not omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent?

mattisgod01

God created man knowing every detail that would follow and did so in such a way as to allow evil and suffering, That makes him malevolent.

You can't argue for a God with omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence while also claiming he gave us free will as he created us knowing exaclty what would happen. If i sin and go to hell he would have known that before i existed yet he allowed me to exist. Why?

To give you life... why question your existence? To give you a chance. To LET you live in His world... why else?

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

The death of a child is not a punishment from God. God is not cruel. In fact God is not even in the equation. Babies die for the same reasons that children and adults do. Something went wrong with their bodies. Perhaps it is an immunity disorder, a birth defect, or any number of other ailments or insufficiencies. Sometimes we just don't know. This is not an easy thing to understand or accept because people want to have reasons for why things happen. Sometimes the reason is: no reason.

Thuganomic05

If i saw someone dying and had it in my power to save them what type of person would i be to refuse?

[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

The death of a child is not a punishment from God. God is not cruel. In fact God is not even in the equation. Babies die for the same reasons that children and adults do. Something went wrong with their bodies. Perhaps it is an immunity disorder, a birth defect, or any number of other ailments or insufficiencies. Sometimes we just don't know. This is not an easy thing to understand or accept because people want to have reasons for why things happen. Sometimes the reason is: no reason.

Thuganomic05

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"] Sure he is - but that doesn't mean he will interfere with free will... Jesus was nailed to a cross... God did nothing because it was free will.

Thuganomic05

God created man knowing every detail that would follow and did so in such a way as to allow evil and suffering, That makes him malevolent.

You can't argue for a God with omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence while also claiming he gave us free will as he created us knowing exaclty what would happen. If i sin and go to hell he would have known that before i existed yet he allowed me to exist. Why?

To give you life... why question your existence? To give you a chance. To LET you live in His world... why else?

While at the same time creating a realm of eternal suffering that i would then be sent?

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

If i saw someone dying and had it in my power to save them what type of person would i be to refuse?

mattisgod01

Does God not have the power to prevent that? Why would he choose an option of pain and suffering?

Life is a gift from God.. nothing less. You live your life devoting it to him so that you can live eternally in Heaven. Why would you want to live somewhere like a utopia? Where life is a breeze and there are no ups or downs and everything is just there for you? It's part of life.

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"] So just keep saving people from death? How would our world be then? There would be NOTHING - the population would destroy all our resources and then we'd be living in everlasting peril.

Thuganomic05

Does God not have the power to prevent that? Why would he choose an option of pain and suffering?

Life is a gift from God.. nothing less. You live your life devoting it to him so that you can live eternally in Heaven. Why would you want to live somewhere like a utopia? Where life is a breeze and there are no ups or downs and everything is just there for you? It's part of life.

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

If i saw someone dying and had it in my power to save them what type of person would i be to refuse?

Person0

Who's to say he hasn't created unlimited resources? Are you basing that statement off of our world's resources? As if we know what's beyond Earth?

[QUOTE="Thuganomic05"]

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

Does God not have the power to prevent that? Why would he choose an option of pain and suffering?

Person0

Life is a gift from God.. nothing less. You live your life devoting it to him so that you can live eternally in Heaven. Why would you want to live somewhere like a utopia? Where life is a breeze and there are no ups or downs and everything is just there for you? It's part of life.

Yes, religion wise. Earth is not a utopia because Adam and Eve sinned. It's in like the first 10 pages of the Bible.

[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="Thuganomic05"] So just keep saving people from death? How would our world be then? There would be NOTHING - the population would destroy all our resources and then we'd be living in everlasting peril.

Thuganomic05

Who's to say he hasn't created unlimited resources? Are you basing that statement off of our world's resources? As if we know what's beyond Earth?