Question to those who demand proof of God before believing

From what I can tell, non-believers need to hear from God Himself.

Evidence, and not speculation.

It's obvious why there hasn't been any.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]I caught my parents in a lie when i they lifted my pillow.

ristactionjakso

Sorry, but just because your parents lied to you does not prove that the Tooth Fairy isn't real.

Now, I have my own beliefs on why I believe in Jesus. Can you disprove God's existance?

It's actually a decent analogy, god is like the tooth fairy, but unlike the toothfairy/santa, there was no athoritative figure to tell people he's not real.

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Sorry, but just because your parents lied to you does not prove that the Tooth Fairy isn't real.

CaveJohnson1

Now, I have my own beliefs on why I believe in Jesus. Can you disprove God's existance?

It's actually a decent analogy, god is like the tooth fairy, but unlike the toothfairy/santa, there was no athoritative figure to tell people he's not real.

What I need evidence for is to prove that he exists. You prove that, I'll believe.

[QUOTE="CaveJohnson1"]

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]ya it does. it would have been the tooth fairy i saw instaed of my parents. but you use a bad analogy. the tooth fairy is a child's story. Bible's word is true. Jesus was born on earth, and performed miracles. it isn't a child's story.

Now, I have my own beliefs on why I believe in Jesus. Can you disprove God's existance?

ristactionjakso

It's actually a decent analogy, god is like the tooth fairy, but unlike the toothfairy/santa, there was no athoritative figure to tell people he's not real.

and faith is a euphemism for blind belief.

Just being shown any part of its power and divinity. Until then, God never existed. In addition, I have never rejected God, because I have never encountered God.

I'm an atheist but I was raised as a Christan. It's not really the fact that we can't prove that god exists that makes me an atheist. We also can't prove that god doesn't exist either so I find it funny when other atheists pull that card. So I don't demand any proof of god.

I'm an atheist because religion in general sounds like a fairy tale to me. A fairy tale that many of us are raised to believe and we end up not knowing anything else. When it comes to Christianity I'm not very keen on following a 2000 year old book that has most likely been altered a LOT from the original texts by the Romans and what not. We live in such a little fragment of humanity, how do you KNOW the bible is true and so is you're god?

Pikdum

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]

maybe if god came down from the heavens and smited some people and said "do you believe in my now?" i would believe in him.

NuclearNerd

"no offence to religious people" If god does exist then how can one god be totally against violence and then some religious people kill themselves and blow others up and then say their god allowed it. How is that fair or possiblepepsisafc

[QUOTE="Flavorysoup"]

[QUOTE="RyviusARC"] The bible is not the word of god either. Did you know how the bible was even made? Or is it your idea that god came down from heaven and presented the people a fully made book? In fact Christianity had no bible of their own when the religion started. Parents would pass down stories to their children and those children would pass down the stories to their children. Eventually a bunch of people from their church council voted on what writings would go into the bible and what would be left out. Even after the book was put together the large majority of the people could not read. So they went to a church to be read the bible by a single person and had to fully trust what he said was actually written. As time went by there were many revisions to the bible with things cut out or redefined. . So you are telling me you would believe the outrageous claims in a book with that kind of history?Johnny_Rock

Yes, and one of the revisions was the new testimate. They scratched the old one because it was very discriminatory and repulsive. The new one is alot more friendly.

Well, at least you didn't call it the new testicle. It's testament, mate. :)

sorry, I was pretty tired, just woke up and felt like knocking some sense into people. :)

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]I caught my parents in a lie when i they lifted my pillow.

ristactionjakso

Sorry, but just because your parents lied to you does not prove that the Tooth Fairy isn't real.

Now, I have my own beliefs on why I believe in Jesus. Can you disprove God's existance?

- No, that does not disprove the Tooth Fairy. That only proves that your parents tried to deceive you. Me though, I never caught my parents in the act, therefore I have no reason to believe that they were deceitful to me. So this must prove that the Tooth Fairy is real.

- How do you know that the Bible's word is true? Because the Bible says it's true?

- The analogy is perfectly valid. Both are based on stories.

- The burden isn't on me to disprove God's existance. The burden of proof falls on the one making a claim, not on the one doubting the claim.

Wether he does or doesn't exist, it makes no difference in the way I see religion.

It's actually quite simple, because religious views are learned it is not possible that God makes a difference between different religious views for the sole reason that people can't control where they grow up and what they are taught. Furtheremore if he does exist, he would without doubt dissaprove of those who portray other religious views as bad. Their intent to follow the will of god is the same, their perception of the will of god is simpy different.

Wether he does or doesn't exist, it makes no difference in the way I see religion.

It's actually quite simple, because religious views are learned it is not possible that God makes a difference between different religious views for the sole reason that people can't control where they grow up and what they are taught. Furtheremore if he does exist, he would without doubt dissaprove of those who portray other religious views as bad. Their intent to follow the will of god is the same, their perception of the will of god is simpy different.

rastotm

[QUOTE="pepsisafc"]"no offence to religious people" If god does exist then how can one god be totally against violence and then some religious people kill themselves and blow others up and then say their god allowed it. How is that fair or possibleultimameteora

If God is omnipresent, existing everywhere at one time, and is also beyond comprehension of humans kind of like infinity, then how WOULD YOU have proof? Therefore, logically, beyond just faith, no one on this earth can ever actually prove or disprove God. And if God is everywhere, then you see God no matter what also. This topic will never die and no one will convince the entire other side of their way.

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

Wether he does or doesn't exist, it makes no difference in the way I see religion.

It's actually quite simple, because religious views are learned it is not possible that God makes a difference between different religious views for the sole reason that people can't control where they grow up and what they are taught. Furtheremore if he does exist, he would without doubt dissaprove of those who portray other religious views as bad. Their intent to follow the will of god is the same, their perception of the will of god is simpy different.

Darkainious

Thanks, that awnsers some questions/

Yet, another question out of curiousity, on what grounds do you determine that a religion is pure, not influenced by the devil, or unpure, influenced by the devil?
Furtheremore, what makes a person evil in the eyes of god? Does he condem people for following the ways of the devil, while these people had faith in god and actually believed that they were following gods will.

Simply said, my problem isn't the lack of proof that god exists, it's the fact that choice in religion exists.

*facepalm* you're not supposed to have evidence. It's based on faith...Solid_Snake325

I tend to demand proof before believing in something as big as god. It's just evident as hell to me that one doesn't exist. Why we are here can be explained without a god, there is no evidence for a god so why should I believe in god? It's not like I'm insanely ignorant about it and what god are you refering to by the way? Just a god? the christian god? the Muslim god? I mean how are you so sure your god is the correct one? The only difference is atheists take it one step further by not believing in any of the gods.

The proof required would be very simple, all it would take is for god to come and say hello and show himself.

XileLord

I can tell you know little about religions, most people don't anyway...but let me explain some things for you because i've studied all the major religions in school...and I think I know what i'm talking about...

First off christianity and Islam are nearly identical in there core beliefs, the christian god and the muslim god are the same god.Muslims believe that jesus was a prophet sent by god but that he wasn't god they also believe in Noah,Adam.. Etc and that Mohammed was the final prophet. I don't feel like getting into the details but ya...

and then theres Hinduism and Budhism which are also similar in there beliefs....and theres also Aboriginal Spirituality which is in someways sort of like Hinduis and Budhism.

But I really don't feel like explaining each religion just study them yourself and you will begin to realize that they are all very much the same, it will probably scare you and make you question things a little more about life.

I can tell you know little about religions, most people don't anyway...but let me explain some things for you because i've studied all the major religions in school...and I think I know what i'm talking about...

and then theres Hinduism and Budhism which are also similar in there beliefs....

Vickman178

They're actually quite different.

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

Wether he does or doesn't exist, it makes no difference in the way I see religion.

It's actually quite simple, because religious views are learned it is not possible that God makes a difference between different religious views for the sole reason that people can't control where they grow up and what they are taught. Furtheremore if he does exist, he would without doubt dissaprove of those who portray other religious views as bad. Their intent to follow the will of god is the same, their perception of the will of god is simpy different.

Darkainious

okay, why doesn't that apply to your belief?

People used to have "proof" of the existence of God.

This proof included:

How do you explain the sun rising in the morning?

Why do volcanoes erupt?

Why does the ground shake violently?

Why did my neighbor down the street experience a miracle?

etc. etc.

Christianity didn't used to be this vague "God can't interfere because that would ruin free will" and "God lives outside our realm of existence" nonsense. As science expands, God shrinks. I'm gonna bet my money on the winning side.

People used to have "proof" of the existence of God.

This proof included:

How do you explain the sun rising in the morning?

Why do volcanoes erupt?

Why does the ground shake violently?

Why did my neighbor down the street experience a miracle?

etc. etc.

Christianity didn't used to be this vague "God can't interfere because that would ruin free will" and "God lives outside our realm of existence" nonsense. As science expands, God shrinks. I'm gonna bet my money on the winning side.

cheezisgoooood

[QUOTE="cheezisgoooood"]

People used to have "proof" of the existence of God.

This proof included:

How do you explain the sun rising in the morning?

Why do volcanoes erupt?

Why does the ground shake violently?

Why did my neighbor down the street experience a miracle?

etc. etc.

Christianity didn't used to be this vague "God can't interfere because that would ruin free will" and "God lives outside our realm of existence" nonsense. As science expands, God shrinks. I'm gonna bet my money on the winning side.

alexside1

As Francis Collins, who was one of the head researchers of the Human Genome Project, said "Science and religion ask two different sets of questions. Religions asks "why?", science asks "how?"." (At least I think that was Francis. I hope I'm not misattributing that to him.)

While I'm not really a believer, I don't think that science and religion necessarily need conflict with each other. Clearly we know now that a thunderstorm or earthquake isn't God's wrath , but rather the way the Earth functions. Still, science doesn't preclude God.

I think such proofs are to be found in the realm of metaphysics rather through some scientifical methodology. By pertaining to such realm, it is obvious that with our current stance on what is science, it cannot be proven or disproven by science, since it would defy it's definition.

Most of the medieval philosophy was an attempt to reach that proof through rational methods, and to their credit, they created a very original form of thinking - rather than the repetition of the old classical schools that marked the Roman era. However there are really no real synthesis to be found in philosophy and therefore no truly valid conclusion to such matter.

Religious people are right when they seperate what is faith from scientifical explanation, one being a revealed truth and the other being a mere prelude to any real knowledge, a state of ignorance. Such boundries keeps people from falling into vulgar forms of gnosticism, and overall of thinking.

[QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="cheezisgoooood"]

People used to have "proof" of the existence of God.

This proof included:

How do you explain the sun rising in the morning?

Why do volcanoes erupt?

Why does the ground shake violently?

Why did my neighbor down the street experience a miracle?

etc. etc.

Christianity didn't used to be this vague "God can't interfere because that would ruin free will" and "God lives outside our realm of existence" nonsense. As science expands, God shrinks. I'm gonna bet my money on the winning side.

worlock77

As Francis Collins, who was one of the head researchers of the Human Genome Project, said "Science and religion ask two different sets of questions. Religions asks "why?", science asks "how?"." (At least I think that was Francis. I hope I'm not misattributing that to him.)

While I'm not really a believer, I don't think that science and religion necessarily need conflict with each other. Clearly we know now that a thunderstorm or earthquake isn't God's wrath , but rather the way the Earth functions. Still, science doesn't preclude God.

Um... if God 'proved' his existence, there'd be no need to 'believe', would there?

Um... if God 'proved' his existence, there'd be no need to 'believe', would there?

raynimrod

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="alexside1"] Science is agnostic not atheistic.alexside1

As Francis Collins, who was one of the head researchers of the Human Genome Project, said "Science and religion ask two different sets of questions. Religions asks "why?", science asks "how?"." (At least I think that was Francis. I hope I'm not misattributing that to him.)

While I'm not really a believer, I don't think that science and religion necessarily need conflict with each other. Clearly we know now that a thunderstorm or earthquake isn't God's wrath , but rather the way the Earth functions. Still, science doesn't preclude God.

I'm adding to what you were saying, not arguing with you.

Um... if God 'proved' his existence, there'd be no need to 'believe', would there?

raynimrod

*facepalm* you're not supposed to have evidence. It's based on faith...Solid_Snake325

Supposed to have faith? Why would god change his stance like that?

Back in the old days according to the bible we had burning bushes, multipling fishes, the curing of lepers the destruction of cities, people turning into salt. On the off chance people still didn't have faith we also had a global flood (possibly).

Animals dont have a god, they are smarter than that.

The devil tends to lurk around me and feed off my aura.

Of course God exist, you just can't see it. It's a energy that is incomprehensible.

Now for the Bible and all that history stuff, it's interpreted and written by man. Ignorance caused conflicts, non-believers decided to stay close-minded and ignorant.

I will start believing in god when he finally comes down on earth and proves himself by curing cancer and aids,ending world hunger etc.

Animals dont have a god, they are smarter than that.

BlackHawk340

All too true.

[QUOTE="LinuxGoose"]Well I'm sure an all powerful god could come up with a way to prove his existence instead of playing this faith game which is going to send billions of people to hell... cee1gee

This reminds me of statistics. why are people so confortable about the existence of random? Nothing is random. A coin toss can be perfectly predicted by the way it is tossed. so a persons life can be perfectly predicted by the past actions the individual made.playmynutz

So I throw a coin into the air (or flick it off my thumb,) and it spins an unknown number of times in the air. How can I prefectly predict how it will land?

[QUOTE="playmynutz"]This reminds me of statistics. why are people so confortable about the existence of random? Nothing is random. A coin toss can be perfectly predicted by the way it is tossed. so a persons life can be perfectly predicted by the past actions the individual made.BuryMe

So I throw a coin into the air (or flick it off my thumb,) and it spins an unknown number of times in the air. How can I prefectly predict how it will land?

yea, if you know how much force you are putting on the coin you can do it. It's very hard, but possible. Here I shall try to explain.

When you flip a coin and control the force you flicked it with you can determine how many times it will spin while in the air. You can measure the distance it travels up and down in coordination with the ammount of spins while airborn and you can determine at which angle the coin will make contact with the ground.

And he is right, nothing is random, just less predictable. Nothing is completely unpredictable, the level of difficulty in determining it's measure just increases.

[QUOTE="raynimrod"]

Um... if God 'proved' his existence, there'd be no need to 'believe', would there?

Nibroc420

I don't believe apples exist... I know they exist.

And yes, if we were talking about the belief in other mythical entities such as those you mentioned, you'd be right in saying there's no need to believe they exist if their existance is proven.

So, thank you for making my point I guess.