"We donot need God for morals"

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Vagal_Fiddle_6

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#1 Vagal_Fiddle_6
Member since 2009 • 219 Posts

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#2 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
Because there are immoral people in the world?
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#3 FastNorwegian
Member since 2009 • 859 Posts

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

Vagal_Fiddle_6
You are quite the religious debator :D. Good question. I love how ambitious you are, despite our difference of beliefs. Bravo.
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tzar3

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#4 tzar3
Member since 2006 • 12393 Posts

Right, we dont. Everyone just goes along with what they think is right and wrong and such. Some people need god for morals though.

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Funky_Llama

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#5 Funky_Llama
Member since 2006 • 18428 Posts

Because some people are immoral? :|

EDIT: Damn you, Sun_Tzu :x

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cousin_eddy

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#6 cousin_eddy
Member since 2004 • 74681 Posts
Because there are immoral people in the world?-Sun_Tzu-
this
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MrPraline

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#7 MrPraline
Member since 2008 • 21351 Posts

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

Vagal_Fiddle_6
Are all criminals atheist?
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zakkro

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#8 zakkro
Member since 2004 • 48823 Posts
Because there are immoral people in the world?-Sun_Tzu-
This
Because some people are immoral? :|Funky_Llama
and that.
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deactivated-60678a6f9e4d4

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#9 deactivated-60678a6f9e4d4
Member since 2007 • 10077 Posts

Most of our basic laws are based around religious morals. I'm an atheist, but I recognize that a significant benefit of religion is that it teaches morals (in some cases).

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#10 deactivated-60678a6f9e4d4
Member since 2007 • 10077 Posts

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

MrPraline

Are all criminals atheist?

Ha, ever heard of 9/11?

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Vagal_Fiddle_6

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#11 Vagal_Fiddle_6
Member since 2009 • 219 Posts

Because there are immoral people in the world?-Sun_Tzu-
And yet we dont need God for morals?

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#12 Papitar
Member since 2008 • 2377 Posts

Because there are immoral people and people with different values.

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#13 zakkro
Member since 2004 • 48823 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Because there are immoral people in the world?Vagal_Fiddle_6

And yet we dont need God for morals?

Ever stop and wonder if... you know... we made our morals based on what benefits society as a whole?
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#15 Famiking
Member since 2009 • 4879 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Because there are immoral people in the world?Vagal_Fiddle_6

And yet we dont need God for morals?

No not really. What makes a person who doesn't believe in god any less moral?
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#16 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Because there are immoral people in the world?Vagal_Fiddle_6

And yet we dont need God for morals?

Nope. For example, if it weren't illegal to murder people I still wouldn't murder someone, in the same manner that if I wouldn't go to hell if I murdered someone I still wouldn't murder someone. I don't murder people because I find it to be sickening, not because I am afraid of life in prison/capital punishment or an eternity in hell.

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#17 Funky_Llama
Member since 2006 • 18428 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Because there are immoral people in the world?Vagal_Fiddle_6

And yet we dont need God for morals?

Correct, we don't. Do you actually intend to get to a point?

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#18 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
Of course not, we had these types of morals before major religions like Christianity existed.. Much of the teachings of Christianity is infact based off of the ideas and theories by Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle.. The Greeks afterall was able to create a society with some morals (though they are of course outdated).. And their gods were very human in being jealous, spiteful, and full of wrath.. Furthermore I would like to say that Religious teachings are molded by the society often times, not the other way around.
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#19 MrPraline
Member since 2008 • 21351 Posts

[QUOTE="MrPraline"][QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

bangell99

Are all criminals atheist?

Ha, ever heard of 9/11?

I guess you misunderstood. The OP would only make sense if all criminals are atheist (the ones saying we don't need God for morals).
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needled24-7

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#20 needled24-7
Member since 2007 • 15902 Posts

[QUOTE="MrPraline"][QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

Vagal_Fiddle_6

Are all criminals atheist?

Yes I am pretty sure.

Your whole argument is now invalid.

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Ingenemployee

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#21 Ingenemployee
Member since 2007 • 2307 Posts

[QUOTE="MrPraline"][QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

Vagal_Fiddle_6

Are all criminals atheist?

Yes I am pretty sure.

The majority of criminals currently being held in prison believe in god, I dont know the presentage but it is less than 10% atheist.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#22 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Because there are immoral people in the world?Vagal_Fiddle_6

And yet we dont need God for morals?

What does god have anything to do with this? Alot of things are pretty common sense.. Such as murder.. Why? Because if we didn't have laws and protections against it, we would feel unsafe with our nieghbors..
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#23 supa_badman
Member since 2008 • 16714 Posts

[QUOTE="MrPraline"][QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

Vagal_Fiddle_6

Are all criminals atheist?

Yes I am pretty sure.

uhmmm... :|
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#24 SpaceMoose
Member since 2004 • 10789 Posts
So what you're saying is that someone should pretend to believe in something even if they don't actually believe in it because there would be utility in it if everyone genuinely did believe in it? I don't follow. Deliberate self-deception is a pretty difficult trick to pull off.
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#25 Vagal_Fiddle_6
Member since 2009 • 219 Posts

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Because there are immoral people in the world?-Sun_Tzu-

And yet we dont need God for morals?

Nope. For example, if it weren't illegal to murder people I still wouldn't murder someone, in the same manner that if I wouldn't go to hell if I murdered someone I still wouldn't murder someone. I don't murder people because I find it to be sickening, not because I am afraid of life in prison/capital punishment or an eternity in hell.

What about someone who doesnt have a problem with let's say raping a women? He should just go-on with it and do it with a well planned move that would save him from the police?

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#26 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="MrPraline"][QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

Vagal_Fiddle_6

Are all criminals atheist?

Yes I am pretty sure.

:lol:

[spoiler] No:| [/spoiler]

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Funky_Llama

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#27 Funky_Llama
Member since 2006 • 18428 Posts

[QUOTE="MrPraline"][QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

Vagal_Fiddle_6

Are all criminals atheist?

Yes I am pretty sure.

Thread can end now.
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MrPraline

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#28 MrPraline
Member since 2008 • 21351 Posts

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

[QUOTE="MrPraline"] Are all criminals atheist?needled24-7

Yes I am pretty sure.

Your whole argument is now invalid.

No kidding. :D
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#29 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Because there are immoral people in the world?Vagal_Fiddle_6

And yet we dont need God for morals?

Nope.
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Funky_Llama

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#30 Funky_Llama
Member since 2006 • 18428 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]And yet we dont need God for morals?

Vagal_Fiddle_6

Nope. For example, if it weren't illegal to murder people I still wouldn't murder someone, in the same manner that if I wouldn't go to hell if I murdered someone I still wouldn't murder someone. I don't murder people because I find it to be sickening, not because I am afraid of life in prison/capital punishment or an eternity in hell.

What about someone who doesnt have a problem with let's say raping a women? He should just go-on with it and do it with a well planned move that would save him from the police?

No, becuase it would be immoral.
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#31 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="MrPraline"][QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

Vagal_Fiddle_6

Are all criminals atheist?

Yes I am pretty sure.

Which is completely nieve and ridiculous.. Only a few hundred years ago, the religious outlook in life was the ONLY outlook..

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Dr_Brocoli

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#32 Dr_Brocoli
Member since 2007 • 3724 Posts
Your borken logic is astonishing! I never looked at it that way before, maybe thats why its broken? If the sky is blue, then space is obviously blue right? IF i can roll a ball across the ground and it stops, it must mean the world is flat right? Do Chrisitians still think the world is flat?
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Famiking

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#35 Famiking
Member since 2009 • 4879 Posts
This thread blew up, 5 replies a minute etc.
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#36 Vagal_Fiddle_6
Member since 2009 • 219 Posts

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

[QUOTE="MrPraline"] Are all criminals atheist?Ingenemployee

Yes I am pretty sure.

TH emajority of criminals currently being held in prison believe in god, I dont know the presentage but it is less than 10% atheist.

They only pretend to believe in God. In their hearts their belief is VERY weak or else they would have never done such crimes.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#37 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Nope. For example, if it weren't illegal to murder people I still wouldn't murder someone, in the same manner that if I wouldn't go to hell if I murdered someone I still wouldn't murder someone. I don't murder people because I find it to be sickening, not because I am afraid of life in prison/capital punishment or an eternity in hell.

-Sun_Tzu-

What about someone who doesnt have a problem with let's say raping a women? He should just go-on with it and do it with a well planned move that would save him from the police?

In that scenario then there SHOULD be eternal punishment, but that doesn't mean that there IS eternal punishment.

Who are we to make such judgements on a person? Our justice system is about keeping order and harmony.. Not retribution.

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#38 Trelaf_TheWise
Member since 2008 • 651 Posts

[QUOTE="MrPraline"][QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

Vagal_Fiddle_6

Are all criminals atheist?

Yes I am pretty sure.

Joke thread FTW

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Teenaged

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#39 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

Because nothing is perfect. And society is not perfect. One of society's main causes is the harmonic co-existence of people, through education and societal forms (family etc etc - excuse my terminology, I dont which words are more suitable).

But as it is expectable in my opinion those forms are not perfect themselves, thus not all people are raised morally and/or the forms in which they were raised failed to make sure of that. This is where the law comes as a last "defense", not so much to educate, but to protect the rest from the "immorals" who had the bad luck in not being raised morally.

Also the law is a more "final"/strict guideline, because it has to ensure peace among thousands of people.

We do not need God for morals, because basically every moral guideline proposed by a religion may be depicted as if it is dictated by a god, but essentially its also common sense thinking in most cases. Now to the question that arises ("if it is common sense then why do people commit crimes") : Criminals do know that what they do is wrong thus it is obvious that they act on impulsive thinking and emotions and not logic.

PS: In my opinion

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#40 Vagal_Fiddle_6
Member since 2009 • 219 Posts

So what you're saying is that someone should pretend to believe in something even if they don't actually believe in it because there would be utility in it if everyone genuinely did believe in it? I don't follow. Deliberate self-deception is a pretty difficult trick to pull off. SpaceMoose
Nop that was not the point.

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#41 Funky_Llama
Member since 2006 • 18428 Posts

[QUOTE="Ingenemployee"]

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]Yes I am pretty sure.

Vagal_Fiddle_6

TH emajority of criminals currently being held in prison believe in god, I dont know the presentage but it is less than 10% atheist.

They only pretend to believe in God. In their hearts their belief is VERY weak or else they would have never done such crimes.

Prove it.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#42 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="Ingenemployee"]

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]Yes I am pretty sure.

Vagal_Fiddle_6

TH emajority of criminals currently being held in prison believe in god, I dont know the presentage but it is less than 10% atheist.

They only pretend to believe in God. In their hearts their belief is VERY weak or else they would have never done such crimes.

Some of the greatest religious leaders through out history have committed some of the greatest crimes in the name of fanaticism to their god..

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Funky_Llama

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#43 Funky_Llama
Member since 2006 • 18428 Posts

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

[QUOTE="MrPraline"] Are all criminals atheist?Trelaf_TheWise

Yes I am pretty sure.

Joke thread FTW

If only :(
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clembo1990

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#44 clembo1990
Member since 2005 • 9976 Posts
Is that your arguement? Well God is not to law as to what morals are criminality. I have morals but no God, for example. Fail.
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#45 Trelaf_TheWise
Member since 2008 • 651 Posts

[QUOTE="Ingenemployee"]

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]Yes I am pretty sure.

Vagal_Fiddle_6

TH emajority of criminals currently being held in prison believe in god, I dont know the presentage but it is less than 10% atheist.

They only pretend to believe in God. In their hearts their belief is VERY weak or else they would have never done such crimes.

it doesn't work that way sunshine. I bet those hijackers couldn't wait to meet Allah

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#46 Vashn
Member since 2008 • 1416 Posts

[QUOTE="MrPraline"][QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

Why do you then need law for preventing crime?

Vagal_Fiddle_6

Are all criminals atheist?

Yes I am pretty sure.

stopped reading here.

also made this for you.

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#47 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

Is that your arguement? Well God is not to law as to what morals are criminality. I have morals but no God, for example. Fail.clembo1990

No kidding, only less than 200 years ago was slavery considered morally acceptable, men like Calhoun (spelling?) even suggested that the Bible justified that it was morally correct.

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#48 Vagal_Fiddle_6
Member since 2009 • 219 Posts

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Nope. For example, if it weren't illegal to murder people I still wouldn't murder someone, in the same manner that if I wouldn't go to hell if I murdered someone I still wouldn't murder someone. I don't murder people because I find it to be sickening, not because I am afraid of life in prison/capital punishment or an eternity in hell.

Funky_Llama

What about someone who doesnt have a problem with let's say raping a women? He should just go-on with it and do it with a well planned move that would save him from the police?

No, becuase it would be immoral.

Why is it? What is "immoral"? He just looks at the women as a beautifully crafted skin and he wants to enjoy it, why not?

Let's say hez "very" ugly, now why are the good looking guys with the beautiful gilrs, why cant he enjoy them? Why should he not if he can? Why is it ok for people to use their beauty to get in a girl's pants but not power?

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TheFlush

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#49 TheFlush
Member since 2002 • 5965 Posts

I find some of god's morals to be immoral.

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#50 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="Vagal_Fiddle_6"]And yet we dont need God for morals?

Vagal_Fiddle_6

Nope. For example, if it weren't illegal to murder people I still wouldn't murder someone, in the same manner that if I wouldn't go to hell if I murdered someone I still wouldn't murder someone. I don't murder people because I find it to be sickening, not because I am afraid of life in prison/capital punishment or an eternity in hell.

What about someone who doesnt have a problem with let's say raping a women? He should just go-on with it and do it with a well planned move that would save him from the police?

No he should not. That would be immoral.