"Why Does A Loving God Send People To Hell?" - video

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

I see what you're saying. But then again, isn't life a learning experience in itself? The whole point of life, from what I understand, is to prepare for the afterlife. The way you put it, one screw up and your sent to Hell on the spot. But that's not how it is. Hell is permanent because Heaven is permanent. And the punishment is severe because the option of avoiding it is effortless. You don't have to earn salvation. It doesn't require good deeds or work. You just take it. Denying such a thing would be the epitome of foolishness, am I right? In my opinion, that's why Hell is permanent. I don't actually know if the Bible says that or not, so don't quote what I'm saying as fact, lol.

KH-mixerX

But hell is a punishment.

An unending punishment.

That is an act of hatred.

But it's your own act is what I'm trying to say. Hatred or not, you chose it. Don't blame God, lol.

Given God's supremacy, it is perfectly reasonable to place responsibility on him.

Why not wash people of sin after they die so they can get into heaven? Is that task impossible for a supreme being? If so, he is not supreme, thus does not hold omnipotence, thus he is not a true higher power.

Either that or God is capable of both love and hatred, thus making his love conditional.

[QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

Okay then. The way I see it, Hell was made as a punishment for Sin. Sining is wrong according to the Bible. And doing something wrong without atonement requires a punishment, no? That is why people are "sent" to Hell. And to take this line of discussion even further, the whole reason there even exists a Heaven and Hell, is because God wants people to choose him of their own free will. Otherwise it isn't true love. If there is only one choice, then the whole relationship is meaningless. Therefore a punishment was devised. AKA Hell.

darx55

the problem is,this decision is not made on free will..to choose god is to not think,is to not question.is to belive something irrational,to belive in something with no proof.if god gave us a brain,why would he want us to not use it,by choosing him?and if we did use our brain,and came to the conclusion that this god is not logical,and we didnt belive in him,then we would suffer from eternal damnation,by going to hell.so why did he make us smart?we did he gave us the ability to have logic,when if we use it,we're screwed?the answer to me is,there is no god.

I'll have to tell you what I just told Inconsistancy. Furthering this debate requires me having a pretty good grasp on science. And that is something I'm lacking unfortunately, lol. I've heard some pretty good arguments from people that might interest you though. If you like, I can PM them to you. Just let me know.

[QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

But hell is a punishment.

An unending punishment.

That is an act of hatred.

THE_DRUGGIE

But it's your own act is what I'm trying to say. Hatred or not, you chose it. Don't blame God, lol.

Given God's supremacy, it is perfectly reasonable to place responsibility on him.

Why not wash people of sin after they die so they can get into heaven? Is that task impossible for a supreme being? If so, he is not supreme, thus does not hold omnipotence, thus he is not a true higher power.

Either that or God is capable of both love and hatred, thus making his love conditional.

These are all points I've already addressed, lol. If he were to wash you of your sins after death, then he would also be washing you of your accountability. Like I said, God doesn't want somebody who didn't choose him themselves. He wants you to make that choice. Because that choice makes the relationship with him genuine. Without accountability, the choice is pointless and fake.

Why not wash people of sin after they die so they can get into heaven? Is that task impossible for a supreme being?

THE_DRUGGIE

If He does that then there's no point in being good while you're alive if you know you're going to heaven no matter what. Wouldn't be any point being the best person you can be if you know Hitler and bin Laden will be standing right next to you when you die.

I have a very early day tomorrow, so this is where I'll have to bow out. Nice debate though THE DRUGGIE. And we kept it cordial throughout. Which is a rarity when it comes to religiuos debates in OT, lol. G'night.

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

But it's your own act is what I'm trying to say. Hatred or not, you chose it. Don't blame God, lol.

KH-mixerX

Given God's supremacy, it is perfectly reasonable to place responsibility on him.

Why not wash people of sin after they die so they can get into heaven? Is that task impossible for a supreme being? If so, he is not supreme, thus does not hold omnipotence, thus he is not a true higher power.

Either that or God is capable of both love and hatred, thus making his love conditional.

These are all points I've already addressed, lol. If he were to wash you of your sins after death, then he would also be washing you of your accountability. Like I said, God doesn't want somebody who didn't choose him themselves. He wants you to make that choice. Because that choice makes the relationship with him genuine. Without accountability, the choice is pointless and fake.

Maybe he does cleanse everyone of sin in the end and allows them into heaven but he doesn't tell us to instill a sense of accountability.

In that case, God is a liar.

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

Why not wash people of sin after they die so they can get into heaven? Is that task impossible for a supreme being?

ad1x2

If He does that then there's no point in being good while you're alive if you know you're going to heaven no matter what. Wouldn't be any point being the best person you can be if you know Hitler and bin Laden will be standing right next to you when you die.

If God didn't punish sin, He wouldn't be just. And if he wasn't just his decisions would be 100% arbitrary. But since God does in fact love us He gives a way to recieve pardon for our rebellion against Him through Christ. Just my beliefs. Flame away.Penguinchow

he could still be just.eternal damnation isnt the only possible punishment,or is it?

[QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

Given God's supremacy, it is perfectly reasonable to place responsibility on him.

Why not wash people of sin after they die so they can get into heaven? Is that task impossible for a supreme being? If so, he is not supreme, thus does not hold omnipotence, thus he is not a true higher power.

Either that or God is capable of both love and hatred, thus making his love conditional.

THE_DRUGGIE

These are all points I've already addressed, lol. If he were to wash you of your sins after death, then he would also be washing you of your accountability. Like I said, God doesn't want somebody who didn't choose him themselves. He wants you to make that choice. Because that choice makes the relationship with him genuine. Without accountability, the choice is pointless and fake.

Maybe he does cleanse everyone of sin in the end and allows them into heaven but he doesn't tell us to instill a sense of accountability.

In that case, God is a liar.

Lol, that's certainly a possibility. There's no way to know for sure unless you've experienced death for yourself. And since none of us have, this is a pointless argument to begin. I would say that he most likely doesn't and that we are, in fact accountable for our actions.

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

These are all points I've already addressed, lol. If he were to wash you of your sins after death, then he would also be washing you of your accountability. Like I said, God doesn't want somebody who didn't choose him themselves. He wants you to make that choice. Because that choice makes the relationship with him genuine. Without accountability, the choice is pointless and fake.

KH-mixerX

Maybe he does cleanse everyone of sin in the end and allows them into heaven but he doesn't tell us to instill a sense of accountability.

In that case, God is a liar.

Lol, that's certainly a possibility. There's no way to know for sure unless you've experienced death for yourself. And since none of us have, this is a pointless argument to begin. I would say that he most likely doesn't and that we are, in fact accountable for our actions.

Then God is capable of hatred.

[QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

Okay then. The way I see it, Hell was made as a punishment for Sin. Sining is wrong according to the Bible. And doing something wrong without atonement requires a punishment, no? That is why people are "sent" to Hell. And to take this line of discussion even further, the whole reason there even exists a Heaven and Hell, is because God wants people to choose him of their own free will. Otherwise it isn't true love. If there is only one choice, then the whole relationship is meaningless. Therefore a punishment was devised. AKA Hell.

darx55

the problem is,this decision is not made on free will..to choose god is to not think,is to not question.is to belive something irrational,to belive in something with no proof.if god gave us a brain,why would he want us to not use it,by choosing him?and if we did use our brain,and came to the conclusion that this god is not logical,and we didnt belive in him,then we would suffer from eternal damnation,by going to hell.so why did he make us smart?we did he gave us the ability to have logic,when if we use it,we're screwed?the answer to me is,there is no god.

[QUOTE="ad1x2"]

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

Why not wash people of sin after they die so they can get into heaven? Is that task impossible for a supreme being?

darx55

If He does that then there's no point in being good while you're alive if you know you're going to heaven no matter what. Wouldn't be any point being the best person you can be if you know Hitler and bin Laden will be standing right next to you when you die.

That is a good question to bring up to a pastor/priest or other religious figure you trust. What I was taught when I went to the New Testament Christian Church ten years ago is no matter how good you were if you didn't get "Saved" by giving your life to Christ you're going to Hell. I don't go there anymore because they became a little too fanatical for me but I'm sure several denominations may have the same theory. Not all will.

[QUOTE="Penguinchow"]If God didn't punish sin, He wouldn't be just. And if he wasn't just his decisions would be 100% arbitrary. But since God does in fact love us He gives a way to recieve pardon for our rebellion against Him through Christ. Just my beliefs. Flame away.darx55

he could still be just.eternal damnation isnt the only possible punishment,or is it?

[QUOTE="darx55"]

[QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

Okay then. The way I see it, Hell was made as a punishment for Sin. Sining is wrong according to the Bible. And doing something wrong without atonement requires a punishment, no? That is why people are "sent" to Hell. And to take this line of discussion even further, the whole reason there even exists a Heaven and Hell, is because God wants people to choose him of their own free will. Otherwise it isn't true love. If there is only one choice, then the whole relationship is meaningless. Therefore a punishment was devised. AKA Hell.

PS2_ROCKS

the problem is,this decision is not made on free will..to choose god is to not think,is to not question.is to belive something irrational,to belive in something with no proof.if god gave us a brain,why would he want us to not use it,by choosing him?and if we did use our brain,and came to the conclusion that this god is not logical,and we didnt belive in him,then we would suffer from eternal damnation,by going to hell.so why did he make us smart?we did he gave us the ability to have logic,when if we use it,we're screwed?the answer to me is,there is no god.

[QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

Maybe he does cleanse everyone of sin in the end and allows them into heaven but he doesn't tell us to instill a sense of accountability.

In that case, God is a liar.

THE_DRUGGIE

Lol, that's certainly a possibility. There's no way to know for sure unless you've experienced death for yourself. And since none of us have, this is a pointless argument to begin. I would say that he most likely doesn't and that we are, in fact accountable for our actions.

Then God is capable of hatred.

I would imagine he hates the devil.

[QUOTE="darx55"][QUOTE="ad1x2"]

If He does that then there's no point in being good while you're alive if you know you're going to heaven no matter what. Wouldn't be any point being the best person you can be if you know Hitler and bin Laden will be standing right next to you when you die.

ad1x2

That is a good question to bring up to a pastor/priest or other religious figure you trust. What I was taught when I went to the New Testament Christian Church ten years ago is no matter how good you were if you didn't get "Saved" by giving your life to Christ you're going to Hell. I don't go there anymore because they became a little too fanatical for me but I'm sure several denominations may have the same theory. Not all will.

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

Lol, that's certainly a possibility. There's no way to know for sure unless you've experienced death for yourself. And since none of us have, this is a pointless argument to begin. I would say that he most likely doesn't and that we are, in fact accountable for our actions.

PS2_ROCKS

Then God is capable of hatred.

I would imagine he hates the devil.

True, true.

Also, he hates some people in the world since they don't devote themselves to him.

Or because of sin, the above statement being an example of sin.

According to the Bible (particularly Psalms 5:4 and 11:5), God hates sin and does not want to associate with it nor people who willingly partake in it.

Wolf-Man2006

"Whomever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknkowledge him before my Father in heaven."

People who willingly give in to temptation, and do not believe in Jesus as the savior will not be saved. People sin, that is why Jesus died. He died to save sinners. Meaning, just because you sin doesnt mean you cannot go to heaven. You have to try your best to resist temptation and truly believe in Jesus as your savior.

There's a serious misunderstanding of what hell is suppose to be. When we die we dont instantly go to hell or heaven... we die... we rot.... then we're supposed to brought back to life when Jesus returns and he then judges us. If we deserve it we are given eternal life and if not.... we go to hell which incidental means: grave... so basically eternal death. This comes from the bible... 'nuff said.simomate

There's a serious misunderstanding of what hell is suppose to be. When we die we dont instantly go to hell or heaven... we die... we rot.... then we're supposed to brought back to life when Jesus returns and he then judges us. If we deserve it we are given eternal life and if not.... we go to hell which incidental means: grave... so basically eternal death. This comes from the bible... 'nuff said.simomate

[QUOTE="simomate"]There's a serious misunderstanding of what hell is suppose to be. When we die we dont instantly go to hell or heaven... we die... we rot.... then we're supposed to brought back to life when Jesus returns and he then judges us. If we deserve it we are given eternal life and if not.... we go to hell which incidental means: grave... so basically eternal death. This comes from the bible... 'nuff said.Nuck81

Well, using the Bible as a reference, God doesn't send anybody to Hell. It says that Salvation is a choice. A free gift so to speak. You can either choose to accept it or not to accept it. The absence of that gift is a life without Christ. And a life without Christ leads to Hell. So God really doesn't send anybody to Hell. You go there yourself of your own volition.

KH-mixerX

This question has been asked many, many times before. You should probably realize that there's a very poor chance of you finding a logical justification for many of the implications of the Bible's claims, simply because the Bible's claims - like those of pretty much all religions - don't actually make a lot of sense if interpreted literally.

The most common answer that I have seen is that "people choose not to go to Heaven, so they go to Hell". The problem with this is that God created everything and knows everything, so he was well aware of and hence is directly responsible for the creation of Hell. Furthermore, he is humanity's creator, so any psychological urges or situations that may lead a human to lose their self-control and sin is basically his handiwork too. It gets even worse with atheists and people of different faiths; he knew that they would find any "evidence" of his existence to be insufficient for them to make the "correct" conclusion.

So, yes, once you analyze it, he's not really a benevolent being asking a simple question of "experience eternity in torment" and "experience eternity in peace and happiness". It's turns out that it goes more towards the "you will burn forever if you don't manage to overcome all of the psychological barriers that I gave you that prevent you from following my orders. Also you have to believe in my existence as defined by a book you may have never read by defying the culture that I made you grow up in, or by defying the logical faculties I inserted into your head which prevent you from thinking that I exist" kind of thing.

[QUOTE="simomate"]There's a serious misunderstanding of what hell is suppose to be. When we die we dont instantly go to hell or heaven... we die... we rot.... then we're supposed to brought back to life when Jesus returns and he then judges us. If we deserve it we are given eternal life and if not.... we go to hell which incidental means: grave... so basically eternal death. This comes from the bible... 'nuff said.Nuck81

The only reason anyone ends up in hell is because they rejected Jesus Christ and God's free offer of salvation through Him. The only way anyone ends up in heaven is because they received Christ as their Lord and Savior, accepting God's offer of salvation, repenting from their sins, and placing their trust in Him. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Jesus is, in fact, the only way to heaven. As said, salvation is free. You cannot work for it, earn it, buy it, or deserve it. You can only receive it. All the work was done by Jesus when He died on the cross for my sins and the sins of mankind. In the book of Isaiah, God extends the invitation to be saved when He says, "Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth."

As for the argument, "What about people who've never heard of Jesus?": The Bible, God's Word, tells us what happens in the Book of Romans, chapter 1, where it talks about the fact that what may be known about God is evident within people, for God has shown it to them. If a person responds to the natural knowledge of God present in all of us, God provides an opportunity for that person to hear the Gospel and repent and receive Christ.

This question has been asked many, many times before. You should probably realize that there's a very poor chance of you finding a logical justification for many of the implications of the Bible's claims, simply because the Bible's claims - like those of pretty much all religions - don't actually make a lot of sense if interpreted literally.

The most common answer that I have seen is that "people choose not to go to Heaven, so they go to Hell". The problem with this is that God created everything and knows everything, so he was well aware of and hence is directly responsible for the creation of Hell. Furthermore, he is humanity's creator, so any psychological urges or situations that may lead a human to lose their self-control and sin is basically his handiwork too. It gets even worse with atheists and people of different faiths; he knew that they would find any "evidence" of his existence to be insufficient for them to make the "correct" conclusion.

So, yes, once you analyze it, he's not really a benevolent being asking a simple question of "experience eternity in torment" and "experience eternity in peace and happiness". It's turns out that it goes more towards the "you will burn forever if you don't manage to overcome all of the psychological barriers that I gave you that prevent you from following my orders. Also you have to believe in my existence as defined by a book you may have never read by defying the culture that I made you grow up in, or by defying the logical faculties I inserted into your head which prevent you from thinking that I exist" kind of thing.

Barbariser

But if I choose the theory that God cannot destroy Satan and Satan is the root of all evil/sin, then what does God do about the people he loves so much? He gives them a choice. Since people are born into sin, God cannot simply take us as we are. We must cleanse ourselves by accepting him in which case the devil can no longer take us.

The only reason anyone ends up in hell is because they rejected Jesus Christ and God's free offer of salvation through Him. The only way anyone ends up in heaven is because they received Christ as their Lord and Savior, accepting God's offer of salvation, repenting from their sins, and placing their trust in Him. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Jesus is, in fact, the only way to heaven. As said, salvation is free. You cannot work for it, earn it, buy it, or deserve it. You can only receive it. All the work was done by Jesus when He died on the cross for my sins and the sins of mankind. In the book of Isaiah, God extends the invitation to be saved when He says, "Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth."

As for the argument, "What about people who've never heard of Jesus?": The Bible, God's Word, tells us what happens in the Book of Romans, chapter 1, where it talks about the fact that what may be known about God is evident within people, for God has shown it to them. If a person responds to the natural knowledge of God present in all of us, God provides an opportunity for that person to hear the Gospel and repent and receive Christ.

MathMattS

There is no god and there is no hell. Both are just superstitions.

Why would you want there to be a god like the Christian god anyway? He's basically a sadistic sociopath who enjoys making people suffer.

The only reason anyone ends up in hell is because they rejected Jesus Christ and God's free offer of salvation through Him. The only way anyone ends up in heaven is because they received Christ as their Lord and Savior, accepting God's offer of salvation, repenting from their sins, and placing their trust in Him. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Jesus is, in fact, the only way to heaven. As said, salvation is free. You cannot work for it, earn it, buy it, or deserve it. You can only receive it. All the work was done by Jesus when He died on the cross for my sins and the sins of mankind. In the book of Isaiah, God extends the invitation to be saved when He says, "Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth."

As for the argument, "What about people who've never heard of Jesus?": The Bible, God's Word, tells us what happens in the Book of Romans, chapter 1, where it talks about the fact that what may be known about God is evident within people, for God has shown it to them. If a person responds to the natural knowledge of God present in all of us, God provides an opportunity for that person to hear the Gospel and repent and receive Christ.

MathMattS

[QUOTE="Barbariser"]

This question has been asked many, many times before. You should probably realize that there's a very poor chance of you finding a logical justification for many of the implications of the Bible's claims, simply because the Bible's claims - like those of pretty much all religions - don't actually make a lot of sense if interpreted literally.

The most common answer that I have seen is that "people choose not to go to Heaven, so they go to Hell". The problem with this is that God created everything and knows everything, so he was well aware of and hence is directly responsible for the creation of Hell. Furthermore, he is humanity's creator, so any psychological urges or situations that may lead a human to lose their self-control and sin is basically his handiwork too. It gets even worse with atheists and people of different faiths; he knew that they would find any "evidence" of his existence to be insufficient for them to make the "correct" conclusion.

So, yes, once you analyze it, he's not really a benevolent being asking a simple question of "experience eternity in torment" and "experience eternity in peace and happiness". It's turns out that it goes more towards the "you will burn forever if you don't manage to overcome all of the psychological barriers that I gave you that prevent you from following my orders. Also you have to believe in my existence as defined by a book you may have never read by defying the culture that I made you grow up in, or by defying the logical faculties I inserted into your head which prevent you from thinking that I exist" kind of thing.

PS2_ROCKS

But if I choose the theory that God cannot destroy Satan and Satan is the root of all evil/sin, then what does God do about the people he loves so much? He gives them a choice. Since people are born into sin, God cannot simply take us as we are. We must cleanse ourselves by accepting him in which case the devil can no longer take us.

if god is all knowing he did willingly created satan, he did it even knowing what would happen, thus god is still the root of all evil

The thing is, Satan is the root of all evil. Somehow he managed to get himself banished from heaven along with a large number of angels. God did not willingly create Satan. If he could have prevented it, I think he would have. Adam and Eve would have never been tempted and the world would be in fact perfect as God intended. Now there's the speculation. How did Satan become Satan? To think God would willingly create the devil seems a little...off. Yet we see him as all powerful which makes us think he should have been able to prevent it. Clearly there is something we don't understand here.

But if I choose the theory that God cannot destroy Satan and Satan is the root of all evil/sin, then what does God do about the people he loves so much? He gives them a choice. Since people are born into sin, God cannot simply take us as we are. We must cleanse ourselves by accepting him in which case the devil can no longer take us.

PS2_ROCKS

Doesn't work. Unless I'm fudging my memory, God is completely omniscient, so he should have been well aware of Satan's betrayal before it even happened (however I don't think this is the case in the actual passage, so there's another disrepancy). Furthermore, by choosing the theory that God can't kill Satan, you are saying that God is either unable or unwilling to destroy him despite God being God and Satan being a pissy little rogue angel, and, as you claim, God intended for the world to be perfect.

In any case, there is still the problem that God designed the world in such a way that only like 30% of people actually believe in him even after two millennia of evangelism and European cultural exports. The problem is that he's all powerful, so all he has to do is flip a switch in everyone's minds that basically makes us aware of his existence. It's rather clear that the current human knowledge base doesn't have enough evidence for the Bible to convince EVERYBODY, and that his human agents aren't effective enough to do that either. So why did he choose such inefficient ways of getting people to "accept" him?

This so called loving god is one of jealousy and insecurity. Always telling us not to believe in other gods and never take his name in vain. God's wishes are constantly changing and so is religion. They always pick and choose what they want to be true.

If you believe in God you HAVE to believe in Noah's Ark, Adam and Eve and a talking snake and Moses parting the sea. You do not fully believe in god if you don't truly believe these things. And to me its more beautiful to think that the Earth was an acident and things evolved over billions of years of complex genetic changes. Its a lot more beautiful rather than thinking some thing created everything with some design in mind

God does not send people to hell. People choose to go hell. God gives sinners many many chances to stop there sinning ways. But if you continue to live in a sinful life than it's your choice not God's. The punshiment for sin is death. And hell is eternal death.

Krazykid3333

[QUOTE="Krazykid3333"]

God does not send people to hell. People choose to go hell. God gives sinners many many chances to stop there sinning ways. But if you continue to live in a sinful life than it's your choice not God's. The punshiment for sin is death. And hell is eternal death.

dsmccracken

Responsibility for one's actions are the individual's.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Responsibility for one's actions are the individual's.dsmccracken

What about the actions of a government to ruin their own people and country?

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="Krazykid3333"]

God does not send people to hell. People choose to go hell. God gives sinners many many chances to stop there sinning ways. But if you continue to live in a sinful life than it's your choice not God's. The punshiment for sin is death. And hell is eternal death.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Responsibility for one's actions are the individual's.dsmccracken

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Responsibility for one's actions are the individual's.seanmcloughlin

What about the actions of a government to ruin their own people and country?

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Responsibility for one's actions are the individual's.LJS9502_basic